Voss wrote: The 'nuance' they mentioned a few times will be ranged units.
That's my wild speculation- that they _won't_ be flanderized into 100% dumb melee brute axemen all the time.
It gave me a little hope when they were talking about an 80 berserker list and called it 'boring'
---
I also hope double fight gets removed. That concept is just game-wrecking.
I still would like the choice of an 80 beserkers list being somewhat viable, that’s something that kind of annoys me when the “boring” choice is something a good chunk of people do like playing but it’s slammed into the ground because of the opinions of others.
New khorne berzerkers is a given. I desperately want to see red butcher models and Angron. Super stoked that they finally gave world eaters their own codex.
You misunderstand. I meant a new version of that model of slaughterbrute I posted.
Imagine walking into your local shop & seeing an embiggened plastic version of that model rendered in 2022 quality on the shelf.
Voss wrote: The 'nuance' they mentioned a few times will be ranged units.
That's my wild speculation- that they _won't_ be flanderized into 100% dumb melee brute axemen all the time.
It gave me a little hope when they were talking about an 80 berserker list and called it 'boring'
---
I also hope double fight gets removed. That concept is just game-wrecking.
I still would like the choice of an 80 beserkers list being somewhat viable, that’s something that kind of annoys me when the “boring” choice is something a good chunk of people do like playing but it’s slammed into the ground because of the opinions of others.
I suppose that's one way to look at it. I'm just tired of decades of axe idiots because GW somehow lost the original vision of what Khorne was. (He'll accept blood and skulls from the sniper, the back alley thug or the engineer just as readily as the axe murderer)
And from a balance perspective, a pile of melee-only guys is difficult. It frankly shouldn't work if the basic game is functioning as designed, because it means giving that one unit ludicrous levels of speed, toughness and/or killing power, and putting the points cost lower than it should be so that it has a chance of winning. That's just bad design.
From an experienced greentider, you don’t usually win for those reasons. You’re skewing, making it so that the standard tac list suffers against you, but you’re going to suffer against some other forms of list.
Honestly 80 beserkers is easier to balance than greentide too, that’s going to be roughly 40(or more depending on the edition) models less.
Also, with the whole “game working as designed” part, name one part of 9th that worked, like actually worked very very well. I can’t name any.
Berserkers confirmed
Red Butcher Terminators?
Some Sort of Ranged Berserkers?
Maybe the long awaited Chaos Bikers?
A few unique characters?
It'll be interesting to see what they do. So far between 1K sons and Death Guard, I haven't really been all that impressed with the mono-dex models for Chaos.
Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote: From an experienced greentider, you don’t usually win for those reasons. You’re skewing, making it so that the standard tac list suffers against you, but you’re going to suffer against some other forms of list.
Honestly 80 beserkers is easier to balance than greentide too, that’s going to be roughly 40(or more depending on the edition) models less.
Also, with the whole “game working as designed” part, name one part of 9th that worked, like actually worked very very well. I can’t name any.
The detachment system works fine. It does exactly what it's supposed to do - give you multiple ways to build a force.
Crusade works fine. Ok, granted, it works even better when the Codex in question is a 9th ed one & adds some faction specific stuff. And not all Codex content is made equally.... But the base system works fine.
Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote: From an experienced greentider, you don’t usually win for those reasons. You’re skewing, making it so that the standard tac list suffers against you, but you’re going to suffer against some other forms of list.
Yes. Skewing is exactly my point- it is poor design to allow it to warp games to that degree.
Honestly 80 beserkers is easier to balance than greentide too, that’s going to be roughly 40(or more depending on the edition) models less.
Double the wound count and armor of contempt seems to make that more difficult to balance, not easier. Especially with the sheer weight and quality of attacks for the models that make it to the enemy.
Also, with the whole “game working as designed” part, name one part of 9th that worked, like actually worked very very well. I can’t name any.
Sorry, no. That's not my point or a rabbit hole this thread needs to go down. We can do an edition war somewhere else.
I was think most of the posts have already hit on what we will probably see. I for one am curious what kind of priest unit we might get. World Eaters can currently take Dark Apostles, but maybe they'll be something more akin to the Blades of Khorne's Slaughterpriest.
What I'm more worried about is what we might lose. I really hope that stuff like the CSM daemon engines are still available. I have no doubt about the Lord of Skulls, but what about the fiends, disco lords, Venomcrawlers, Cult of Destruction units, Havocs, Raptors, Warp Talons, etc.? What about the new cultists, Torments, and Accursed? I really don't want the World Eaters to lose all that stuff like the Death Guard did.
ccs wrote:They'll make a new version of this
guy, the original Bloodslaughterer of Khorne:
There's an enemy in a new videogame called Tormented Souls that looks almost exactly like this.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Bring on the Cannon of Khorne!!!
I personally want to see the Tower of Skulls come back:
Gert wrote: A return of something like the Blood Tithe table from KDK would be nice. Great book that was.
Yes. But it was the opposite of World Eaters. It was a religious cult worshipping Bloodthirsters as gods, which World Eaters don't. Which is the reason the book didn't have VotLW, Kharn, also not Karanak or Skarbrand. None of those were googly-eyed religious types that would work for a Daemonkin cult.
Yes. But it was the opposite of World Eaters. It was a religious cult worshipping Bloodthirsters as gods, which World Eaters don't. Which is the reason the book didn't have VotLW, Kharn, also not Karanak or Skarbrand. None of those were googly-eyed religious types that would work for a Daemonkin cult.
So you're saying that the Blood God doesn't bestow boons upon devout followers who slaughter in his name? Bit weird but OK. I mean who needs a fun and interesting mechanic right?
Togusa wrote: So far between 1K sons and Death Guard, I haven't really been all that impressed with the mono-dex models for Chaos.
In terms of sculpts or rules? They might not have the best rules, and I might wish some kits were closer to a proper multi-pose kit, but the overall sculpts have been of pretty good quality, I thought.
mrFickle wrote: 2. This is building us up for the real prize that is the the emperors children codex
The stream quite clearly said that while it's not out of question that they might eventually give them their own codex, there is absolutely nothing planned in that regard.
mrFickle wrote: 2. This is building us up for the real prize that is the the emperors children codex
The stream quite clearly said that while it's not out of question that they might eventually give them their own codex, there is absolutely nothing planned in that regard.
While I'm not always inclined to believe what GW says, I wouldn't be surprised if we were waiting till the later half of 10th before we see any EC stuff.
If they were thinking about it at all, there would have been some quirky "you might never know" hint or similar. The way he said it, it was quite obvious that there was absolutely nothing official going on in that regard - which means that it won't be happening for at least the next three years.
Jidmah wrote: If they were thinking about it at all, there would have been some quirky "you might never know" hint or similar. The way he said it, it was quite obvious that there was absolutely nothing official going on in that regard - which means that it won't be happening for at least the next three years.
I'm mildly relieved because there's a bigger gap between the codex coming out and my current models being made invalid.
Yes. But it was the opposite of World Eaters. It was a religious cult worshipping Bloodthirsters as gods, which World Eaters don't. Which is the reason the book didn't have VotLW, Kharn, also not Karanak or Skarbrand. None of those were googly-eyed religious types that would work for a Daemonkin cult.
So you're saying that the Blood God doesn't bestow boons upon devout followers who slaughter in his name? Bit weird but OK. I mean who needs a fun and interesting mechanic right?
Mechanic is fine. Just that the Daemonkin background is very different from World Eaters. It'd be like using Custodes lore for Battle Sisters, just because they both have the Emperor in there somewhere.
mrFickle wrote: 2. This is building us up for the real prize that is the the emperors children codex
The stream quite clearly said that while it's not out of question that they might eventually give them their own codex, there is absolutely nothing planned in that regard.
Which just means they aren't ready to say it. GW could say next month "EC coming 2023 Q1!" and it wouldn't even be that weird.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jidmah wrote: If they were thinking about it at all, there would have been some quirky "you might never know" hint or similar. The way he said it, it was quite obvious that there was absolutely nothing official going on in that regard - which means that it won't be happening for at least the next three years.
GW has history of flat out denying stuff coming out that's rumoured only for literally week later announce the product...
Were it up to me, Codex: WE would be based on the Armies of Khorne lists from Slaves to Darkness. Teeth of Khorne, Librarians who just count skulls, Apothecaries who are more aptly named butchers, and Daemons in the ranks.
What we get will probably be more like Codex: DG. Lots of characters, infantry, and some unique vehicle / daemon engine models. We'll still have options for Preds / LRs / Rhinos / Defilers, but there will be no special benefit to using them.
What I hope is that the Codex somehow explains how Berzerkers operate as close combat troops in an age of devastating ranged weaponry. The thing that's always perplexed me about WE is why they have not all been shot to pieces yet.
Togusa wrote: So far between 1K sons and Death Guard, I haven't really been all that impressed with the mono-dex models for Chaos.
In terms of sculpts or rules? They might not have the best rules, and I might wish some kits were closer to a proper multi-pose kit, but the overall sculpts have been of pretty good quality, I thought.
Thousand Sons are okay for kits. Whatever happened to Death Guard is just inexcusable.
Togusa wrote: So far between 1K sons and Death Guard, I haven't really been all that impressed with the mono-dex models for Chaos.
In terms of sculpts or rules? They might not have the best rules, and I might wish some kits were closer to a proper multi-pose kit, but the overall sculpts have been of pretty good quality, I thought.
Thousand Sons are okay for kits. Whatever happened to Death Guard is just inexcusable.
i'd say its the opposite really.
Thousand Sons get :
Exalted sorcered
Ahriman
Rubrics (zero dynamism)
Termis (Zero dynamism)
Magnus
Deathguard get :
Lord Felthius
Lord of virulence
Blightbringer
Plaguecaster
Tallyman
Typhus
Lord of contagion
Blightspawn
Putrifier
Plague surgeon
Plague marines
Poxwalkers
Blightlords
Deathshroud
Bloat drone
Myphitic
Plagueburst
Mortarion
Sure, the loadouts of Plaguemarines and blightlords got fethed but we get a lot more models in DG (and most importantly, theyre not just copypasted poses)
Voss wrote: But... it isn't slang? With GW and Khorne, it is about killing people with axes.
I feel like someone just wandered into a treadhead thread and randomly announced that water can come in tanks, too.
I mean the name tank came from the fact that they were disguised in transport manifests as water tanks, so saying tanks hold water is the original idea.
Voss wrote: That's my wild speculation- that they _won't_ be flanderized into 100% dumb melee brute axemen all the time.
Man I really hope so. I hate to used the term "flanderized" but it is definitely what has happened to Khorne. It has been a long time since he had any degree of meaningful nuance. Plus, how the hell do Khornate forces even recruit and sustain themselves? Hopefully this marks a change.
Togusa wrote: So far between 1K sons and Death Guard, I haven't really been all that impressed with the mono-dex models for Chaos.
In terms of sculpts or rules? They might not have the best rules, and I might wish some kits were closer to a proper multi-pose kit, but the overall sculpts have been of pretty good quality, I thought.
Thousand Sons are okay for kits. Whatever happened to Death Guard is just inexcusable.
Not a fan of the Death Guard sculpts? We did get Sassy Nurgling out of them at a bare minimum, and that's good for everyone
Togusa wrote: So far between 1K sons and Death Guard, I haven't really been all that impressed with the mono-dex models for Chaos.
In terms of sculpts or rules? They might not have the best rules, and I might wish some kits were closer to a proper multi-pose kit, but the overall sculpts have been of pretty good quality, I thought.
Thousand Sons are okay for kits. Whatever happened to Death Guard is just inexcusable.
Not a fan of the Death Guard sculpts? We did get Sassy Nurgling out of them at a bare minimum, and that's good for everyone
Also the Nurgling wearing a Plague Marine helmet but that's besides the point.
Togusa wrote: So far between 1K sons and Death Guard, I haven't really been all that impressed with the mono-dex models for Chaos.
In terms of sculpts or rules? They might not have the best rules, and I might wish some kits were closer to a proper multi-pose kit, but the overall sculpts have been of pretty good quality, I thought.
Thousand Sons are okay for kits. Whatever happened to Death Guard is just inexcusable.
i'd say its the opposite really.
Thousand Sons get :
Exalted sorcered
Ahriman
Rubrics (zero dynamism)
Termis (Zero dynamism)
Magnus
Deathguard get :
Lord Felthius
Lord of virulence
Blightbringer
Plaguecaster
Tallyman
Typhus
Lord of contagion
Blightspawn
Putrifier
Plague surgeon
Plague marines
Poxwalkers
Blightlords
Deathshroud
Bloat drone
Myphitic
Plagueburst
Mortarion
Sure, the loadouts of Plaguemarines and blightlords got fethed but we get a lot more models in DG (and most importantly, theyre not just copypasted poses)
Quality > Quantity
You also forgot the birdmen and Mutalith, even if they're cross compatible with AoS.
Also the dynamics for the Plague Marines and Blightlords is God awful and makes the kits a pain for multiple models that don't look the same. Some y'all complained about Intercessors, but this is 1000× worse.
Yeah I'd take a 1KSons release over a DG release, but we know that doesn't happen anymore.
The new 'Zerkers will be 8 models per box (for the price of 10!), and have a convoluted list of wargear options all determined by the exact amount of weapons on the sprue.
The Power Cosmic wrote: Ooh, their special terrain piece will be a literal throne made of skulls! Everything killed within 12" will give the army a better boost.
Is special terrain even a thing anymore?
(Though amusingly the AoS Skull Altar is in the 40k section (though temporarily out of stock in the US), and the Noctilith Stargate is Sold Out and Not Available Online.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah I'd take a 1KSons release over a DG release, but we know that doesn't happen anymore.
The new 'Zerkers will be 8 models per box (for the price of 10!), and have a convaluted list of wargear options all determined by the exact amount of weapons on the sprue.
Legit my only request is for them to be able to take that new two handed Chainaxe CSM got or an Eviscerator. Otherwise I'm fine with just Plasma Pistols and Chainaxes standard.
Quality > Quantity
You also forgot the birdmen and Mutalith, even if they're cross compatible with AoS.
Also the dynamics for the Plague Marines and Blightlords is God awful and makes the kits a pain for multiple models that don't look the same. Some y'all complained about Intercessors, but this is 1000× worse.
I personally think the DG models look much better than the ultra static copypasted rubrics and scarabs.
I didnt count the birdment and Mutalith since theyre not specifically made for Thousand Sons .
If they stick with the "power levels are a thing now, and everything costs the same amount no matter what" schtick, what effect does that have on summons? Do they just get free units back every time they complete the action, ala reanimated Necrons?
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: If they stick with the "power levels are a thing now, and everything costs the same amount no matter what" schtick, what effect does that have on summons? Do they just get free units back every time they complete the action, ala reanimated Necrons?
just make "Demon Summoning" a rule that lets you soup demons without breaking purity bonuses
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: If they stick with the "power levels are a thing now, and everything costs the same amount no matter what" schtick, what effect does that have on summons? Do they just get free units back every time they complete the action, ala reanimated Necrons?
just make "Demon Summoning" a rule that lets you soup demons without breaking purity bonuses
Any daemons, or just daemons specific to that army's allegiance? Because I feel like that could get into the weeds quick.
It should go without saying he means daemons of the appropriate alignment.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: The new 'Zerkers will be 8 models per box (for the price of 10!)
You heard it here folks; HCCC is making a confident prediction that GW will improve on established practices with an upcoming release, and a CSM one no less! (After all, Plague Marines are 7 for the price of 10, so 8 would be an improvement!)
NinthMusketeer wrote: It should go without saying he means daemons of the appropriate alignment.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: The new 'Zerkers will be 8 models per box (for the price of 10!)
You heard it here folks; HCCC is making a confident prediction that GW will improve on established practices with an upcoming release, and a CSM one no less! (After all, Plague Marines are 7 for the price of 10, so 8 would be an improvement!)
Still worried it's going to be ridiculously flanderised, full of nonsense called Bloodbath Axewankers and so on, with not so much as a bolt pistol to them.
I just want to see ranged capabilities. Too often Khorne followers are just guys with swords and axes yeeting themselves at foes. Khorne is a god of war, and should involve all sorts of weaponry - maybe a focus on ones that spill blood like solid projectile guns, frag shells, bolters, autocannons and the like, but las weaponry should still exist as well. Melee specialists (Beserkers, etc) should definitely exist in the army, and everything should be roughly "above average" in terms of melee (so that even the most range centric unit in the army can be a bully unit in melee), but shooting should exist.
Give them artillery units that lob fragmentation ordnance at their foes, let them take targetters on their own units to allow them to rain death into melees destroying both friend (likely the Khorne themed cultist unit but let marines and the like take them too) and foe. Lets get some Marines toting heavy bolters with big ass chain-bayonets on them, or a tank with a giant plasma cannon on it used to melt down walls, with cultists and the rare prisoner chained to the plasma coills so that Khorne gets his tithe even when it misfires.
Basically instead of S tier in melee, and then nothing in everything else, I hope they go for A+ or S- tier in melee, but B tier in mid range and maybe like C+ in long range.
I'd like to see a unit with flamers. Call them Wrathmurderdisciples of Skullathrax or angry burning brands or whatever. These guys remember how Kharn fractured the Legion on Skalathrax with his flamer. They're really angry about it so they like to set things on fire. Also, if you burn someone you have an easier time collecting his skull if that's your thing.
I agree with the flanderization of khorne in general and it shouldnt happen in a hypothetical general khorne book ala aos (where it does indeed still happen). However havent world eaters always been one of the most flanderized melee psycopaths from day one?
Im not that opposed to the logical conclusion of all this warrior and combat worship being a frothing headcase to be honest, quite 40k! but the csm book at least should have a bit more potential nuance for its khorne forces.
I can't speak about the pre 5ed books, because I never read any, but they don't seem to have a "mild" streak of being crazy berserker, which slowly gets turned in to a "strong" streak of being mindless berzerkers. If you always were a mindless berzerker, then no flanderization accurs
Karol wrote: I can't speak about the pre 5ed books, because I never read any, but they don't seem to have a "mild" streak of being crazy berserker, which slowly gets turned in to a "strong" streak of being mindless berzerkers. If you always were a mindless berzerker, then no flanderization accurs
Khorne has a pretty onesided background since at least 4th edition, unfortunately. There are merely small references to honorable fight in some of the descriptions of relics or Warlord traits, but the main background in the Daemon Codex outright states that Khorne is about mindless murder all the time.
I mean I have some hope because Plague Marines got like, 30 melee weapon options - which wasn't 'out of character' by any means but it was still a switch-up from previous incarnations.
blood reaper wrote: Early World Eaters carried Bolters into battle, and were not universally carrying melee weapons. I would hope to see this in the codex,
Spoiler:
Likewise, a World Eater in the Black Legion novels is a heavy weapon specialist,
Spoiler:
It would be neat to see this represented, since imo, the look of World Eaters carrying traditional bolt guns rocks.
I remember WE havocs being a fairly regular occurrence across the lore, though there were references to Angron assigning people to carry heavy weapons as punishment to devoid them of the honor of collecting blood and skulls on the front lines.
Well this is the Epic attempt at World Eaters. Most of the ranged firepower comes from armour/demonic armour with khorne worshipping marines (who are not yet berserkers) for some flexibility. World eater destroyers (heavy short ranged weapons) were added with experience of using the list.
The design notes...
Spoiler:
WORLD EATERS
For the World Eaters we wanted to make them a very close combat orientated army. The cult specific Berzerkers were again made the core choice in their sacred number. Chaos Terminators, Chaos Bikesand characters were all tweaked with improved CC and downgraded FF. Daemonic Assault Engines and Lord of Battles were added with a slight boost in initiative for assaulting. The Feral titan was removed in favour of the Lord of Battles.
As in the other lists Chaos Space Marines were added. We found that the standard Chaos cruisers didn't really work with the World Eaters so we replaced them with the Styx Battlecruiser and its increased drop capacity. Other Khornate units were also added in the form of Juggernaughts and Flesh Hounds, in keeping with the CC theme. For AA we decided to stick with just planes as using a Khornate Defiler in a defensive AA role didn't seem appropriate, this also allowed us to keep the defiler assault orientated.
UPDATED WORLD EATERS
Again all relevant changes to list structure and to Daemon summoning from the Black Legion update have been carried over, as well as any relevant unit cost or stats changes.
The core Berzerkers retinue has received a slight points reduction and the option of free transport, this combined with the revised elite and support structure makes the army much more flexible.
Is there any chance that they up the Zerker squad size to 20? That would be hilarious, 20 chain axe wielding psychos running around the board. at 15ppm.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: Is there any chance that they up the Zerker squad size to 20? That would be hilarious, 20 chain axe wielding psychos running around the board. at 15ppm.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: Is there any chance that they up the Zerker squad size to 20? That would be hilarious, 20 chain axe wielding psychos running around the board. at 15ppm.
Wait. When did they shrink it from 20?
They didnt (yet) but its to be expected that all CSM squads will be capped at 10 instead of 20 once they get their second wound (Plague marines got it, Rubrics got it)
I’m hoping for a lot of great background in this codex that establishes the culture of the WE as a warband, or multiple warbands.
It’s not codex khorne, it’s codex WE, and should reflect their own unique way of serving khorne, letting the blood flow and collecting skulls. I don’t think they should be a melee heavy army, they should be a brutal army, lots of attacks and mortal wounds. They are butchers but they are butchers with bolters aswell as axes.
EC make more sense as a melee heavy army as they are all about the thrill and sensation of combat, their nerve endings wired into their armour so they can feel every chip and scratch and go loopy over it.
Togusa wrote: So far between 1K sons and Death Guard, I haven't really been all that impressed with the mono-dex models for Chaos.
In terms of sculpts or rules? They might not have the best rules, and I might wish some kits were closer to a proper multi-pose kit, but the overall sculpts have been of pretty good quality, I thought.
Thousand Sons are okay for kits. Whatever happened to Death Guard is just inexcusable.
Not a fan of the Death Guard sculpts? We did get Sassy Nurgling out of them at a bare minimum, and that's good for everyone
Also the Nurgling wearing a Plague Marine helmet but that's besides the point.
...I had that guy down in my head as Sassy Nurgling, but I may have forgotten a second one who has earned that name.
+ + +
I'm not sure how much I expect to end up in a WE 'dex from the current CSM book. I'd say the following are a given, though possibly gaining the prefix "World Eaters" in some cases...
- Kharn
- Chaos Lord (however many varieties are still kicking around - power armour, terminator armour, possibly bike?)
- World Eater Daemon Prince (possibly with its own model, or just using the Khorne head on the upcoming new kit)
- Berserkers
- Possessed
- Basic Chaos Cultists
- Helbrute
- Chaos Spawn
- Maulerfiend
- Chaos Rhino
- Chaos Land Raider
- Khorne Lord of Skulls
I wouldn't be surprised by, but am less sure of:
- Dark Apostle
- Master of Executions
- Defiler
- Chaos Bikes
I'd then probably expect to see the following as well:
- Special non-CSM mortal unit
- Special Terminator unit
- Slaughterbrute (ported in from AOS)
- Possibly introduce Khorngors (done in a fashion similar to the Tzeentch beastmen, so they could do double-duty in AOS, too)
- A WE-specific take on Havocs, or at least some form of ranged-focused PA infantry
- 3-5 new WE-specific characters
- Maybe a special Chosen unit wearing Collars of Khorne?
I think that's my current baseline expectations for the new book - I'm probably missing at least one new "basic" PA unit from my thoughts, too. I'd like to see something like the Cannon of Khorne daemon engine make an appearance as well, but that might be expecting too much.
New models would obviously include new Berserkers, as well any brand-new units.
Crispy78 wrote: Still worried it's going to be ridiculously flanderised, full of nonsense called Bloodbath Axewankers and so on, with not so much as a bolt pistol to them.
Sooo, like these dudes?
If 30K WE have zero ranged weapons on all signature units, it's kind of hard to expect 40K ones to suddenly gain some common sense...
Well to be fair, weren't World Eaters one of the beneficiaries of HH's recent output of "Hey let's give each Legion a super special Destroyer unit". That counts as a ranged unit I'd argue
EviscerationPlague wrote: Well to be fair, weren't World Eaters one of the beneficiaries of HH's recent output of "Hey let's give each Legion a super special Destroyer unit". That counts as a ranged unit I'd argue
Technically yes, but these WE Destroyers couldn't take bolters and while they can take pistols, rules encourage you to swap them and charge.
They also have one of the most comical loadouts in WH possible, two machetes and two pistols, making you question how the hell they manage to use all of their weapons at once
Crispy78 wrote: Still worried it's going to be ridiculously flanderised, full of nonsense called Bloodbath Axewankers and so on, with not so much as a bolt pistol to them.
Sooo, like these dudes?
If 30K WE have zero ranged weapons on all signature units, it's kind of hard to expect 40K ones to suddenly gain some common sense...
both of these units have ranged options, the Red butchers have combi bolters... for some reason and the rampagers have bolt pistols.
As for what I would like to see, 40k rampagers would be cool but most of all I want Bezerkers on Juggernoughts, a Jugger lord and maybe some sort of larger demon engine based on the jugger, I want my Murder Cows!!!!11!
EviscerationPlague wrote: Well to be fair, weren't World Eaters one of the beneficiaries of HH's recent output of "Hey let's give each Legion a super special Destroyer unit". That counts as a ranged unit I'd argue
They also have one of the most comical loadouts in WH possible, two machetes and two pistols, making you question how the hell they manage to use all of their weapons at once
The kit is actually pretty decent.. It's just the alt build with the daft weapons that they insisted on including (why exactly? As these came out circa late 8th ed WHFB the same time as the Blightkings, who only have one build and are better for it) that makes them silly.
The kit is actually pretty decent.. It's just the alt build with the daft weapons that they insisted on including (why exactly? As these came out circa late 8th ed WHFB the same time as the Blightkings, who only have one build and are better for it) that makes them silly.
yeah, but you can't dual wield those, plus there is a huge difference between the momentum of an ax and practially every weapons that isn't a heavy mace or a two handed weapon.
Also chain weapons with blunt weapons like that have a nasty tendency to bounce back and hit the user at the same angle, if they hit something like a helmet or a pouldron. Practialy the only way to stay safe with them, is if the weapon gets imbeded in the enemy or the chain those a whirl on the weapon or shield and hits something like your back or back of your head. there is a reason why they were banned from battle of nations.
Karol wrote: yeah, but you can't dual wield those, plus there is a huge difference between the momentum of an ax and practially every weapons that isn't a heavy mace or a two handed weapon.
Also chain weapons with blunt weapons like that have a nasty tendency to bounce back and hit the user at the same angle, if they hit something like a helmet or a pouldron. Practialy the only way to stay safe with them, is if the weapon gets imbeded in the enemy or the chain those a whirl on the weapon or shield and hits something like your back or back of your head. there is a reason why they were banned from battle of nations.
Honestly, even without the chain, you realistically wouldnt be able to one hand (and probably even two hand) these axes.
Don't bring real world logic to 40k weapons
Depends if their fickness on the model is made for in setting realism or exist that way because of how plastic models get molded and thin ax blades just wouldn't work in mass production.
Two handed it wouldn't be a problem, minus the chain of course. Ain't much bigger then a standard hungarian infantry bardish from the end XVth century. If I can swing those at my age and size, an adult soldiers should be able to do it easily.
Jidmah wrote: I feel like 40k is lacking a tank that launches oversized sawblades at the enemy, and WE should totally be the army to get such a tank.
Shuriken weaponry is pretty close though.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
kurhanik wrote: I just want to see ranged capabilities. Too often Khorne followers are just guys with swords and axes yeeting themselves at foes. Khorne is a god of war, and should involve all sorts of weaponry - maybe a focus on ones that spill blood like solid projectile guns, frag shells, bolters, autocannons and the like, but las weaponry should still exist as well. Melee specialists (Beserkers, etc) should definitely exist in the army, and everything should be roughly "above average" in terms of melee (so that even the most range centric unit in the army can be a bully unit in melee), but shooting should exist.
Give them artillery units that lob fragmentation ordnance at their foes, let them take targetters on their own units to allow them to rain death into melees destroying both friend (likely the Khorne themed cultist unit but let marines and the like take them too) and foe. Lets get some Marines toting heavy bolters with big ass chain-bayonets on them, or a tank with a giant plasma cannon on it used to melt down walls, with cultists and the rare prisoner chained to the plasma coills so that Khorne gets his tithe even when it misfires.
Basically instead of S tier in melee, and then nothing in everything else, I hope they go for A+ or S- tier in melee, but B tier in mid range and maybe like C+ in long range.
I know people want brutal artillery, but how cool would it be to have Khornate cult snipers (not World Eaters, but traitor guard or something)? "Taking skulls" is more about putting bullets through them.
Karol wrote: Depends if their fickness on the model is made for in setting realism or exist that way because of how plastic models get molded and thin ax blades just wouldn't work in mass production.
Two handed it wouldn't be a problem, minus the chain of course. Ain't much bigger then a standard hungarian infantry bardish from the end XVth century. If I can swing those at my age and size, an adult soldiers should be able to do it easily.
Skarr's axe would be 1-2 inches thick in real life, much much MUCH thicker than a bardiche. Youre not swinging that IRL
Karol wrote: Depends if their fickness on the model is made for in setting realism or exist that way because of how plastic models get molded and thin ax blades just wouldn't work in mass production.
Two handed it wouldn't be a problem, minus the chain of course. Ain't much bigger then a standard hungarian infantry bardish from the end XVth century. If I can swing those at my age and size, an adult soldiers should be able to do it easily.
Skarr's axe would be 1-2 inches thick in real life, much much MUCH thicker than a bardiche. Youre not swinging that IRL
I would it just would be very slow, its is the size of a bone cleaver we use durning cow/pig butchering. Again all depends on what ever the size and thickness of the weapon is based on in world realities of weapons, or on limitation in plastic injection technology. A bit like in w40k right now we get SoB taller then marines. I think we can agree that human females in w40k didn't suddenly grow to be 6 feet tall.
If they recruit extra tall girls, who are taller then 6+feet tall marines, then those aren't just tall women. Those are gene breed people who probably under go surgery as children, teens and adults to lenghten the legs. And there would have to be gigantic facilities for those women, because convents are much larger then marine chapters and have convents all around the galaxy. And then they would have adjust the muscle mass to the new hight and check with the longer extremities don't cause problems with blood circulation, like some people in sports gets if they grow too tall or large.
I suspect, given they're a heavily focussed melee army, that GW will miss the mark balance wise with WE and they'll be a bit soft initially. That said, it'll take a LOT of will power not to get a world eaters army. They've always spoken to me but been a bit runty in terms of the chaos marine forces.
Karol wrote: If they recruit extra tall girls, who are taller then 6+feet tall marines, then those aren't just tall women. Those are gene breed people who probably under go surgery as children, teens and adults to lenghten the legs. And there would have to be gigantic facilities for those women, because convents are much larger then marine chapters and have convents all around the galaxy. And then they would have adjust the muscle mass to the new hight and check with the longer extremities don't cause problems with blood circulation, like some people in sports gets if they grow too tall or large.
Fortunately none of that's an issue since reality isn't a concern in the 40k universe....
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah I'd take a 1KSons release over a DG release, but we know that doesn't happen anymore.
The new 'Zerkers will be 8 models per box (for the price of 10!), and have a convaluted list of wargear options all determined by the exact amount of weapons on the sprue.
Don´t forget stupid weapon names. I am already looking forward to the Erythrocytic Flail.
The kit is actually pretty decent.. It's just the alt build with the daft weapons that they insisted on including (why exactly? As these came out circa late 8th ed WHFB the same time as the Blightkings, who only have one build and are better for it) that makes them silly.
I agree with most on the ranged unit. If memory serves, in the Vraks book the WE havoks were called "The Teeth of Khorne" and exclusively wielded hb and ac. We today can add the chaincannon, make the bayonets have an actual melee profile, perhaps like the chainglaive on the Disco lord. My REAL wishlist is berzerkers on scimitar jetbikes, which were possessed by juggernauts to keep them floaty-floaty.
Yeah I'd rather have them riding daemon-infused jetbikes than running around on juggernauts.
Ranged options of Berzerkers would be cool like give them the bolters w chainbayonets and the heavy versions chainglaives on big HIROF guns would also fit the Khornate esthetic.
Fortunately none of that's an issue since reality isn't a concern in the 40k universe....
But it should be an issue, if it was true that model looks and the lore really do impact how the game is played and the game expiriance. If a random repentia is almost as tall as a space marine in termintor armour, then it has to have to be explained somehow. The bigger size of new DG was explained with them swelling and getting bigger from the chaos power corrupting everything from the Scar. Orks get bigger the bigger stuff they fight, so ork that specilises in hunting huge monsters are bigger then the regular orks etc. There has to be a similar explanation for SoB too.
I’m hopeful of Red Butchers. Their background in Heresy is really cool. Basically Marines driven insane by the Butcher’s Nails, and locked away in Terminator Armour which is remotely deactivated after the battle.
The WHFB Hellcannon could fit in as a Cannon of Khorne.
The old Daemon Engines of Khorne from Epic were all close combat focused and all had short to medium range at most weaponry, with a focus on more shots, and were usually of autocannon or so strength, with a few shots of approximately battle cannon in strength. The Cannon of Khorne was the outlier having range and AOE, but randomness and posing a significant risk of blowing itself up.
Khorne is about overcoming the foe through one's own strength and abilities. At its most basic this reduces down to close combat, but the short range weapons also fit that philosophy because it puts the wielder at risk. Khorne dislikes "push button" warfare and precision long range firepower, as the wielder is safe and removed from the visceral nature of combat.
