This set sold out quickly when it was released, and many of you have been in touch to ask if it will be back. Today we can confirm that it will indeed rise again.
For those of you that missed out the first time round, this is your chance to get your hands/bestial claws on some of the best Citadel miniatures of 2021, as well as the amazing co-operative Warhammer game. Look out for news on exact release dates in the new year.
Finally, if it’s not enough that Cursed City is returning, it will also be accompanied by expansions, so your adventure into Ulfenkarn can grow and continue with even more dramatic twists and turns. Spoiler alert: Radukar isn’t dead – he’s just really, really angry!
Ready your gear, heroes – we’ll see you in 2022.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Will this news wash away some of the bad taste left when it first released, and the radio silence that followed?
I dunno. I was lucky enough to bag a copy, and I certainly welcome the expansions.
I wonder if it's going to be identical or if some of the cardboard (still what i expect to have been the reason it vanished) will be slightly different due to coming from a different manufacturer?
but i'm glad to see it back, and even more pleased to hear expansions are in the offing
YES! I'm still angry at them about lying that it will be in their regular lineup.
But this is good enough for me and hopefully a big feth you to all the scalpers that are still sitting on their 250€++ copies on Ebay.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I like how they completly ignore all the backlash and silence, and refuse to acknowledge they did anything wrong, a very classic GW move.
It's evidently at this point due to a legal reason, they can't say what happened until it is all tied up on their end.
Not saying it isn't weird, but I think we will get an answer some day. It's GW legals being the cause of silence, in fact, we may get a little bit of info if rumours are to be true that they will be discussing some of the things this year that has left a sour taste in consumer mouths (mainly about third party animations).
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I like how they completly ignore all the backlash and silence, and refuse to acknowledge they did anything wrong, a very classic GW move.
It's evidently at this point due to a legal reason, they can't do a press release where they slag off a supplier when it is still to be settled.
Or it's the classic GW act of putting hands over your ears and pretending nothing is going on, hoping it'll resolve itself and goes away.
Which, evidently, it will, because people keep buying their crap.
It's the radio silence that stings the most. I wonder what it was in the end? The highly anticipated news of expansions makes it seem like a proper Blackstone style release and support was always the plan, which just makes the dead air over the return until now all the more puzzling.
More importantly, I wonder if the expansions are all new things, or if the Vyrkos bloodline releases we saw with the Soulblight Battletome were intended expansion content fast-tracked to AoS at large because they could handle that production themselves?
NAVARRO wrote: Wait... does the spoiler alert spoils the game campaign fluff? Because if it does its a dick post.
Radukar the Beast in AoS already confirms, at least partially, what becomes of him
Illumini wrote: Great news, didn't get the original, have considered buying some for markup, but luckily didn't pull the trigger. The minis look fantastic
Hanskrampf wrote: YES! I'm still angry at them about lying that it will be in their regular lineup.
But this is good enough for me and hopefully a big feth you to all the scalpers that are still sitting on their 250€++ copies on Ebay.
But it always was meant to be part of their regular line up.
The annoyance for me was them not explaining what went wrong or why it happened etc etc. But I get there may have been reasons they couldn’t (or just didn’t want to).
But it’s good news. I’ll definitely look at possibly thinking about maybe picking it up for sure.
And this is why GW will keep screwing you over, you are all so eager to spend your money on this, you already completely forgot about all the lies and awful communication surrounding it.
best to take screenshots, not that the community just got it wrong again with the original post being edited soon after release
but more serious, this time it is wait and see, not going to jump in until the expansions are out and I know the price (good chance to see the usual GW price jump because of the high demand)
Wonder if it will sell as well as the last lot supposedly did. I get the online store sold out but retailers seemed to have it for a while (at least some of them including my local GW).
Eager to see what the expansions are, I have already painted the core set in full...just hope that are better than some of the dire Blackstone Fortress ones (ETB Plague Marines I am looking at you).
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: And this is why GW will keep screwing you over, you are all so eager to spend your money on this, you already completely forgot about all the lies and awful communication surrounding it.
Or people are more interested in the game and models than in continuing to invest in a relatively pointless controversy.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:It would’ve been nice if they could’ve confirmed much earlier it would be returning, even if they couldn’t say exactly when.
Because scalper tears are delicious.
Yeah, I agree. I think there are probably at least four possible reasons:
1) genuine uncertainty about if/when it would return
2) acting publicly as if they didn't need to release it as a way to gain leverage in negotiations with a contractor
3) managerial incompetence
4) actively hating the fanbase
I imagine the one or two you think are most likely probably ties directly with your emotional state regarding GW.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:And this is why GW will keep screwing you over, you are all so eager to spend your money on this, you already completely forgot about all the lies and awful communication surrounding it.
How, exactly, is anybody getting "screwed" by GW over this? They released a product. I didn't buy it. They stop making and/or selling it. they offer it again. If I buy it, at a price I find palatable, aren't I getting my money's worth? Should I not buy something I would enjoy painting and playing in a futile gesture against the man?
Or... maybe you should decouple whatever intense emotional hang ups you have with GW from every new release.
I like how they ignore the entire thing surrounding it and wash themselves of any responsibility, talking about how people wanted it back, not like they promised it will stick around for years multiple times, or anything.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:And this is why GW will keep screwing you over, you are all so eager to spend your money on this, you already completely forgot about all the lies and awful communication surrounding it.
How, exactly, is anybody getting "screwed" by GW over this? They released a product. I didn't buy it. They stop making and/or selling it. they offer it again.
Not exactly, they announce a product, say it will be available for years, release it, delete it when it sells out, delete all mentions of how long it will be available, pretend they never said anything about it, don't mention it ever existed for most of a year, and then they bring it back without any mention of the entire controversy surrounding the initial release, and act as if they're doing us all a favour as if they're bringing back something community wanted, and not just living up to their own promises, over half a year too late.
Gert wrote: Wonder if it will sell as well as the last lot supposedly did. I get the online store sold out but retailers seemed to have it for a while (at least some of them including my local GW).
I suspect with the confirmation of expansions, there’s additional impetus to pick it up.
Those warming shelves didn’t have that arguable boon, as it was seen as a “one and done which was meant to have expansions”.
Well glad its coming back and they cleared up whatever issues with printing they had with the initial release. Also glad everyone who didn't get it will have a chance to now.
For me though, after seeing a bunch of play throughs and Let's Plays with it I certainly would like it but I just cant get past the gameplay. This is not a criticisms of Cursed City but of all the WHQ releases since the Silver Tower. I just dont like the rules system they use for it with the dice rolling and how power and activation works.
Then again maybe i'm just an Old Fogey who just wants a system like the old WHQ back. Glad to see there is such interest for it and there will be expansions for those who want it.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I like how they ignore the entire thing surrounding it and wash themselves of any responsibility, talking about how people wanted it back, not like they promised it will stick around for years multiple times, or anything.
Man... did your dad promise to take you to the zoo and then leave for cigarettes, never to return? Because you sound like you need therapy.
Oh my god, a publicly traded multi-national corporation wasn't 100% transparent about a supply issue for one item out of their hundreds of SKUs during a global supply chain fiasco. Clearly, this is a personal affront I must take to the grave.
CMLR wrote: Imagine buying this at overpriced tags with scalpers on eBay.
eh. people have money, and they want stuff. One thing I do to keep my sanity is not overly concern myself with what other people pay for stuff, especially if I'm not trying to buy it. I've paid $100 for a bottle of whiskey, which for serious scotch drinkers is small potatoes, and twenty years ago I would have been irate to pay so much.
I suspect with the confirmation of expansions, there’s additional impetus to pick it up.
unless the confirmation of expansions get removed after re-release again
If Cursed city is anything like BSF, you get a lot of play out of the base box. As a board game, you can find cheaper games, but I was very happy with BSF, and if anything, I felt like the core box provided the correct amount of content. I wouldn't say I was tired of it, but I didn't feel compelled to buy the expansions at retail, much less scalper prices.
Some of the oldest unsolved Rumour Engine pics look like they'd fit right in with this game. I'm curious to see if they're the expansion sets that were held back.
Some of the oldest unsolved Rumour Engine pics look like they'd fit right in with this game. I'm curious to see if they're the expansion sets that were held back.
I'm withholding excitement, as I feel it will just be previously released Soulblight character kits(more than a few of which are explicitly linked to Ulfenkarn, if memory serves) packed with maybe some new tiles and cards and cost 3x the price.
We can reasonably expect new areas of the city in the expansions.
Whilst I’m not knocking the BSF expansions, I’d prefer more classic style WHQ expansions. Handful of new monsters, new tiles, maybe one additional Hero.
FWIW, the BSF expansions were often eye wateringly expensive. the "big" expansion with the new heroes wasn't too bad, IIRC, but the rest were pretty clearly whale hunting.
I suspect with the confirmation of expansions, there’s additional impetus to pick it up.
unless the confirmation of expansions get removed after re-release again
If Cursed city is anything like BSF, you get a lot of play out of the base box. As a board game, you can find cheaper games, but I was very happy with BSF, and if anything, I felt like the core box provided the correct amount of content. I wouldn't say I was tired of it, but I didn't feel compelled to buy the expansions at retail, much less scalper prices.
it is more about that expansions were already announced the first time but this was than removed because "reasons", but now assuming that "this time" they will stick to their announcement and not just remove it like the first time
as said above, I don't feel the hype this time and wait until the expansions hit the stores before I buy into a promise that never happens
it is more about that expansions were already announced the first time but this was than removed because "reasons", but now assuming that "this time" they will stick to their announcement and not just remove it like the first time
as said above, I don't feel the hype this time and wait until the expansions hit the stores before I buy into a promise that never happens
Yeah, I wouldn't buy a boxed game based on the promise of expansions. I think that's true of any product.
I guess I just don't see letting expansions influence buying the game either way, unless there's some world where the expansions are awesome and regularly available but the base game is sold out.
with already knowing the core game and that it is build with expansions in mind, don't see the point if buying an expensiv half finished product just because of the minis (which I can get anyway) and than missing the gameplay again
I'm incredibly happy to see this news! Loved the concept of the first game, managed to get one on release day, then all the things happened and didn't finished painting it. Rekindled interested now (especially for expansion!) and will get back to painting it eventually!
Funny thing is that my local store still have like 7 boxes of it that have been sitting there since the beginning. They are marked up at 300$ CAD instead of the original price of 200$ CAD. Most likely because they managed to secure some extra copies during the short hype period and paid a premium themself (their original batch of like 6 boxes sold at regular retail price). They'll have to bite the bullet if that's the case and put it back at retail I would guess!
I know there’s a popular theory that some of the Soulblight releases for AoS were intended as Cursed City expansions, but I’m not convinced. All of Blackstone fortress’ minis (including all those in the expansions) were push fit.
Ohh been enjoying the core box for a while now, so this is welcome news, expansions especially. I think big Radukar was definitely a planned expansion. He fits in too well not to be.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: And this is why GW will keep screwing you over, you are all so eager to spend your money on this, you already completely forgot about all the lies and awful communication surrounding it.
No, I didn't forget. I just don't care.
Here's how it went;
They spent considerable effort hyping CS.
As I've enjoyed Blackstone, & really liked these minis, I thought "Cool, a Sigmar version of BS. I'll have to check it out."
But I didn't specifically tell my local shop to order me one.
And then it came & went so fast that I never saw the couple copies the shop got in.
I shrugged & figured "Maybe when they re-stock."
Wich was promptly followed by GW claiming that it was always meant to be a limited release.....
Again I shrugged, thinking "Eh, I guess their plans changed." I don't consider myself entitled to a explanation. So I just continued gaming as usual & didn't worry about it.
Now?
Well, I've enjoyed BS & I still think a Sigmar version might be cool.
I've not had any previous order for this canceled, not overpaid for a copy, am not sitting on a stash of it that's going to lose value....
I'm STILL not entitled to an explanation of what went wrong the 1st time.
And now I'll have a 2nd chance to pick it up. My FLGS likes this development.
So I'm not quite sure how I'm being screwed over here.
I'll be interested in seeing what happens with the expansions, depending on the content/prices. I was lucky and managed to bag a copy the first time around, with the added benefit of a discount from the FLGS. I think there will be those who got burnt by what happened and have decided to just move on, but it's good news for those who are still interested.
Pretty much expected this announcement and of course welcome it.
The Cursed City fiasco has been well covered in previous threads and many a youtube video and so there isn't much more to say on the matter, save for GW to at least communicate with their wider customer base that they acknowledge it's concerns.
Glad to hear it for the people still interested in the game, but they probably should have told people it was gonna be back instead of the opposite, because I'm sure there's people that have paid entirely to much to scalpers for this.
Personally any interest I had for it faded a long time ago, but still.
I'd guess they cheat the price up 10-20 bucks, but trying to predict GW's pricing is always a mystery.
Depending on how deep a bench of expansions they have planned, they may keep the base box price low to attract more buyers. It probably also depends if they are going to produce CC for a while, or if they are making one more big run.
The game is crap, and still nearly unplayable faff even after end user intervention.
But i want these models for warcry, as they fit the bill more than admirably. The game can go in the trash. I dont say that .ightly, as a boardgamer, such stuff is normally the main reason why id pick this up.
~I always figured that the good side would get released when Cities or a human faction in AoS got a new Battletome. GW has clearly made this set to pair with the core game a bit more so than the Blackstone. Which is a sensible idea in the long run
Overread wrote: ~I always figured that the good side would get released when Cities or a human faction in AoS got a new Battletome. GW has clearly made this set to pair with the core game a bit more so than the Blackstone. Which is a sensible idea in the long run
Funny you mention that!
Emmet Byrne wrote:Cursed City is coming back! Not only that, but you'll be able to roleplay in the Cursed City with the upcoming Soulbound book Ulfenkarn: City at the Edge of Death!
Emmet Byrne is a RPG designer, co-designer of Soulbound, and a creative director at Cubicle 7.
Guess that means we'll get to find out if this mini or this mini really were expansions hastily rushed out as regular releases when CC vanished the first time.
It's nice for people who didn't get a copy, but it's a criminally boring game to play. It's really like four scenarios repeated over and over and over again, and they're not good scenarios. It's kind of crazy how the original Warhammer Quest can essentially be the same thing over and over again, except with a different final room, and it's 10 times as much fun.
So with that said, I'm not so sure about grabbing any expansions. I can imagine the prices on them will be insulting, and all to expand a game that's boring.
Guess that means we'll get to find out if this mini or this mini really were expansions hastily rushed out as regular releases when CC vanished the first time.
I'd have thought if they were in the Vampire book, then they were planned as elements of that some time ago given the lead time for things and that the Cursed City issues apparently occurred whilst they were setting up for a second printing.
But no reason they might not have been both - though I thought the rumours around locations in the city hinted that there were other types of undead in the city (Nighthaunt, ghouls etc)?
Lets not forget that whilst we got the cool Zoat and Awakened Drone expansions, there was also one that had easy to build plague marines and pox walkers.
Fancy card deck for hauntings (from dead enemies and fallen friends) and a new city tile would easily make a ghost expansion interesting, if a little uninspired in the miniature department.
I wonder if there is a rewrite of any part of the design. In boardgame circles, tbis game was universally panned as garbage. Which is a shame since the models are so very good.
Good to know it was designed by emmet byrne. I will avoid his designs like the plague when i note the name is the design credits.
Wiz Warrior wrote: I wonder if there is a rewrite of any part of the design. In boardgame circles, tbis game was universally panned as garbage. Which is a shame since the models are so very good.
Good thing boardgame circles are boardgame circles?
Good to know it was designed by emmet byrne. I will avoid his designs like the plague when i note the name is the design credits.
So you're clear with your weird frothy haterade today:
Emmet Byrne is Cubicle 7, working on the Soulbound RPG.
Wiz Warrior wrote: I wonder if there is a rewrite of any part of the design. In boardgame circles, tbis game was universally panned as garbage. Which is a shame since the models are so very good.
Good thing boardgame circles are boardgame circles?
Good to know it was designed by emmet byrne. I will avoid his designs like the plague when i note the name is the design credits.
So you're clear with your weird frothy haterade today:
Emmet Byrne is Cubicle 7, working on the Soulbound RPG.
He didn't work on Cursed City the boardgame.
Ahh, mea culpa. I misunderstood your post as attaching him to the design of cursed city.
As for haterade, this is a boardgame. Its should be rated on those merits and not just because it has admittedly very pretty dollies. Gw could have saved the consumer and their entire carbon footprint/resources by just selling the dollies to us and not insult the gaming public with the game design, or rather, its distinct pack therof.
But youre the local gw whiteknight, so your own opinions on the matter were predictable years before you made them here.
Does Games Workshop make literally any games that are genuinely fun to play from a boardgame player perspective, and not a "cool lore/cool minis" perspective? Like, you could sit someone down who enjoys Catan or Last Night on Earth, and play X with them, and it's not a poorly-written-and balanced, tedious slog?
I'd give them Talisman and maaaaybe Space Hulk, but SH does lean awful hard into having a cool backstory.
Gorechosen, silver tower, or pretty much anything designed by james hewitt during his time at gw. In some ways, i consider most of gw recent boardgames to be pretty decent if not actually good. The last "bad board game" design seems to be the oft maligned dreadfleet game. And im not so sure as that was a bad design as it just flew in the face of expectations of their customers.
Boardgames are allowed to have cool backstories too. Being well designed isnt mutually exclusive of being well written. If anything, they go hand in hand.
Stuff like cursed city sticks out like a sore thumb when it has as many obvious mechanical design flaws as it does.
A good overview of the more egregious flaws in cursed city you can find in Joel Eddys drive thru review.
Wiz Warrior wrote: And im not so sure as that was a bad design as it just flew in the face of expectations of their customers.
It was. Look up what Jake Thornton, an old school GW employee who went on to work at Mantic, had to say about the game when it came out. It's interesting to watch his before and after thoughts, starting with "I remember Man'O'War! This should be fun!" through to "Who designed this???".
Wiz Warrior wrote: The game is crap, and still nearly unplayable faff even after end user intervention.
But i want these models for warcry, as they fit the bill more than admirably. The game can go in the trash. I dont say that .ightly, as a boardgamer, such stuff is normally the main reason why id pick this up.
Well if you're just going to scrap the non-mini elements? Toss the original box, shove them in a flat rate shipping box/mailer envelope & send them my way. I'll pay the postage.
You can even punch the cardboard parts out of the frames & stick the tokens etc in a ziplock baggie. Whatever makes for the cheapest shipping.
My interest is mostly the game. We can play that with any # of existing minis though.
Ouze wrote: Does Games Workshop make literally any games that are genuinely fun to play from a boardgame player perspective, and not a "cool lore/cool minis" perspective? Like, you could sit someone down who enjoys Catan or Last Night on Earth, and play X with them, and it's not a poorly-written-and balanced, tedious slog?
I'd give them Talisman and maaaaybe Space Hulk, but SH does lean awful hard into having a cool backstory.
I think Talisman is only fun for a handful of plays before it begins to get tedious. Space Hulk was really pretty good.
Underworlds is the best GW game (imo, of course). However, while I *suppose* you could play it with a boardgamer, you'll find that the kind of person who gets the most mileage out of it is the cardgamer type; anyone who's been into games like Magic or Netrunner will see the beauty of this game.
I've not played Cursed City. It does indeed look like a tedious slog. I played through the entire BSF campaign with a friend in a week and while we had a blast it was probably because I hadn't seen him in a couple of years and we played the campaign while hanging out. In retrospect, I wouldn't want to play it again.
Ouze wrote: Does Games Workshop make literally any games that are genuinely fun to play from a boardgame player perspective, and not a "cool lore/cool minis" perspective? Like, you could sit someone down who enjoys Catan or Last Night on Earth, and play X with them, and it's not a poorly-written-and balanced, tedious slog?
I'd give them Talisman and maaaaybe Space Hulk, but SH does lean awful hard into having a cool backstory.
The game that came in Betrayal At Calth was praised quite highly, even on BGG. Ironic really, as most people bought it for the minis. A James Hewitt work that gets largely missed, sadly.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Also, I can now start converting the models in my set without the fear of backlash for doing it to one of the few kits out there.
+1
My thoughts aswell.
I bought it at my local hobby shop on release day and gave all the non mini content away, then it became (temporarily) OOP and I kept most of the minis on the sprues. Now I feel free to populate Necromunda with them
GW WAS famous for its board games too. Games like Warhammer Quest 1995 and Space Hulk are great games and true classics.
Dreadfleet was far superior to WHQ Coursed City in terms of mechanics and playability even if it was a dice fest. In was actually a wargame in a box, more than a board game, and beautiful to see once painted. It did deserve the fate it had.
Coming back to Coursed City it is indeed a BSF reskin but in BSF worked mechanics worked because of throwing weapons. In CC there are not two (almost) and the gameplay is ruined, with enemies that often struggle to attack heroes...
Ouze wrote: Does Games Workshop make literally any games that are genuinely fun to play from a boardgame player perspective, and not a "cool lore/cool minis" perspective? Like, you could sit someone down who enjoys Catan or Last Night on Earth, and play X with them, and it's not a poorly-written-and balanced, tedious slog?
I'd give them Talisman and maaaaybe Space Hulk, but SH does lean awful hard into having a cool backstory.
The game that came in Betrayal At Calth was praised quite highly, even on BGG. Ironic really, as most people bought it for the minis. A James Hewitt work that gets largely missed, sadly.
BAC would have been a great core mechanic for 40k boxed game releases. So much could have been done using two force release boxes with tiles and the dice. But they sadly derailed that path with the Prospeo game using some goofy alternative shortly ish afterwards.
Somniare wrote: I'll be interested in seeing what happens with the expansions, depending on the content/prices. I was lucky and managed to bag a copy the first time around, with the added benefit of a discount from the FLGS. I think there will be those who got burnt by what happened and have decided to just move on, but it's good news for those who are still interested.
"Burnt" is perhaps not quite the right word; personally it's more a simple case of having accepted long ago that I'm not getting this set because it's gone, or was meant to be gone. While it seemed unbelievable at the time that it would never return, that was the eventual conclusion. Guess it's nice that it'll finally be returning after all, but I'm certainly less likely to pick it up now than I would have been at the time.
Dear GW, if we're in this sort of productive mood, could you please reprint the BSF expansions.
If nothing else, if you can't redo the cardboard bits, could we at least have the models added to the online store as sprues, just like Warhammer Underworlds gets?
A thought occurs. It’s not necessarily a good thought or even an accurate one.
The main upset about Cursed City the first time around wasn’t so much it selling out on the day, but that we’d been lead to believe it was to be a stock item. And when that changed, GW just said nothing. At all. I think the most we got was a rather non-committal “like, maybe it’ll be back, I dunno”.
Since then, we’ve seen GW be a good deal more open when things are delayed, including when certain items are delayed in certain locales.
We’ll likely never know what happened with Cursed City like. But it does feel like GW have at least learned something.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: A thought occurs. It’s not necessarily a good thought or even an accurate one.
The main upset about Cursed City the first time around wasn’t so much it selling out on the day, but that we’d been lead to believe it was to be a stock item. And when that changed, GW just said nothing. At all. I think the most we got was a rather non-committal “like, maybe it’ll be back, I dunno”.
Since then, we’ve seen GW be a good deal more open when things are delayed, including when certain items are delayed in certain locales.
We’ll likely never know what happened with Cursed City like. But it does feel like GW have at least learned something.
Better to let that ship sail away I think.
There are lessons to be learned in many aspects of CC but it depends on their own interpretation as a company of what exactly happened I guess. Some companies demonise their clients others make fun of them and others respect and try... In different occasions GW has done all of those so I dont know what they decide to do tomorrow.
Apparently by the comments here the game is not that good either, so another lesson would be minis alone sell. Hence the super expensive bundles with parts of the sold out boxes are in store... Still a slap in the face of customers that could not get the original box sets.
As has been speculated, if there was some kind of legal wrangle involved, I accept they couldn’t really say anything.
But if that wasn’t the case, at least acknowledge something has gone wrong/went wrong. Communicate they at least have the intent of trying to get it back, even if it comes with the caveat “but we seriously cannot promise anything”.
Their stuff selling out is nothing new. But they set the “stock item” expectation, then just…..silence.
Automatically Appended Next Post: We have seen improvements there. As well as telling us of delays up front, they’ve moved to a MTO window for otherwise limited sets.
The MTO is probably the happiest of mediums. GW don’t really risk sitting on unsold stock, as they can go with a more conservative initial stock level. We the potential customer don’t suffer from Scalpers hoovering up the initial stock, because we know that, with a bit of patience, it will be ours provided we can buy it within the MTO window.
I like yourself do also prefer transparency over the silence displayed, specially on a hobby niche company. But the company choose not to for its own reasons and I cannot speak for others but it turned me off from getting this.
When a company makes it extra hard for you to get their things and is not even transparent about the continuity/future of said products then I drop it.
The MTO may turn out to be the best option but is far from ideal since GW is all about providing new things on the spot every week to keep you buying, if the delivery dates start to collide with future new releases you end up with a client sitting & waiting for the MTO to be delivered first before going for new things.
I get the feeling these stock issues have more to do with the inability to produce x amounts of volumes rather than just Covid Brexit... Something tells me with production increasing to meet growing demand it needs a huge investment that is quite risky... Just a gut feeling but its almost like when companies reach a critical production size and do not meet demand anymore.
We’ve all know no matter what they do somebody or some group will chastise them. If it was a legal issue then they will get the “They should focus their legal team on these issues instead of punishing people making fan films.” If it was a supply chain issue then their purchasing department should have been on it” if it wasn’t enough profit then “the bean counters suck” , production capacity “Why didn’t we build the factory larger.”
Really, they are making money, even during the Pandemic. It’s best to not engage and let the complainers complain. It’s not like GW is known for great communications anyway.
They are bringing the game back due, wether it’s due to great demand or finally getting the raw materials, it’s back. Complainers should save their energy for the fully expected price rise when it hits the market again.
GW know they can stay silent because odds are it's going to just blow over anyway. Toss out the next New Shiny and 99% of people will start clapping for it, rather than lingering on what came before.
How long did that 'boycott' last as soon as the new Black Templars were revealed?
NAVARRO wrote: I like yourself do also prefer transparency over the silence displayed, specially on a hobby niche company. But the company choose not to for its own reasons and I cannot speak for others but it turned me off from getting this.
When a company makes it extra hard for you to get their things and is not even transparent about the continuity/future of said products then I drop it.
The MTO may turn out to be the best option but is far from ideal since GW is all about providing new things on the spot every week to keep you buying, if the delivery dates start to collide with future new releases you end up with a client sitting & waiting for the MTO to be delivered first before going for new things.
I get the feeling these stock issues have more to do with the inability to produce x amounts of volumes rather than just Covid Brexit... Something tells me with production increasing to meet growing demand it needs a huge investment that is quite risky... Just a gut feeling but its almost like when companies reach a critical production size and do not meet demand anymore.
Well they’ve not long opened their second foundry in Nottingham. And I’m told (by all means salt to taste!) that in order to maintain a COVID “safe” environment, neither has foundry is running at full capacity. Space between workers, proper clean down between shifts.
When this all starts to settle down again, they should be OK.
NAVARRO wrote: I like yourself do also prefer transparency over the silence displayed, specially on a hobby niche company. But the company choose not to for its own reasons and I cannot speak for others but it turned me off from getting this.
When a company makes it extra hard for you to get their things and is not even transparent about the continuity/future of said products then I drop it.
The MTO may turn out to be the best option but is far from ideal since GW is all about providing new things on the spot every week to keep you buying, if the delivery dates start to collide with future new releases you end up with a client sitting & waiting for the MTO to be delivered first before going for new things.
I get the feeling these stock issues have more to do with the inability to produce x amounts of volumes rather than just Covid Brexit... Something tells me with production increasing to meet growing demand it needs a huge investment that is quite risky... Just a gut feeling but its almost like when companies reach a critical production size and do not meet demand anymore.
Well they’ve not long opened their second foundry in Nottingham. And I’m told (by all means salt to taste!) that in order to maintain a COVID “safe” environment, neither has foundry is running at full capacity. Space between workers, proper clean down between shifts.
When this all starts to settle down again, they should be OK.
Thats good to know, GW never produced so many miniatures in so many fronts, 40k, AoS, Lotr and loads of specialists support. They really need that extra capacity to be there now.
Cursed City seems to be having expansions so its another knot to add to the range of specialists.
Boxed games come and go, can you imagine the amount of box sets if they still kept all in production? That would be great for us but way too many sets to handle I guess.
We’ve all know no matter what they do somebody or some group will chastise them.
Not sure about that argument. Just because they won't make everyone happy all the time, the amount of unhappy people and their reasons for unhappiness with GW's behaviour will be rather different based on what that behaviour is. GW's failure to communicate anything during the CC debacle didn't just give the usual haters ammunition, it was also a major turn off for people legitimately enthusiastic about the release.
It’s another example of GW’s curious luck when it comes to world events they can’t influence.
LOTR bubble bursting caused them to resize their business and rationalise stores just before the global recession, so whilst everyone else ran to do the same, they were more or less wrapping up.
COVID? I believe the second foundry had just been completed (more or less) just before lockdown hit (and it included major public works to increase the electrical grid!), so they had the space to continue a decent level of production.
I'm happy to see it come back, and I may pick up a copy this time, especially if they do expansions.
What I would like to see GW do is offer a series of made-to-order card reprints for Blackstone Fortress and Adeptus Titanicus. I sadly missed a couple of them, and .pdfs are just not the same.
Transparency is a great goal. It's a good way to build trust, and especially in a team, it can lead to some great stuff.
Transparency can also be messy. Decisions often have a lot of moving parts.
Lets just look at the decision whether or not to do a second print run of CC, based on information we have publicly, and a general understanding of how businesses make these decisions. A second CC run would cost GW money to find a new vendor for the board game components, and while they own the plant for making the minis, my understanding is that they are at or near capacity, so running CC sprues means pushing other sprues back.
GW is not interested in CC making it's money back, it's interested in making the best investment of it's time, money, and plant. I have a lot of SOB players in my life, so I know that Sacresancts are perennially out of stock. So, righty out the gate, any production of CC would need to be more profitable than simply running off sacrosanct and selling them basically immediately. Oh, and from that, you need to subtract the cost of board game component, and figure in that demand for CC is reduced due to the initial print run. Then, factor in the loss incurred if molds for the expansions were already cut, BUT also figure out if running more CC would delay any other new models. All of this is not super tough to figure out, aside from the wild card: the cost of printing and shipping the board game components.
Okay, now, I would be fascinated if GW would have said that, instead of nothing. But I understand why they didn't. It turns a simple question into a complicated answer. It also, BTW, has the effect of letting vendors know how badly they want to make more CC, which could, in theory, allow those vendors to charge more.
Would people really have been more satisfied if GW said "if we have the time and money to make more, we're going to try, but we're not going to bump back any other planned new releases."
What I would like to see GW do is offer a series of made-to-order card reprints for Blackstone Fortress and Adeptus Titanicus. I sadly missed a couple of them, and .pdfs are just not the same.
Still can't see why they don't set up a POD facility for cards and maybe even select titles like Slaves to Darkness etc.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wonder if it hit around the same time Heroquest makes it to retail.
Polonius wrote: Transparency is a great goal. It's a good way to build trust, and especially in a team, it can lead to some great stuff.
Transparency can also be messy. Decisions often have a lot of moving parts.
Lets just look at the decision whether or not to do a second print run of CC, based on information we have publicly, and a general understanding of how businesses make these decisions. A second CC run would cost GW money to find a new vendor for the board game components, and while they own the plant for making the minis, my understanding is that they are at or near capacity, so running CC sprues means pushing other sprues back.
GW is not interested in CC making it's money back, it's interested in making the best investment of it's time, money, and plant. I have a lot of SOB players in my life, so I know that Sacresancts are perennially out of stock. So, righty out the gate, any production of CC would need to be more profitable than simply running off sacrosanct and selling them basically immediately. Oh, and from that, you need to subtract the cost of board game component, and figure in that demand for CC is reduced due to the initial print run. Then, factor in the loss incurred if molds for the expansions were already cut, BUT also figure out if running more CC would delay any other new models. All of this is not super tough to figure out, aside from the wild card: the cost of printing and shipping the board game components.
Okay, now, I would be fascinated if GW would have said that, instead of nothing. But I understand why they didn't. It turns a simple question into a complicated answer. It also, BTW, has the effect of letting vendors know how badly they want to make more CC, which could, in theory, allow those vendors to charge more.
Would people really have been more satisfied if GW said "if we have the time and money to make more, we're going to try, but we're not going to bump back any other planned new releases."
Transparency for the sake of transparency and deprived of any sort of responsible thought can actually be damaging, but thats like anything theoretically positive landed in a unprofessional way.
Thats not what I mean and actually you can be transparent about a subject in a way that you don't spill the beans you dont want/need to share.
Something along the lines "The demand has been amazing and we are looking into releasing more box sets, but due to covid and Brexit delays we are not at this point sure of the exact dates, we will do our best, thanks for your support"
Much better than silence even if very vague and with not much information....
kodos wrote: Going by the latest boxed games price increases my guess is ~150GBP/190€/250$
It was £125 before, I can’t see it being more than it’s original price really. Maybe £130 at a push.
I’ll be hesitant to buy it if it went up.
Black stone was the same price for several years.
This is the same thing, just was missing from stock for a huge while. So it shouldn’t go up at all in that sense..
Obviously they are marketing it as “it’s rereleasing/returning!” But in reality it would have just been here this whole time if it weren’t for whatever production issues they had etc.
NAVARRO wrote: Transparency for the sake of transparency and deprived of any sort of responsible thought can actually be damaging, but thats like anything theoretically positive landed in a unprofessional way. Thats not what I mean and actually you can be transparent about a subject in a way that you don't spill the beans you dont want/need to share.
Something along the lines "The demand has been amazing and we are looking into releasing more box sets, but due to covid and Brexit delays we are not at this point sure of the exact dates, we will do our best, thanks for your support" Much better than silence even if very vague and with not much information....
I think at some point we're splitting very fine PR hairs. Your statement looks fine, but then when they don't release it again, you'll have people pissed that they said they'd release more. Especially since the phrase "we will do our best" implies that they will actually make it a priority, when the reality is that CC was never going to be a major priority.
Keep in mind, we're now talking with hindsight after the rerelease was announced, I did not expect that, I figured they'd take the sunk cost and move on.
I just think it's odd that the blanket assumption by GW fans, myself included, is that the things they do is the result of incompetence. I'm sure there were many meetings in which people argued how much of a response to give to questions about CC. Now, I think the valid critique is that even though we get peeks a few months out now, GW might still be pushing people to buy what's available instead of holding off for a future purchase.
GW's moves around Cursed City are debated on the internet, but I have a feeling literally nobody back in the real world who manages a business looks at the situation and goes, "Oooh, I gotta learn from that."
People who imagine this toy maker is filled with a lot of Warren Buffets of plastic production, who follow the narrow golden path of genius business moves may as well keep on imagining. It's all idle internet fun anyway.
NAVARRO wrote: Transparency for the sake of transparency and deprived of any sort of responsible thought can actually be damaging, but thats like anything theoretically positive landed in a unprofessional way.
Thats not what I mean and actually you can be transparent about a subject in a way that you don't spill the beans you dont want/need to share.
Something along the lines "The demand has been amazing and we are looking into releasing more box sets, but due to covid and Brexit delays we are not at this point sure of the exact dates, we will do our best, thanks for your support"
Much better than silence even if very vague and with not much information....
I think at some point we're splitting very fine PR hairs. Your statement looks fine, but then when they don't release it again, you'll have people pissed that they said they'd release more. Especially since the phrase "we will do our best" implies that they will actually make it a priority, when the reality is that CC was never going to be a major priority.
Keep in mind, we're now talking with hindsight after the rerelease was announced, I did not expect that, I figured they'd take the sunk cost and move on.
I just think it's odd that the blanket assumption by GW fans, myself included, is that the things they do is the result of incompetence. I'm sure there were many meetings in which people argued how much of a response to give to questions about CC. Now, I think the valid critique is that even though we get peeks a few months out now, GW might still be pushing people to buy what's available instead of holding off for a future purchase.
I kind of assume CC was always going to be a big release with expansions... but yes we dont know if at the time they had the information that they could resolve the "issue" stopping them for producing more sets.
But what Im saying is that transparency is doable without being to specific about details and still keeping the game to yourself. Its good PR.
I think its easier to assume they are incompetent in some regards but a company doing well in current times doesn't get there by chance, so yeah I think numbers show us that actually they are very competent at what they do.
Guess that means we'll get to find out if this mini or this mini really were expansions hastily rushed out as regular releases when CC vanished the first time.
They are far too large for the board. Even Annika and the Rat guy don't fit with their length - models in the game may go beyond their base size (with weapons for example), but not at the base itself.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: A thought occurs. It’s not necessarily a good thought or even an accurate one.
The main upset about Cursed City the first time around wasn’t so much it selling out on the day, but that we’d been lead to believe it was to be a stock item. And when that changed, GW just said nothing. At all. I think the most we got was a rather non-committal “like, maybe it’ll be back, I dunno”.
Since then, we’ve seen GW be a good deal more open when things are delayed, including when certain items are delayed in certain locales.
We’ll likely never know what happened with Cursed City like. But it does feel like GW have at least learned something.
Yep. They learned they can complete bobble a release, release some of the characters at HUGE increase (Beast mode Radukar is on the 'top picks' right now (yeah, yeah I know he wasn't in the CC set), but the Court is still under soulblight for $125), and then confidently start reselling it afterwards as if nothing had happened.
We’ve all know no matter what they do somebody or some group will chastise them.
Not sure about that argument. Just because they won't make everyone happy all the time, the amount of unhappy people and their reasons for unhappiness with GW's behavior will be rather different based on what that behaviour is. GW's failure to communicate anything during the CC debacle didn't just give the usual haters ammunition, it was also a major turn off for people legitimately enthusiastic about the release.
Yet they seem to still be selling everything really well. I don't know of anyone who threw out their miniature collection or set it ablaze due to the CC debacle. Actually more people are playing at my local game store now with new armies compared to before CC. Wether it's because they had cash to spend, more time to paint or whatever, the lack of communications has not "Hurt" them. Maybe they lost out on some possible sales, but if people are claiming that the game is really bad as I have read here in this thread, maybe it's for the better that they did not instantly restock it. GW is still making money, they are still expanding their market, and their is still demand for their games. Them being quiet has only caused rage here in forums which is small potatoes to the rest of the gaming world.
Mark Twain said it best "It is best to remain silent and thought a fool than to talk and remove all doubt." GW is remaining silent on the issue. You can continue to criticize their plan, but we don't know the "truth" behind what happened with the release and why it's so botched. What would they have to gain from bringing it up again? People are not going to let it go either way. Either they will continue to criticize how poorly it was handled and say how they could have done it differently, or moan about why it wasn't handled earlier.
If people are truly turned off and will never come back to GW it hasn't stopped them from bringing in enough new blood to replace them. I fell away from GW for about 3 editions, tired of the creep and the rules. I returned with Indomitus and Dominion, mainly due to the new models, but mostly because I have a little more time available and wanted to get back to the "Main game out there". Just not enough competition to lead me elsewhere. The people who are truly turned off will eventually return, or they were probably at the end of their miniature gaming life cycle. It happens, I left miniatures for a D&D campaign for 3-4 year over a decade ago. I had time one night a week because of school, kids and work where I could do that but not enough for the miniature gaming. People change their lifestyles, gaming styles and sometimes they come back. GW knows it, if they upset someone now, they know they have a chance of them coming back later. One bad decision is not going to ruin them forever, if it did then a majority of us wouldn't be here currently.
Wiz Warrior wrote: The game is crap, and still nearly unplayable faff even after end user intervention.
But i want these models for warcry, as they fit the bill more than admirably. The game can go in the trash. I dont say that .ightly, as a boardgamer, such stuff is normally the main reason why id pick this up.
Well if you're just going to scrap the non-mini elements? Toss the original box, shove them in a flat rate shipping box/mailer envelope & send them my way. I'll pay the postage.
You can even punch the cardboard parts out of the frames & stick the tokens etc in a ziplock baggie. Whatever makes for the cheapest shipping.
My interest is mostly the game. We can play that with any # of existing minis though.
This is exactly what I did, bought the complete game minus the minis off ebay for a fraction of the retail price since I already have close stand ins from years of collecting GW and Reaper and D&D figures. Haven't had a chance to actually play it so I can't comment on gameplay, but the cardboard components are top notch and the cards and dice are as good or better than many of the dungeoncrawlers I have.
GW WAS famous for its board games too. Games like Warhammer Quest 1995 and Space Hulk are great games and true classics.
GMG has had a lot of '95 Warhammer Quest on his Throwback Thursday videos lately and had a few playthorughs of the new Cursed City when it hit. Original Warhammer Quest looks fun but clunky, is it actually better than Cursed City or is it just nostalgia?
Guess that means we'll get to find out if this mini or this mini really were expansions hastily rushed out as regular releases when CC vanished the first time.
They are far too large for the board. Even Annika and the Rat guy don't fit with their length - models in the game may go beyond their base size (with weapons for example), but not at the base itself.
And they’re in the Soulblight book. It’s not like with lead time they could just whip up their inclusion just because expansions weren’t happening.
The expansions are just likely things we wouldn’t even think of etc..
Guess that means we'll get to find out if this mini or this mini really were expansions hastily rushed out as regular releases when CC vanished the first time.
They are far too large for the board. Even Annika and the Rat guy don't fit with their length - models in the game may go beyond their base size (with weapons for example), but not at the base itself.
They’re also not push fit. I’d be very surprised if they did non-push fit minis for a board game.
We’ve all know no matter what they do somebody or some group will chastise them.
Not sure about that argument. Just because they won't make everyone happy all the time, the amount of unhappy people and their reasons for unhappiness with GW's behavior will be rather different based on what that behaviour is. GW's failure to communicate anything during the CC debacle didn't just give the usual haters ammunition, it was also a major turn off for people legitimately enthusiastic about the release.
Yet they seem to still be selling everything really well. I don't know of anyone who threw out their miniature collection or set it ablaze due to the CC debacle. Actually more people are playing at my local game store now with new armies compared to before CC. Wether it's because they had cash to spend, more time to paint or whatever, the lack of communications has not "Hurt" them. Maybe they lost out on some possible sales, but if people are claiming that the game is really bad as I have read here in this thread, maybe it's for the better that they did not instantly restock it. GW is still making money, they are still expanding their market, and their is still demand for their games. Them being quiet has only caused rage here in forums which is small potatoes to the rest of the gaming world.
Mark Twain said it best "It is best to remain silent and thought a fool than to talk and remove all doubt." GW is remaining silent on the issue. You can continue to criticize their plan, but we don't know the "truth" behind what happened with the release and why it's so botched. What would they have to gain from bringing it up again? People are not going to let it go either way. Either they will continue to criticize how poorly it was handled and say how they could have done it differently, or moan about why it wasn't handled earlier.
If people are truly turned off and will never come back to GW it hasn't stopped them from bringing in enough new blood to replace them. I fell away from GW for about 3 editions, tired of the creep and the rules. I returned with Indomitus and Dominion, mainly due to the new models, but mostly because I have a little more time available and wanted to get back to the "Main game out there". Just not enough competition to lead me elsewhere. The people who are truly turned off will eventually return, or they were probably at the end of their miniature gaming life cycle. It happens, I left miniatures for a D&D campaign for 3-4 year over a decade ago. I had time one night a week because of school, kids and work where I could do that but not enough for the miniature gaming. People change their lifestyles, gaming styles and sometimes they come back. GW knows it, if they upset someone now, they know they have a chance of them coming back later. One bad decision is not going to ruin them forever, if it did then a majority of us wouldn't be here currently.
Well, I wasn't saying their handling of the Cursed City situation was something in the order of magnitude akin to blowing up the Warhammer Fantasy world and creating AoS, so no, of course the reactions weren't equally overblown either. All I'm saying is that some level of communication on the matter ("Whelp, that sure sold out quickly! We'll look into ways to possibly bring the set back into production, but for the moment can't unfortunately tell you if or when.") would have caused zero harm (they already sold out, they're not losing sales from people still on the fence) aside from to scalpers (and f them), while acknowledging the situation and... that's it. The not-chronically angry part of the "fan"base would have been happier with that than the actual handling of the situation, which will have led to some level of reduced enthusiasm for the eventual return of Cursed City, or some level of loss of faith in GW. Perhaps major, perhaps minor, but overall a worse outcome than the barest of minimal amounts of communication could have provided. I think. Unless there was a legitimate reason not to be able to comment on the matter at all, but that is fully speculative.
frankelee wrote: GW's moves around Cursed City are debated on the internet, but I have a feeling literally nobody back in the real world who manages a business looks at the situation and goes, "Oooh, I gotta learn from that."
People who imagine this toy maker is filled with a lot of Warren Buffets of plastic production, who follow the narrow golden path of genius business moves may as well keep on imagining. It's all idle internet fun anyway.
Absolutely. If things go wrong, then obviously it‘s always been the other guy‘s fault anyway.
While I don't think they didn't say anything so they could sell the character sprues for a ridiculous price, I do think someone in their offices decided to try and make the best of a bad situation. I think with all the Covid issues: all the shipping problems along with the power problems of the new facility and lockdowns I think they just froze. They didn't know what to do, so they did nothing and didn't want to say something to have it blow up in their faces. It blew up anyway, but at least this way they didn't compound the problem by promising something and being turned into a liar due to other issues later. It sucked that they didn't have clear communications, or really any communications in the case of CC, but adding more noise (Which is what it would have been) was not going to help.
If they had said that CC would return, they would have been innundated with questions of WHEN? Why are you bothering releasing XXX when you should focus on CC? Will I still get it for the same price? Why Aren't there Space Marines in it? or a million other questions.
Silence is golden. I would actually give GW a thumbs up for keeping as tight of a lip as they did on this one. Seriously we usually have leaks and fake potato photos of everything, but I don't think I saw a peep about this over the last few weeks.
Theophony wrote: It sucked that they didn't have clear communications, or really any communications in the case of CC, but adding more noise (Which is what it would have been) was not going to help.
Being fair to GW, their customer services responded to emails sent by those who made the effort. My own email reply has turned out to be true; "we are sorry but it was a limited run. While Cursed City might return later, possibly in a different form, we sadly do not have any more information at this time."
Being hard on GW, if their customer services are allowed to provide such information then there is no reason they couldn't have done the same on Warhammer Community to reach out to their wider customer base. Leaving their customers to stew for roughly eight months was poor form, as Youtube channels - most of whom didn't bother to get in contact with customer services - were speaking in GW's abscence, most of which was either insult to injury or just expressing outright anger.
Or community channels generating videos using their free review copy while (correctly but with poor empathy) telling folks who had missed out that they had no “right “ to buy something that a company has for sale.
Technically correct but definitely felt like an I’m alright, Jack moment.
Danny76 wrote: The expansions are just likely things we wouldn’t even think of etc..
Yeah. If they go a similar route as with Blackstone Fortress, I feel like we'll rather see a band of Fimir arrive via the Ulfenkarn sewers than just a bunch of other undead.
Theophony wrote: While I don't think they didn't say anything so they could sell the character sprues for a ridiculous price, I do think someone in their offices decided to try and make the best of a bad situation. I think with all the Covid issues: all the shipping problems along with the power problems of the new facility and lockdowns I think they just froze. They didn't know what to do, so they did nothing and didn't want to say something to have it blow up in their faces. It blew up anyway, but at least this way they didn't compound the problem by promising something and being turned into a liar due to other issues later. It sucked that they didn't have clear communications, or really any communications in the case of CC, but adding more noise (Which is what it would have been) was not going to help.
If they had said that CC would return, they would have been innundated with questions of WHEN? Why are you bothering releasing XXX when you should focus on CC? Will I still get it for the same price? Why Aren't there Space Marines in it? or a million other questions.
Silence is golden. I would actually give GW a thumbs up for keeping as tight of a lip as they did on this one. Seriously we usually have leaks and fake potato photos of everything, but I don't think I saw a peep about this over the last few weeks.
This is exactly what happened.
Bottom line, they oversold the game, didn't have enough units on-hand, then COVID caught them with their pants down in both production, and in the production facility move. Add that to the printing shortage, and it hit them harder then they anticipated...
If you read between the lines, it appeared that they didn't have the facility up to speed to even begin in the COVID environment.
Don't expect anyone to admit to that, even if it's a natural progression, it's not one to cop up to.
Also I suspect that at the time they might not have known what the future was going to be for CC. Considering they released the evil faction models clearly early that suggests that for a time CC was dead in the water. It might even be a bit like the Cities of Sigmar - something that at management level was dead and then someone passionate pulled a few strings, spotted a way to bring it back and built a case that proved it could be done and would be profitable etc...
We might never get an answer and it might be different staff at different levels will give different answers based on what they know.
It could have been handled better, but in the end CC is returning, we are getting a second chance and its getting expansions. It has risen from the grave
Danny76 wrote: The expansions are just likely things we wouldn’t even think of etc..
Yeah. If they go a similar route as with Blackstone Fortress, I feel like we'll rather see a band of Fimir arrive via the Ulfenkarn sewers than just a bunch of other undead.
Polonius wrote: I'd guess they cheat the price up 10-20 bucks, but trying to predict GW's pricing is always a mystery.
Depending on how deep a bench of expansions they have planned, they may keep the base box price low to attract more buyers. It probably also depends if they are going to produce CC for a while, or if they are making one more big run.
GW has never in my recollection lowered the price of a kit or set once the price has been revealed
Which is a fairly sensible move when they are in a market which doesn't depreciate over time. GW aren't alone, pretty much all the model manufacturers I can think of generally set a price, stick to that price and over the years the price only ever goes up.
Now sure many others DO have sales periods and sometimes very big sales, but the model market is long term products that last for years to decades. It can't take the same marketing approach of DVDs and such where prices are slashed fast and the focus is always on the newest highest priced release and old stuff is old stock to be cleared fast to make way for the new.
Heck the only time we see prices going down in wargaming tends to be when the firm is struggling (for whatever reason) and has to shift stock to try and generate hype and to stay afloat. So its generally an unhealthy sign that something is wrong.
or when companies replace old kits/books with upgrades new ones
as if the old kit is replaced by the new ones, the old ones are on sale or drop in price (specially if material changes)
same as if old books are replaced with a new Edition
I think GW lost momentum and faith in Cursed City after their horrid first attempt at a release and in all honesty they probably should have brought it back under a different name then trying to revive something that they killed so horribly. I wanted to give Cursed City a chance but didn't get the first box.. Now it is over for me as the hype is over and it seems only a 2nd glance for GW.
angel of death 007 wrote: I think GW lost momentum and faith in Cursed City after their horrid first attempt at a release and in all honesty they probably should have brought it back under a different name then trying to revive something that they killed so horribly. I wanted to give Cursed City a chance but didn't get the first box.. Now it is over for me as the hype is over and it seems only a 2nd glance for GW.
I've always viewed this as a more business orientated decision. Heroquest is about to be re-released which might attract income that might have otherwise been spent at GW. CC may well be an attempt for GW to keep that income.
angel of death 007 wrote: I think GW lost momentum and faith in Cursed City after their horrid first attempt at a release and in all honesty they probably should have brought it back under a different name then trying to revive something that they killed so horribly. I wanted to give Cursed City a chance but didn't get the first box.. Now it is over for me as the hype is over and it seems only a 2nd glance for GW.
I've always viewed this as a more business orientated decision. Heroquest is about to be re-released which might attract income that might have otherwise been spent at GW. CC may well be an attempt for GW to keep that income.
Heroquest had a strong run and name recognition. Cursed City just had a crash a burn. I don't see the similiarities.
angel of death 007 wrote: I think GW lost momentum and faith in Cursed City after their horrid first attempt at a release and in all honesty they probably should have brought it back under a different name then trying to revive something that they killed so horribly. I wanted to give Cursed City a chance but didn't get the first box.. Now it is over for me as the hype is over and it seems only a 2nd glance for GW.
I don't really see the point in renaming it? If it's called Unholy Municipality people are still going to know what it is.
Unless they do something like rewriting the rules at the same time, but I don't imagine they're going to do that.
angel of death 007 wrote: I think GW lost momentum and faith in Cursed City after their horrid first attempt at a release and in all honesty they probably should have brought it back under a different name then trying to revive something that they killed so horribly. I wanted to give Cursed City a chance but didn't get the first box.. Now it is over for me as the hype is over and it seems only a 2nd glance for GW.
Hype is over? It's a boardgame with some guys and gals fighting masses of Undead. Not some freaks in a labyrinth. Or Chaos warriors in the sewers. Or random opponents in every room (orcs, skaven, Fimir, bats, goblins...). No. Undead. And only Undead. You can't go wrong with that.
As far as I'm concerned, the expansions may be very well anything from an expansion box to a White Dwarf article giving rules for existing miniatures.
There's actually rules working very close like old Warhammer Quest's random dungeons in Cursed City, I wouldn't mind having a game mode focusing more on these rules.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I wouldn’t say no to a reprint of the card packs, particularly the one I missed.
Completionist weirdo right here!
All I am missing is the Abominable Intellect deck...and while I am a completionist at heart, I am content on not spending hundreds of dollars for a deck of cards...
Still, it is only cards...it can't cost that much to do a print run of 1000 or so.
Well, whenever I took a look in the shop in the past year(s), BSF was there (albeit not the German version or any expansions), so the WarCom announcement was kind of confusing. Maybe it was OOP in other regions?
BSF is a good game and worth it at the current price. With a bit of discount you really can't go wrong
I'd recommend the extra effort to locate the 2019 annual and The Dreaded Ambull, as they add a lot more bang for buck. It made BSF feel like The Mines of Moria in space; in the end it all comes down to Espern and the Ambull...
"RRRRRROOOOOOOAAAAARRRRR!!!!"
"Seriously ol'chap...you shall not pass."
...which is more like Gnaws and John Steed, but you get the idea. Just do as I command and treat yourself already!
Ah BSF. If you're getting promo from Warcom, might the day ever come when I get another shot at the Ambull I missed?
Had it gone to "Last Chance to Buy" before simply disappearing forever, I would have known there was a risk of losing my shot; unfortunately, GW doesn't effectively use "Last Chance to Buy."
I'd buy another Zoat or two as well- I'd like to be able to run a small zoat crew for a narrative arc with radical Ordo Xenos types.
I'd be tempted if they let us know about the expansions coming back. As I got into the hobby about halfway through the BSF run some of the expansions were already OOS and the thought of enjoying it and then not being able to get the expansions was frustrating. I fear if this re-release is to gauge the interest in continual support of BSF it may not be enough as people wait to see how much support it gets.
It doesn’t really need support. The base game is enjoyable and complete, even if none of the expansions get rereleased, and I find that unlikely. As a self contained board game it also doesn’t need on going balance support and constant fiddling with options and points costs.
I wasn't arguing for balance changes as due to the nature of the game that is unnecessary.
Ascension is now OOP despite containing the end of the game (or that is what GW made it out to be). I'd be very weary of buying a narrative game where yes a game can be played from rules stand point completely with just the base box but the story is only wrapped up in an unavailable expansion.
Not Curse City related, but since we're talking about Blackstone Fortress, I wonder if GW will re-release the "Servants of the Abyss" set, which was basically just half of the chaos fodder (since the main set just has two sprues of those.)
Given that the original set was a pretty good price, but the more recent releases are ridiculously priced (Radukar's Court, the characters/units bundles from Indomitus and AOS, etc), I imagine they'd just jack the price way, way up.
The BSF core set was up for sale at GW long after the expansions had vanished to eBay. As such, I really wouldn't hold out much hope for the expansions to come back.
The BSF core game wraps up its' story as is. Its like you can watch Alien without ever watching ALIENS or Alien3, as opposed to Fellowship of the Ring which is definitely left unresolved and relies on watching Towers and King for the complete story.
For £95 its a complete experience, but if you can get it with discount then I'd say don't miss out. Warhammer Quest is only getting more expensive and it could be a while before we see another 40K quest game.
Only thing I'd recommend is to remove the combat cards with four enemy groups as the combats can tend to drag on sometimes, especially without a player to take control of the hostiles. Maybe dial down the number of exploration cards too, maybe 2 combat and 2 challenge cards for your first expedition.
I find the idea of it not be available odd as they've already stated they're making expansions. Not much point making expansions without a core set to play them with. Unless every expansion will be MTO only.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I find the idea of it not be available odd as they've already stated they're making expansions. Not much point making expansions without a core set to play them with. Unless every expansion will be MTO only.
Well. On that one. And this post is entirely speculative.
We know when first released it sold out in a time period which, if transposed into lengths of measurement would be approx 2/3rds of the length of a Gnat’s baw hair, there are a defined number out there in the wild.
We do not know what that number is. But GW absolutely 100% do know. And they seem confident that a MTO period will pay off in terms of volumes of order.
Expansions? I’m going to predict that there will be So Many available for instant fulfilment, but with an overflow MTO tacked on, so as few folk as possible miss out.
The nerves for me, and I dare say others, stem from BSF’s expansions not being revealed as Inherently Limited. There are of course pros and cons of that. If it’s not listed as limited, folk can miss out. But if it is announced as limited, the filthy dirty parasites known as scalpers sharpen their credit cards and do what they can to rip off as many folk as possible for as much munneh as possible.
MTO, whilst far from ideal (ideal being a general supply) is at least a somewhat not entirely disgruntled medium. The folks who miss out miss out due to an unfortunate timing/payday junction.
Don’t think you’ll be able to grab a copy this March? There’s no need to worry – Cursed City will be receiving a full relaunch later this year, along with some juicy new expansions.
This should settle the question what happens after the two-week MTO window.
Seems this is a preliminary MTO, with a full release coming later.
WarCom wrote: Don’t think you’ll be able to grab a copy this March? There’s no need to worry – Cursed City will be receiving a full relaunch later this year, along with some juicy new expansions. Whether you pick up the box now or take your time to prepare for Ulfenkarn’s salvation, there are many more creepy quests and frightful foes waiting in the game’s future,** as Radukar’s bloodthirsty ambitions cause the streets to run even redder.
Meh. This looked amazing as a stepping stone to the new vampire counts, but in retrospect everything went in the wrong direction (including the weird scaling and basing issues on the vampires), the tree zombies, the wolf-breeders, dragon-vampires, etc.
At this point I'd rather just accept this got bollixed up, and we just move on to the next try at WQ. (or, gasp, something different)
The fact that they say deliveries will be in May almost makes me think that a huge container full of CC stock (or some key part of it) was somehow lost in transit for AGES or locked up in a container.
At least that would explain the fast turn around when GW has to print cart stock overseas.
That said I'm glad I didn't cave into getting Eldar this month - not that I don't want them or that I won't end up getting them (at higher full release prices of course); but CC trumps Eldar as the Eldar will be around for AGES and AGES
lord_blackfang wrote: Oh certainly western civilization will fall before Eldar get another refresh.
Don't jinx it. There's still a week to go until this refresh hits the shelves, and the way things are going....
But back to cheery fantasy of Warhammer I'm really interested to see what the expansions are. This relaunch might even motivate me to get the Soulblight models out of my pile of shame.
Remember when they brought back 3rd edition Space Hulk for the third time but added new parts at a higher price?
I wonder if they're going to do that with Cursed City for the permanent version. Add another tile or two so we all have to rebuy it again.
lord_blackfang wrote: Oh certainly western civilization will fall before Eldar get another refresh.
Don't jinx it. There's still a week to go until this refresh hits the shelves, and the way things are going....
But back to cheery fantasy of Warhammer I'm really interested to see what the expansions are. This relaunch might even motivate me to get the Soulblight models out of my pile of shame.
Don't worry, civilization fell decades ago and we've all just been going through the motions because Death won't take us until we finish our backlogs.
No One Important wrote: Remember when they brought back 3rd edition Space Hulk for the third time but added new parts at a higher price?
I wonder if they're going to do that with Cursed City for the permanent version. Add another tile or two so we all have to rebuy it again.
I doubt it. The Space Hulk releases were basically "one and done" type deals. So each one was basically a stand alone product.
Cursed City isn't quite the same, its a base game which expects to get several expansions as separate releases. Now what might happen is that when CC goes back on general sale after this promotional period, it will do so with a price rise (as most other things have gone up as well) and alongside its first expansion - which might well feature a few models we have already but with their campaign, card stock and potentially other things (esp light side stuff as so far that isn't bound to a battletome like the vampire side stuff is).
SamusDrake wrote: A 2-week made to order? Does that mean it won't be available after those two weeks?
At the bottom of the article, it says (emphasis added):
Don’t think you’ll be able to grab a copy this March? There’s no need to worry – Cursed City will be receiving a full relaunch later this year, along with some juicy new expansions. Whether you pick up the box now or take your time to prepare for Ulfenkarn’s salvation, there are many more creepy quests and frightful foes waiting in the game’s future,** as Radukar’s bloodthirsty ambitions cause the streets to run even redder.
So this made-to-order is pretty much for people who want it now, and to help prevent scalpers from price gouging.
lord_blackfang wrote: Oh certainly western civilization will fall before Eldar get another refresh.
Don't jinx it. There's still a week to go until this refresh hits the shelves, and the way things are going....
But back to cheery fantasy of Warhammer I'm really interested to see what the expansions are. This relaunch might even motivate me to get the Soulblight models out of my pile of shame.
I mean the underdogs are currently whipping the pants of the assumed winners. Much like Eldar! :p
Overread wrote: The fact that they say deliveries will be in May almost makes me think that a huge container full of CC stock (or some key part of it) was somehow lost in transit for AGES or locked up in a container.
Or a warehouse in China waiting until shipping prices started to come back down again....
Just got an email from Wayland - CC is not just going MOT on the GW Website but also through distributors as well. Wayland are already taking pre-orders with 20% off
One of my friends has it and has played it through.
Says it gets very repetitive very quickly.
When I asked about my picking up a copy, he said unless I want the miniatures, not to bother.
True. BSF is also very repetitive.
I really miss the quality game games they released in Betrayal at Calth and Deathwatch: Overkill. I still have BaC because it’s just so well done game-wise.
privateer4hire wrote: True. BSF is also very repetitive.
I really miss the quality game games they released in Betrayal at Calth and Deathwatch: Overkill. I still have BaC because it’s just so well done game-wise.
I think the best way to play Cursed City is to run it with a DM, controlling the undead. The issue with the gameplay is that the monsters are too predicable, in what they do.
My copy arrived today from a third party seller. Looks identical to the unboxing videos of the first printing, except missing the errata for the assembly guide and the flyer for the book - which at least suggests this is a new printing rather than stock they've had sat in a warehouse for a while and are now being allowed to sell again. Copyright dates all still 2020.
I think we'd come to the silent conclusion that it wasn't an IP/Copyright issue but something shipping, supply or otherwise internal to GW. If there had been a copyright or other strike we'd have expected to have heard about it at some level even if from outside of GW from the rights holder contesting.
Interesting that they seem to be fulfilling orders from third parties at the same time as their own webstore. I would have thought it would have been (logistically) easier to batch them, but whatever; mine arrived yesterday and now I have to decide to assemble the undead hordes or my Avatar first…
If we ordered less or equal (or near enough) to the bulk of product that GW was able to have ready by this last week then it stands to reason that they'd ship it all in one big go. No sense having it hanging around the warehouse.
They have done broken up orders before, eg many of the limited edition models have often had multiple waves broken up over regions. It all depends on GW's back end and how they approach something. CC might have had a long period at GW prior to the launch with a lot of stock being made and held ready for a huge order wave.
Gw might have over-estimated demand and wound up with excess; which is fine as it will likely sell easily over the following years. They might even have intentionally done it that way so that they'd hopefully get it all out in one big go easily.
Not forgettting that this wave is going to directly impact the next expansion for the game. So the more they can get out early in this wave the more likely orders they'll have for the first expansion. Also the last thing they want is to push and promote sale of an expansion when people are still waiting on their core set to arrive.
To be fair there's not really a good reason to get rid of Blackstone. Both are board-game style experiences so can easily be on the market at the same time. If anything I'd hope Blackstone would get some re-releases of its expansions to go with its continued core set popularity as the expansions are basically all gone from the market now.
It also bodes well for GW perhaps returning to it and giving a fresh expansion (even if I'd rather like to see the next 40K Quest being a recreation of Space Crusader)
Overread wrote: To be fair there's not really a good reason to get rid of Blackstone. Both are board-game style experiences so can easily be on the market at the same time. If anything I'd hope Blackstone would get some re-releases of its expansions to go with its continued core set popularity as the expansions are basically all gone from the market now.
It also bodes well for GW perhaps returning to it and giving a fresh expansion (even if I'd rather like to see the next 40K Quest being a recreation of Space Crusader)
Space crusade! now youre talking. hopfully Hasbro will not get it and put fish men in it!
Overread wrote: To be fair there's not really a good reason to get rid of Blackstone. Both are board-game style experiences so can easily be on the market at the same time. If anything I'd hope Blackstone would get some re-releases of its expansions to go with its continued core set popularity as the expansions are basically all gone from the market now.
It also bodes well for GW perhaps returning to it and giving a fresh expansion (even if I'd rather like to see the next 40K Quest being a recreation of Space Crusader)
Space crusade! now youre talking. hopfully Hasbro will not get it and put fish men in it!
Neat thing about Space Crusade is that its not Space Hulk so you can have ALL The factions appear, and new ones as well; and its more than just stealers and terminators and you get the same kind of gameplay. So its just way more varied and interesting.
Overread wrote: To be fair there's not really a good reason to get rid of Blackstone. Both are board-game style experiences so can easily be on the market at the same time. If anything I'd hope Blackstone would get some re-releases of its expansions to go with its continued core set popularity as the expansions are basically all gone from the market now.
It also bodes well for GW perhaps returning to it and giving a fresh expansion (even if I'd rather like to see the next 40K Quest being a recreation of Space Crusader)
Blackstone is still a lot of fun and, yes it’d be nice if they reprinted the expansions (or just did a made to order for them). I’m not sure about whether it needs new expansions. If you’ve successfully played through the full campaign your characters are game breakingly powerful by the end of it.
I’d love to see a new 40K based Warhammer Quest though. Hopefully, when Cursed City has gone through its full, intended cycle, a new 40K setting will be on the cards.
Troll trader has some 'minis removed' boxes of cursed city for £25 if anybody was interested in just the game but didn't want the modern GW large sized minis
Overread wrote: To be fair there's not really a good reason to get rid of Blackstone. Both are board-game style experiences so can easily be on the market at the same time. If anything I'd hope Blackstone would get some re-releases of its expansions to go with its continued core set popularity as the expansions are basically all gone from the market now.
It also bodes well for GW perhaps returning to it and giving a fresh expansion (even if I'd rather like to see the next 40K Quest being a recreation of Space Crusader)
Space crusade! now youre talking. hopfully Hasbro will not get it and put fish men in it!
Well, they will. Three at least because old Space Crusade included three Genestealers.
