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No idea where w going but the utter lack of any DE info does not bode well at all.. I think we can sort of all see it now.

The March 20 release will be interesting. If DE get anything other than Lelith, who will be locked into the Piety and Pain box, it'll drop that weekend along with the Dex and box.

But if DE isn't getting anything else, that's a sparse release; they've got to pair it with something.

It could be the Heavy Intercessors box. It could be the Book of Rust Campaign book; it could be the Charadon Crusade Mission pack. The Palatine is locked to Piety and pain just like Lelith, so it won't be her... But we have seen the Paragon Warsuit, so that's another possibility.

Because of Piety and Pain, I'd suspect April for the Sisters dex, and if the Paragon doesn't come with Piety and Pain, she'll drop with the dex instead.

As mentioned, Admech and Orks both have models coming that we've seen in previews and both feature in the Book of Rust and the Charadon Crusade Mission Pack. Kights might have a model release timed with Admech too, as any new Knight could appear in both dexes, and Knights are also part of the Charadon stuff.

GW has actually given us a vague roadmap... It's just one you have to put together from a bunch of clues that have been spread over months. I too prefer more direct marketing, but as others have said, the Covid + Brexit double whammy has really hit us in the hobby.

The good news is that once the Brexit and Covid kinks are worked out, there will be an economic recovery boom that will make the 1920's look like.... Well, the 1920's.

GW will definitely be looking to be a part of that boom.

We are going to have to wait and see. 9th edition released at really unfortunate timing. Indomitus was delayed by two months due to lockdown which affected every 40k release thereafter. Normally you could make some adjustments in release schedule but all new edition hype was built on Indomitus. Now we have brexit with 2D6 weeks delivery time and it's very difficult to enjoy new releases in time. I am going to visit my FLGS tomorrow to see if they have finally received their Death Guard and Dark Angels orders...

The consistent rumour is that because of Covid, Codex releases with substantial model releases have been moved around and pushed back. This is partly to ease the strain on production but also GW not wanting to potentially hurt sales of new models in their biggest game.

With that Ork collectible coin floating around right now and the numerous Orkish rumour engines we've had, its likely Orks were supposed to be out sooner but have been majorly delayed.

Regardless of what comes out, AoS and 40k don't share release days and due to Covid effecting releases gw has moved to a big release every two weeks, instead of every week, so we are going to see the release schedule we are used to slowed by half. It's already been evident in February, with some filler release weeks between 40k/AoS release weeks.

I'm pretty sure admech will be the next book following Sisters, due to the factions in the Campaign book they announced months ago.

After that, I just hope it's releases for my armies

hot take: old models don't matter. Many of the sculpts are timeless and great representations of the army.

old rules DO matter, because they make armies abject failures.

GW sales have performed quite well during the pandemic. They need to release the codex for 9th edition 40k if they want a competitive and balanced game (which is of course a low priority for them).

The kill team pariah nexus box is the smoking gun in all of this.

 Ghaz wrote:
From 'The Sunday Preview – News From the Front' on Warhammer Community:

There are loads more to come in 2021 – of that you can be sure – and our goal is to make sure that hobbyists around the world can get their hands on the latest Warhammer within a similar timeframe. Global events certainly make this challenging right now, but by moving the release dates of certain products in our schedule, we can make it more likely that everyone can enjoy the latest models, books, and games together.

I read that as they're not sure what they're release schedule is going to be as it's still in flux.

I understand the confusion. For me I read as though their trying to plan for every scenario or the worst possible scenario in which easing Lockdown backfires and infection rates spike up again, and the potential for another lockdown.

Well, todays Sunday preview has revealed that tomorrow's "New Model Monday" will be Belakor. Cool and all- I like Belakor, but that leaves only one more week for a DE surprise; it was always a longshot... But now it's a longer shot.

Cursed City in the previews again- maybe we get a release date on that.

And the Book of Rust, which pretty much confirms it is the thing that will preorder with DE to round out the release.

So March 20, I expect the DE dex, the DE Combat Patrol set, Piety and Pain, the Book of rust, and that's it.

Sisters Dex in April with the Paragon Warsuit and the Charadon Crusade Mission Pack.

Heavy Intercessor solo box between the two.

I'm now baffled by the idea that War Zone Chacha is going to beat out the codexes of half the factions that are in it. (It specifically has 'new rules' for DG, Dark Eldar, Ad Mech and Imp. Knights per its first and only preview)

Those'll be fun FAQs.

So March 20, I expect the DE dex, the DE Combat Patrol set, Piety and Pain, the Book of rust, and that's it.

I expect no more than half of that. And it might be another week. At some point the lizard underworlds team needs to happen too.

Voss wrote:
I'm now baffled by the idea that War Zone Chacha is going to beat out the codexes of half the factions that are in it. (It specifically has 'new rules' for DG, Dark Eldar, Ad Mech and Imp. Knights per its first and only preview)

Campaign rules. Nothing that really affects pickup/tournament games.

I understand everything is fluid at the moment with covid and I suppose plans can change on a whim as part of that, however... We didn't have a single 40k codex in February, and it looks like we aren't getting another until at least the end half of March now... I suppose all that money they have spent on AoS and the need to start recouping those costs are a priority that is affecting 40k as I was sure they would have maintained their one codex a month at least schedule, guess I was very wrong about that assumption.

I know it wouldn't be popular with many but lumineth really could have been kicked into the turf for 12 months and they should have focussed on getting their premier system up to date in my opinion.

Counter argument to that I suppose is, if they figure there aren't many games being played right now, then rules aren't a priority.

PenitentJake wrote:
Well, todays Sunday preview has revealed that tomorrow's "New Model Monday" will be Belakor. Cool and all- I like Belakor, but that leaves only one more week for a DE surprise; it was always a longshot... But now it's a longer shot.

Dark Eldar will get bugger-all because no one on the GW design team gives the slightest crap about them.

They're NPC faction #68351. Probably not worthy of fighting Marines but might be just about sufficient for Sisters of Battle to kill.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:
I'm now baffled by the idea that War Zone Chacha is going to beat out the codexes of half the factions that are in it. (It specifically has 'new rules' for DG, Dark Eldar, Ad Mech and Imp. Knights per its first and only preview)

Campaign rules. Nothing that really affects pickup/tournament games.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/21/warhammer-preview-online-decadence-decay/
Not from the context:

There’s more than just the background of an epic war zone in here, the book also includes new rules for:

Death Guard
Adeptus Mechanicus
Imperial Knights
Drukhari
The warriors of Commorragh are keen to take advantage of the chaos and confusion caused by Typhus’ invasion. Alongside these codex supplements are rules for playing through the Charadon campaign yourself.

Codex supplements AND campaign rules.

Voss wrote:

Codex supplements AND campaign rules.

Hopefully these are a preview for the Codex, and not just one off soon to be outdated campaign only supplements.

I wonder also whether this is a sign of where G W is going with releasing War Zones that might have more campaign rules. Maybe what they are going for is Crusade rules for each campaign?

I thought the supplement rules were only going to be crusade rules... I thought I read that somewhere back when 9th edition was launching.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
We didn't have a single 40k codex in February,

Your not counting DA for some reason?

Iracundus wrote:

Voss wrote:
Alongside these codex supplements are rules for playing through the Charadon campaign yourself.

Codex supplements AND campaign rules.

Hopefully these are a preview for the Codex, and not just one off soon to be outdated campaign only supplements.

Well, since 2 of 4 listed either just had a codex (death guard), or have one coming 'Soon' (tm) [Dark Eldar], obviously not.

ccs wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
We didn't have a single 40k codex in February,

Your not counting DA for some reason?

I mean, he's technically right - their book was a Codex Supplement, not a Codex.

Voss wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

Voss wrote:
Alongside these codex supplements are rules for playing through the Charadon campaign yourself.

Codex supplements AND campaign rules.

Hopefully these are a preview for the Codex, and not just one off soon to be outdated campaign only supplements.

Well, since 2 of 4 listed either just had a codex (death guard), or have one coming 'Soon' (tm) [Dark Eldar], obviously not.

Well obviously not a preview for the Death Guard, but it could still be a preview of the Dark Eldar.

There were two in February.

Daughters of Khaine and Slaanesh, the latter of which came with a good chunk of new models as well.

On top of them probably not being at full capacity due to lockdowns, their shipping courrier is experiencing huge delays, probably due to Brexit and the new way stuff has to go through customs. February releases have hardly reached customers yet and so I guess they are taking that into account, shifting everything a bit further down the year while creating stocks closer to their customers, so when they release products they are actually available and not transiting in courrier for weeks.
So I guess we aren't going very far until either they sort it out with temporary warehouse or which ever company manages their shipping sort it out itself.

 Dysartes wrote:

ccs wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
We didn't have a single 40k codex in February,

Your not counting DA for some reason?

I mean, he's technically right - their book was a Codex Supplement, not a Codex.

Semantics.

For all of you who seem to think the preorder date for the DE dex hasn't been set, it has. At the tag end of the phone-in fluff article about ways to die in Commorragh, the release date was formally announced: it's March 20th.

Warcom has made some egregious mistakes regarding rules and box contents, but I don't think they've flubbed a release date yet. But barring a Warcom error, we can all stop wringing our hands and saying it might be later.

As for the other parts of my speculation... well, you got me there. It IS speculation. Nothing has SAID officially that Piety and Pain is dropping with the dex; there's a chance it won't. I'd say it's a slim chance, but it's there.

The Book of Rust might not drop with it either; weird that they'd be previewing this week if it didn't... But again, possible.

As for Sisters: despite their inclusion in Piety and Pain, I'm beginning to think we won't see their dex until later; I think folks make a pretty reasonable argument that Admech and/or Knights will be next due to Charadon. Sisters aren't in the Book of Rust; their piece of the campaign will likely be in bespoke engagements with the DE, as depicted in Piety and Pain. Like Blood of the Phoenix or Tooth and Claw, it will include a little campaign booklet.

And speaking of Charadon, let me clear something else up: the Book of Rust is a campaign book that contains rules, missions and lore. Its closest analogue is Vigilus; infact, the two are so similar, I wouldn't be surprised if Charadon ends up being a two parter like Vigilus was.

In addition to the Book of Rust, they are also releasing another coil-bound Mission Pack specifically for Crusade.; its closest analogue is Beyond the Veil.

It stands to reason that the Mission Pack may come later in the release cycle than the campaign book- after all, a Crusade Mission Pack is going to work best for a faction that has bespoke Crusade content to support it.

Iracundus wrote:

Voss wrote:

Iracundus wrote:

Voss wrote:
Alongside these codex supplements are rules for playing through the Charadon campaign yourself.

Codex supplements AND campaign rules.

Hopefully these are a preview for the Codex, and not just one off soon to be outdated campaign only supplements.

Well, since 2 of 4 listed either just had a codex (death guard), or have one coming 'Soon' (tm) [Dark Eldar], obviously not.

Well obviously not a preview for the Death Guard, but it could still be a preview of the Dark Eldar.

It wasn't written that way. These books were finalized months ago- its only printing and shipping that have been delayed.
DG was originally slated for December and Dark Eldar were January or maybe very early February before the delays hit.
The books themselves were likely finished back around September/October or so at the latest.


-----

PenitentJake wrote:And speaking of Charadon, let me clear something else up: the Book of Rust is a campaign book that contains rules, missions and lore. Its closest analogue is Vigilus; infact, the two are so similar, I wouldn't be surprised if Charadon ends up being a two parter like Vigilus was.

At least a two parter. 'Book of Rust' is explicitly Book 1 of the Warzone.

For all of you who seem to think the preorder date for the DE dex hasn't been set, it has. At the tag end of the phone-in fluff article about ways to die in Commorragh, the release date was formally announced: it's March 20th.

Huh. So it is. Glad they made such an effort to advertise that.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:
I'm now baffled by the idea that War Zone Chacha is going to beat out the codexes of half the factions that are in it. (It specifically has 'new rules' for DG, Dark Eldar, Ad Mech and Imp. Knights per its first and only preview)

Campaign rules. Nothing that really affects pickup/tournament games.

Not if it's analogous to Vigilus, as Penitant Jake theorizes. Remember, Vigilus gave us specialist detachments, as well as a full suite of strategems, warlord traits, and relics for Abigail and His Merry Band of Renegades.

Until we see previews for it, we won't have a solid idea either way. All speculation is equally valid - and invalid - at this point.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:
I'm now baffled by the idea that War Zone Chacha is going to beat out the codexes of half the factions that are in it. (It specifically has 'new rules' for DG, Dark Eldar, Ad Mech and Imp. Knights per its first and only preview)

Campaign rules. Nothing that really affects pickup/tournament games.

Not if it's analogous to Vigilus, as Penitant Jake theorizes. Remember, Vigilus gave us specialist detachments, as well as a full suite of strategems, warlord traits, and relics for Abigail and His Merry Band of Renegades.

I don't think GW has ever released a campaign book/set that didn't have rules that could be used in general, Vigilus and Psychic Awkening being the most recent examples.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dysartes wrote:
Until we see previews for it, we won't have a solid idea either way. All speculation is equally valid - and invalid - at this point.

No, all speculation isn't valid. GW has already shown that when they want a book to be Crusade only they will label it as such, at this point we have zero reason to think that there wont be matched play rules in War Zone Charadon.

 Gregor Samsa wrote:
hot take: old models don't matter. Many of the sculpts are timeless and great representations of the army.

old rules DO matter, because they make armies abject failures.

This! I've seen so many terrible sculpts over the years sell like hot cakes due to having broken rules (e.g. the old beasts of nurgle, did someones nephew on work placement sculpt them or something?), and some really gorgeous sculpts barely move due to being unplayable (e.g. WFB 6th ed Phoenix Guard). Get the rules right and the kits will sell.

The reason the wood elf army sold so poorly post 6th edition was purely down to rules, they were every players favourite army they wanted to have. In 8th ed when they finally got a good rules update all the old beautiful 6th ed models sold out immediately for about 3 months.

Will GW ever really design better Eldar vehicles than the now ancient (2nd ed iirc) Falcon chassis (forgeworld mk 2 was a lovely improvement, but not enought to warrant a new kit)? The hemlock was the last attempt at a new Eldar vehicle iirc and honestly it's a poor attempt in comparison to what were the existing forgeworld flyers (nightwing, phoenix, vampire), basically just looks like a slightly eldar version of a Eurofighter. I'm fine with them sticking with the Falcon for another 25 years tbh, it's gorgeous.

Similarly I remember thunderfire cannons being everywhere for a time, as if they are really every space marine players favourite model lol.

 Dysartes wrote:
Until we see previews for it, we won't have a solid idea either way. All speculation is equally valid - and invalid - at this point.

Considering the one specific piece of information specifically says it has both rules (for 4 factions) AND campaign rules... no, it isn't. It has 'codex supplement' rules, because that's what they explicitly said.

'All speculation is valid' is just a baffling concept. A simple thought exercise can easily disprove it. Valid and invalid is just vapid.

I do wonder if the contents of the Imperium magazine might be a hint with armies like sisters, admech, necrons and marines forming a lot of the 2021 releases. Would be good marketing to focus on the factions that new players will have picked up.