Weird that we know very little beyond Drukhari release.
Sisters/Wych box set but no news of next few codexes. 9th gonna be a slow burn.

Well the pandemic surely also caused problems and delays for GW, on top of that there is brexit, which also really doesn't help to speed things up.

My guess is, that we are going to see the sisters codex shortly after the dark eldar codex, since both armies feature on the next box set. It would make sense imo, because they recently revealed 2 new units for sisters.

After that it's anybodys guess. I am purely guessing here, but I think the mechanicus and ork codex are not too far away, because they revealed a new skitarii character and some new ork model a few months ago. As far as I recall we don't have any other teased models for any other armies right now, so my guess is for orks and admech.

Edit: Correction, GW just teased a new skitarii character and ork model a few months ago, they haven't revealed them yet as far as I know. My point being that we don't have any such teases for other 40k armies, so those two might be coming soon?

Probably SoB next, and Orks & AdMech have both been teased.

The yet to be released Warzone Charadon has rules for Death Guard, Drukhari, Adeptus Mechanicus, and Imperial Knights. My money is on AM and IK being the next two codexes.

AoS is dominating at present. There's Lumineth getting a second wave; Vampires getting a whole new army (a way off yet) and Warhammer Quest getting a huge AoS release. Ontop of that AoS is doing campaign books with 2 more coming (Lumineth are being updated with the next and Belkor is in the next).


Basically after a big 40K 2020 end there's a big AoS 2021 start. IT just feels wrong because Corona slowed everything up for 2020 in a big way and 2021 is still reeling from those same impacts.

Wait...if we get Sister's codex...then 9th edition is already done and 10th coming? Isn't that the pattern...

edwardmyst wrote:
Wait...if we get Sister's codex...then 9th edition is already done and 10th coming? Isn't that the pattern...

There's no pattern because the samole size of Sisters codexes is so low

 Overread wrote:
AoS is dominating at present. There's Lumineth getting a second wave; Vampires getting a whole new army (a way off yet) and Warhammer Quest getting a huge AoS release. Ontop of that AoS is doing campaign books with 2 more coming (Lumineth are being updated with the next and Belkor is in the next).


Basically after a big 40K 2020 end there's a big AoS 2021 start. IT just feels wrong because Corona slowed everything up for 2020 in a big way and 2021 is still reeling from those same impacts.

The problem with dedicating a bunch of time to AoS is it makes Xenos players even more disgruntled.
Going from rapid fire Space Marine releases to practically nothing once they are done is *sigh*, expected but extremely dissapointed.

And its not like they can't do both at the same time. I seem to remember AoS and 40k having a lot of releases back to back early on during 8th. You would have a major 40k release every 2 weeks and AoS releases on the other weeks.

Donno if I buy the Corona excuse either, it didn't seem to slow down Marine releases last year?
It is hard to deny the feeling of "marines are done, feth it lets chill".

 Insectum7 wrote:

edwardmyst wrote:
Wait...if we get Sister's codex...then 9th edition is already done and 10th coming? Isn't that the pattern...

There's no pattern because the samole size of Sisters codexes is so low

4 or 5.

I mean I'm sympathetic to Xenos players, but Age of Sigmar is a full game that should get development time as well.

They also go through slower release periods, I assume to allow people to "catch up". It's probably a good thing but if you have a long awaited release it's probably frustrating and will not help how people feel about marines right now.

I'd have thought they could probably put out 40k and AoS releases in the same week but they clearly feel differently and they have the data.

 Da Boss wrote:
I mean I'm sympathetic to Xenos players, but Age of Sigmar is a full game that should get development time as well.

It's tempted me back away from 40k as my main game with all new, all sparkling high elves release. I may get a Nurgle Daemon army (3x start collecting boxes, Great Unclean One) to play in both. I'm certainly more keen to see AoS releases than 40k right now and yes that is due to marine overload largely. They've just discovered that everyone loves elves, release Craftworlds! And more Dark Eldar!

Also even "poorly" updated armies in 40K like Eldar have big model ranges now. AoS has a LOT of armies that have tiny ranges. Lumineth getting a big update is a must have; meanwhile the new Vampire force is basically giving Vampires/Legions of Nagash the full update that many want Eldar to have.

AoS, both because of new armies and the way fantasy was treated prior to its demise, has a lot of armies in need of updates. Skaven still have metals and generation 1 plastics etc...

Even if you want new models for Eldar there's still a lot you can do with them. Meanwhile armies like Fyreslayers are often spamming the same unit to reach 2K because they don't have all that much diversity within their ranks.

 Overread wrote:
Also even "poorly" updated armies in 40K like Eldar have big model ranges now. AoS has a LOT of armies that have tiny ranges. Lumineth getting a big update is a must have; meanwhile the new Vampire force is basically giving Vampires/Legions of Nagash the full update that many want Eldar to have.

AoS, both because of new armies and the way fantasy was treated prior to its demise, has a lot of armies in need of updates. Skaven still have metals and generation 1 plastics etc...

I assure you that there are no gen 1 plastic Skaven in the line. There aren't any G2 either.
THESE are a pair G1 plastic Skaven (standing in front of 40k 2e gretchin. I bought mine in the summer of '89.

Oh I thought the Rat Ogre set was G1 or at least very early plastics along with things like the night runners

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Skaven-Rat-Ogres-and-Giant-Rats

 Da Boss wrote:
I mean I'm sympathetic to Xenos players, but Age of Sigmar is a full game that should get development time as well.

Why can't we have both?

 Overread wrote:
Oh I thought the Rat Ogre set was G1 or at least very early plastics along with things like the night runners

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Skaven-Rat-Ogres-and-Giant-Rats

Actually, no. Those are surprisingly late skaven plastics. Rat ogres were metal (and better models than that garbage) for a long time.


---
Anyway. Delays have really warped the release schedule.
Sisters are getting their Lt in the Dark Elf Versus Sisters box, which should be sometime in the next month or so. They may also get another codex (but maybe not).

The warzone book definitely has 'more rules' for Ad Mech and IK (as well as dark eldar and death guard) so those are almost certainly in the 'next wave' of 40k releases. Ad Mech also has a partial model preview.

Orks have a partially previewed model outstanding, so they're likely on the end of the shortlist.

I'm hoping that we see chaos and the other Marines that haven't gotten their second wound yet. While I would hate that this would mean yet more marine releases, getting that second wound is kind of a big deal since they will not just do it in an errata.

I mean, it's COVID. GW even said COVID was going to slow down their releases. What'dya gonna do?

Heck we are still on the once every 2 weeks for orders system. GW just can't speed up at present and you can expect that to remain the state until the UK can remove covid safe work practice from the workplace.

Audustum wrote:
I mean, it's COVID. GW even said COVID was going to slow down their releases. What'dya gonna do?

Personally? Just get on with playing games, as best as local conditions allow, with the vast inventory of stuff (40k & otherwise) I've already got.
And when not gaming I've got some building to do & plenty to paint.
Eventually when new stuff arrives? Pick it up if it's of interest, ignore it if not.

ccs wrote:

Audustum wrote:
I mean, it's COVID. GW even said COVID was going to slow down their releases. What'dya gonna do?

Personally? Just get on with playing games, as best as local conditions allow, with the vast inventory of stuff (40k & otherwise) I've already got.
And when not gaming I've got some building to do & plenty to paint.
Eventually when new stuff arrives? Pick it up if it's of interest, ignore it if not.

I feel about similar, though I've been leaning on TTS.

There will be another tease end of this month or next. They're about quarterly now.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
There will be another tease end of this month or next. They're about quarterly now.

They are really unpredictable right now. Both in terms of when they appear and how much GW shows. Since the major hobby events aren't really happening and since GW's production and shipping (and basically everything) is hampered right now. I'd not expect any kind of reliable schedule. If we get them great, if we don't we aren't missing anything .GW is likely having to play quite a few things on the fly and see how things settle in terms of how well they are able to keep up production and shipping as well as a whole host of other things.

The problem is that despite the fact GW has promised us a 40K release once every month, and Sigmar seems to be getting something similar, Dark Angels came out the first weekend of February while Drukhari wont be out until the last weekend of March. That may be consecutive months but it's almost 2 months of actual time between the releases, and beyond that we have no idea whats coming next, GW's roadmap for releases has already reached it's end and they are content to leave us without any information.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
There will be another tease end of this month or next. They're about quarterly now.

But what kind of teaser? Some sort of codex release road map would be nice. Wouldn't even need dates, just let us know what's coming up next.

From 'The Sunday Preview – News From the Front' on Warhammer Community:

There are loads more to come in 2021 – of that you can be sure – and our goal is to make sure that hobbyists around the world can get their hands on the latest Warhammer within a similar timeframe. Global events certainly make this challenging right now, but by moving the release dates of certain products in our schedule, we can make it more likely that everyone can enjoy the latest models, books, and games together.

I read that as they're not sure what they're release schedule is going to be as it's still in flux.

Hopefully CSM arrive by the end of the year, although I won't get my hopes up

Thats the thing, they need to keep community interest or that interest will drift to other systems/games.
By all means, state that things are super backed up but show us some teasers for the next 6 months. Couple of codex covers, some more models....you have to keep the community talking. Nothing worse than silence.

I believe a while back there were images of AdMech reboxes (with the 'new' boxart style), so I'd assume AdMech are next up.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
There will be another tease end of this month or next. They're about quarterly now.

But what kind of teaser? Some sort of codex release road map would be nice. Wouldn't even need dates, just let us know what's coming up next.

We've had those in the past. We just feel a little forlorn, because AoS abd Warhammer Quest is taking some spotlight ( which is fair, I think ). I recall being really Fantasy centric ages ago and being aggravated at 40K releases ( but they were sooo much farther apart back then ).

No idea where w going but the utter lack of any DE info does not bode well at all.. I think we can sort of all see it now.

The March 20 release will be interesting. If DE get anything other than Lelith, who will be locked into the Piety and Pain box, it'll drop that weekend along with the Dex and box.

But if DE isn't getting anything else, that's a sparse release; they've got to pair it with something.

It could be the Heavy Intercessors box. It could be the Book of Rust Campaign book; it could be the Charadon Crusade Mission pack. The Palatine is locked to Piety and pain just like Lelith, so it won't be her... But we have seen the Paragon Warsuit, so that's another possibility.

Because of Piety and Pain, I'd suspect April for the Sisters dex, and if the Paragon doesn't come with Piety and Pain, she'll drop with the dex instead.

As mentioned, Admech and Orks both have models coming that we've seen in previews and both feature in the Book of Rust and the Charadon Crusade Mission Pack. Kights might have a model release timed with Admech too, as any new Knight could appear in both dexes, and Knights are also part of the Charadon stuff.

GW has actually given us a vague roadmap... It's just one you have to put together from a bunch of clues that have been spread over months. I too prefer more direct marketing, but as others have said, the Covid + Brexit double whammy has really hit us in the hobby.

The good news is that once the Brexit and Covid kinks are worked out, there will be an economic recovery boom that will make the 1920's look like.... Well, the 1920's.

GW will definitely be looking to be a part of that boom.

We are going to have to wait and see. 9th edition released at really unfortunate timing. Indomitus was delayed by two months due to lockdown which affected every 40k release thereafter. Normally you could make some adjustments in release schedule but all new edition hype was built on Indomitus. Now we have brexit with 2D6 weeks delivery time and it's very difficult to enjoy new releases in time. I am going to visit my FLGS tomorrow to see if they have finally received their Death Guard and Dark Angels orders...

The consistent rumour is that because of Covid, Codex releases with substantial model releases have been moved around and pushed back. This is partly to ease the strain on production but also GW not wanting to potentially hurt sales of new models in their biggest game.

With that Ork collectible coin floating around right now and the numerous Orkish rumour engines we've had, its likely Orks were supposed to be out sooner but have been majorly delayed.

Regardless of what comes out, AoS and 40k don't share release days and due to Covid effecting releases gw has moved to a big release every two weeks, instead of every week, so we are going to see the release schedule we are used to slowed by half. It's already been evident in February, with some filler release weeks between 40k/AoS release weeks.

I'm pretty sure admech will be the next book following Sisters, due to the factions in the Campaign book they announced months ago.

After that, I just hope it's releases for my armies

hot take: old models don't matter. Many of the sculpts are timeless and great representations of the army.

old rules DO matter, because they make armies abject failures.

GW sales have performed quite well during the pandemic. They need to release the codex for 9th edition 40k if they want a competitive and balanced game (which is of course a low priority for them).

The kill team pariah nexus box is the smoking gun in all of this.

 Ghaz wrote:
From 'The Sunday Preview – News From the Front' on Warhammer Community:

There are loads more to come in 2021 – of that you can be sure – and our goal is to make sure that hobbyists around the world can get their hands on the latest Warhammer within a similar timeframe. Global events certainly make this challenging right now, but by moving the release dates of certain products in our schedule, we can make it more likely that everyone can enjoy the latest models, books, and games together.

I read that as they're not sure what they're release schedule is going to be as it's still in flux.

I understand the confusion. For me I read as though their trying to plan for every scenario or the worst possible scenario in which easing Lockdown backfires and infection rates spike up again, and the potential for another lockdown.

Well, todays Sunday preview has revealed that tomorrow's "New Model Monday" will be Belakor. Cool and all- I like Belakor, but that leaves only one more week for a DE surprise; it was always a longshot... But now it's a longer shot.

Cursed City in the previews again- maybe we get a release date on that.

And the Book of Rust, which pretty much confirms it is the thing that will preorder with DE to round out the release.

So March 20, I expect the DE dex, the DE Combat Patrol set, Piety and Pain, the Book of rust, and that's it.

Sisters Dex in April with the Paragon Warsuit and the Charadon Crusade Mission Pack.

Heavy Intercessor solo box between the two.

I'm now baffled by the idea that War Zone Chacha is going to beat out the codexes of half the factions that are in it. (It specifically has 'new rules' for DG, Dark Eldar, Ad Mech and Imp. Knights per its first and only preview)

Those'll be fun FAQs.

So March 20, I expect the DE dex, the DE Combat Patrol set, Piety and Pain, the Book of rust, and that's it.

I expect no more than half of that. And it might be another week. At some point the lizard underworlds team needs to happen too.

Voss wrote:
I'm now baffled by the idea that War Zone Chacha is going to beat out the codexes of half the factions that are in it. (It specifically has 'new rules' for DG, Dark Eldar, Ad Mech and Imp. Knights per its first and only preview)

Campaign rules. Nothing that really affects pickup/tournament games.

I understand everything is fluid at the moment with covid and I suppose plans can change on a whim as part of that, however... We didn't have a single 40k codex in February, and it looks like we aren't getting another until at least the end half of March now... I suppose all that money they have spent on AoS and the need to start recouping those costs are a priority that is affecting 40k as I was sure they would have maintained their one codex a month at least schedule, guess I was very wrong about that assumption.

I know it wouldn't be popular with many but lumineth really could have been kicked into the turf for 12 months and they should have focussed on getting their premier system up to date in my opinion.

Counter argument to that I suppose is, if they figure there aren't many games being played right now, then rules aren't a priority.

PenitentJake wrote:
Well, todays Sunday preview has revealed that tomorrow's "New Model Monday" will be Belakor. Cool and all- I like Belakor, but that leaves only one more week for a DE surprise; it was always a longshot... But now it's a longer shot.

Dark Eldar will get bugger-all because no one on the GW design team gives the slightest crap about them.

They're NPC faction #68351. Probably not worthy of fighting Marines but might be just about sufficient for Sisters of Battle to kill.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:
I'm now baffled by the idea that War Zone Chacha is going to beat out the codexes of half the factions that are in it. (It specifically has 'new rules' for DG, Dark Eldar, Ad Mech and Imp. Knights per its first and only preview)

Campaign rules. Nothing that really affects pickup/tournament games.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/21/warhammer-preview-online-decadence-decay/
Not from the context:

There’s more than just the background of an epic war zone in here, the book also includes new rules for:

Death Guard
Adeptus Mechanicus
Imperial Knights
Drukhari
The warriors of Commorragh are keen to take advantage of the chaos and confusion caused by Typhus’ invasion. Alongside these codex supplements are rules for playing through the Charadon campaign yourself.

Codex supplements AND campaign rules.

Voss wrote:

Codex supplements AND campaign rules.

Hopefully these are a preview for the Codex, and not just one off soon to be outdated campaign only supplements.

I wonder also whether this is a sign of where G W is going with releasing War Zones that might have more campaign rules. Maybe what they are going for is Crusade rules for each campaign?

I thought the supplement rules were only going to be crusade rules... I thought I read that somewhere back when 9th edition was launching.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
We didn't have a single 40k codex in February,

Your not counting DA for some reason?

Iracundus wrote:

Voss wrote:
Alongside these codex supplements are rules for playing through the Charadon campaign yourself.

Codex supplements AND campaign rules.

Hopefully these are a preview for the Codex, and not just one off soon to be outdated campaign only supplements.

Well, since 2 of 4 listed either just had a codex (death guard), or have one coming 'Soon' (tm) [Dark Eldar], obviously not.

ccs wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
We didn't have a single 40k codex in February,

Your not counting DA for some reason?

I mean, he's technically right - their book was a Codex Supplement, not a Codex.

Voss wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

Voss wrote:
Alongside these codex supplements are rules for playing through the Charadon campaign yourself.

Codex supplements AND campaign rules.

Hopefully these are a preview for the Codex, and not just one off soon to be outdated campaign only supplements.

Well, since 2 of 4 listed either just had a codex (death guard), or have one coming 'Soon' (tm) [Dark Eldar], obviously not.

Well obviously not a preview for the Death Guard, but it could still be a preview of the Dark Eldar.

There were two in February.

Daughters of Khaine and Slaanesh, the latter of which came with a good chunk of new models as well.

On top of them probably not being at full capacity due to lockdowns, their shipping courrier is experiencing huge delays, probably due to Brexit and the new way stuff has to go through customs. February releases have hardly reached customers yet and so I guess they are taking that into account, shifting everything a bit further down the year while creating stocks closer to their customers, so when they release products they are actually available and not transiting in courrier for weeks.
So I guess we aren't going very far until either they sort it out with temporary warehouse or which ever company manages their shipping sort it out itself.

 Dysartes wrote:

ccs wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
We didn't have a single 40k codex in February,

Your not counting DA for some reason?

I mean, he's technically right - their book was a Codex Supplement, not a Codex.

Semantics.

For all of you who seem to think the preorder date for the DE dex hasn't been set, it has. At the tag end of the phone-in fluff article about ways to die in Commorragh, the release date was formally announced: it's March 20th.

Warcom has made some egregious mistakes regarding rules and box contents, but I don't think they've flubbed a release date yet. But barring a Warcom error, we can all stop wringing our hands and saying it might be later.

As for the other parts of my speculation... well, you got me there. It IS speculation. Nothing has SAID officially that Piety and Pain is dropping with the dex; there's a chance it won't. I'd say it's a slim chance, but it's there.

The Book of Rust might not drop with it either; weird that they'd be previewing this week if it didn't... But again, possible.

As for Sisters: despite their inclusion in Piety and Pain, I'm beginning to think we won't see their dex until later; I think folks make a pretty reasonable argument that Admech and/or Knights will be next due to Charadon. Sisters aren't in the Book of Rust; their piece of the campaign will likely be in bespoke engagements with the DE, as depicted in Piety and Pain. Like Blood of the Phoenix or Tooth and Claw, it will include a little campaign booklet.

And speaking of Charadon, let me clear something else up: the Book of Rust is a campaign book that contains rules, missions and lore. Its closest analogue is Vigilus; infact, the two are so similar, I wouldn't be surprised if Charadon ends up being a two parter like Vigilus was.

In addition to the Book of Rust, they are also releasing another coil-bound Mission Pack specifically for Crusade.; its closest analogue is Beyond the Veil.

It stands to reason that the Mission Pack may come later in the release cycle than the campaign book- after all, a Crusade Mission Pack is going to work best for a faction that has bespoke Crusade content to support it.

Iracundus wrote:

Voss wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

Voss wrote:
Alongside these codex supplements are rules for playing through the Charadon campaign yourself.

Codex supplements AND campaign rules.

Hopefully these are a preview for the Codex, and not just one off soon to be outdated campaign only supplements.

Well, since 2 of 4 listed either just had a codex (death guard), or have one coming 'Soon' (tm) [Dark Eldar], obviously not.

Well obviously not a preview for the Death Guard, but it could still be a preview of the Dark Eldar.

It wasn't written that way. These books were finalized months ago- its only printing and shipping that have been delayed.
DG was originally slated for December and Dark Eldar were January or maybe very early February before the delays hit.
The books themselves were likely finished back around September/October or so at the latest.


-----

PenitentJake wrote:And speaking of Charadon, let me clear something else up: the Book of Rust is a campaign book that contains rules, missions and lore. Its closest analogue is Vigilus; infact, the two are so similar, I wouldn't be surprised if Charadon ends up being a two parter like Vigilus was.

At least a two parter. 'Book of Rust' is explicitly Book 1 of the Warzone.

For all of you who seem to think the preorder date for the DE dex hasn't been set, it has. At the tag end of the phone-in fluff article about ways to die in Commorragh, the release date was formally announced: it's March 20th.

Huh. So it is. Glad they made such an effort to advertise that.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:
I'm now baffled by the idea that War Zone Chacha is going to beat out the codexes of half the factions that are in it. (It specifically has 'new rules' for DG, Dark Eldar, Ad Mech and Imp. Knights per its first and only preview)

Campaign rules. Nothing that really affects pickup/tournament games.

Not if it's analogous to Vigilus, as Penitant Jake theorizes. Remember, Vigilus gave us specialist detachments, as well as a full suite of strategems, warlord traits, and relics for Abigail and His Merry Band of Renegades.

Until we see previews for it, we won't have a solid idea either way. All speculation is equally valid - and invalid - at this point.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:
I'm now baffled by the idea that War Zone Chacha is going to beat out the codexes of half the factions that are in it. (It specifically has 'new rules' for DG, Dark Eldar, Ad Mech and Imp. Knights per its first and only preview)

Campaign rules. Nothing that really affects pickup/tournament games.

Not if it's analogous to Vigilus, as Penitant Jake theorizes. Remember, Vigilus gave us specialist detachments, as well as a full suite of strategems, warlord traits, and relics for Abigail and His Merry Band of Renegades.

I don't think GW has ever released a campaign book/set that didn't have rules that could be used in general, Vigilus and Psychic Awkening being the most recent examples.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dysartes wrote:
Until we see previews for it, we won't have a solid idea either way. All speculation is equally valid - and invalid - at this point.

No, all speculation isn't valid. GW has already shown that when they want a book to be Crusade only they will label it as such, at this point we have zero reason to think that there wont be matched play rules in War Zone Charadon.

 Gregor Samsa wrote:
hot take: old models don't matter. Many of the sculpts are timeless and great representations of the army.

old rules DO matter, because they make armies abject failures.

This! I've seen so many terrible sculpts over the years sell like hot cakes due to having broken rules (e.g. the old beasts of nurgle, did someones nephew on work placement sculpt them or something?), and some really gorgeous sculpts barely move due to being unplayable (e.g. WFB 6th ed Phoenix Guard). Get the rules right and the kits will sell.

The reason the wood elf army sold so poorly post 6th edition was purely down to rules, they were every players favourite army they wanted to have. In 8th ed when they finally got a good rules update all the old beautiful 6th ed models sold out immediately for about 3 months.

Will GW ever really design better Eldar vehicles than the now ancient (2nd ed iirc) Falcon chassis (forgeworld mk 2 was a lovely improvement, but not enought to warrant a new kit)? The hemlock was the last attempt at a new Eldar vehicle iirc and honestly it's a poor attempt in comparison to what were the existing forgeworld flyers (nightwing, phoenix, vampire), basically just looks like a slightly eldar version of a Eurofighter. I'm fine with them sticking with the Falcon for another 25 years tbh, it's gorgeous.

Similarly I remember thunderfire cannons being everywhere for a time, as if they are really every space marine players favourite model lol.

 Dysartes wrote:
Until we see previews for it, we won't have a solid idea either way. All speculation is equally valid - and invalid - at this point.

Considering the one specific piece of information specifically says it has both rules (for 4 factions) AND campaign rules... no, it isn't. It has 'codex supplement' rules, because that's what they explicitly said.

'All speculation is valid' is just a baffling concept. A simple thought exercise can easily disprove it. Valid and invalid is just vapid.

I do wonder if the contents of the Imperium magazine might be a hint with armies like sisters, admech, necrons and marines forming a lot of the 2021 releases. Would be good marketing to focus on the factions that new players will have picked up.

ccs wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
We didn't have a single 40k codex in February,

Your not counting DA for some reason?

Because I thought it released in January, that was when the pre-order was

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

ccs wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
We didn't have a single 40k codex in February,

Your not counting DA for some reason?

Because I thought it released in January, that was when the pre-order was

Didn't the Ork codex go into pre-order on the last week of Orktober?
By that logic and precedence DA came out in January, not February.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

ccs wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
We didn't have a single 40k codex in February,

Your not counting DA for some reason?

Because I thought it released in January, that was when the pre-order was

Pre-order =/= release date. You pre-order it so that it can be shipped in time to arrive in your mail box on release day.

 Ordana wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

ccs wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
We didn't have a single 40k codex in February,

Your not counting DA for some reason?

Because I thought it released in January, that was when the pre-order was

Didn't the Ork codex go into pre-order on the last week of Orktober?
By that logic and precedence DA came out in January, not February.

That was gw logic then. They changed logic around october 2020.

admech looks more and more likely to be next one.

Voss wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Until we see previews for it, we won't have a solid idea either way. All speculation is equally valid - and invalid - at this point.

Considering the one specific piece of information specifically says it has both rules (for 4 factions) AND campaign rules... no, it isn't. It has 'codex supplement' rules, because that's what they explicitly said.

'All speculation is valid' is just a baffling concept. A simple thought exercise can easily disprove it. Valid and invalid is just vapid.

I could certainly see it containing Specialist Detachments, like Vigilus did, and Specialist detachments are specifically not allowed in Grand Tournament Matched Play, so gives players a way to play armies themed to the campaign, but not influence tournaments.

Today's preview of Piety and Pain confirms a March 20 preorder for the set, so we now know for sure it's dropping with the DE dex.

Hopefully the Charadon preview confirms its release date too. And I'm hoping they also throw in a line or two about the Mission Pack book; I suspect it will be dropped with the Admech Dex in April, which will put almost all the Charadon Cards in play (everything except the knight dex, though there likely will be some knights in the Admech book.

With today’s launch of an awesome new belakor model I guess chaos demons are next???

Not necessarily - he's being released as part of an AOS event (Broken Realms), with appropriate detailing to crop up in 40k.

I'll not be surprised to see a new datasheet should Chapter Approved roll around, though, like we have done with the Slaanesh stuff since that got its AOS wave.

It is getting to the point where Daemons needs an update just to roll all the releases into the book, but the same is true of the AdMech.

 jaredb wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Until we see previews for it, we won't have a solid idea either way. All speculation is equally valid - and invalid - at this point.

Considering the one specific piece of information specifically says it has both rules (for 4 factions) AND campaign rules... no, it isn't. It has 'codex supplement' rules, because that's what they explicitly said.

'All speculation is valid' is just a baffling concept. A simple thought exercise can easily disprove it. Valid and invalid is just vapid.

I could certainly see it containing Specialist Detachments, like Vigilus did, and Specialist detachments are specifically not allowed in Grand Tournament Matched Play, so gives players a way to play armies themed to the campaign, but not influence tournaments.

I'd be very surprised if they did that, specialist detachments seems to be a rather short lived idea dropped after Vigilus.

The actual releases are getting held up by supply issues, and GW has decided just to make people wait rather than giving us a roadmap, because their marketing people apparently firmly believe they sell more when they don't give roadmaps than when they do.

As much as I often dislike the choices those people make, they probably have a better bead on what will make them more money than I do, and I don't kid myself that they have any care beyond that question.

Honestly right now road maps are likely very hard for GW to put together when the situation nationally and globally is making big changes month to month and sometimes week to week. Heck last year even their per quarter annual roadmap for Necromunda failed to work.

I would love an overall 3 month or so detailed roadmap from GW; but right now I can appreciate that such a document might be very hard for them to put together and be meaningful. Heck 3 months ago they were aiming to now be heading back into 1 release a week.

I think it's more just a case of GW wanting to get back to the normal release schedule as fast as possible, but not knowing when they will be able to do it.

As others have said, they could give us a release order without dates... But that depends on how much they're adjusting the release schedule; if it's merely standard delays to the regular releases, the dateless doc could work.

But they may also have larger adaptations to the release schedule for the sake of grouping product releases- and if that's the case, without having a finite end time for the necessity of adaptations, it would be far more difficult to lay out a plan.

I figure they are having to mess with both. Some big releases might be so baked in that they have to happen at certain times or at least in a certain order to work. Others might be easier to move around and juggle. Pushing a big release till later; pulling smaller releases forward etc...

I suspect they are messing with both aspects as things happen. Heck it might be that they are all set with a major big release and then one major container ship gets delayed and suddenly they have to either delay a week or release something smaller that's already stocked locally and awaiting a slot etc....

PenitentJake wrote:
I think it's more just a case of GW wanting to get back to the normal release schedule as fast as possible, but not knowing when they will be able to do it.

As others have said, they could give us a release order without dates... But that depends on how much they're adjusting the release schedule; if it's merely standard delays to the regular releases, the dateless doc could work.

But they may also have larger adaptations to the release schedule for the sake of grouping product releases- and if that's the case, without having a finite end time for the necessity of adaptations, it would be far more difficult to lay out a plan.

If things change, they change. They could absolutely tell us tomorrow what their plan for the next year is right now, with either vague dates or a vague order. Might things change down the line? Sure, but that's always true.

The fact that they don't is because they don't want to for business reasons, not that they can't.

It might be that stating their intentions ala a roadmap (dateless or otherwise) has the potential to set the customer base up for disappointment, meaning that people will angrily demand (what was not promised) what they thought GW was going to crank out, even if GW includes a blurb that the document is subject to change due to the constant flux of current conditions.

I wonder with limited production or distribution capability, if this would be the time to sell the things they expect to sell less of? Xenos in particular. Unless they need the quick stimulus buck from space marine releases... Or unless they are trying to use an aggressive space marine release schedule to keep space marine players addicted to purchasing product...

macluvin wrote:
It might be that stating their intentions ala a roadmap (dateless or otherwise) has the potential to set the customer base up for disappointment, meaning that people will angrily demand (what was not promised) what they thought GW was going to crank out, even if GW includes a blurb that the document is subject to change due to the constant flux of current conditions.

Eh. That's happening anyway- its currently a mess of 'what people thought,' with previews just making things more confusing at the moment (there have been people positing that Broken Realms 3 is now going to happen before BR2:Teclis, simply because the BR3 previews are current and its been weeks since we heard anything about BR2)

They need to reassure people that things are coming out (Lizardman underworlds band), not release vague statements about release dates changing in unspecified ways, and get on track with a rough order, not just plunging merrily on as if the next release will just announce itself.

What they should do is a permanent pinned article on warhammer community where all game systems are outlined (and they could do art, models, silhouettes or whatever to make it look shiny), with the revealed releases clearly stated and when each system is getting its next information snippet. And when they do announce dates, they stick them there.
They don't need to go much further than they already have (Underworlds is currently sketched out until June), but they need more accessibility and clarity.

GW is just really bad at communication. They always have been. People talk about how much better they are these days...but they don't actually communicate any better, they just market better, and people mistake the two.

A more savvy company would have been preparing people for the big focus on marines ahead of time and telling people they appreciate their frustration if they're not a marine player, and assuring them that their time in the sun was coming too, just a little bit later. Instead we get total radio silence and no acknowledgment even after two years of an overwhelming marine focus that this is anything out of the ordinary.

Of course, maybe it isn't out of the ordinary. Maybe the reason they aren't telling people that Xenos' time is coming too...is because, well, it isn't. Maybe the only thing happening in 9th for Xenos is Necrons, and it already happened. We don't know, because they won't tell us.

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW is just really bad at communication. They always have been. People talk about how much better they are these days...but they don't actually communicate any better, they just market better, and people mistake the two.

A more savvy company would have been preparing people for the big focus on marines ahead of time and telling people they appreciate their frustration if they're not a marine player, and assuring them that their time in the sun was coming too, just a little bit later. Instead we get total radio silence and no acknowledgment even after two years of an overwhelming marine focus that this is anything out of the ordinary.

Of course, maybe it isn't out of the ordinary. Maybe the reason they aren't telling people that Xenos' time is coming too...is because, well, it isn't. Maybe the only thing happening in 9th for Xenos is Necrons, and it already happened. We don't know, because they won't tell us.

And on this topic, we've seen the new datasheets for both Admech and Sisters now. So somehow, even more Imperials. And not even the ones that are hurting for rules! And not even the ones that are hurting for model updates! This is what gets me. It could be a fallacious assumption based on Covid schedule changes, but it looks to me like GW planned for 9th to be MARINES/XENOS -> MARINES -> MARINES -> MEAN MARINES -> MARINES -> XENOS -> IMPERIAL (w/new models) -> IMPERIAL (w/new models). Why the hell were SoB and Admech ever at the front of the line for 9th??

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW is just really bad at communication. They always have been. People talk about how much better they are these days...but they don't actually communicate any better, they just market better, and people mistake the two.

A more savvy company would have been preparing people for the big focus on marines ahead of time and telling people they appreciate their frustration if they're not a marine player, and assuring them that their time in the sun was coming too, just a little bit later. Instead we get total radio silence and no acknowledgment even after two years of an overwhelming marine focus that this is anything out of the ordinary.

Of course, maybe it isn't out of the ordinary. Maybe the reason they aren't telling people that Xenos' time is coming too...is because, well, it isn't. Maybe the only thing happening in 9th for Xenos is Necrons, and it already happened. We don't know, because they won't tell us.

Its less bad communication and more deliberate strategy, GW wants you to buy a unit today that becomes garbage in tomorrows codex. They fear that if they tell you that a codex is coming next month you stop buying stuff to "wait and see".
Ofcourse on the flip side is the people who don't want to buy anything because they don't know what is going to happen.

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW is just really bad at communication. They always have been. People talk about how much better they are these days...but they don't actually communicate any better, they just market better, and people mistake the two.

A more savvy company would have been preparing people for the big focus on marines ahead of time and telling people they appreciate their frustration if they're not a marine player, and assuring them that their time in the sun was coming too, just a little bit later. Instead we get total radio silence and no acknowledgment even after two years of an overwhelming marine focus that this is anything out of the ordinary.

Of course, maybe it isn't out of the ordinary. Maybe the reason they aren't telling people that Xenos' time is coming too...is because, well, it isn't. Maybe the only thing happening in 9th for Xenos is Necrons, and it already happened. We don't know, because they won't tell us.

Really agree with this, and given their penchant for squatting all things non imperium, I'm very hesitant to buy xenos armies (I'm not interest in necrons, and didn't think the new models are worth the money at all over the old ones). Kind of annoys me that we now equate "xenos" which is like 8 armies or something, with what used to be considered 1 army. This whole shift from being a rich universe with loads of different playstyles and races, to its a game about space marines, and everything else is an npc, I really want to get back into 40k but this and the new rules are just big deterrents. Given how many kits forgeworld have gotten rid of for non marine factions too, it isn't a good sign for the future of anything not in power armour.

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Why the hell were SoB and Admech ever at the front of the line for 9th??

In the case of AdMech? To get all the models that have been released since their Codex came out - and we're talking 8-10 datasheets here, off the top of my head, ignoring anything new that drops - into the Codex so they don't have to rely on Engine War remaining in print.

There are pretty good odds that the AdMech book just has the Skitarii character as a new release - there may be other things, but that's the only confirmed one.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Why the hell were SoB and Admech ever at the front of the line for 9th??

In the case of AdMech? To get all the models that have been released since their Codex came out - and we're talking 8-10 datasheets here, off the top of my head, ignoring anything new that drops - into the Codex so they don't have to rely on Engine War remaining in print.

There are pretty good odds that the AdMech book just has the Skitarii character as a new release - there may be other things, but that's the only confirmed one.

And as for Sisters, it's done to make up for the fact that there was only two months between geting our full Codex release and the announcement of the end of the edition. Don't get me wrong- Sisters are my primary army, and even so, I would gladly push back their release if it meant a better release for DE and a good full release for CWE.

But there is some lingering frustration over the whole Sisters curse thing. And giving us a nice second wave will go a long way. And man... Did we buy a lot of plastic once they gave us the option- honestly, I think that's part of it: we're almost as much of a license to print money as space marines.

If GW does it right (and they did with Sisters), the combined flavours of Eldar could also be a license to print money. But it takes investment to make that happen. Hopefully the lesson of Sisters gives them the guts to try other neglected factions. The Banshee situation is unfortunate: the legacy content in the BotP box pushed the price point too high; had they costed the box in the neighborhood of the new KT box for just JZ and the Banshees vs. Draz and the Incubi, they would have sold twice as many boxes. If the box of Banshees or the box of Incubi was ten or even five bucks cheaper, they'd sell twice as many of those too.

Heck, if the Banshee rules had been just a tad better, they might have sold more. And if they had done all three of these things correctly, these models would have flown off the shelves.

Unfortunately, GW flubbed not one, not two, but all three of these details. And I've always feared they might be obtuse enough to conclude that there was no interest in plastic Aspects, without realizing all of the things they did to hamper the success of the release.

 Ordana wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW is just really bad at communication. They always have been. People talk about how much better they are these days...but they don't actually communicate any better, they just market better, and people mistake the two.

A more savvy company would have been preparing people for the big focus on marines ahead of time and telling people they appreciate their frustration if they're not a marine player, and assuring them that their time in the sun was coming too, just a little bit later. Instead we get total radio silence and no acknowledgment even after two years of an overwhelming marine focus that this is anything out of the ordinary.

Of course, maybe it isn't out of the ordinary. Maybe the reason they aren't telling people that Xenos' time is coming too...is because, well, it isn't. Maybe the only thing happening in 9th for Xenos is Necrons, and it already happened. We don't know, because they won't tell us.

Its less bad communication and more deliberate strategy, GW wants you to buy a unit today that becomes garbage in tomorrows codex. They fear that if they tell you that a codex is coming next month you stop buying stuff to "wait and see".
Ofcourse on the flip side is the people who don't want to buy anything because they don't know what is going to happen.

I'm definitely in the latter category. I'm interested enough in Cursed City that I'm buying nothing until that comes around. And anything fantasy related is on hold until I see ALL of whats coming for the undead, just in case they pull a bait and switch like Lumenith (first couple units look like revised high elves, then everything goes to Absurdville).

I was thinking about picking up some daemon stuff for 40k, but paused for the 'if you have it in your cart giveaway' (despite the odds) and just... didn't. And now I don't want to until I see if anything coming with Be'lakor and any conversion possibilities he opens up. Plus, I'm waiting to see what's after Dark Eldar. I think its going to be Ad Mech, Knights, Sisters and Orks (based on previewed model snippets and Warzone Charadon Book 1), but since I don't know for certain... oh well.

Better to not spend. And that's not the decision their marketing should be guiding me to.

PenitentJake wrote:
I think it's more just a case of GW wanting to get back to the normal release schedule as fast as possible, but not knowing when they will be able to do it..

Well they just said normal operation resumes on 20th

I do wonder how often people actually use these new rules in games they actually play.

PenitentJake wrote:

If GW does it right (and they did with Sisters), the combined flavours of Eldar could also be a license to print money. But it takes investment to make that happen. Hopefully the lesson of Sisters gives them the guts to try other neglected factions. The Banshee situation is unfortunate: the legacy content in the BotP box pushed the price point too high; had they costed the box in the neighborhood of the new KT box for just JZ and the Banshees vs. Draz and the Incubi, they would have sold twice as many boxes. If the box of Banshees or the box of Incubi was ten or even five bucks cheaper, they'd sell twice as many of those too..

Lol. Ah the armchair marketing generals in forums making silly claims with zero evidence

BTW GW has tried cheaper releases. Obviously it hasn't resulted in suitable sale increase. Not to mention GW is making record profit while literally unable to produce enough to keep up with demand...Hell it's doubtful they could sell even 5% more boxes seeing they can't even produce enough as is...

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW is just really bad at communication. They always have been. People talk about how much better they are these days...but they don't actually communicate any better, they just market better, and people mistake the two.

A more savvy company would have been preparing people for the big focus on marines ahead of time and telling people they appreciate their frustration if they're not a marine player, and assuring them that their time in the sun was coming too, just a little bit later. Instead we get total radio silence and no acknowledgment even after two years of an overwhelming marine focus that this is anything out of the ordinary.

Of course, maybe it isn't out of the ordinary. Maybe the reason they aren't telling people that Xenos' time is coming too...is because, well, it isn't. Maybe the only thing happening in 9th for Xenos is Necrons, and it already happened. We don't know, because they won't tell us.

And on this topic, we've seen the new datasheets for both Admech and Sisters now. So somehow, even more Imperials. And not even the ones that are hurting for rules! And not even the ones that are hurting for model updates! This is what gets me. It could be a fallacious assumption based on Covid schedule changes, but it looks to me like GW planned for 9th to be MARINES/XENOS -> MARINES -> MARINES -> MEAN MARINES -> MARINES -> XENOS -> IMPERIAL (w/new models) -> IMPERIAL (w/new models). Why the hell were SoB and Admech ever at the front of the line for 9th??

To be fair I think Admech and Sisters players are lowkey dreading their 9th rules updates.

There are so many exploitable and abusive rules in those books that would just disappear overnight with 9th Ed design concepts applied. Admech shooting especially would see a gigantic hit.

Sisters and Admech are two of the three strongest armies right now on Competitive TTS play. I don't think GW cares about whether an army is weak or not when it's working out orders of release, it likely has more to do with the number of units that are on release for an army that are not in a codex. That's just a guess, though it is somewhat substantiated by the godawful CSM 8.2 codex rerelease.

 grouchoben wrote:
Sisters and Admech are two of the three strongest armies right now on Competitive TTS play. I don't think GW cares about whether an army is weak or not when it's working out orders of release, it likely has more to do with the number of units that are on release for an army that are not in a codex. That's just a guess, though it is somewhat substantiated by the godawful CSM 8.2 codex rerelease.

1000 times this, they are two top tier armys

while playing with CWE its like.... well lets say its not fun

And dont even get me started with ynnari lol

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW is just really bad at communication. They always have been. People talk about how much better they are these days...but they don't actually communicate any better, they just market better, and people mistake the two.

A more savvy company would have been preparing people for the big focus on marines ahead of time and telling people they appreciate their frustration if they're not a marine player, and assuring them that their time in the sun was coming too, just a little bit later. Instead we get total radio silence and no acknowledgment even after two years of an overwhelming marine focus that this is anything out of the ordinary.

Of course, maybe it isn't out of the ordinary. Maybe the reason they aren't telling people that Xenos' time is coming too...is because, well, it isn't. Maybe the only thing happening in 9th for Xenos is Necrons, and it already happened. We don't know, because they won't tell us.

And if you think regular GW is bad at communication, try being a Horus Heresy player!

We still have minis that got previewed early last year that haven't been released yet(Word Bearers praetors).
After Crusade was released, any and all content for 30k basically dried up, with the exception of a few blurb articles on Warhammer Community in the vein of "You can preorder this mini now".
One of the few remaining designers for the game announced on his Facebook that he was leaving FW and moving on to a new job at a different company. In that post, he mentioned that that effectively, the Horus Heresy design team was down to one person.
There's no telling whether or not 30k will even see anything new this year. No word on the next black book, or if they'll continue the books at all.
Horus Heresy is conspicuously missing from the "Explore Our Games" tab on the Warhammer Community site.
There's no roadmap for the game at all, even though multiple other specialist games have received them.

Needless to say, it's incredibly frustrating to be in that situation right now. Any communication whatsoever from FW about the Heresy would be amazing, even if it were something like "Hey, the game is on pause right now while we work on getting more designers". I'm not worried about my ork army - 40K isn't going anywhere - but I'd be annoyed if they decided to squat 30k altogether.

 Mr. Grey wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW is just really bad at communication. They always have been. People talk about how much better they are these days...but they don't actually communicate any better, they just market better, and people mistake the two.

A more savvy company would have been preparing people for the big focus on marines ahead of time and telling people they appreciate their frustration if they're not a marine player, and assuring them that their time in the sun was coming too, just a little bit later. Instead we get total radio silence and no acknowledgment even after two years of an overwhelming marine focus that this is anything out of the ordinary.

Of course, maybe it isn't out of the ordinary. Maybe the reason they aren't telling people that Xenos' time is coming too...is because, well, it isn't. Maybe the only thing happening in 9th for Xenos is Necrons, and it already happened. We don't know, because they won't tell us.

And if you think regular GW is bad at communication, try being a Horus Heresy player!

We still have minis that got previewed early last year that haven't been released yet(Word Bearers praetors).
After Crusade was released, any and all content for 30k basically dried up, with the exception of a few blurb articles on Warhammer Community in the vein of "You can preorder this mini now".
One of the few remaining designers for the game announced on his Facebook that he was leaving FW and moving on to a new job at a different company. In that post, he mentioned that that effectively, the Horus Heresy design team was down to one person.
There's no telling whether or not 30k will even see anything new this year. No word on the next black book, or if they'll continue the books at all.
Horus Heresy is conspicuously missing from the "Explore Our Games" tab on the Warhammer Community site.
There's no roadmap for the game at all, even though multiple other specialist games have received them.

Needless to say, it's incredibly frustrating to be in that situation right now. Any communication whatsoever from FW about the Heresy would be amazing, even if it were something like "Hey, the game is on pause right now while we work on getting more designers". I'm not worried about my ork army - 40K isn't going anywhere - but I'd be annoyed if they decided to squat 30k altogether.

This is the sort of thing I point to when people say GW is "good" (i.e. business savvy) customer. Yes, they have exploded in terms of market cap and they sell lots of models. That doesn't change the fundamentals that in lots of ways, they are just old/"the only game in town"/lucky.

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW is just really bad at communication. They always have been. People talk about how much better they are these days...but they don't actually communicate any better, they just market better, and people mistake the two.

A more savvy company would have been preparing people for the big focus on marines ahead of time and telling people they appreciate their frustration if they're not a marine player, and assuring them that their time in the sun was coming too, just a little bit later. Instead we get total radio silence and no acknowledgment even after two years of an overwhelming marine focus that this is anything out of the ordinary.

Of course, maybe it isn't out of the ordinary. Maybe the reason they aren't telling people that Xenos' time is coming too...is because, well, it isn't. Maybe the only thing happening in 9th for Xenos is Necrons, and it already happened. We don't know, because they won't tell us.

And if you think regular GW is bad at communication, try being a Horus Heresy player!

We still have minis that got previewed early last year that haven't been released yet(Word Bearers praetors).
After Crusade was released, any and all content for 30k basically dried up, with the exception of a few blurb articles on Warhammer Community in the vein of "You can preorder this mini now".
One of the few remaining designers for the game announced on his Facebook that he was leaving FW and moving on to a new job at a different company. In that post, he mentioned that that effectively, the Horus Heresy design team was down to one person.
There's no telling whether or not 30k will even see anything new this year. No word on the next black book, or if they'll continue the books at all.
Horus Heresy is conspicuously missing from the "Explore Our Games" tab on the Warhammer Community site.
There's no roadmap for the game at all, even though multiple other specialist games have received them.

Needless to say, it's incredibly frustrating to be in that situation right now. Any communication whatsoever from FW about the Heresy would be amazing, even if it were something like "Hey, the game is on pause right now while we work on getting more designers". I'm not worried about my ork army - 40K isn't going anywhere - but I'd be annoyed if they decided to squat 30k altogether.

This is the sort of thing I point to when people say GW is "good" (i.e. business savvy) customer. Yes, they have exploded in terms of market cap and they sell lots of models. That doesn't change the fundamentals that in lots of ways, they are just old/"the only game in town"/lucky.

People really misunderstand GW's stock value, it's not really been driven by it's sales (if it was it would have been much higher years ago), it's largely driven by the potential value of their IP. Total War's release really coincided with the epic run it's stock has had, it brought attention to the fact that what was previously thought of as a toy company has the potential to be digitsed. The potential to become a Marvel/LotR style franchise, this is the real value of GW. Hence it's valuation is similar to a tech company, not a toy manufacturer (mature business). Think of the value of Gundam, Pokemon, they're nuts, this is what GW is aiming for.

 Mr. Grey wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW is just really bad at communication. They always have been. People talk about how much better they are these days...but they don't actually communicate any better, they just market better, and people mistake the two.

A more savvy company would have been preparing people for the big focus on marines ahead of time and telling people they appreciate their frustration if they're not a marine player, and assuring them that their time in the sun was coming too, just a little bit later. Instead we get total radio silence and no acknowledgment even after two years of an overwhelming marine focus that this is anything out of the ordinary.

Of course, maybe it isn't out of the ordinary. Maybe the reason they aren't telling people that Xenos' time is coming too...is because, well, it isn't. Maybe the only thing happening in 9th for Xenos is Necrons, and it already happened. We don't know, because they won't tell us.

And if you think regular GW is bad at communication, try being a Horus Heresy player!

We still have minis that got previewed early last year that haven't been released yet(Word Bearers praetors).
After Crusade was released, any and all content for 30k basically dried up, with the exception of a few blurb articles on Warhammer Community in the vein of "You can preorder this mini now".
One of the few remaining designers for the game announced on his Facebook that he was leaving FW and moving on to a new job at a different company. In that post, he mentioned that that effectively, the Horus Heresy design team was down to one person.
There's no telling whether or not 30k will even see anything new this year. No word on the next black book, or if they'll continue the books at all.
Horus Heresy is conspicuously missing from the "Explore Our Games" tab on the Warhammer Community site.
There's no roadmap for the game at all, even though multiple other specialist games have received them.

Needless to say, it's incredibly frustrating to be in that situation right now. Any communication whatsoever from FW about the Heresy would be amazing, even if it were something like "Hey, the game is on pause right now while we work on getting more designers". I'm not worried about my ork army - 40K isn't going anywhere - but I'd be annoyed if they decided to squat 30k altogether.

Hate to say it but it appears that they are winding down HH. We sort of knew it was coming and also The Old World stepping in to take its place. It is disappointing they didn't want to support both and just hired more people. I mean they are rolling bank.. 100-200K overhead for another 5 people would literly do nothing to their profits and would result in more sales of HH.

Ielthan wrote:

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW is just really bad at communication. They always have been. People talk about how much better they are these days...but they don't actually communicate any better, they just market better, and people mistake the two.

A more savvy company would have been preparing people for the big focus on marines ahead of time and telling people they appreciate their frustration if they're not a marine player, and assuring them that their time in the sun was coming too, just a little bit later. Instead we get total radio silence and no acknowledgment even after two years of an overwhelming marine focus that this is anything out of the ordinary.

Of course, maybe it isn't out of the ordinary. Maybe the reason they aren't telling people that Xenos' time is coming too...is because, well, it isn't. Maybe the only thing happening in 9th for Xenos is Necrons, and it already happened. We don't know, because they won't tell us.

And if you think regular GW is bad at communication, try being a Horus Heresy player!

We still have minis that got previewed early last year that haven't been released yet(Word Bearers praetors).
After Crusade was released, any and all content for 30k basically dried up, with the exception of a few blurb articles on Warhammer Community in the vein of "You can preorder this mini now".
One of the few remaining designers for the game announced on his Facebook that he was leaving FW and moving on to a new job at a different company. In that post, he mentioned that that effectively, the Horus Heresy design team was down to one person.
There's no telling whether or not 30k will even see anything new this year. No word on the next black book, or if they'll continue the books at all.
Horus Heresy is conspicuously missing from the "Explore Our Games" tab on the Warhammer Community site.
There's no roadmap for the game at all, even though multiple other specialist games have received them.

Needless to say, it's incredibly frustrating to be in that situation right now. Any communication whatsoever from FW about the Heresy would be amazing, even if it were something like "Hey, the game is on pause right now while we work on getting more designers". I'm not worried about my ork army - 40K isn't going anywhere - but I'd be annoyed if they decided to squat 30k altogether.

This is the sort of thing I point to when people say GW is "good" (i.e. business savvy) customer. Yes, they have exploded in terms of market cap and they sell lots of models. That doesn't change the fundamentals that in lots of ways, they are just old/"the only game in town"/lucky.

People really misunderstand GW's stock value, it's not really been driven by it's sales (if it was it would have been much higher years ago), it's largely driven by the potential value of their IP. Total War's release really coincided with the epic run it's stock has had, it brought attention to the fact that what was previously thought of as a toy company has the potential to be digitsed. The potential to become a Marvel/LotR style franchise, this is the real value of GW. Hence it's valuation is similar to a tech company, not a toy manufacturer (mature business). Think of the value of Gundam, Pokemon, they're nuts, this is what GW is aiming for.

Yeah, good point. And by that logic, the comings and goings of the game itself and the players that play it are less important. As folks have said in other threads, the Marine wankery isn't as omni-present in things like the video games and TV because they're either not 40k (Total War, Vermintide, etc. etc.) or offer alternate POVs (Battlefleet Gothic, the Eisenhorn show that may or may not get off the ground). So you can have a tabletop game that's a shell of itself (not that I'm saying that's the case), and possibly declining/stagnant model revenues (which we totally saw in 7th, the IP revenues were what helped prop things up), and still see an overall successful company (WotC is probably a good comparison there with Magic).

...yeah. That all makes sense. I'm not a fan of that outcome but I could see it happening. Because while GW is inept, they've done a decent job with growing that IP aspect. They definitely have made some missteps there but the market is so large, I don't think it matters that much if they weren't totally maximizing things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Argive wrote:


Hate to say it but it appears that they are winding down HH. We sort of knew it was coming and also The Old World stepping in to take its place. It is disappointing they didn't want to support both and just hired more people. I mean they are rolling bank.. 100-200K overhead for another 5 people would literly do nothing to their profits and would result in more sales of HH.

Well, probably more overhead than that but still a drop in the bucket given their revenues and margin. In general, that's what drives me crazy (you add like another 15 people overall and you could make all GW's rules the envy of the industry instead of just the models), but like what I said above, it doesn't really matter for GW because they'll be able to kill it on IP anyways. They could drive 40k model revenue into the ground and probably still be successful. In fact, that seems like the savvy business move because then you don't have to maintain all those crazy GW stores...

 Argive wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
GW is just really bad at communication. They always have been. People talk about how much better they are these days...but they don't actually communicate any better, they just market better, and people mistake the two.

A more savvy company would have been preparing people for the big focus on marines ahead of time and telling people they appreciate their frustration if they're not a marine player, and assuring them that their time in the sun was coming too, just a little bit later. Instead we get total radio silence and no acknowledgment even after two years of an overwhelming marine focus that this is anything out of the ordinary.

Of course, maybe it isn't out of the ordinary. Maybe the reason they aren't telling people that Xenos' time is coming too...is because, well, it isn't. Maybe the only thing happening in 9th for Xenos is Necrons, and it already happened. We don't know, because they won't tell us.

And if you think regular GW is bad at communication, try being a Horus Heresy player!

We still have minis that got previewed early last year that haven't been released yet(Word Bearers praetors).
After Crusade was released, any and all content for 30k basically dried up, with the exception of a few blurb articles on Warhammer Community in the vein of "You can preorder this mini now".
One of the few remaining designers for the game announced on his Facebook that he was leaving FW and moving on to a new job at a different company. In that post, he mentioned that that effectively, the Horus Heresy design team was down to one person.
There's no telling whether or not 30k will even see anything new this year. No word on the next black book, or if they'll continue the books at all.
Horus Heresy is conspicuously missing from the "Explore Our Games" tab on the Warhammer Community site.
There's no roadmap for the game at all, even though multiple other specialist games have received them.

Needless to say, it's incredibly frustrating to be in that situation right now. Any communication whatsoever from FW about the Heresy would be amazing, even if it were something like "Hey, the game is on pause right now while we work on getting more designers". I'm not worried about my ork army - 40K isn't going anywhere - but I'd be annoyed if they decided to squat 30k altogether.

Hate to say it but it appears that they are winding down HH. We sort of knew it was coming and also The Old World stepping in to take its place. It is disappointing they didn't want to support both and just hired more people. I mean they are rolling bank.. 100-200K overhead for another 5 people would literly do nothing to their profits and would result in more sales of HH.

Which seems bizarre to me as a 30k player. Yes, the series of novels is done and they've moved on to the Siege of Terra, but don't tell me that there isn't more room in the setting for a lot of expanded content taking place both during and just after the Heresy. As you said, with their current profits it feels like they really could do both The Old World and the Horus Heresy, but for some weird reason I get the feeling that the 30k design team/studio is the abandoned orphan kid in the corner who gets almost no attention from GW proper.

It may very well be true that they're winding down 30k, but I'll keep my hopes up regardless until there's an official announcement that it's done. ...and then I'll keep playing anyway, because honestly I much prefer it to the 8th/9th ed mess with its massive content churn cycle.

Throw in 3d printing becoming better by the day, and more and more people being competent with 3d sculpting software, and their core business as a miniature manufacturer really doesn't have much of a moat anymore. Already we're seeing small companies rival or even surpass their quality, the technological changes will only exacerbate this. In the even medium term they have no real answer to the problem of 3d printing.

If GW didn't have it's distinct and mature IP it's stock would have been in the toilet long ago in the vein of oil companies, combustion engine car manufacturers and other dying, disrupted industries. The next 20 years are gonna see an enormous decentralisation of well, everything, skills included. So GW's moat solely relying on being able to hire the best sculptors is tenuous at best (consider that even 40 years ago Tom Meier left wargame sculpting to work for toy companies as it was so much better paid).

I always find it quite funny when I hear aos fans claim their game turned GW around, when in fact it was the WFB IP that GW had killed off that very same year. GW hit the jackpot without even planning it, hence the Old World is coming back, after Tolkien it's the most developed Fantasy IP in existence, it's arguable even richer than Middle Earth. The Old World is not coming back to sell models, it's coming back to allow them to further develop the WFB IP in a popular way.

Their future as a company in reality lies in the realm of entertainment, not miniatures.

I always wonder how they felt when their sales must have reached new roofs during the end times releases, when every one thought it was going to be awesome and the game would be forever better after it (lol).
The drought following AoS release must have hurt.

And I don't think 3D printing is going to move them anytime soon. Ease/difficulty of use aside, they are going to lose people they were going to lose anyway (to third parties, to other game companies, anything), the rest is still going to enjoy GW's products.

dhallnet wrote:
I always wonder how they felt when their sales must have reached new roofs during the end times releases, when every one thought it was going to be awesome and the game would be forever better after it (lol).
The drought following AoS release must have hurt.

And I don't think 3D printing is going to move them anytime soon. Ease/difficulty of use aside, they are going to lose people they were going to lose anyway (to third parties, to other game companies, anything), the rest is still going to enjoy GW's products.

Yeah, it really added some spice to the gut punch that was the ending....was a monumentally idiotic move by an incompetent CEO. They could have rebooted the system to fit the same aos format if they really wanted to, rebranding everything to these stupid names etc. Ditching the IP makes you realise they didn't really understand the value of what they had. The AoS IP has not even a fraction of the same value, and is really competing against a giant field of other nascent fantasy IP's trying to ride the Marvel coat tails.


The rate at which the technology is improving is pretty crazy, like this years model will offer significant improvements over last years model etc, this will likely accelerate given the increasing profitability drawing in more investment. You have to remember the technological improvements are really being driven by the industrail manufacturing and medical spaces, which receive massive, massive investment, home 3d printers are riding their coat tails.

Issues such as ease of use are ultimately solveable problems. I can definitely see GW selling STL's within 10 years or less, they won't have a choice, especially as it could massively reduce costs (less overheads, reduced prices/increased margins). Some small manufacturers have already adopted this dual format.

Ielthan wrote:
I can definitely see GW selling STL's within 10 years or less, they won't have a choice, especially as it could massively reduce costs (less overheads, reduced prices/increased margins). Some small manufacturers have already adopted this dual format.

Really?

Because GW doesn't even make digital codexes anymore.

I can see GW selling STLs that only work on a GW branded printer that costs more and doesn't work as well as other 3d printers. I can also see them making the STL's only available as a subscription, or being code-locked behind some physical purchase. But I don't ever see GW selling anything that's easy to share online.

I'd also add that resisting technological innovation is another way to capture other segments of the market; as soon as everyone is doing STL only because reasons, the folks who still sell miniatures will have a captive audience of those who don't want to 3d print stuff. It's like the APP-ification of retail- for every business that doesn't want to deal with you unless you do EVERYTHING on a stupid phone, there are other businesses willing to see to the needs of the phone-fatigued.

Ielthan wrote:
They could have rebooted the system to fit the same aos format if they really wanted to, rebranding everything to these stupid names etc. Ditching the IP makes you realise they didn't really understand the value of what they had.

Yeah pretty much, they could have 2 games drawing from the same miniatures (like... 40K and Apocalypse for example) and keep everyone happy. But nope, "it was too hard to tell stories", haha.

Ielthan wrote:
The rate at which the technology is improving is pretty crazy, like this years model will offer significant improvements over last years model etc, this will likely accelerate given the increasing profitability drawing in more investment. You have to remember the technological improvements are really being driven by the industrail manufacturing and medical spaces, which receive massive, massive investment, home 3d printers are riding their coat tails.

Issues such as ease of use are ultimately solveable problems. I can definitely see GW selling STL's within 10 years or less, they won't have a choice, especially as it could massively reduce costs (less overheads, reduced prices/increased margins). Some small manufacturers have already adopted this dual format.

Indeed and it's kinda mature for general use right now (provided you have some spot in your home that is safe) but what I meant is more that some people will always be happy to buy their products. Heck, I have a printer, I still buy some of their minis. Not because I can't find an stl online or whatever, just because I like them. And I think it will always be unless the whole miniature market turns around at some point and everyone prints their own stuff, boardgames comes with stl files, etc.
Which I doubt and I think there is space for both, you can print Magic TG cards since forever, WotC doesn't sell designs to print AFAIK and this little card thing they have going on is far from going out of business even though there must be some people playing with prints.

Anyway, we'll see what the future brings.

PenitentJake 796710 11074522 wrote:


I can see GW selling STLs that only work on a GW branded printer that costs more and doesn't work as well as other 3d printers. I can also see them making the STL's only available as a subscription, or being code-locked behind some physical purchase. But I don't ever see GW selling anything that's easy to share online.

I'd also add that resisting technological innovation is another way to capture other segments of the market; as soon as everyone is doing STL only because reasons, the folks who still sell miniatures will have a captive audience of those who don't want to 3d print stuff. It's like the APP-ification of retail- for every business that doesn't want to deal with you unless you do EVERYTHING on a stupid phone, there are other businesses willing to see to the needs of the phone-fatigued.

Three words. bio degradable resin. Imagine this. you sell models, but after 2-3 years they just fall apart. No secondary market, people have to rebuy armies, and the non eco friendly stuff that stays for ever, receives an according tax for being not bio friendly. Would be like shoes that fall apart after one seson or AGD stuff that falls apart after a certain age on its own.

Karol wrote:

Three words. bio degradable resin. Imagine this. you sell models, but after 2-3 years they just fall apart. No secondary market, people have to rebuy armies, and the non eco friendly stuff that stays for ever, receives an according tax for being not bio friendly. Would be like shoes that fall apart after one seson or AGD stuff that falls apart after a certain age on its own.

Yeah, that I could see, I suppose.

I'll never buy it, but I could see them trying to sell it. Seriously damages the collector market though.

Time will tell I suppose.

PenitentJake wrote:

Ielthan wrote:
I can definitely see GW selling STL's within 10 years or less, they won't have a choice, especially as it could massively reduce costs (less overheads, reduced prices/increased margins). Some small manufacturers have already adopted this dual format.

Really?

Because GW doesn't even make digital codexes anymore.

I can see GW selling STLs that only work on a GW branded printer that costs more and doesn't work as well as other 3d printers. I can also see them making the STL's only available as a subscription, or being code-locked behind some physical purchase. But I don't ever see GW selling anything that's easy to share online.

I'd also add that resisting technological innovation is another way to capture other segments of the market; as soon as everyone is doing STL only because reasons, the folks who still sell miniatures will have a captive audience of those who don't want to 3d print stuff. It's like the APP-ification of retail- for every business that doesn't want to deal with you unless you do EVERYTHING on a stupid phone, there are other businesses willing to see to the needs of the phone-fatigued.

This is actually in keeping with the pattern these companies go through, which is:

1. Fight fight fight the hardest you can agianst the new technology, even if it means cutting off your nose to spite your face, right up until ....

2. You admit defeat and embrace it and try to make money off it.

It's exactly what happened with the music industry, for example. The fact that GW is now still in the "fight the losing battle ever harder" doesn't preclude it eventually doing a U-turn.

In this case though, I think people vastly overrate the potential of 3D printing to change the market. Most people have no interest in dealing with the whole 3D printing process, certainly not for whole squads worth of tiny miniatures. They'd rather pay someone else to print it for them. And as long as that person is still paying GW licensing fees, it's unlikely they're going to charge you all that much less than GW does. I mean look at those Artel miniatures people quoted above: The characters are cheaper because GW charges a ridiculous premium for characters, but the squads cost as much if not more than GW's own offerings.

I can see that GW may have to lower the premium it charges for individual infantry-sized character sculpts because there is a large enough mark-up there that there's a market to be exploited, but that's about it.

Heck people avoid resin because of the extra step of washing it in warm water - the idea of printing, then washing in IPA, rinsing in IPA - washing in warm water - removing supports - curing - cleaning bits off it and then likely another water wash for good measure before painting.

Yeah that's a LOT more steps and faff for many. So yeah I don't think its going to change unless they can make a printer that basically spits out the fully cured model ready to go for the person.

 Overread wrote:
Heck people avoid resin because of the extra step of washing it in warm water - the idea of printing, then washing in IPA, rinsing in IPA - washing in warm water - removing supports - curing - cleaning bits off it and then likely another water wash for good measure before painting.

Yeah that's a LOT more steps and faff for many. So yeah I don't think its going to change unless they can make a printer that basically spits out the fully cured model ready to go for the person.

^ I resemble this remark...

Karol wrote:

Three words. bio degradable resin. Imagine this. you sell models, but after 2-3 years they just fall apart. No secondary market, people have to rebuy armies, and the non eco friendly stuff that stays for ever, receives an according tax for being not bio friendly. Would be like shoes that fall apart after one seson or AGD stuff that falls apart after a certain age on its own.

Yeah it might make sense in your world where everyone tries to scam everyone else but nobody would buy those items. There is a huge, i mean HUGE, collecting part taking place in "miniature gaming" (dunno how to coin this, I don't like the term "hobby").


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:
Heck people avoid resin because of the extra step of washing it in warm water - the idea of printing, then washing in IPA, rinsing in IPA - washing in warm water - removing supports - curing - cleaning bits off it and then likely another water wash for good measure before painting.

Yeah that's a LOT more steps and faff for many. So yeah I don't think its going to change unless they can make a printer that basically spits out the fully cured model ready to go for the person.

Depending on what kind of stl we're talking, it's actually faster or as fast to clean the model and remove supports than getting the pieces of sprue and building the model.
It can also be a pain in the rear when dealing with obscure models. Goes both ways.

dhallnet wrote:

Yeah it might make sense in your world where everyone tries to scam everyone else but nobody would buy those items. There is a huge, i mean HUGE, collecting part taking place in "miniature gaming" (dunno how to coin this, I don't like the term "hobby").

I dunno man, plenty of people buy iPhones; they're well known to do exactly that. Same with a lot of the appliances on the market today, particularly washing machines and dryers.

Making worse products so people will buy them more often is a thing.

VonGerrow wrote:

dhallnet wrote:

Yeah it might make sense in your world where everyone tries to scam everyone else but nobody would buy those items. There is a huge, i mean HUGE, collecting part taking place in "miniature gaming" (dunno how to coin this, I don't like the term "hobby").

I dunno man, plenty of people buy iPhones; they're well known to do exactly that. Same with a lot of the appliances on the market today, particularly washing machines and dryers.

Making worse products so people will buy them more often is a thing.

Wargamers have proven that we are not "normal" customers

Heck many of us won't even buy into a game unless we can see it has at least a 5 year lifespan if not longer!


You can't just apply electronic market measures to wargames and hope to win - it will fail. Heck I suspect that kickstarters and patreons for 3D SLT files will only enjoy a boom period so long as the actual 3D market continues to grow. As soon as growth stops (ergo new people) or slows; I would imagine that people will hit practical limits of how many files and models they need. I'd predict over the coming years we'll see Patreons and similar for 3D have a massive boom period; however only so long as the 3D printer market booms. Any slowdown there and it will impact the designs with some lag time. Heck even those in it now are talking about how they are getting more and more picky. They just don't need 40 different huge dragons or giants to print.

dhallnet wrote:

Karol wrote:

Three words. bio degradable resin. Imagine this. you sell models, but after 2-3 years they just fall apart. No secondary market, people have to rebuy armies, and the non eco friendly stuff that stays for ever, receives an according tax for being not bio friendly. Would be like shoes that fall apart after one seson or AGD stuff that falls apart after a certain age on its own.

Yeah it might make sense in your world where everyone tries to scam everyone else but nobody would buy those items. There is a huge, i mean HUGE, collecting part taking place in "miniature gaming" (dunno how to coin this, I don't like the term "hobby").

I mean I could say it is an eastern euro/asian thing. But Nike or Puma are western companies, and they design they stuff to break apart after a seson of wearing. With the materials they have they could make shoes and track suits that last for years, but then they would sell you one per 3 years. Better make a shoe that last 12 months, and sell you three in the same time. Tech stuff is made the same, specially the american apple stuff, their stuff breaks itself after a pre set time, that strangle coresponds with new products of the same line coming out. So yes it does make sense in a world where people try to scam other people, I agree, I just think that the everyone is a much larger number of people you may think it is.

 Overread wrote:
Heck people avoid resin because of the extra step of washing it in warm water - the idea of printing, then washing in IPA, rinsing in IPA - washing in warm water - removing supports - curing - cleaning bits off it and then likely another water wash for good measure before painting.

Back up a second - why do you need to wash and rinse your prints in beer?

 Dysartes wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Heck people avoid resin because of the extra step of washing it in warm water - the idea of printing, then washing in IPA, rinsing in IPA - washing in warm water - removing supports - curing - cleaning bits off it and then likely another water wash for good measure before painting.

Back up a second - why do you need to wash and rinse your prints in beer?

Geneva convention requirements, denying them beer is inhumane.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Heck people avoid resin because of the extra step of washing it in warm water - the idea of printing, then washing in IPA, rinsing in IPA - washing in warm water - removing supports - curing - cleaning bits off it and then likely another water wash for good measure before painting.

Back up a second - why do you need to wash and rinse your prints in beer?

For the same reason you have to hit a ship with a bottle of wine when naming it - If you want the model to roll good rolls in battle its got to be bathed and blessed in beer





For those who don't know, IPA - isopropyl alcohol - is used to wash the models as it cleans the liquid resin left on the model off. That way you've a clean model ready for curing, otherwise you'll be curing wet resin and that will utterly destroy the detail. There are some resins that are water-washable where you'd use water instead of IPA.

VonGerrow wrote:

dhallnet wrote:

Yeah it might make sense in your world where everyone tries to scam everyone else but nobody would buy those items. There is a huge, i mean HUGE, collecting part taking place in "miniature gaming" (dunno how to coin this, I don't like the term "hobby").

I dunno man, plenty of people buy iPhones; they're well known to do exactly that. Same with a lot of the appliances on the market today, particularly washing machines and dryers.

Making worse products so people will buy them more often is a thing.

Your iPhone doesn't magically stop working and fall apart on you just because two newer versions have come out and it's a few years old, by the way. I used my 3GS from 2010 until roughly 2016, and while it was certainly struggling a bit in that last year or so, it was still usable for what I needed it for.

 Mr. Grey wrote:

VonGerrow wrote:

dhallnet wrote:

Yeah it might make sense in your world where everyone tries to scam everyone else but nobody would buy those items. There is a huge, i mean HUGE, collecting part taking place in "miniature gaming" (dunno how to coin this, I don't like the term "hobby").

I dunno man, plenty of people buy iPhones; they're well known to do exactly that. Same with a lot of the appliances on the market today, particularly washing machines and dryers.

Making worse products so people will buy them more often is a thing.

Your iPhone doesn't magically stop working and fall apart on you just because two newer versions have come out and it's a few years old, by the way. I used my 3GS from 2010 until roughly 2016, and while it was certainly struggling a bit in that last year or so, it was still usable for what I needed it for.

Actually Apple did get caught uploading new firmwire that slowed down their older edition of a phone. I think the EU made them pay a fine for it. If they could they'd brick your phone as soon as the new model came out.
The attitude toward manufacture and products from a firm like Apple is just alien to Wargame markets.

yep. But this is nothing new for us eastern europe dudes. We have been telling the EU, that western companies are selling same named products, but worse in our countries for longer then I live. And when they finaly checked, they find out that same name food prodcuts, cleaning products even stuff TV or Freezers, are worse versions of the western stuff. less nuts in chocolate, less coco in it too, fewer active stuff inwashing powders, and house appliances stuff made out of weaker and worse material aka they break faster.

Getting back on topic,

it definitely seems that AoS is going to be the theme through the summer. We have to get through the releases that they've already teased/revealed, such as Admech, a new wave of Sisters models, and a bunch of things for Warhammer Underworlds, Titanicus, and other game systems besides.

On top of that, we are very much feeling the slow-down, both due to Covid and to the Memphis distribution center being shut down (major distribution for North America) during the winter storm a few weeks back.

Some are expecting AoS 3rd edition, since Broken Realms is pretty much Psychic Awakening for AoS. If that's coming, you can expect that to dominate the summer releases.

However, as 40k is still the 'bigger game', AoS new editions tend to be supplemented with other things. Last time, it was Imperial Knights and Kill Team that helped prop up their summer numbers while AoS 2nd edition came out. I'd expect something similar this year. It might not be kill team or imperial knights, but it'll be something 40k-related that GW expects to sell big.

VonGerrow wrote:

dhallnet wrote:

Yeah it might make sense in your world where everyone tries to scam everyone else but nobody would buy those items. There is a huge, i mean HUGE, collecting part taking place in "miniature gaming" (dunno how to coin this, I don't like the term "hobby").

I dunno man, plenty of people buy iPhones; they're well known to do exactly that. Same with a lot of the appliances on the market today, particularly washing machines and dryers.

Making worse products so people will buy them more often is a thing.

Karol wrote:
I mean I could say it is an eastern euro/asian thing. But Nike or Puma are western companies, and they design they stuff to break apart after a seson of wearing. With the materials they have they could make shoes and track suits that last for years, but then they would sell you one per 3 years. Better make a shoe that last 12 months, and sell you three in the same time. Tech stuff is made the same, specially the american apple stuff, their stuff breaks itself after a pre set time, that strangle coresponds with new products of the same line coming out. So yes it does make sense in a world where people try to scam other people, I agree, I just think that the everyone is a much larger number of people you may think it is.

Guys, nobody collects phones (even though, some people gives that impression) or biodegradable shoes. There is another value to miniatures than "function".

Edit: On second thoughts.. Nope.

On topic - If GW can make sprues for obscure Blood bowl/ Necromunda/ Whatever game. They darn well could have the capacity to make new aspects if they wanted to... Especialy as the designs are there ready for them.. They are infantry sized sprues. Not blimin knights..

Its not a capacity issue. Its purely a "unwillingness" issue. No idea why though..

 Mr. Grey wrote:

Your iPhone doesn't magically stop working and fall apart on you just because two newer versions have come out and it's a few years old, by the way. I used my 3GS from 2010 until roughly 2016, and while it was certainly struggling a bit in that last year or so, it was still usable for what I needed it for.

Tell me about it. I used my Samsung Note 3 from spring of '12 - March of '20. Friends were like "Does that thing even work anymore??"That answer was "Yes, mostly."

The only reasons I finally upgraded?
1) the coming of 5g
2) the charging plug was just plain wearing out.
3) My carrier informed me that come 2021 they'd no longer be supporting this model. Well, that'd be inconvenient....
I have to admit, got my $s worth out of my N3.

Hopefully I'm set for the next 8 years.

 Argive wrote:
Edit: On second thoughts.. Nope.

On topic - If GW can make sprues for obscure Blood bowl/ Necromunda/ Whatever game. They darn well could have the capacity to make new aspects if they wanted to... Especialy as the designs are there ready for them.. They are infantry sized sprues. Not blimin knights..

Its not a capacity issue. Its purely a "unwillingness" issue. No idea why though..

There are a dozen little reasons that Aspect Warriors haven't gotten big updates. I think a lot of it boils down to: Big Investment, Small Return.

6 separate Aspect Warrior infantry kits and 6 separate 'named' characters for a faction that doesn't sell a ton.

That's a lot of kits when you're not Space Marines.

drbored wrote:
...6 separate Aspect Warrior infantry kits and 6 separate 'named' characters for a faction that doesn't sell a ton...

You don't need six. Dual-kit Dark Reapers/Fire Dragons and Warp Spiders/Striking Scorpions (based on comparable poses/armour weights, swap heads/arms (and backpacks, for the Warp Spiders) and you're good to go), Dire Avengers are an easy dual-kit with updated Guardians, and Shining Spears are a small upgrade frame you stick in with the jetbike sprues.

drbored wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Edit: On second thoughts.. Nope.

On topic - If GW can make sprues for obscure Blood bowl/ Necromunda/ Whatever game. They darn well could have the capacity to make new aspects if they wanted to... Especialy as the designs are there ready for them.. They are infantry sized sprues. Not blimin knights..

Its not a capacity issue. Its purely a "unwillingness" issue. No idea why though..

There are a dozen little reasons that Aspect Warriors haven't gotten big updates. I think a lot of it boils down to: Big Investment, Small Return.

6 separate Aspect Warrior infantry kits and 6 separate 'named' characters for a faction that doesn't sell a ton.

That's a lot of kits when you're not Space Marines.

It would sell more than any of the AOS ranges they put out. It would sell more than their entire Necromunda range.

None of those are small investments.

Like, did you miss that they're bringing out more fantasy Elf models soon, bringing that faction to basically being the 2nd largest one in terms of plastic releases in AOS? That's a huge investment on a completely unproven idea. It doesn't matter than HE were one of the most popular factions in WHFB, Lumineth are far weirder than HE, with lots of bizarre and controversial design choices. Hell, just look at Idoneth too. Completely unproven and risky idea, at a time when the game they were made for was doing pure gak in terms of numbers. But they still made like 15-16 kits for this army. Are you honestly going to sit here and say that GW thought Idoneth were guaranteed to sell more than Space Marines? You think they've even come close to a fraction of what Marines have sold, 3 years later?

If we're going to keep up with this stupid point of view people continually repeat, then why are GW making anything but Space Marines? Like, absolutely it's been insane these past 3-4 years in terms of releases for them, but they have made plenty of other model ranges, pretty expansive ones too. Not just for 40K but their other systems too. Because, hey, guess what, a range can be profitable while not breaking sales records. Crazy idea I know but it's something GW realises.

Eldar are historically one of the most popular armies in the game. All of their past releases have sold incredibly well. The lack of real proper updates for a lot of their range is purely down to unwillingness and lack of passion within the studio, because we know a lot of what they make internally is what appeals to them.

If we're going to keep up with this stupid point of view people continually repeat, then why are GW making anything but Space Marines?

License stuff, people do buy some of them, the things are part of the historical setting of w40k etc.

But they still made like 15-16 kits for this army. Are you honestly going to sit here and say that GW thought Idoneth were guaranteed to sell more than Space Marines?

From what I understand about early AoS, GW very much wanted and started it with AoS marines, droped a ton of stuff for them, but it didn't stick well enough, so with money investment in to design of a new game they had no other options, but to try out doing other stuff, otherwise they would have to drop AoS too.

Eldar are historically one of the most popular armies in the game. All of their past releases have sold incredibly well. The lack of real proper updates for a lot of their range is purely down to unwillingness and lack of passion within the studio, because we know a lot of what they make internally is what appeals to them.

they are also historically insanely unfun to play against by the best selling army GW has, meaning no matter how well they sell, unless they somehow outsell marines long term, it is not worth to invest a lot of money in to them. Specially with eldar and other xeno players being very picky buyers. Marine stuff gets sold out, even if GW turns in to scalpers of their own boxs and up price parts of DI or Indomitus like crazy. Eldar box no so much. Same with AoS stuff, by the way, if the shield and sword slanesh guy was a marine primarch model he would be sold out in an instant, and you can still buy him from GW right now.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

drbored wrote:
...6 separate Aspect Warrior infantry kits and 6 separate 'named' characters for a faction that doesn't sell a ton...

You don't need six. Dual-kit Dark Reapers/Fire Dragons and Warp Spiders/Striking Scorpions (based on comparable poses/armour weights, swap heads/arms (and backpacks, for the Warp Spiders) and you're good to go),

I can't help but think that a combo Reaper/Dragon or Spider/Scorpion would look terrible.

Why only difference between reaper and dragon is helmet and head.

Spiders should probably be a separate kit, because to make them those large backpacks are needed. Who knows maybe GW should make a shoty scorpions/melee scorpions box, and a separate one for the spiders.

Karol wrote:
Why only difference between reaper and dragon is helmet and head.

And the armor (reapers are - or were {don't have an 8e dex} - the most heavily armored aspect), and the back pack, and the tabard, and the stance....
Reapers are my least favorite Aspect sculpt wise. So if a duel kit had to double as Reaper & Dragon? The result would probably end up not suiting me armor-wise, thus spoiling my favorite Aspect.

But that would require GW to make multiple kits for eldar. Kind of a hard to imagine them doing it without removing some of the aspects.

To me reapers and dragons look exactly the same as far as armour goes. the only difference is the weapons, and one having crested helmets and the other dudes having skulls instead of head. Not sure what the back pack is suppose to be because the fire dragon and dark reapers people use here don't have any. Could be recasters foult though, not wanting to make them.

Are the back packs spider sized or more like the ones avangers have?

For me at least a Banshee/Hawk, Spider/Scorpion, Dragon/Reaper cross would have been fine. But as said, I don't find "plastic aspect warriors" all that exciting unless they fundamentally altered the rules, so a 2nd/3rd edition style Foot-Dar Aspect Spam had some vague viability.

Not really convinced on CWE not selling, I'd say over any long-term basis they are probably the 2nd most popular faction after Marines. They wax and wane with their power - which in the last 25~ years has usually been high, aside from now, index 8th and I want to say late 5th. Certainly in 7th - which admittedly was not the best of times - Wraithknights and Scatbikes seemed to be everywhere. GW certainly got their money back on those.

Karol wrote:

If we're going to keep up with this stupid point of view people continually repeat, then why are GW making anything but Space Marines?

License stuff, people do buy some of them, the things are part of the historical setting of w40k etc.

But they still made like 15-16 kits for this army. Are you honestly going to sit here and say that GW thought Idoneth were guaranteed to sell more than Space Marines?

From what I understand about early AoS, GW very much wanted and started it with AoS marines, droped a ton of stuff for them, but it didn't stick well enough, so with money investment in to design of a new game they had no other options, but to try out doing other stuff, otherwise they would have to drop AoS too.

Eldar are historically one of the most popular armies in the game. All of their past releases have sold incredibly well. The lack of real proper updates for a lot of their range is purely down to unwillingness and lack of passion within the studio, because we know a lot of what they make internally is what appeals to them.

they are also historically insanely unfun to play against by the best selling army GW has, meaning no matter how well they sell, unless they somehow outsell marines long term, it is not worth to invest a lot of money in to them. Specially with eldar and other xeno players being very picky buyers. Marine stuff gets sold out, even if GW turns in to scalpers of their own boxs and up price parts of DI or Indomitus like crazy. Eldar box no so much. Same with AoS stuff, by the way, if the shield and sword slanesh guy was a marine primarch model he would be sold out in an instant, and you can still buy him from GW right now.

Eldar became a meme and GW knows it

If they make a good rewamp they will sell like there is no tomorow,
It will even be so easy to do a good marketing campaign just using "you had to wait 25 years and we finally did it)

 Bosskelot wrote:

Like, did you miss that they're bringing out more fantasy Elf models soon, bringing that faction to basically being the 2nd largest one in terms of plastic releases in AOS? That's a huge investment on a completely unproven idea. It doesn't matter than HE were one of the most popular factions in WHFB, Lumineth are far weirder than HE, with lots of bizarre and controversial design choices. Hell, just look at Idoneth too. Completely unproven and risky idea, at a time when the game they were made for was doing pure gak in terms of numbers. But they still made like 15-16 kits for this army. Are you honestly going to sit here and say that GW thought Idoneth were guaranteed to sell more than Space Marines? You think they've even come close to a fraction of what Marines have sold, 3 years later?

Nothing sells marine level. If you think GW expects that to release kit eldar are doomed. They will never sell even close to marine level...

tneva82 wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:

Like, did you miss that they're bringing out more fantasy Elf models soon, bringing that faction to basically being the 2nd largest one in terms of plastic releases in AOS? That's a huge investment on a completely unproven idea. It doesn't matter than HE were one of the most popular factions in WHFB, Lumineth are far weirder than HE, with lots of bizarre and controversial design choices. Hell, just look at Idoneth too. Completely unproven and risky idea, at a time when the game they were made for was doing pure gak in terms of numbers. But they still made like 15-16 kits for this army. Are you honestly going to sit here and say that GW thought Idoneth were guaranteed to sell more than Space Marines? You think they've even come close to a fraction of what Marines have sold, 3 years later?

Nothing sells marine level. If you think GW expects that to release kit eldar are doomed. They will never sell even close to marine level...

Its not about selling, its about to keep player engaged and have some variety, hell its literally the reason why aos its growing so much, variety, TON of different release, and local with different armies,
You think all the eldar/xeno players will give up and buy marines? no, they will buy from the likes of artel W or go for different games
At some point even marine players will be tired to the costant releases

Hell 7/10 people at my local play SM, its not fun anymore

You think that marine players are not engaged in to playing their armies? Or custodes or harlis or demons or orks, and all the other armies that don't happen to have a 30% win rate?

Marines releases are diverse, because the armies play different, they are build with different units and have different rules, enough for people to not feel as if they were playing the same thing over and over again.

And if marine players didn't get tired buying stuff for 30 years, they are not going to get tired in the future. It is like saying that we just have to wait and anytime soon people will get tired of football and curling will people just as popular too.

I think people are overlooking a very simple truth: Elves in general sell and they sell well.

Sure, they might not sell at Space Marine levels, but they sell enough that we have numerous 3rd party studios making their own versions to sell. The three most common 3rd party sellers are Marines, Orcs, and Elves. These are three factions that just generally sell well.

Currently we have Artel W outpacing GW Space Elf releases and they have been expanding it enough that one has to assume that they are selling quite well. That means GW is actively ignoring a market they could do well in and giving it to third party releases. I mean, at this point I will be ordering Artel W stuff because GW isn't providing me with anything that I haven't bought ten times over.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:
You think that marine players are not engaged in to playing their armies? Or custodes or harlis or demons or orks, and all the other armies that don't happen to have a 30% win rate?

I think you misunderstood their point completely.

I've actually experienced a bit of exodus into AoS as of late. People who don't play marines will get tired of the endless deluge of marines and look elsewhere. Not everyone signed up to play Horus Heresy back in 1998(or whenever people started) when they started playing 40k.

And? I don't remember people playing not marines asking for their armies to be changed and nerfed so marine players, who make the majority of all players, should have fun too. In fact the arguments used back then were along the line of , not everyone plays the good stuff, learn to play, pick the right army and Gulliman lists are powerful.

W40k right now has more people having fun, then it had in 9th ed. There is more armies to be played, in different ways and even when it is bad to be forced to buy two books to play one army. Everything else seems fine, for everyone else, but the armies that have bad rule sets. And I don't know why, maybe because eldar and tau players aren't used to having bad rules, this seems to be a huge problem. My dudes were bad practicaly all of 8th ed, and from what I was told, they were bad in 7th and 6th ed too. Eldar or tau have not been bad even a whole edition, they don't even have a 9th ed book.

I would get this all if the first book in 9th was eldar, it was a copy past of the 8th ed book, with no real changes, and then was followed by all the good marine, necron and DG releases. I would get being unhappy, 3 years of bad rules is not fun. But this is not the case, neither of the armies got a 9th update.

I think people are overlooking a very simple truth: Elves in general sell and they sell well.

It is hard to sell bad, when you have very good rules.

I love my space wolves, but I've definitely put them on the backburner right now as a lot of folks in my club play Marines ATM.

 jaredb wrote:
I love my space wolves, but I've definitely put them on the backburner right now as a lot of folks in my club play Marines ATM.

I have Dark Angels. Parked them into my basement as I just don't want to be "yet another Space Marine player".

 Eldarsif wrote:

 jaredb wrote:
I love my space wolves, but I've definitely put them on the backburner right now as a lot of folks in my club play Marines ATM.

I have Dark Angels. Parked them into my basement as I just don't want to be "yet another Space Marine player".

You are doing god's work

Back in topic, the fact that gets me the most is that i am closed in a limbo where i competly dont know where gw is going, there is no road map, no date, no "in 2021 we will fix eldar" and this is so unprofessional if you ask me

How i can keep putting my time in a game where i just play vs SM and see only SM release and the faction that i love and invested my money into is used only for making SM character look cool? Ynnari was pratically written just to ress bobby g lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jaredb wrote:
I love my space wolves, but I've definitely put them on the backburner right now as a lot of folks in my club play Marines ATM.

This is literally the reason most people in my club switched to aos, more variety, and the rest its getting tired to play mirror matches and you see them slowly burning out, and DE codex wont change this

maybe its a GW Tzeetch like plan to make people buy aos llol

This is literally the reason most people in my club switched to aos, more variety, and the rest its getting tired to play mirror matches and you see them slowly burning out, and DE codex wont change this

At my last tournament 6 out of 10 players were Space marine players. Then one Death Guard and one Custodes. The rest was Necrons and Tau. Even with the new Drukhari codex I also don't foresee much diversification(at least I can play my space elves again).

Regarding plastic Aspects, one way to mitigate risk is to use your minigames. Afraid you won't sell enough Aspect Warriors for 40k? Build a Kill Team expansion to detail the Aeldari civil war/ Ynarri sub-plot. Then release another 40k Warhammer Quest game set in Commorragh.

People have mentioned the exodus to AoS; I gotta tell you, Cursed City, Direchasm and Warcry are a big part of that too. BSF and KT (while it was still getting things like the Kellermorph and Manipulus) where a big part of why I loved 8th. GW seems to have forgotten how important that synergy is.

And if they dropped 6 boxes of plastic Aspects with decent rules and space marine prices, they'd sell out prerelease weekend. And they'd continue to sell fast enough that it would be hard to keep them in stock for the first year. I like Artel's Aeldari substitutes. But I would forget all about them if GW just got off the pot.

And I think GW knows this to be true. Eldar players of almost all stripes are as hungry as Sisters players were in 8th, and that hunger translated into fat stacks of cash. But so much is needed for CWE/DE that they almost need a boxed set to help them deliver it. And maybe GW is just waiting for the dust to settle on their other boxed sets before taking that leap.

They really missed an opportunity with the DE half of Piety and Pain- had they created new sculpts for Bloodbrides and thrown them in the box with Lelith, they'd have been further ahead. I mean, it's already going to sell well because the Sisters half of the box is pure gold... But they could have taken it farther.

I like Artel's Aeldari substitutes. But I would forget all about them if GW just got off the pot.

I think a lot of people are in the same boat. Give them official minis from GW, and they'd snap them up. It's the lack of anything official from Games Workshop that IMO drives a lot of third-party sales.

drbored wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Edit: On second thoughts.. Nope.

On topic - If GW can make sprues for obscure Blood bowl/ Necromunda/ Whatever game. They darn well could have the capacity to make new aspects if they wanted to... Especialy as the designs are there ready for them.. They are infantry sized sprues. Not blimin knights..

Its not a capacity issue. Its purely a "unwillingness" issue. No idea why though..

There are a dozen little reasons that Aspect Warriors haven't gotten big updates. I think a lot of it boils down to: Big Investment, Small Return.

6 separate Aspect Warrior infantry kits and 6 separate 'named' characters for a faction that doesn't sell a ton.

That's a lot of kits when you're not Space Marines.

How can you sell something that doesn't exist??

 Argive wrote:


How can you sell something that doesn't exist??

Well GW has their sites and their sells to stores, they more or less know how much of what stuff, and how fast they sell. Do you think that without a legion of people asking for SoB, they would have re launched the line?
To make an example, to update my army to be good, they would have to add primaris to them, but that would require remaking every unit in my codex with a specific GK only primaris unit. They know the sells for GK, and they know it just would be too much of a risk to invest in to them. And primaris GK wouldn't even be in such a limited market place as eldar. Other marine players could still buy GK primaris to get parts and bits for their models. With eldar, if you make new models for them, you are selling them only for eldar players. Unless you somehow make it possible for harlis and DE to be able to take them too. But it is still a much smaller market then each space marine faction combined.

Karol wrote:
But that would require GW to make multiple kits for eldar. Kind of a hard to imagine them doing it without removing some of the aspects.

To me reapers and dragons look exactly the same as far as armour goes. the only difference is the weapons, and one having crested helmets and the other dudes having skulls instead of head. Not sure what the back pack is suppose to be because the fire dragon and dark reapers people use here don't have any. Could be recasters foult though, not wanting to make them.

Are the back packs spider sized or more like the ones avangers have?

then why do space marines not only have one kit that can be built into any of their units?

Biggest differences between DR and FD are : head, weapons, tabards.
Smaller differences : Dark reapers have bigger armor plates, skull iconography and different backs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:

Well GW has their sites and their sells to stores, they more or less know how much of what stuff, and how fast they sell. Do you think that without a legion of people asking for SoB, they would have re launched the line?

? Because you think Eldar players aren't asking for plastic models (at the very least). feth, we're not even asking for NEW units, just updates so that our 20 year old sculpts look like they belong in the game.

Karol wrote:

To make an example, to update my army to be good, they would have to add primaris to them, but that would require remaking every unit in my codex with a specific GK only primaris unit. They know the sells for GK, and they know it just would be too much of a risk to invest in to them. And primaris GK wouldn't even be in such a limited market place as eldar. Other marine players could still buy GK primaris to get parts and bits for their models. With eldar, if you make new models for them, you are selling them only for eldar players. Unless you somehow make it possible for harlis and DE to be able to take them too. But it is still a much smaller market then each space marine faction combined.

theres plenty of ways to make GK good without just slapping Primaris on everything... GW lack of creativity is to blame here.

Karol wrote:

 Argive wrote:


How can you sell something that doesn't exist??

Well GW has their sites and their sells to stores, they more or less know how much of what stuff, and how fast they sell. Do you think that without a legion of people asking for SoB, they would have re launched the line?
To make an example, to update my army to be good, they would have to add primaris to them, but that would require remaking every unit in my codex with a specific GK only primaris unit. They know the sells for GK, and they know it just would be too much of a risk to invest in to them. And primaris GK wouldn't even be in such a limited market place as eldar. Other marine players could still buy GK primaris to get parts and bits for their models. With eldar, if you make new models for them, you are selling them only for eldar players. Unless you somehow make it possible for harlis and DE to be able to take them too. But it is still a much smaller market then each space marine faction combined.

There are tons of players asking for Eldar models and SoB players were asking since way before GW eventually caved in.

Your logic also creates an unsolvable problem :
Existing Eldar players have nothing to buy as nothing is released.
New players aren't interested in Eldar, because the range is too old.
Thus we don't make model, thus nothing sells.

Looks like a good strategy. Maybe they should stop releasing armies out of nowhere for that other game they have. Or stop releasing "mini games". Because you know "ThERe Is No eXiSTinG MarKEt".
Just sell marines. Always, forever.

Also, DE & Harlies can already use CWE units if they want to, no tweaks are needed.

I mean the "doesn't sell" train of thought I just dont buy..

Any given 40k faction in my opinion would outsell any of the offshoot specialist games if new models are released. Notwithstanding CWE. The investment to make those sprues is not more for 40k.. Its not like they have to pay themselves Licence fees to make the models.....

then why do space marines not only have one kit that can be built into any of their units?

Biggest differences between DR and FD are : head, weapons, tabards.
Smaller differences : Dark reapers have bigger armor plates, skull iconography and different backs.

Oh that is easy. Just because they sell more boxs, doesn't mean that GW wants to sell them for cheap and not make money. I mean just look at the honored of the chapter box. It is ment for places like my country, where getting an indomitus box was not easy. The new box has scalping level of price attached to it.

GW doesn't make one Lt for all marines, because SW/DA/BA etc Lt will sell. Low investment from them, big mark up, and still people may buy let say the salamander upgrade sprue because they want a specific looking thunder hammer.

Plus technicaly they do have double kits. The reaver box lets you make regular reavers and the anti psyker SW ones. And the intercessor box lets you make intercessors and the BA death company, and veteran intercessors.

There are tons of players asking for Eldar models and SoB players were asking since way before GW eventually caved in.

Well I can tell you that there probably isn't a single GK player in the world who is sitting right now thinking that GK codex should not have been updated in 8th or in 9th. The thing is that GW weights the numbers, and it seems like they weighted armies like Ad mecha, SoB etc and decided that it would make them more money, if they updated those armies first. And don't even for a second thing that that, if an eldar updated wasn't making them more money, they would st make orcs and necron, before eldar. All comes down to making GW money. And I don't see this is as bad thing.

Existing Eldar players have nothing to buy as nothing is released.
New players aren't interested in Eldar, because the range is too old.
Thus we don't make model, thus nothing sells.

well the thing is they do buy stuff. 8th starts and they buy resin dark reapers, the flyers etc. It is not like I don't know GK, where probably the majority of GK playing longer then an edition, have a set of termintors and power armoured dude and really have nothing to buy. If GW made an errata/faq tomorrow that makes swooping hawks the unit of 9th ed doom, eldar players would be buying the recasts and the resin versions from GW.

But yeah I agree it is not a fun place to be in, when GW decides that giving you 1-2 characters and 1-2 units is enough per new codex.

Also, DE & Harlies can already use CWE units if they want to, no tweaks are needed.

yes I am aware that cwe+harli two battalion armies are doing rather well. Still doesn't change the fact that it is not optimal. For tournaments it may work, but every DE players is going to want to stack up on eldar or harli units. But who knows I could be wrong on that, and eldar players of any kinds do not have such problems. I know that marine players were not happy about being forced to run the loyal 32, and a lot didn't.

? Because you think Eldar players aren't asking for plastic models (at the very least). feth, we're not even asking for NEW units, just updates so that our 20 year old sculpts look like they belong in the game.

Oh I know they are asking. As I said GK players ask for new rules too, from what I understand for a few editions. But if GW thinks that investing in to making plastic eldar models right now, is not going to make them the money they want, comparing to the state the eldar are in right now, then they are not going to do it. This is simple question of money generation. Eldar get good rules, and this makes them sell any model , no matter how bad looking or old. Although I must say I don't think the eldar models look bad, comparing to stuff like khorn berzerkers or some of the IG stuff. Problems start of course, when they don't have good rules. It doesn't seem to be a thing that happens often though.

theres plenty of ways to make GK good without just slapping Primaris on everything... GW lack of creativity is to blame here.

well I am uncreative as it gets, so I am not going to judge them. What I do know is that GW operates on the no model, no new rules paradigma , and that they do try to focus on new models for marines. And if something of the old stuff get broken good, like dreads in 8th or van vets in 9th, it is not really a planed thing, and more like a copy paste related buff.

GW just put a ton of support into a big Necron revamp. Tons and tons of updated and new kits.
A huge investment.
And that's for Necrons, an army that would never sell anything near Space Marines level.

But from all accounts they are selling a crap ton of Necrons now.

Are people really telling me if GW put a similar investment into Eldar, they also wouldn't get a massive surge of new and existing players buying their models?

If Necrons sold like crazy and Sisters sold like crazy before them, I have zero doubt in my mind Craftworld Eldar would sell tons too.

People are hungry, the demand is there.
Hell there is so much demand a third party seller is making more and more of their own off-brand Eldar every day.

For all the gak GW is getting, they really did revive a lot of things that people were craving for and absolutely did not expect:

- Necromunda
- Sororitas
- Genestealer Cults
- Gulliman
- Warhammer TOW
- Zoats
- Ambulls

Heck, at this stage nothing is off limits (except Squats), so Eldar of all factions are certainly not unlikely to be remade. Jain Zar and Banshees aren't even that old, so there must be some sort of plan for them, even if it's a rebranding into Ynarii.

 BertBert wrote:
For all the gak GW is getting, they really did revive a lot of things that people were craving for and absolutely did not expect:

- Necromunda
- Sororitas
- Genestealer Cults
- Gulliman
- Warhammer TOW
- Zoats
- Ambulls

Heck, at this stage nothing is off limits (except Squats), so Eldar of all factions are certainly not unlikely to be remade. Jain Zar and Banshees aren't even that old, so there must be some sort of plan for them, even if it's a rebranding into Ynarii.

Except they ALSO revived squats (there's one (1) in Necromunda).

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

Except they ALSO revived squats (there's one (1) in Necromunda).

Two !

Karol wrote:

then why do space marines not only have one kit that can be built into any of their units?

Biggest differences between DR and FD are : head, weapons, tabards.
Smaller differences : Dark reapers have bigger armor plates, skull iconography and different backs.

Oh that is easy. Just because they sell more boxs, doesn't mean that GW wants to sell them for cheap and not make money. I mean just look at the honored of the chapter box. It is ment for places like my country, where getting an indomitus box was not easy. The new box has scalping level of price attached to it.

I don't know what Polish list prices are on this kit, but I doubt that.
You get 3 Eradicators (no MM/heavy options) - the stand alone kit lists for $50 USA (with MM & heavy gun options) - how do you value those extra bitz?
You get 3 Blade Guard - stand alone kit lists for $50 USA
You get 4 characters - new plastic characters go for what, $30/$35 apiece here in the USA?
Looks like if I could buy all these as single releases I'd pay at least $170 + $40ish(? for the eradicators) - so around $210+
Or I could buy this set from GW now for $140

Of course EBay etc is a thing & I could get this stuff cheaper....

You don't compare the price of the kits that came from a sealed box to the price of single models, you can't even buy.

The honored of the chapter box costs 140$ here. While indomitus costed 199$. Those are scalper level prices. the 3 heroes from ID and 5 intercessors are just as crazy priced.

And here they don't go for anything, because GW sent too few of the boxs to create a big enough secondary market.

Europe/UK should be a large enough secondary market. You are located in Poland, right?

Yes. Two things though. Postal cost, stuff gettting "lost" when it comes from germany, and some units being wanted in all of europe meaning people first sell the to people localy. Here it created a wierd meta, with people going vanvet spam and mass attack bikes, months before everyone else, and before the changes to salamanders and eradictors.

It was fun though, reading about how blade guard and eradictors are ruining the game, and not needing to play against them. Of course later I had to find out that what we localy had wasn't much better. But that is a separate thing.

I would love to know the breakdown of how much GW sells outside of the UK/NA markets, and what demonstable affect Brexit has had on their ability to make a profit. Because they aren't getting tagged with the tax, the brick and mortar seller is getting hit with the duty fees. It's a frequent tale of Brexit that the big corporations are doing great, and the small mom-pop brick and mortars are facing 300% markups on everything that comes across the pond.

Karol wrote:
Yes.

I generally buy characters or single units from boxsets seperately. On eBay, you'll find sellers from all over Europe with reasonable shipping cost.
It's usually between 0€ (France) to around 8€ (UK) for Germany, so I don't expect it to explode for Poland.

Look, the problem has always been that GW designs in reverse. It SHOULD be that the miniature team designs models the rules team wants to add/update. Instead they've all but confirmed it works the other way around. The miniatures team comes up with the model and throws it to the rules team to fit in. That's why you frequently see redesigned kits with brand new oddball options that didn't exist before; someone in the model team thought it looked cool and the rules team now needs to account for it. It's never been indicated what, if any, input the rules team has but it's seemingly little to none.

So for new aspects the miniature team would need to see it as worth doing, however they decide that (this hadn't been said as far as I know), and then design the kits how they see fit.

Which is why you got garbage like the Wraithknight when the range is the oldest in the game.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
For all the gak GW is getting, they really did revive a lot of things that people were craving for and absolutely did not expect:

- Necromunda
- Sororitas
- Genestealer Cults
- Gulliman
- Warhammer TOW
- Zoats
- Ambulls

Heck, at this stage nothing is off limits (except Squats), so Eldar of all factions are certainly not unlikely to be remade. Jain Zar and Banshees aren't even that old, so there must be some sort of plan for them, even if it's a rebranding into Ynarii.

Except they ALSO revived squats (there's one (1) in Necromunda).

except they also removed lost& the damned in any form or capacity, you know you basic general chaos representation?
They yeeted corsairs.
They decided IG doesn't need to be able to represent drop troops despite IG requireing such a count as to represent IG operations without marine support, something actually quite important technically aswell

i mean yes they did good with GSC and TOW has potential but there's no reason to not be sceptical aswell.

I think Corsairs and Lost and the Damned were removed because GW is going to make real factions that fill that space.

It's unfortunate that a) they didn't leave something functional in place until we get the new stuff and b) that we can't guarantee we're going to like what we get as much as what we lost.

Because I don't think they will be called Lost and the Damned and Corsairs. I think they're going to be Traitor Guard and Ynarri. So I know, it's not going to be exactly the same, and if you played LatD or Corsairs and loved them, you have my genuine sympathy, but there will be something that GW releases to try to fill the design space.

And it isn't that GW doesn't think there should be a way to represent drop troops. It's just that GW thinks that army should be Tempestus Scions. I liked Elysians better too, but only because of the six wheeled buggy- damn that model was awesome- and it could be carried by that FW Valkyrie variant.

I think that Eldar of all stripes are going to get a big release before the end of the edition. The CWE will be the biggest piece of that update, but they won't be alone.

GW has to get the dexes out. If it wasn't for the Brexit/ Covid double whammy, we'd be at least three more dexes ahead than we are.

PenitentJake wrote:
I like Artel's Aeldari substitutes. But I would forget all about them if GW just got off the pot

I bought their 'Archon', it had good detail and quality, but the scale is off for using with GW stuff.

PenitentJake wrote:
I think Corsairs and Lost and the Damned were removed because GW is going to make real factions that fill that space.

The Corsairs were removed, as the line didn't have models for most of it's datasheets. The only rules they had going into 8th edition, were for those datasheets with actual models.

I was surprised to see the Traitor Guard loose matched play rules/ model line disappear, but I guess they must not have sold well enough to keep in production and then with no model line, no rules=no models. I wouldn't be too surprised to see something happen with Traitor Guard with GW proper, even if it's a Brood-Brothers like treatment where you replace the <Regiment> with <Traitor Guard>, and <Imperium> to <Chaos>. That'd make the most sense to me.

I'm a big fan of the Ynnari models and Lore, and would love to see more fleshing out of that faction 100%

Fully expecting that we will be seeing a World Eaters/Word Bearers Codex Supplement in this expansion, along with Angron and Lorgar.

I doubt IG will get a relaunch soon as they are still retiring the Catachan line, whilst pushing the Tempestus aka: Primaris Guardsmen.

 Slayer6 wrote:
...Tempestus aka: Primaris Guardsmen.

...Tempestus launched back in 6e when GW still though that mini-dexes were a good idea. IIRC, neither IG nor Tempestus have received any releases since (barring a couple of one-off characters for IG, but that hardly counts).

 waefre_1 wrote:

 Slayer6 wrote:
...Tempestus aka: Primaris Guardsmen.

...Tempestus launched back in 6e when GW still though that mini-dexes were a good idea. IIRC, neither IG nor Tempestus have received any releases since (barring a couple of one-off characters for IG, but that hardly counts).

So if those don't count, why do one off SM releases count when bitching about endless astartes releases?

 Slayer6 wrote:
Fully expecting that we will be seeing a World Eaters/Word Bearers Codex Supplement in this expansion, along with Angron and Lorgar.

I doubt IG will get a relaunch soon as they are still retiring the Catachan line, whilst pushing the Tempestus aka: Primaris Guardsmen.

That's a very odd take on storm troopers. Beyond modern funky mislabeling, they've been part of the IG army for decades and have their own role in the codex. They're not replacing guardsmen kits nor do they function in the same fashion.

Not sure what you mean by 'still retiring Catachans'. They're not being retired. They've actually gotten a number of one off models, more than any other regiment has gotten for decades.

Chaos legions are very unlikely to get supplements. If they get anything, they'll get a freestanding codex with little from the main chaos codex, like death guard. And I'm confused as to why you'd pick that particular combination of legions. The most they have in common is being primarily red.

Yeah, it's far more likely IMO that Catachans will get new kits and be the new Guardsmen poster boys.

I would not be surprised if they cleared out the Cadian models whilst replacing the Catachan ones.

 Slayer6 wrote:
Fully expecting that we will be seeing a World Eaters/Word Bearers Codex Supplement in this expansion, along with Angron and Lorgar.

I doubt IG will get a relaunch soon as they are still retiring the Catachan line, whilst pushing the Tempestus aka: Primaris Guardsmen.

World Eaters I can see... Word bearers though? Honestly I think just giving 3.5 dex style options to make your own cult terminators/power armor/bikes etc. would have been infinitely cooler and more manageable than several supplements... and more satisfying for the fanbase. It's not really economical right now to try to shove several books down chaos player's throats. I guess it does bear the distinct advantage of also being able to crank out several model releases spread out over a bunch of supplements...

There's money in separate chaos codexes if only to try to force people with existing collections that are mixed legion to buy new stuff to turn those armies into single-Legion forces. But I doubt GW would do more than one per edition, that'd cannibalize sales from one another.

I expect CSM to get some kind of supplement treatment, just to sell more books. Maybe not a supplement per Legion like loyalists, but possibly sticking the Legion specific stuff in something like Traitor Legions or Faith and Fury. They're already spreading rules around for several factions in the Warzone Charodon book.

I'm afraid that I foresee the next big army release with major miniature support being the Primarisisation of the Grey Knights.

i really hope this sunday we will get a new roadmap so we will know where we are going

I'm confident we'll see the next Codex - if we're lucky, we might get the next three.

Anyone like me who has been playing since 4th ed knows any CW kite GW produces will sell like crazy.
As someone said here, the n°1 drive behind kit production is "inspiration from the design studio".

Not very pro surely, but GW has repeated many times this (to what extent is it really is debatable).
So I think until the design studio is inspired, suck it eldar fans ! (more seriously, I am sorry for you as IMHO Eldar is an iconic faction who really deserves some love at this point)

 addnid wrote:
Anyone like me who has been playing since 4th ed knows any CW kite GW produces will sell like crazy.
As someone said here, the n°1 drive behind kit production is "inspiration from the design studio".

Not very pro surely, but GW has repeated many times this (to what extent is it really is debatable).
So I think until the design studio is inspired, suck it eldar fans ! (more seriously, I am sorry for you as IMHO Eldar is an iconic faction who really deserves some love at this point)

Sorry but i cant really believe that all this SM release schedule was created by "inspiration"

Hell with ynnari you can have only wondefull and cool ideas for new models and here we are