Are you a new player? There is no need to read the entire thread! Just jump to the last page and ask away!
If you have things you think should be added to this post, PM me.
Ghazgkull Mag Uruk Thrakka wrote:Humies is all weak scum that deserve ta get stomped. 'Cept for One-Eye Yarrick. He knows how ter fight.
I know, us orks don't like rules, but a couple of things should be said before starting:
- Tactics means trying to win the game with kunnin'. I know there are a lot of players who just want to toss some dice, watch their beautiful converted models, re-enact battles from the fluff and don't really care about who wins the game. I'm sure you are having great fun in your games, but your strategies might not work for someone facing optimized armies.
- It's safe to assume that the vast majority of games will be using the newest FAQs, points, matched play and data slates. Please don't base tactics on not using the most recent rule set.
- If you are looking for crusade advice, specifically say so. Unless stated otherwise it is assumed that current matched play mission pack is used to play.
- Keep in mind that not everybody has access to forgeworld models or rules.
- Legend rules aren't allowed everywhere.
- Be clear about whether you are discussing army composition (looking for the best options), or whether you simply want to use a unit in an efficient way, even if it's not the best choice.
- Clarify whether you are discussing regular Matched Play or Tournament rules where it matters.
- There are communities and tournaments that do not allow certain things. The people looking for advice here cannot change that, so accept that they have to work around those limitations.
- Do not discuss GW's business practices in this thread.
- Do not discuss the number of releases other armies get in this thread. Especially not beakies. - This thread is about 10th edition, if you do not like or even play 10th edition, that's a perfectly fine, but do not the topic of this thread.
- It is fine to agree to disagree.
- Back up your arguments.
- Provide links to blogs/videos/podcasts you are referencing
- If you need help with list-building, provide us with a list of models you have available
- Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya
- Lists not in spoilers are to be responded with a krumpin of the poster
- Orks never lose.
- WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!
Eternal Boss Pole: Thanks to the these awesome gits for providing content:
the_scrotsman
PiñaColada
hollow one
Waaaghbert
Emicrania
flandarz
An Actual Englishman
Grotrebel
Complete list of ork rules: (Last update: 2023-08-08)
Warhammer Legends (includes Forgeworld) (optional)
Relevant rules: Da Red Gobbo, Big Mek on Warbike, Painboy on Warbike, Big Guns
Zhadsnark da Ripper, Grot Bomm Launcha, Lifta Wagon, Attack Fighta, Fighta-Bommer, Chinork Warkopta, Deff Rolla Battle Fortress, Kill Krusha
Link: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/ymEVVaoU5ZRJoU8N.pdf
What do you really need out of all those to play orks?
1) Index: Orks, because all the rules are in there. Dat's it.
Odd, difficult and messed up rules, aka the "talk to your opponent first"-list: (Last update: 2023-08-08)
1) It's unclear how many slots Thrakka and Makari take in a battlewagon. The assumption is that both models combined are 18 slots so you can fit a retinue of 2 MANz, but many people (rightfully) disagree.
2) SJD can shoot after using the shokk tunnel, due to models being set up counting as having made a normal move.
3) Mortal wounds from the pain boyz' ability do not have precision
4) You can use 'ere we go on units in reserves, and boyz/kommandoz before they are jumped by a weirdboy/Snikrot
If you disagree with any of these interpretations, please discuss them in the YMDC subforum or shoot me a message to a relevant discussion.
Due to the large amount of work it requires multiple times a year and because I no longer want to support the people running dakkadakka.com with content I create, there will be no more tier lists for orks. If you have questions about this, please contact me via PM.
Afrodactyl wrote: I think I'd prefer Killsaws getting the anti vehicle treatment over devastating wounds. Trading off an attack compared to the PK for the ability to threaten every vehicle would be much more worthwhile IMO.
gungo wrote:While I do think the megaMek is awesome.
I don’t think it’s the only leader you want for meganobs…
He’s only 4+ invul to unit from shooting
And reroll 1 to hit shooting
All of which don’t work inside a trukk….
His coolest benefit is the bring back model but meganobs aren’t designed for shooting… and those buffs conflict with detachment and army rules which mostly benefit melee… exploding 6s, +1 str/atk in melee…
I think a warboss in mega armor benefits the meganob more in the trukk man missile.
He gives meganobs +1 to hit in melee making those dual killsaw a reliable 3+ to hit profile…
I think the MegaManz unit is best suited for dumping them on an objective and just being an obnoxious unit to remove.
6 MANz and a KFF MegaMek is 23 T6 2+ wounds with a 4++ against shooting, and puts out a not insignificant amount of shoota fire with rerolled 1s to clear away chaff infantry with better OC. Anything that tries to fight you for it is getting smacked. You can then start restoring models when you take damage or restore a handful of wounds with the oiler.
That's decently tough to shift regardless of whether you try to shoot them off or fight them.
It's not the killiest unit, but it is pretty hard to shift.
Also, Ghaz is only 235 points including Makari.... He might be usable at that cost.
It looks like you can't take individual models for most units, you buy them in chunks. A fair few units have decimaled points costs when done individually.
Issues with lethal hits, anti x, and devastating wounds clarified to not trigger other abilities..
Ghaz is fairly cheap and will be really strong until they nerf the trukk.. man missle combo..
Boys are cheap as are Gretchin. Goff pressure looks good for now. Not sure about much else
Lots of fast melee threats and a semi fast durable objective grabber? Dunno if it’s to much points in meganobs/squigriders…
yes at first glace i was like: This gak is expensive. But its not really more expensive (not necessarily at least..)
Personally i dont like that its already dictated that you almost SHOULD take all the wargear options, simply to not "waste" your points. Also if im not mistaken, you cant take 7 nobz, you have to take 5 or 10. well you can but you still pay for them (i think).
Like you wanna use a battlewagon to transport infantry, as many as you can, but if you dont take the kill kannon, you are paying 180 points for a wagon and waste points. so its a weird rule.
If you already intend to take all the weapons upgrades, you probably arent paying more than what you have to.
Beardedragon wrote: Really? I think the squighogs look really expensive. Maybe they are worth it but they definitely went up in price.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh wow the trukk is 50 points lol
Unit size of 6 w 1 nob.. and beastboss on squig in range (2 free bomb squigs so lots of mortals)
Each squigrider is 7atks on Waagh w exploding 6s (hitting on 2s w nob)
Squigboss reroll charge range and it cant be modified so extremely reliable
Reliable wounding w lance, anti everything.. (and nob is brutal w Hwkc enhancement)
Thier only issue is t7, 4+ 5+++ 3w isn’t really durable (5++ during Waagh)
Doing 2 squads of this is 98atks not counting beastboss on squig..should be able to clear through most chaff quickly.
yes at first glace i was like: This gak is expensive. But its not really more expensive (not necessarily at least..)
Personally i dont like that its already dictated that you almost SHOULD take all the wargear options, simply to not "waste" your points. Also if im not mistaken, you cant take 7 nobz, you have to take 5 or 10. well you can but you still pay for them (i think).
At least I know what I'll be doing with all the extra tank bustas I have. They'll go back to join the boyz they used to share a sprue with
Free rokkits without heavy restrictions are something I have wished for ever since starting orks.
Like you wanna use a battlewagon to transport infantry, as many as you can, but if you dont take the kill kannon, you are paying 180 points for a wagon and waste points. so its a weird rule.
If you already intend to take all the weapons upgrades, you probably arent paying more than what you have to.
I have played PL crusade for most of 9th, free upgrades really doesn't have any positive or negative effect, you just have less barebone units running around.
5 tankbustas are the same points as 5 devastators... well...
Lootas seem okish at 11 pts per model. I'm very doubtful about most of our small characters; 5 sm scouts are 75 points and will basically kill 1 oddboy per turn while being rather hard to shift since we lack reliable ranged killing power or need it to bring down tanks. Deffdread seems expensive in comparison to naut.
PaddyMick wrote: Supa-Cybork Body enhancement (4+ fnp) looks better value the bigger the model; it's a flat 15pts even if you put it on a stompa.
sry mate:
Only Characters can be given
Enhancements and your army
cannot include more than three
Enhancements in total. No unit can
have more than one Enhancement
and each Enhancement included
in your army must be unique.
Epic Heroes cannot be given any
Enhancements. Your army cannot
include the same Epic Hero more
than once.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I also think unit sizes are locked with point's
You take either 10 or 20 boyz, no more no less, i point at the meganobz example.
Seeing the points today was a pretty big surprise for me, since I guess GW is going the AoS route now for 40k. I suppose some of the writing was on the wall with how they formatted the weapons options being fixed and that's why things looked kinda janky for a lot of units. Mixed feelings on my part because I feel GW doesn't do a great job handling the nuance of pricing built in for units with lots of options but we'll see how things go for now.
Glad to see Ghaz went down in price, I think people also need to remember Makari is part of his unit now as well.
Flash Gitz at 19ppm looks real solid, especially at their current profile. I feel like a brick of ten with Badrukk will be a strong go-to point for dakka lovers everywhere until we get more detachments.
Disappointed the Stompa is 800 points (dammit GW, why you do this), Killa Kanz also feel pricier than they should be, as well as Deff Dreads.
Also, cool beans about SJD being able to do what they're supposed to do, though I guess their role now is character assassin rather than anti-tank.
Will write more thoughts when I have time, but it seems like we got off a lot better compared to some factions like Ad Mech, though we'll have to keep an eye out for rising stars like Tau and Eldar.
JohnU wrote: Somebody over there really doesn't like tankbustas. (and the bossbunka, wtf?)
I assume it's because you could stuff the bunka with shooty units and then use a mek to have a firing base that put down a withering hail of heavy weapons fire and was surprisingly hard to remove?
Ya flash gitz and lootas seem like the clear winners for me which is great since flash gitz are my favorite unit in the army. Gonna have to find some pirate ship stl files that work for battlewagons to print out lol.
On a serious note though having zero customization is a massive turn off imo. Hopefully its just a temporary thing because if this is just the new normal going forward Idk I might have to just move on from 40k.
JohnU wrote: Somebody over there really doesn't like tankbustas. (and the bossbunka, wtf?)
I assume it's because you could stuff the bunka with shooty units and then use a mek to have a firing base that put down a withering hail of heavy weapons fire and was surprisingly hard to remove?
Or am I interpreting that wrong.
And keep the bunka around for longer by constantly healing it. Yeah I think you're right. Issue is most weapons you want in it want to be within 24 inchs ya know?
Bit bummed by the stompa's cost, going to be running numbers, see if it or the nauts have a place in regards to durability and output. Glad the mek is only 45 points though, good and cheap for his potential buffs.
Beardedragon wrote: Are there any rules that prevents me from using the same psychic power twice, on two different units?
Like 2 units of boys with 2 weirdboys, tellyporting both units?
Universal rule, no. It's up to datasheet. Weirdboy one, like blood angel librarian dreadnought, farseer's fate dice counts as 6 spell etc specifically says ONE X from your army.
So in this case yes.
Other spells different. Need to check rule itself.
Hmm.. yea one probably cant tellyport 60 boys. It does say "Once per turn, at the end of your Movement phase, one Weirdboy from your army can use this ability
It doesnt look like the hardest "exclude" others from being able to do so that ive ever seen but i guess thats GWs way of saying: only one weirdboy can
Afrodactyl wrote: Literally no downside to loading up my wagons with all the gubbins more.
I'm going to have to hit up ebay for some more big shootas and kannons
Also, does Hazardous still proc if you reroll the 1? KMKs with a shokk attack Mek might be good if it doesn't proc.
Hazardous is separate from the hit rolls now.
When you fire a Hazardous weapon, you just roll 1d6 after shooting is complete. For each 1, you kill a model (if the models are non-Vehicle, non-Monster, and non-Character, otherwise it's 3 MW).
Just to be sure: You cant come in from reserve, at the end of your movement phase, and then Da jump, which is also used, at the end of movement, can you?
Beardedragon wrote: Just to be sure: You cant come in from reserve, at the end of your movement phase, and then Da jump, which is also used, at the end of movement, can you?
So come in from reserve, then da jump
Don't see why not. Reinforcement is part of movement phase. So happens before end of movement phase.
Afrodactyl wrote: Literally no downside to loading up my wagons with all the gubbins more.
I'm going to have to hit up ebay for some more big shootas and kannons
Also, does Hazardous still proc if you reroll the 1? KMKs with a shokk attack Mek might be good if it doesn't proc.
Hazardous is separate from the hit rolls now.
When you fire a Hazardous weapon, you just roll 1d6 after shooting is complete. For each 1, you kill a model (if the models are non-Vehicle, non-Monster, and non-Character, otherwise it's 3 MW).
That's my bad, I misread the rule. Thanks for the response though
Afrodactyl wrote: Literally no downside to loading up my wagons with all the gubbins more.
I'm going to have to hit up ebay for some more big shootas and kannons
Also, does Hazardous still proc if you reroll the 1? KMKs with a shokk attack Mek might be good if it doesn't proc.
Hazardous is separate from the hit rolls now.
When you fire a Hazardous weapon, you just roll 1d6 after shooting is complete. For each 1, you kill a model (if the models are non-Vehicle, non-Monster, and non-Character, otherwise it's 3 MW).
That's my bad, I misread the rule. Thanks for the response though
New edition, gonna be lots of minor errors creeping through in our brains.
No worries!
Beardedragon wrote: Oh yea they dont have to come in by the end of the movement phase, they just arrive when ever during the movement phase.
Not quite. They comn in reinforcement spteg which is after normal movement. So first you move units, then reinforcememts come, then end of movemnnt phase and da jump.
Not huge difference most of the time. Tournaments if opponent is hyperstrict if you put reinforcements cant move other units again. Rather infamous example few years ago.
Some people have been down on Nobz and pro MANz camp, as MANz+Big Mek in MA appear to be pretty filthy on paper.
I will argue that perhaps it's a matter of choice on these equally costed combos. 300 points each, duel to the death.
MANz are clearly a solid brick of defense, but Nobz with Warboss are killier in combat.
Other points in favor of Nobz:
OC for team nob = 11
OC for team MANz = 7
Movement speed +1" for nobs
Transport capacity for team nob = 11
Transport capacity for team MANz = 14
Points in favor of MANz:
Revive 1 model each turn
Restore D3 wounds
Kustom shootas
If we put them up against each other on a cost basis on close combat battle royale, we find:
Some mathz on nobz vs MANz (I didn't count sustained hits because f that)
Spoiler:
10 Nobz = 30 PK attacks, hitting on 3's.
.66*.66*.5*30 = 6.534 at damage 2, or 13.068 damage
Warboss
.83*.66*.5*4 = 1.09 at damage 2, or 2.19 damage
Team Nob:
Total = 15.26 damage, or 5.08 dead, or, on a points cost = approx 169.5 points
Spoiler:
MANz = 18 PK attacks, hitting on 4's.
.5*.5*.83*18 = 3.735 at damage 2, or 7.47 damage
MA Big Mek = 4 PK attacks, hitting on 3s
.66*.5*.83*4 = 1.09 at damage 2, or 2.19 damage
Team Meganob:
Total = 9.66 damage, or 4.83 dead, or, on a points cost = approx 111.09 points
Assuming one revive at the end of turn for team Meganob, restores approx 33.3 points, leaving a total tally of:
136.2 points in losses for team Meganob vs 111.09 points in losses for team Nob.
During Waaagh, team Nobz still killier despite MANz at S10/T5 breakpoint:
242.05 pts in losses for MANz versus 202.35 pts in losses for Nobz
TedNugent wrote: Some people have been down on Nobz and pro MANz camp,............
What say you, Dakka? I think both are - surprisingly - a valid choice depending on what you want to do.
I think orks struggle with anti-tank options when facing knights or Astra parking lot. Too early to tell how this works out in the game but a lot of weapons only wound on a 5+ against vehicles and that's not enough.
Mek guns could be the best option for this but in close combat you might want to pack twin kill saws. That Strength 12 with reroll wound really makes the different.
Hasn't that always been the case? You get more models PP so more damage with the same equipment. But meganobz get that durability going for them, and a little shooting on the side.
= Trukk parade with some of the Trukks beeing a firing platform and some of them being a CC taxi.
Because fully equiped and self-repairing Trukk for 50p is a bargain!
Maybe some Meks close to firing platform Trukks
Some Mek Guns stuck in the back.
Tons of variations on choose of the mellee units.
Maybe SAG is back again for nice 75p!
Battlewagon for 185p is pretty expensive!
It seems, a lot of work to add all the equippement to our barebone Trucks and Wagons.
And a lot of work to make all the Leaders. However one question is still valid:
Are the Leader necessary? With their price around 80p?
What is better, 2 x 10 boyz without a warboss or 1 x 10 boyz with a warboss? Almost same price…
Had my first match against my buddies necrons. He brought:
3x20 warriors w/ lord in each and the 5+++ buff dude
2 doomsday arks
ghost ark
10 lych guard w/ vargard (4+++ buff dude) and nemesor guy that gives random buffs like dev/sus hits
I brought:
mozrog
20 snaggas w/ painboss (follow me ladz)
20 boys w/ painboy and weirdboy (didn't realize this was illegal at the time heh)
5 manz (dual saws) w/ mega mek (super cybork)
2x10 grots
10 lootas
10 flash gitz w/ badrukk
battlewagon
trukk
mek
2 traktor kannons
2 kmk
My gosh... necrons are insanely durable. I think over the course of 3 turns he res'd about 60 warriors and 15 lychguard and by the end of the game he'd only lost 1 ghost ark, 1 doomsday ark, and 1 warrior blob. Still had about half his lychguard squad that probably would of been close to full strength again had we kept playing. He also rolled very fortunate on another blob and kept 1 warrior alive which went back to like 15 dudes by the end of his next turn lol. That being said I did win by getting to the obj faster and basically making it impossible for him to take it back and necrons kinda struggle with killiness at least with his army build. My unit thoughts thus far from best to worst:
mozrog/beastboss - amazing, he killed both doomsday and ghost ark pretty much by himself. Probably gonna take another squigboss w/ killchoppa from here on because orks really struggle with anti tank.
flash gitz - amazing. I was shooting into lychguard which obviously survived in the end, but they have a 3+/4+++, -1 to wound, and res like 3-4 models every turn AND my friend was rolling insane for his fnp the whole time so nothing was killing that squad. My flash gitz were pumping in about 20 wounds every shooting AND overwatch phase though which on most units is gonna get vaporized. 10/10 will be including them in every list.
lootas - amazing, but it honestly has nothing to due with the lootas themselves and everything to do with the fact that, unlike burna boys, they confer their ability to the spannas so every phase I was getting on average 12 rokkit shots from 2 spannas (+4 since they were shooting warrior blobs) that hit on 5+ re rolling. Of course that's an optimal scenario but they're cheap as chips and can output decent to stupid damage for what they should be able to.
grots - amazing. Have one on each obj and basically get a free cp every turn.
battlewagon + mek - great. Honestly was very skeptical of the bw given it's price but with ard case + -2 ap with cover + d3 wounds from mek the thing just tanked everything. Granted my friend really only had 2 doomsday arks and then a bunch of tesla lethal hits that could do anything to me (which neither did). The mek is just an auto include if your running one honestly. 20 big shoota shots plus lobba at bs4+ is surprising good for whittling stuff down and then ws2+ in cc. This thing hits honestly pretty hard with all it's attacks even outside the waaagh phase.
trukk - great. Cheap as chips. Opponent never even bothered shooting at it. Nothing else really to say.
snaggas - were good. +2 movement from the enhancement really helped them zoom around and with cover plus fnp they have good staying power. After about 4 rounds of combat they did manage to finish off a warrior blob with help from the bw then lost the squad to his lychguard charging. If your bringing ghaz I think these guys are just auto take. Lethal hits with rerolls against monster/vehicles is just bonkers and helps a lot with our weakness.
KMK - good. Same ol same ol. Blast is also very nice to help with the swinginess.
painboy - good. Unlike the painboss he's actually somewhat decent in cc and of course giving a unit that doesn't have a fnp natively.
boys - decent/good. You get 2 "free" rokkit launchas so I guess that's fine. They didn't do much before they died since they failed their charge, that being said I popped ard as nails on them and they tanked 2 whole squads of warriors shooting in double tap range, plus a doomsday ark and still had about 5 dudes left.
painboss - decent. honestly don't know if he's really needed since they already have a 6+++ and doesn't do anything in combat. Probably would rather have a beastboss.
traktor kannon - meh. Good on paper, but I was on the unlikely side that comes with bs4+ one shot. Also didn't help I was shooting them into necron vehicles that just heal those 4-5 mw's back next turn so ymmv.
manz + big mek - in a word...disappointed. Sure they're reasonably tanky, but they just have zero damage output. Didn't matter if I threw them at vehicles or infantry. 2-3 attacks hitting on 4+ with dmg 2 just isn't going to accomplish much (and I wasn't really rolling bad).You need to have a warboss or ghaz in this unit for it to accomplish literally anything and even then the dmg is not good after the waaagh turn. There are better distraction carnifexes for the points so I'd say ditch the big mek.
weirdboy - sucks (at least mine did lol). Never hit once with his snipe and cp is too stringent to use a reroll for a bs4+ shot. losing re roll charges makes his teleport not that great either. I used ere we go and still failed. He's cheap, but I'd rather have min biker or stormboyz for getting late game obj in no mans land so I don't really see what roll he plays.
cody.d. wrote: Hasn't that always been the case? You get more models PP so more damage with the same equipment. But meganobz get that durability going for them, and a little shooting on the side.
Never mind. I don't know why but I was under the impression that kill saws got damage 3. It all sucks against big vehicles...
Now that I've had my chicken little moment, I'm coming back round on Nobs. They're actually pretty decent, I'm mostly just upset I either have to put their sluggas back on or buy more
Tomsug wrote: Every Nob in the unit has a Kombi weapon for free now, that is huge!…. Wait…. It has just 1 attack! Ok. It his not huge…
Well, ladz, this tons of free equippement wil slow down the game significantly. Do you see it?
Like grot blastas on buggies…
Generali - it seems to me that the whole game is significantly less killy. Not only on our side, but the other armies too.
You also have to give up your big choppa to get a kustome shoota. And weirdly I think lethal hits actually makes them worse cause those hits don't get to roll for wound thus can't be considered crits. I think.
But put em in a vehicle, hit them with a mek then rock up into rapid fire range. 10 hits on average then 5 mortal wounds? Could be useful against something with some wacky durability?
Eh, probably better to give them claws and a boss for the 1+ to hit and -1 to wound when targeted.
Lethal hit and devastating wound certainly losing power especially lower bs you have. At bs5 half the hits will be autowound, half will get to fish for devastating wound.
Just a little heads-up. The mortal wounds of the painboy are hitting his target first:
" If an attack with the [PRECISION] ability that can
be allocated to a Character model leading an Attached unit can
inflict mortal wounds on its target, the mortal wounds inflicted by
that attack are also allocated to that Character model first."
I think the bubble chukka looks like fun. The 5+ Profile is better antitank than the kmk, and the middle profile better than a smasha (and against t13 or more about equal to the kmk) and it brings back at least a little bit of orky randomness... The Kmks hazardous rule will kill about one gun in 4 turns per unit of 3, so it's the most expensive option.
Orktai wrote: Just a little heads-up. The mortal wounds of the painboy are hitting his target first:
" If an attack with the [PRECISION] ability that can
be allocated to a Character model leading an Attached unit can
inflict mortal wounds on its target, the mortal wounds inflicted by
that attack are also allocated to that Character model first."
Quite fun to think of him as an assassin now!
The attack does not cause mortal wounds, it's a separate ability. Therefore, no precision on the d6 mortal wounds.
Orktai wrote: Just a little heads-up. The mortal wounds of the painboy are hitting his target first:
" If an attack with the [PRECISION] ability that can
be allocated to a Character model leading an Attached unit can
inflict mortal wounds on its target, the mortal wounds inflicted by
that attack are also allocated to that Character model first."
Quite fun to think of him as an assassin now!
The attack does not cause mortal wounds, it's a separate ability. Therefore, no precision on the d6 mortal wounds.
Beardedragon wrote: If you use the traktor kannon, and you hit, does the devastating wound proc if you hit a fly keyword model with a +2 because of its anti fly+2?
Or do you still have to do a wound roll of 6 to do the mortal wounds?
Anti X means you score a crit on a wound roll of X, so Traktor Kannons proc MWs on flyers on a 2+ wound roll
TedNugent wrote: Some people have been down on Nobz and pro MANz camp,............
What say you, Dakka? I think both are - surprisingly - a valid choice depending on what you want to do.
I think orks struggle with anti-tank options when facing knights or Astra parking lot. Too early to tell how this works out in the game but a lot of weapons only wound on a 5+ against vehicles and that's not enough.
Mek guns could be the best option for this but in close combat you might want to pack twin kill saws. That Strength 12 with reroll wound really makes the different.
The real power unit in this anti tank scenario is squighog riders + nob on smasha squig + headwoppa for 315 points.
Here's the numbers on waaagh turn for 3 similarly costed units on charge against a land raider:
For point of comparison, a unit of Nobz with a warboss:
Spoiler:
Nobz
.66*.33*.5*46.67
5.08 wounds
10.16 damage
Warboss
.83*.33*.5*9.33
1.278 wounds
2.56 damage
12.72 total damage
So anyway, on waaagh turn, you would do very slightly more damage with meganobz with mega big mek with twin saws compared to the nobz + warboss, 13.48 versus 12.72 damage.
Those numbers would probably favor the meganobz and be slightly cheaper with the warboss in the meganobz unit. But my concern is that your damage output would go through the poop chute after waaagh, and against all targets, since you drop down to 2 base attacks.
By comparison, Mozrog would score 6.88 wounds against a Land Raider in a turn he charged, or 8.54 wounds on a waagh turn in which he charged.
Mozrog
Spoiler:
.83*.5*.33*7
.96 wounds
3.83 damage
.66*.33*3.5
.76 wound
3.05 dev wounds
6.88 wounds
waaagh
.83*.5*.33*8.167
1.12 wounds
4.47 damage
.66*.33*4.67
1.016 wounds
4.07 dev wounds
8.54 wounds
6 Squighog riders + nob on smasha squig + headwoppa's killchoppa on waaagh:
14.16 damage against landraider.
No transport cost, faster, can assault out of waaagh without worrying about the no-assault ramp rule. Similar durability to Meganobz with similar wound count. Cheaper than running the Meganobz with a transport. Can't assault in ruins, but you're talking about gearing for anti-tank.
Spoiler:
nob on smasha w/ killchoppa
.83*.66*7*2
7.67 dev wounds
People are losing their minds on Reddit because I referred to the battlewagon upgrades as "free"
Bizarrely, for once Dakka seems to be the only place on the internet looking at the positives of the new book rather than just wailing and gnashing their teeth.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TedNugent wrote: Can't assault in ruins, but you're talking about gearing for anti-tank.
Looking through the core rules, I can't see anything that would prevent charging into ruins. Could you elaborate for my pea-brain please?
:EDIT:
Nevermind, found it. It would have been more helpful if they had a bullet point summary of what each model type keyword did, as searching "mounted" did not get me anywhere while looking for this.
The way the rule is worded suggests to me that everything can go on the ground floor, and only beasts, infantry and flyers can go on the upper floors. Not necessarily that only beasts infantry and flyers can go in the ruin.
All other models can only be set up or end a move on the ground floor of this terrain feature.
You forgot to add the 2 free bomb squigs to the squigriders which makes them even better…
But the no negative charge modifiers and beastboss on squig reroll charge makes thier threat range reliable and good.
Only issue with squig riders is durability.
T7 w3 4+ 5+++
That’s not going to keep ‘em alive first turn as they try to run across the board.. got to try to use that cover.
Something else that's interesting after digging into the Beastboss in a unit of Beastsnaggs.
On the turn you charge, the Beastchoppa is far and away the better anti-tank unit due to devastating wounds.
Best part is he doesn't need the HWKC. This is against any vehicle target, regardless of toughness/armour save.
Assuming Waaagh + charge + beastsnagga reroll:
.96*.5*8.16*2
7.83 devastating wounds
versus Beastklaw:
.96*.5*5.83*2
5.6 devastating wounds
Honestly, I think Beastsnaggas + a beastboss in each unit, for this reason, is probably a better generalist infantry block than boyz. Painbosses are just flat out stupid and a waste of points, and I don't know why they exist. If you want to punch tanks and monsters, a few 11 man blocks with a beastboss in each unit is probably an interesting MSU.
Side note, I don't see anything in the Warboss "Da Biggest and Da Best" rule that says it adds 4 attacks to the exclusion of the extra attack from waaagh itself, meaning he should get 9 PK attacks, + sustained hits, or 10.5 PK attacks on Waaagh turn, which is kind of a lot. Is there any reason we can't just take a Warboss + Boyz, or a Warbozz + Nobz MSU in each transport? Both the Warboss and the Beastboss seem to hit a lot harder on Waaagh turn, than the units they are riding with.
If the only restriction on units is rule of 3, you could conceivably run several beastsnagga 10 man squads with Beastboss and several nob squads with a Warboss, in transports, or not, and try to push them into combat on a synced waaagh. The Beastboss on Squigosaur even gives rerolls on charge within 6".
I think Painboyz are a red herring, at 80 points, if you subtract 23 points for a nob with a Powerklaw statline to be generous, it's basically 57 points, or exactly 1/3 the cost of a 20 man blob of boyz at 170, so what value is this if you get a feel no pain, or exactly 1/3 chance of saving a model? It's almost a wash. Painboss is just useless, since you're only going from the inbuilt 6+ FNP to a 5+ FNP, for 70 points. Even on a 210 man block, you're saving 1/6 a model for 1/3 the cost.
gungo wrote: You forgot to add the 2 free bomb squigs to the squigriders which makes them even better…
But the no negative charge modifiers and beastboss on squig reroll charge makes thier threat range reliable and good.
You're right, I did!
That's a 2+ for D3 mortal wounds, which is .83*2 on average, or 1.66. With two squigs, that's 3.33 mortal wounds on average, per unit of 6, once a game.
Only issue with squig riders is durability.
T7 w3 4+ 5+++
That’s not going to keep ‘em alive first turn as they try to run across the board.. got to try to use that cover.
That's what the 'Ard as Nails strategem is for!
T7 - 1 wound
S4 is wounding on 6's
S5 is wounding on 6's
S6 is wounding on 6's
S7 is wounding on 5's
S8 to S13 is wounding on 4's
Assuming AP2, you still get a 6+/5++, which is a roughly 45% chance to save a wound. 56% chance of a save with AP1. Even if they have +1 AP strat, you still get a 33% chance of a save, which also works against mortal wounds. I feel like that makes their shooting a lot less efficient. I don't know that I believe they're really that squishy if you keep a CP for that strat. This is AFTER they select targets, so you can't possibly waste the strategem. Whatever he wants to kill, you could just say, alright, 'ard as nails then.
Let's just throw a unit of 10 hellblasters into them, assuming they overcharge and remain stationary:
.83*.5*.66*2*10
5.5 wounds
11 damage, or 3 dead squighog riders, or 110 points of losses from a 250 point shooting unit.
That could be kind of rough. Hopefully people aren't paying attention to the fact that Hellblasters hit on 3's with heavy.
i was initially very bumbed by the exclusion of assault ramps on trukks, they even had boarding planks for a possible justification... or heck... do the typical GW thing and punish us by taking mortals on a 1 if we wanna disembark after trukk moved..
but beastsnaggaz + BB, boyz + warboss, nobz + WB or even couple manz + mek or boss in a trukk seems pretty efficient
235 for snaggaz+BB
205 for boyz+WB 235 for 5 nobz+WB 215 for 2 MANz+WBorMek
you could put four or five of em in a 2000pt match and still have enough for rigs, jets, mekguns and the mandatory gretchin unit
115pts for 3 fast, fairly tanky buggers with twinlinked rokkits.
They hit on 5's tho
They could ping maybe 3 wounds off a Rhino a turn on average. Or maybe a dead marine a turn.
I guess they're okay? What would you do with them?
Rokkits arent that amazing against vehicles, wounding on 4s against a rhino is sadface.
But, theyre anti elite. Flank with them and try to bully an objective, since they also have 6 S5 attacks in melee.
For 115pts i dont expect a unit to be bonkers powerful, but they are clearly better than a lot of our options in that range.
115pts for 3 fast, fairly tanky buggers with twinlinked rokkits.
They hit on 5's tho
They could ping maybe 3 wounds off a Rhino a turn on average. Or maybe a dead marine a turn.
I guess they're okay? What would you do with them?
Rokkits arent that amazing against vehicles, wounding on 4s against a rhino is sadface.
But, theyre anti elite. Flank with them and try to bully an objective, since they also have 6 S5 attacks in melee.
For 115pts i dont expect a unit to be bonkers powerful, but they are clearly better than a lot of our options in that range.
Well, here's an alternative if you want to kill elite infantry.
Flash gitz are 95 for a unit of 5.
Naked, and at BS5, not firing at closest unit:
1.63 dead MEQs
Add Badrukk into a 10 man unit and pop the ammo runt for stupid damage. Even Badrukk into a 5 man unit with an ammo runt can shred.
I'm still running the math, but it's stupid.
Basically, with lethal hits and a reroll alone, you're hitting 6's on roughly 25% of all hit rolls. A unit of 5 targeting closest unit gets 25 shots on average if you add the sustained hits from Badrukk rerolls, and roughly 25% of those shots are lethal hits if you pop the runt. Double that for a ten man unit with Badrukk.
115pts for 3 fast, fairly tanky buggers with twinlinked rokkits.
They hit on 5's tho
They could ping maybe 3 wounds off a Rhino a turn on average. Or maybe a dead marine a turn.
I guess they're okay? What would you do with them?
Rokkits arent that amazing against vehicles, wounding on 4s against a rhino is sadface.
But, theyre anti elite. Flank with them and try to bully an objective, since they also have 6 S5 attacks in melee.
For 115pts i dont expect a unit to be bonkers powerful, but they are clearly better than a lot of our options in that range.
Well, here's an alternative if you want to kill elite infantry.
Flash gitz are 95 for a unit of 5.
Naked, and at BS5, not firing at closest unit:
1.63 dead MEQs
Add Badrukk into a 10 man unit and pop the ammo runt for stupid damage. Even Badrukk into a 5 man unit with an ammo runt can shred.
I'm still running the math, but it's stupid.
Basically, with lethal hits and a reroll alone, you're hitting 6's on roughly 25% of all hit rolls. A unit of 5 targeting closest unit gets 25 shots on average if you add the sustained hits from Badrukk rerolls, and roughly 25% of those shots are lethal hits if you pop the runt. Double that for a ten man unit with Badrukk.
Math time! I might not like the look of 10th edition, but I like math.
You're generally better off rerolling only 1-4 and keeping 5s. Each shot does, against MEQ:
1 shot
5/18 hits on a five, 5/18 hits on a six, which is 15/18 or 5/6 wound rolls and 5/18 autowounds
10/18 plus 5/18 wounds, for 15/18 or 5/6
5/12 failed saves, each one killing a MEQ
Or, put another way, one Flashgit kills a MEQ with all that even if they're not the nearest target.
Without Lethal Hits, it drops to 5/18 failed saves, so one Git won't QUITE on average kill a MEQ, unless they're the nearest target.
versus Beastklaw:
.96*.5*5.83*2
5.6 devastating wounds
Honestly, I think Beastsnaggas + a beastboss in each unit, for this reason, is probably a better generalist infantry block than boyz.
agreed, came to the same conclusion last night. 10 snaggas + beastboss + trukk is almost 100 points cheaper than 6 squigboys and is gonna be able to get the job done just as good.
I see your 5/18 hits on 5 and 5/18 hits on 6 when you include the reroll.
That should be 5/18 getting autowound. -1 AP or 50% chance of unsaved wound.
Then 5/18 regular hits, with 66% to wound, then 50% to save, or 9% unsaved wound.
So obviously the key is the lethal hits + the rerolls. Which unfortunately you only get the lethal hits once per game, and you'd have to be outside of a transport to make use of the abilities from Badrukk + ammo runt, as well as sustained hits.
I was thinking you could put them in a transport with a Mek for the +1 to hit from firing deck, then plop them out where you want and let it rip with the runt. You should even be able to hurt a vehicle just from the lethal hits alone, but it's probably not ideal. You could leave the Mek in a kitted battlewagon with a killcannon after departure to keep its value.
A lot of points, but both units are versatile in close combat as well due to the deffrolla/klaw on the BW and the choppas on the gits with 4 attacks each.
versus Beastklaw:
.96*.5*5.83*2
5.6 devastating wounds
Honestly, I think Beastsnaggas + a beastboss in each unit, for this reason, is probably a better generalist infantry block than boyz.
agreed, came to the same conclusion last night. 10 snaggas + beastboss + trukk is almost 100 points cheaper than 6 squigboys and is gonna be able to get the job done just as good.
That's math is only against vehicles/monsters, though. I don't know how I feel about them being mechanized since they can't assault from vehicle, you'd have to stand there for a turn after disembarking. The squighogs can just go in with knives out. They're also 18 wounds behind 4+/5++, compared to 10 wounds behind 5+/6++.
Bomb Squig: Once per battle for each bomb squig this unit
has, after this unit ends a Normal move, you can select one
enemy unit within 12" of it and roll one D6: on a 2+, that
enemy unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
Do i understand this as i can now throw both squig bombs on a 6man squighog units at the same time?
So, what to transport in a wagon? Here are some options:
Ghaz+makari+2 manz = 300 pts
Warboss+painboy+20 boyz = 320 pts
Mega mek+ 5 manz = 265 pts
Warboss+10 nobody = 300 pts
Ghaz option sounds fun and maybe the only way to actually threaten tougher vehicles. Ghaz alone will deal around 12 wounds to a land raider. But the wagon will have to roll around with just t10. And we want that tasty t12. Another issue is that ghaz can't disembark normally as his base is a bit larger than 3". You will have to rotate the wagon so that his base ends up underneath it a bit which is annoying.
Warboss+painboy+20 boyz is a solid brick that will deal good damage to enemy infantry if there is such. The problem is they fall flat vs any tougher vehicles and monsters and 10 is gonna be all about those if I get it right. Another great thing is enormous objective grabbing potential of this boyz brick. The wagon will be able to roll around with t12.
Mega mek + 5 manz. Why 5? Cause that's how many will be able to fit in if a wagon takes the big boom gun for d6+3 s9 ap2 d2 shots. If you take a wagon and get a mini mek nearby to patch it up and get bs4, than all the gunz suddenly start to add up. 4 big shootas, lobba and a big boom gun will probably kill something. It's not a cheap combo but why not use a wagon at it's fullest potential. I have a kitted up wagon with a boom gun, so I'll probably try this at some point. As for the manz + mega mek, they can shoot a bit. Will maybe kill a marine or two. And they can chop a bit. Once again, will likely kill a couple more. I'm not expecting them to be overly killy but with resurrecting they can be an issue to shift off an objective.
Warboss + 10 nobz is all about killing infantry and light/medium vehicles up to t9, maybe 10 on a waaagh.
How would you fit 2 mega nobz in a battlewagon, when ghaz + makari takes up 19 spots? Ghaz alone takes 18 but that doesnt account for makari, as far as im aware.
Also im fairly sure that i saw in the rules, its explained that bases that are too big to be wholly within 3 inches, (which ghaz has) simply have to disembark within 1 inch of the transport. effectively granting him more than a 3 inch disembark free move. You dont have to pull shinanigans to get him out. This was the rule in 9th as well.
TedNugent wrote: I don't know how I feel about them being mechanized since they can't assault from vehicle, you'd have to stand there for a turn after disembarking.
You still act normally if you disembark before the vehicle moves. Turn 1 move 12" + adv. Turn 2 waaagh disembark 3" move 6" + adv gives you 28" on avg which should make it a pretty easy charge.
I really hate this new fething point system. Trying to hit 2000 seems excessively difficult. oh you are 5 points too much? Well lets not take out a bomb squig or what ever, you now have to take out entire units, switch everything around and pray to all your gods that when you put something back together, you are somewhat close to 2000 points.
WHY was customization removed... its way more difficult to put a list together now.
Sigh.. Well. What does your first list look like?
Im not sure im going for something good for my first list, just things i want to try maybe
I was originally planning on using Pk Nobz in a trukk and some Flash Gits, but this newer idea needs less modelling effort on my part to bring my old stuff up to par, and is closer to my grand idea of 'Oops, all squigs'
One thing my friend pointed out from an auspex tactics video is that not only can vehicles shoot at other units while in engagement range, but now units outside the combat can shoot at vehicles in engagement range with -1 bs.
The ADL used to have that problem as well, so it's unlikely to survive the first FAQ.
And even if they don't, it's not that hard to kill.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Either I've reached the point where I got too many orks, or I'm just getting old and my memory gets worse. In any case, I went through my entire collection to check what models I actually have, mostly checking for spannas, meks and runtherds.
My collection has quite a few 'eavy weapon boyz which were drafted to become tank bustaz which are now fresh out of job. At least that's what I thought. With upgrades now being free, I've managed to give all of them new homes in either mobs of boyz, units of kommandoz. For those which did not find a place, I just added boss poles from the lootas of flash gits box which somewhat resemble mek glyphs to have enough spannas for all my lootas and burnas - because rokkits are free on those as well. So despite my unhealthy love for large mobs of tank bustaz, I manage to find a new home for all of them. Maybe this helps someone here with re-arranging their collections as well.
"If an attack with the [PRECISION] ability that can be allocated to a Character model leading an Attached unit can inflict mortal wounds on its target,
the mortal wounds inflicted by that attack are also allocated to that Character model first."
From the Rules Commentary.
Tarp wrote: Painboys might be worth it, not useless atleast.
"If an attack with the [PRECISION] ability that can be allocated to a Character model leading an Attached unit can inflict mortal wounds on its target,
the mortal wounds inflicted by that attack are also allocated to that Character model first."
From the Rules Commentary.
glad that's cleared up cause that's the way I was playing it lol
You should have a glance at the "Dead Choppy" rule for the dreads. As I read it it's an extra attack for every klaw after the first. So 7 attacks, 8 on waagh, with exploding 6s.
The armiger gets a better shooting attack of course, but the dread isn't bad for it's points imo. Kinda wish for ap3 though.
Tarp wrote: Painboys might be worth it, not useless atleast.
"If an attack with the [PRECISION] ability that can be allocated to a Character model leading an Attached unit can inflict mortal wounds on its target, the mortal wounds inflicted by that attack are also allocated to that Character model first." From the Rules Commentary.
As above, the precision attack is not causing any mortal wounds, the ability is.
Otoh attacks have profile and abilities. No profile actually causes mw's. Every mw comes from ability. Devastating wound? Ability. Only difference is usr vs datasheet ability.
If ability caused mw isn't enough then no attack cause mw for precision to allocate.
Beardedragon wrote: How would you fit 2 mega nobz in a battlewagon, when ghaz + makari takes up 19 spots? Ghaz alone takes 18 but that doesnt account for makari, as far as im aware.
Also im fairly sure that i saw in the rules, its explained that bases that are too big to be wholly within 3 inches, (which ghaz has) simply have to disembark within 1 inch of the transport. effectively granting him more than a 3 inch disembark free move. You dont have to pull shinanigans to get him out. This was the rule in 9th as well.
It says that Ghazkul Thrakka takes 18 and Ghaz + makari are a single datasheet - Ghazkul Thrakka. Means that ghaz + makari take 18 slots. So, you can take them and 2 meganobz.
Beardedragon wrote: How would you fit 2 mega nobz in a battlewagon, when ghaz + makari takes up 19 spots? Ghaz alone takes 18 but that doesnt account for makari, as far as im aware.
Also im fairly sure that i saw in the rules, its explained that bases that are too big to be wholly within 3 inches, (which ghaz has) simply have to disembark within 1 inch of the transport. effectively granting him more than a 3 inch disembark free move. You dont have to pull shinanigans to get him out. This was the rule in 9th as well.
It says that Ghazkul Thrakka takes 18 and Ghaz + makari are a single datasheet - Ghazkul Thrakka. Means that ghaz + makari take 18 slots. So, you can take them and 2 meganobz.
but makari is a physical model on the table. why would he not take up any slots? hes not an ammo runt
Burna Boyz and their CC Cutting Flames fun fact = it is a better weapon profile only againts 2+ Sv targets. Any other target it is worse…
CCW 3/3+/4/0/1 = 4 BBoyz do 8 hits
CF 2/4+/4/-2/1 = 4 BBoyz do 4 hits
If all wounds, than the difference is the Svpf the target.
If Sv 2+ => CCW do 1,33 dmg / CF do 2,0 dmg If Sv 3+ => CCW do 2,67 dmg / CF do 2,67 dmg If Sv 4+ or bigger, CCW is simple better weapon.
If Sv 6+ => CCW do 6,67 dmg / CF do 4 dmg
BUT BURNA BOYZ ARE NOT EQUIPPED WITH CLOSE COMBAT WEAPON! JUST THE SPANNER IS!
tneva82 wrote: Otoh attacks have profile and abilities. No profile actually causes mw's.
Wrong.
Every mw comes from ability. Devastating wound? Ability. Only difference is usr vs datasheet ability.
One of the most dumb things you have posted so far in this edition, twice so because the Rules Commentary explicitly states the opposite to be true.
Might as well claim that the powerklaw also has precision, because the only difference is them is that his rules are written on a different line.
The "only difference" is that one deals mortal wounds as part of the attack sequence while the other does not.
If ability caused mw isn't enough then no attack cause mw for precision to allocate.
If you can't be arsed to quote the free online rules, don't bother posting at all.
Rules Commentary wrote:If an attack with the [PRECISION] ability that can
be allocated to a Character model leading an Attached unit can
inflict mortal wounds on its target, the mortal wounds inflicted by
that attack are also allocated to that Character model first.
Precision cares about which weapon profile you use. If a weapon has both precision and devastating wounds, the attack is allocated to a character due to precision and if it is a critical wound that weapon causes mortal wounds and the attack sequence ends.
"Hold Still and Say ‘Aargh!" is just a datasheet ability causing mortal wounds, exactly like bomb squigs, deff from above or nose drill. There is no attack to be allocated, the mortal wounds are not done as part of the 'urty syringe attack sequence and it does not replace the regular damage. And therefore, no precision ability.
In order for this rule to be affected by precision, it would have to be a weapon rule, just like "Snagged" on the rigs or "Bubblechukka" on the mek gunz.
RAW is very clear on this, but the intention might have been another. Or not, because someone was afraid of pain boyz making space marine captains explode.
TL;DR: Both the RAW and the "defensive" interpretation do not support precision mortal wounds from pain boyz.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tomsug wrote: The organization of ork index is a pure nightmare.
Yes... reminds of those times at work when I was explicitly told to reduce the usability of free features that are in competition with premium features.
Within the week we will have someone who recut the PDF and added an index.
Even using the control+F search function to find a datasheet is horrifying because of the sheer number of characters with that unit's exact name listed under the units they can join. It is almost incredible how many times I have to press enter before I find the actual datasheet, possibly skipping over it entirely before going to one of 10 different Lieutenants, captains, librarians, etc.
I guess our index has the advantage of having, what, one to three characters at most that can join a given unit? So at least using control+F to find a datasheet works if you press enter once or twice.
tneva82 wrote: Otoh attacks have profile and abilities. No profile actually causes mw's.
Wrong.
Every mw comes from ability. Devastating wound? Ability. Only difference is usr vs datasheet ability.
One of the most dumb things you have posted so far in this edition, twice so because the Rules Commentary explicitly states the opposite to be true.
Might as well claim that the powerklaw also has precision, because the only difference is them is that his rules are written on a different line.
The "only difference" is that one deals mortal wounds as part of the attack sequence while the other does not.
If ability caused mw isn't enough then no attack cause mw for precision to allocate.
If you can't be arsed to quote the free online rules, don't bother posting at all.
Rules Commentary wrote:If an attack with the [PRECISION] ability that can
be allocated to a Character model leading an Attached unit can
inflict mortal wounds on its target, the mortal wounds inflicted by
that attack are also allocated to that Character model first.
Precision cares about which weapon profile you use. If a weapon has both precision and devastating wounds, the attack is allocated to a character due to precision and if it is a critical wound that weapon causes mortal wounds and the attack sequence ends.
"Hold Still and Say ‘Aargh!" is just a datasheet ability causing mortal wounds, exactly like bomb squigs, deff from above or nose drill. There is no attack to be allocated, the mortal wounds are not done as part of the 'urty syringe attack sequence and it does not replace the regular damage. And therefore, no precision ability.
In order for this rule to be affected by precision, it would have to be a weapon rule, just like "Snagged" on the rigs or "Bubblechukka" on the mek gunz.
RAW is very clear on this, but the intention might have been another. Or not, because someone was afraid of pain boyz making space marine captains explode.
TL;DR: Both the RAW and the "defensive" interpretation do not support precision mortal wounds from pain boyz.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tomsug wrote: The organization of ork index is a pure nightmare.
Yes... reminds of those times at work when I was explicitly told to reduce the usability of free features that are in competition with premium features.
Within the week we will have someone who recut the PDF and added an index.
And what is devastive wounds? ABILITY. So obviously mortals by abilities can be allocated.
Note where devastating wound ones are found in rulebook? ABILITIES..
You need better reasoning than it's ability. So is devastating wounds. So is lethal hits.
Just showed you haven't bothered to read rules.
But yeah. Not surprisead ignorant rude ones like you fail to see.
Anyway, I don't really like this, as I really don't like the beastsnagga range, and I prefer classic orks.
But, being real: Beastsnagga boyz do a LOT more damage against big vehicles. TL;DR, if you have vehicle and monster heavy meta, probably just choose beast snaggas WITH A BEASTBOSS over boyz. Since they do the same thing but also threaten vehicles a lot more.
A unit of 10 does work if they have a beastboss. And you can put one of those in a trukk/rig or two in a wagon.
They get +1 to hit from the beastboss and full rerolls against vehicles and monsters, S6 on the waagh.
Against a knight w/ waaagh+charge against 6+ FNP:
Snaggas
.97*.33*.5*.83*42 or ((4*9)/6)+(4*9))
5.58
.97*.33*.5*.83*5.83*2
1.55
Beastboss
.97*.5*8.17*2*.83
6.58
Not bad damage against a knight for 185 points if you get the waaagh + charge.
Against a rhino on charge w/ no waaagh
Snaggas
.97*.33*.5*31.5 or ((3*9)/6)+(3*9))
5.04
.97*.33*.5*4.67*2
1.49
Beastboss
.97*.5*7*2
6.79
So they can pop a rhino on the charge on average with no waaagh.
Snaggas w/ beastboss simply do a lot more damage than boyz + Warboss against vehicles/monsters, mostly due to the devastating wounds + anti vehicle 4+ on the beastboss (which I kind of expect will change at some point soon). You're getting a lot for 30 points, considering they also get an inbuilt 6+ feel no pain, S6 on waaagh.
Also, on the Kill Rig, this would do some serious work after waaagh:
Spirit of Gork (Psychic): At the start of the Fight phase, you
can select one friendly Orks unit within 12" of this model
and roll one D6: on a 1, this model suffers D3 mortal wounds;
on a 2-5, until the end of the phase, add 1 to the Strength
characteristic of melee weapons equipped by models in that
unit; on a 6, until the end of the phase, add 1 to the Strength
characteristic of melee weapons equipped by models in that
unit and those weapons have the [LETHAL HITS] ability.
Oh, just found this vid with links to a bunch of points efficiency spreadsheets (noice):
Precision is not an ability, precision is a weapon keyword and can interact or NOT with other keywords.
Abilities need to specifically state their interaction, or their not eligible. Check all abilities that add keywords to weapons or waaagh that excludes weapons with extra attacks keyword
In the painboy case, the ability triggers on the weapon critical, the crit can be caused by the keyword or 6 when applicable, not stating otherwise the mw are done to the unit.
Also had m game, so far all i can say is we feel like DG, we lost move and damage. But we gain a really good amount of shrug off damage.
SO far i will reserve judgment, it was a test game, there are a few things i need to think about and re-test. Since it was not optimized too...
I will also advise against quick buys at this stage still too clouded.
I can agree on a few things though, gretching and squig boss in beast + epic are great, 250pts of boyz with doc is a nice tarpit unit with good anti punch and nice target for kill rig buff.
Also for math lover's i would love to know big choppa vs claw numbers and what is more efficient in nobz, i am currently looking for it.
Beardedragon wrote: How would you fit 2 mega nobz in a battlewagon, when ghaz + makari takes up 19 spots? Ghaz alone takes 18 but that doesnt account for makari, as far as im aware.
Also im fairly sure that i saw in the rules, its explained that bases that are too big to be wholly within 3 inches, (which ghaz has) simply have to disembark within 1 inch of the transport. effectively granting him more than a 3 inch disembark free move. You dont have to pull shinanigans to get him out. This was the rule in 9th as well.
It says that Ghazkul Thrakka takes 18 and Ghaz + makari are a single datasheet - Ghazkul Thrakka. Means that ghaz + makari take 18 slots. So, you can take them and 2 meganobz.
but makari is a physical model on the table. why would he not take up any slots? hes not an ammo runt
Cause of the battle wagon rules. As of now ghaz + makari either take 18 slots in a wagon or 2 slots in a trukk.
Beardedragon wrote: How would you fit 2 mega nobz in a battlewagon, when ghaz + makari takes up 19 spots? Ghaz alone takes 18 but that doesnt account for makari, as far as im aware.
Also im fairly sure that i saw in the rules, its explained that bases that are too big to be wholly within 3 inches, (which ghaz has) simply have to disembark within 1 inch of the transport. effectively granting him more than a 3 inch disembark free move. You dont have to pull shinanigans to get him out. This was the rule in 9th as well.
It says that Ghazkul Thrakka takes 18 and Ghaz + makari are a single datasheet - Ghazkul Thrakka. Means that ghaz + makari take 18 slots. So, you can take them and 2 meganobz.
but makari is a physical model on the table. why would he not take up any slots? hes not an ammo runt
Cause of the battle wagon rules. As of now ghaz + makari either take 18 slots in a wagon or 2 slots in a trukk.
A nob in a boy mob also counts for the purpose of the unit but the model still counts, in the sheet it points that the composition is 2 models, i don't think i agree with this unless i see a faq specifying otherwise, there are many character's out there that take bodyguard natively, some are 3 models. There are also implication for Battelshock and unit strength if they no longer count as a model, that why ghaz with 2 bodyguard will never battleshock btw.
Tomsug wrote: The organization of ork index is a pure nightmare.
Within the week we will have someone who recut the PDF and added an index.
I did it right now.
Reorganized Ork Index with one unit = one page system, grouping the units in families, point costs and leader - unit chart is available there:
PDF is rastr image now, so no ctrl+f but much faster scrolling.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I spent the whole day chewing our index and this is what I see:
- skip the planes, terrible effectivity
- skip the fortification, broken and will be faqed
- skip the walkers, pointless
- We are slow. Slower than before. Wagons down to 10”. Warbikers and Koptas down to 12”. No auto advance 6” except Stormboyz and Wartrike. Say goodbye to 20” of Koptas and Warbikers. The best we have are Trukks with 12”
- Our shooting is pretty pathetic. Details and few exceptions later. But it is. We need to focus how to get in CC. But we are slow.
- So need more Trukks. Much more Trukks… and some wagons and rigs.
- Beast Snaggas are the best. Squigriders, Squig Characters and Beastboss+Snagga boyz have the far best damage output points + very solid durability and have a very good ways how to deal a lot of mortal wounds.
- Flashgid Bomb = 10 Flashgitz (+ Kaptin Baldrukk) = one of few good shooting we have. With the Lethal hit Ammo runt do up to 39 hits (incl. 5,5 Lethal Hits) 6/-1/2 per turn.
This is 28 wounds into the Space Marines = with 50% save = 14 SM is dead.
This is 11 wounds in T12 Vehicle = with 50% save = 10-12dmg
To do this we have to stand still and shoot the nearest target.
If you skip the Kaptin, put Flashgitz to the Trukk and have Mek nearby to get max out of firing deck, you are on 20 hits instead without any Lethal hits = 13,3 wound to SM = 6-7 dead SM with 50% save.
Both option cost 285p.
- Lootas are cheaper option with the similar effectivity. Minimum squad for 55p! do max around 6 wounds = 3 dead SM with 50% saves => recounted to 285p (Flashgit Bomb) = 15,5 dead SM.
In Trukk (+ Mek) it is similar. 8 Lootas + 2 Spanners in Trukk average max = 8,8 wounds = 4,4 dead SM with 50% save.
- Mek Gunz gunline for the same price in comparison:
Mekboy Workshop + Super-Cyborg body = 95p to be always in cover and regain lost wounds from Hazardeus.
4 x Mek Gun KMK = 4D6 shots = 14 shots = 7 hits S12 ap-2 D6Dmg
Mek Gun gun line max = Mekboy Workshop + Cyborg body + 3x3 KMK + 3xSAG remain stationary =
Let' s try to kill a Land Rider:
5,9D6 damage from KMK = 20,65
2,8D6 damage from SAG = 9,8
———————————————
TOTAL cca 30,5dmg to Landrider = almost 2 death (32W together) = 275x2=550p damage.
Our price is 725p incl. 95p for Mekboy Workshop and it' s the best we can get from anti tank shooting. And we trolling the game by daysichaining the Workshop in front of our Mek Gunz to protect them againts shooting and charge + repair. But as someone said - not too hard to kill the Workshop.
Automatically Appended Next Post: - SAG dealing a battleshock = OC of targeted unit goes to 0 = targeted unit lost the objective!
- Buggies are not completely dead. But we cannot build an army around them.
— Squigbuggy is a good backfield objective holder with strong indirect fire.
— Riveting ability of KBB could be interesting?
— Sniping SJD also interesting?
Automatically Appended Next Post: - MANz, Nobz and Ghazzy was already discussed.
- we are little bit a Grey Knights now. We can have 4 units teleporting himself around the table - one Kommandos with Snikrot and 3 x Boyz with 3 Weirdboyz. Good for charging? No. We have just 1 strategem to ad 2” to charge and no free reroll. But maybe good for scoring.
Automatically Appended Next Post: - 20 boyz squads seems to be a trap. We have no chance to get such amount of bodies into CC
Beardedragon wrote: How would you fit 2 mega nobz in a battlewagon, when ghaz + makari takes up 19 spots? Ghaz alone takes 18 but that doesnt account for makari, as far as im aware.
Also im fairly sure that i saw in the rules, its explained that bases that are too big to be wholly within 3 inches, (which ghaz has) simply have to disembark within 1 inch of the transport. effectively granting him more than a 3 inch disembark free move. You dont have to pull shinanigans to get him out. This was the rule in 9th as well.
It says that Ghazkul Thrakka takes 18 and Ghaz + makari are a single datasheet - Ghazkul Thrakka. Means that ghaz + makari take 18 slots. So, you can take them and 2 meganobz.
but makari is a physical model on the table. why would he not take up any slots? hes not an ammo runt
Cause of the battle wagon rules. As of now ghaz + makari either take 18 slots in a wagon or 2 slots in a trukk.
A nob in a boy mob also counts for the purpose of the unit but the model still counts, in the sheet it points that the composition is 2 models, i don't think i agree with this unless i see a faq specifying otherwise, there are many character's out there that take bodyguard natively, some are 3 models. There are also implication for Battelshock and unit strength if they no longer count as a model, that why ghaz with 2 bodyguard will never battleshock btw.
It's more a problem of what's written in the battle wagon rules. It just says Ghazghkull Thrakka. And it can mean both a model and a unit as they're called the same. A unit also includes Makari. As I think that ghaz + 2 manz is intentional, I'll play it this way.
Also, they forgot one bigshoota on the skrapjet as it has one extra in the rear.
Also, ghaz can ride a trukk but it will surely get faqed like the rest of the bugs.
Tomsug wrote: - skip the fortification, broken and will be faqed
No way. I'm planning to deploy it dead center (as intended) as part of my vehicle list and plan on having the morkanaut double-dip on repairs in turn 2.
Beardedragon wrote: How would you fit 2 mega nobz in a battlewagon, when ghaz + makari takes up 19 spots? Ghaz alone takes 18 but that doesnt account for makari, as far as im aware.
Also im fairly sure that i saw in the rules, its explained that bases that are too big to be wholly within 3 inches, (which ghaz has) simply have to disembark within 1 inch of the transport. effectively granting him more than a 3 inch disembark free move. You dont have to pull shinanigans to get him out. This was the rule in 9th as well.
It says that Ghazkul Thrakka takes 18 and Ghaz + makari are a single datasheet - Ghazkul Thrakka. Means that ghaz + makari take 18 slots. So, you can take them and 2 meganobz.
but makari is a physical model on the table. why would he not take up any slots? hes not an ammo runt
Cause of the battle wagon rules. As of now ghaz + makari either take 18 slots in a wagon or 2 slots in a trukk.
I whole heartedly agree that this is how its SUPPOSED to work with ghaz + makari taking 18 slots. But given that makari is a model on his own im fairly confident he takes up a spot. That would make them take up 19 spots total. Anything that takes up a physical model space, takes up one slot in a transport as it is. This is why ammo runts dont take up spots, because they are not physical models on the table.
I would probably play ghaz + makari as 18 spots though, because yes, its probably intended to be both of them for 18 slots. Otherwise it doesnt make any sense at all.
Considering there isnt any force slots anymore and the only thing to pay attention to in list building is minimum 1 character and rule of 3 (6 battleline) the organization of the ork index isnt bad, its just alphabetical. The problem is a handful of units usually are referred to in a way that doesnt lean to alphabetical listing....the BOOMdakka Snazzwagon comes to mind. I couldnt find the bloody thing for quite awhile because i completely forgot it has Boomdakka in its name first, not Snazzwagon lol.
Regardless of how its organized searching the index cards is a pain in the butt since most keywords to find a unit are in multiple places thanks to the character attach list and the flavor text on each card. Im very tempted to print these off, but since i know the ork codex was supposedly one of the first 4 to release im hesitant to waste the ink lol
As for the Ghaz in transport thing....yes its probably intended to run Ghaz+Makari as 18 slots and its just really crappy wording on GW's side, i doubt anybody would give you crap for playing it that way. Why wouldnt anyone give you crap you might ask? Because rules as written Meganobz dont take 2 slots, nothing has the Mega Armor keyword whcih is what transports are calling out. Obviously oversighted, as is the makari one.
What about deep striking Zag with a squad of stormboyz?
He gets reroll charge, 6 PK attacks (essentially 7 with sustained hits) and +1 to hit, and fly. You could add the 2 to charge to that unit for a pretty reliable chance of that unit getting into combat on arrival.
I don't like the stormboyz themselves, but it's there, and people are talking about Kommandos when they're equally expensive with an equally crummy statline, except they can actually pop into combat pretty much when they arrive with the strat.
TedNugent wrote: What about deep striking Zag with a squad of stormboyz?
He gets reroll charge, 6 PK attacks (essentially 7 with sustained hits) and +1 to hit, and fly. You could add the 2 to charge to that unit for a pretty reliable chance of that unit getting into combat on arrival.
I don't like the stormboyz themselves, but it's there, and people are talking about Kommandos when they're equally expensive with an equally crummy statline, except they can actually pop into combat pretty much when they arrive with the strat.
Thinking about the same. This dude can have Headwoppa Killchoppa and is one of the best ones, who can use it.
Tomsug wrote: - skip the fortification, broken and will be faqed
No way. I'm planning to deploy it dead center (as intended) as part of my vehicle list and plan on having the morkanaut double-dip on repairs in turn 2.
You nasty warboss! : Are you gonna build a fence from the workshop around your Nauts? Give it a Super Cyborg body to have a fortification with 4+++!
Thinking about the same. This dude can have Headwoppa Killchoppa and is one of the best ones, who can use it.
who can have the killchoppa? not zag, he is epic
Damn, you are right! Sorry.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Mozrog cost almost the same as Ghazzy now. 195 vs 235p.
Beastsnagga Lone operatives are pretty damn expensive…
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jidmah wrote: I just now noticed warbikers went down to max 6 per units. Holy crap!
My condolences to the speed freeks among you who had multiple full mobs of them before, GW did you dirty.
That is the smallest issue. Warbikers were masacred to the dust. Their shooting is down to half, their move down from 20” to 15,5”, no -1 to hit. Same price. What have they done to my boyz?
@tednugent
hognob doesnt have dev wounds though?
he just gives out +1 to hit
i still think moz is the better option than generic beastboss on squig.
4++ instead of 5++
+1 damage in general (+2 vs mon/vehicle and +3 vs titanic)
chompaz devastating wounds proc on 5+ vs 6+
on the other hand there is reroll charges and the HWKC (4+ devastating wounds) for generic Beastboss...
pointswise thei're both pretty close... 195 vs 185 (with HWKC)
RedNoak wrote: @tednugent
hognob doesnt have dev wounds though?
he just gives out +1 to hit
i still think moz is the better option than generic beastboss on squig.
4++ instead of 5++
+1 damage in general (+2 vs mon/vehicle and +3 vs titanic)
chompaz devastating wounds proc on 5+ vs 6+
on the other hand there is reroll charges and the HWKC (4+ devastating wounds) for generic Beastboss...
pointswise thei're both pretty close... 195 vs 185 (with HWKC)
Can't you just give the HWKC to the nob on smasha? It only says ork model, and he's a character.
With 5 base attacks and 3+ anti vehicle/monster on waagh, and he can join a unit, why not give it to him?
Tomsug wrote: That is the smallest issue. Warbikers were masacred to the dust. Their shooting is down to half, their move down from 20” to 15,5”, no -1 to hit. Same price. What have they done to my boyz?
Sorry, but that is not true. Dakka guns used to be just 2x dakka 5/3 which meant that you could never shoot them when advancing.
Now dakka guns are 3 shots rapidfire 2 (so same as in 9th), but gained assault and twin-linked and 1 point of AP if you are within rapid fire range which you want to be anyways. So, in fact, they moved up from 14" movement to 15.5" and are at least somewhat equivalent in shooting - in a context where all comparable units have lost power.
As for exhaust cloud - they got +1 to toughness and a 6++ instead, which is a perfectly fine replacement.
I have no issues with complaints, but do your homework first by at least checking the datasheets of 9th and 10th against each other.
Jidmah wrote: I just now noticed warbikers went down to max 6 per units. Holy crap!
My condolences to the speed freeks among you who had multiple full mobs of them before, GW did you dirty.
Yuuup, it hurts. I used to have enough to field 3 full squads of 12 back in the day. They became crap for a long time, got dropped to 9 models per unit then down further to 6. At least now they seem to be okay, you can cover a lot of ground with a wartrike, waagh and the 2" move trait.
Shame there's no big mek on bike..... GW!
Don't forget the buffs/debuffs we have gotten to go along side them. Something threatening the bikes in shooting? Fire a Kustom boosta blasta for suppressed. If you don't go full speed you could also have a Snazz wagon snug up next to the enemy units to pass out a -1 to hit in combat and ranged.
Tomsug wrote: That is the smallest issue. Warbikers were masacred to the dust. Their shooting is down to half, their move down from 20” to 15,5”, no -1 to hit. Same price. What have they done to my boyz?
Sorry, but that is not true. Dakka guns used to be just 2x dakka 5/3 which meant that you could never shoot them when advancing.
Now dakka guns are 3 shots rapidfire 2 (so same as in 9th), but gained assault and twin-linked and 1 point of AP if you are within rapid fire range which you want to be anyways.
So, in fact, they moved up from 14" movement to 15.5" and are at least somewhat equivalent in shooting - in a context where all comparable units have lost power.
As for exhaust cloud - they got +1 to toughness and a 6++ instead, which is a perfectly fine replacement.
I have no issues with complaints, but do your homework first by at least checking the datasheets of 9th and 10th against each other.
agree. warbike shooting is almost the exat same output (within 9") as non-speedwaaagh 9th.
now if they are worth it in 10th is another matter. I think they can have a role to play, killing backfield light inf. score points and screen out deepstrikes ect. They are dirt cheap compared to alot of units we have now
i agree the lost of smoke cloud is fine due to the toughness and fnp, also theyre...shockingly cheap...
But i do think their shooting is not equiv to before. They have half the number of shots as before but have reroll to wound now. Twinlinked being reroll wound instead of hit annoys me to no end, both because i'd rather reroll to hit anyway and also memory is going to screw with me. Also...30k still has twinlinked as reroll hits too. And i play both. Im totally not going to get that confused.
Ard as nails is also a fun thing to stack on. Such a shame it's not on vehicles though.
But a lot of our infantry can really stack durability, pretty much forcing the enemy to wound on 6s due to the common T5. Only really Lethal hits allows the enemy to get around it easily.
Theres also anti-infantry, which the designer commentary mentions wins vs minus to wound mechanics.
But off hand im not aware of any bulk anti-infantry right now.
Tomsug wrote: That is the smallest issue. Warbikers were masacred to the dust. Their shooting is down to half, their move down from 20” to 15,5”, no -1 to hit. Same price. What have they done to my boyz?
Sorry, but that is not true. Dakka guns used to be just 2x dakka 5/3 which meant that you could never shoot them when advancing.
Now dakka guns are 3 shots rapidfire 2 (so same as in 9th), but gained assault and twin-linked and 1 point of AP if you are within rapid fire range which you want to be anyways.
So, in fact, they moved up from 14" movement to 15.5" and are at least somewhat equivalent in shooting - in a context where all comparable units have lost power.
As for exhaust cloud - they got +1 to toughness and a 6++ instead, which is a perfectly fine replacement.
I have no issues with complaints, but do your homework first by at least checking the datasheets of 9th and 10th against each other.
9th - Squad of 3 drive 14” to dakka range, shots 30 on 5+ = 10 hits - into GEQ/MEQ wounds on 3+ = 6,66 wounds with ap-1 because of Speedwaagh (after 2 turns dead anyway).
10th - Squad of 3 drive 15,5” to assault rapid range, shot 15 on 5+ = 5 hits - into GEQ/MEQ wounds on 3 with full reroll = 3,33+2,22 = 5,55 wounds with the same Ap.
Reagrding the Exhausts cloud - there was more invu because of Speedwaagh, but it' s one turn of 6++ difference.
In another words - you are right, sorry. My fault.
Only significant issue is the speed. 3 warbikers - standard 9th unit size - was great roadblocks / objective grabers for few points with 20”. Now they are down to 15,5”, which is a big different. But no as bad as I said.
What is super hard for me to judge now is the meaning of T and the killines of shooting in comparison to another armies. Maybe, this is a great shooting now. I don' t know. Everybody around screams about about how bad their armies are now but the general judgement is propably as good as my previous about warbikers I guess…
Automatically Appended Next Post:
cody.d. wrote: Ard as nails is also a fun thing to stack on. Such a shame it's not on vehicles though.
But a lot of our infantry can really stack durability, pretty much forcing the enemy to wound on 6s due to the common T5. Only really Lethal hits allows the enemy to get around it easily.
Ard as Nails = -1 to wound
Smokescreen = -1 to hit (+ cover)
Go to ground = 6++ (+cover)
—————————————
For 3 CP however…
Tomsug wrote: That is the smallest issue. Warbikers were masacred to the dust. Their shooting is down to half, their move down from 20” to 15,5”, no -1 to hit. Same price. What have they done to my boyz?
Sorry, but that is not true. Dakka guns used to be just 2x dakka 5/3 which meant that you could never shoot them when advancing.
Now dakka guns are 3 shots rapidfire 2 (so same as in 9th), but gained assault and twin-linked and 1 point of AP if you are within rapid fire range which you want to be anyways.
So, in fact, they moved up from 14" movement to 15.5" and are at least somewhat equivalent in shooting - in a context where all comparable units have lost power.
As for exhaust cloud - they got +1 to toughness and a 6++ instead, which is a perfectly fine replacement.
I have no issues with complaints, but do your homework first by at least checking the datasheets of 9th and 10th against each other.
9th - Squad of 3 drive 14” to dakka range, shots 30 on 5+ = 10 hits - into GEQ/MEQ wounds on 3+ = 6,66 wounds with ap-1 because of Speedwaagh (after 2 turns dead anyway).
10th - Squad of 3 drive 15,5” to assault rapid range, shot 15 on 5+ = 5 hits - into GEQ/MEQ wounds on 3 with full reroll = 3,33+2,22 = 5,55 wounds with the same Ap.
Reagrding the Exhausts cloud - there was more invu because of Speedwaagh, but it' s one turn of 6++ difference.
In another words - you are right, sorry. My fault.
Only significant issue is the speed. 3 warbikers - standard 9th unit size - was great roadblocks / objective grabers for few points with 20”. Now they are down to 15,5”, which is a big different. But no as bad as I said.
What is super hard for me to judge now is the meaning of T and the killines of shooting in comparison to another armies. Maybe, this is a great shooting now. I don' t know. Everybody around screams about about how bad their armies are now but the general judgement is propably as good as my previous about warbikers I guess…
Automatically Appended Next Post:
cody.d. wrote: Ard as nails is also a fun thing to stack on. Such a shame it's not on vehicles though.
But a lot of our infantry can really stack durability, pretty much forcing the enemy to wound on 6s due to the common T5. Only really Lethal hits allows the enemy to get around it easily.
Ard as Nails = -1 to wound
Smokescreen = -1 to hit (+ cover)
Go to ground = 6++ (+cover)
—————————————
For 3 CP however…
They already have an invul though. And it gets better on waaagh. Honestly I'd prefer to use some of the vehicle's accuracy buffs, more versatile until they get blown up of course. Keep those CP for other stuff.
But 85pts for a KBB and -1 to hit on a unit feels like good value, especially cause it works on anything, up to and including superheavies by the looks of things. For when you want your stompa to win a shootout with a Casttalen. Apply KBB and a mek. NOW WE ALL HIT ON 4s!
Every time i try to put a list together, i find myself thinking: Where the hell are all my models?
I havent played a single game of 10th yet so maybe everyone is thinking that themselves. And maybe everyone just have fewer models on the board. I dont know.
Beardedragon wrote: Every time i try to put a list together, i find myself thinking: Where the hell are all my models?
I havent played a single game of 10th yet so maybe everyone is thinking that themselves. And maybe everyone just have fewer models on the board. I dont know.
Or maybe i have too many leaders. Im not sure
At least you can build a whole list.
Apparently I need to wait until sometime after the 24th for the FW index as the core of my force is Grot Tanks & Mega-Tanks.
Tittliewinks22 wrote: I've read the mek gun reroll mechanic a few times and still see people online saying it means reroll 1s.
I read it as a single die of 1 can be rerolled. If this is the case, it could be read as 1 die per unit or 1 per model.
Anyone have an alternative interpretation?
It comes clear when you remember attacks are individual. d6 attacks resuls in 3, that's do attack, do attack, do attack. Now that's 3 times you are doing attack and as rule says each time you do attack...
We roll all together for sake of speed but the core is individual attacks rollgng to hit, wound, save, damage, proceed to next attack.
Tittliewinks22 wrote: I've read the mek gun reroll mechanic a few times and still see people online saying it means reroll 1s.
I read it as a single die of 1 can be rerolled. If this is the case, it could be read as 1 die per unit or 1 per model.
Anyone have an alternative interpretation?
It comes clear when you remember attacks are individual. d6 attacks resuls in 3, that's do attack, do attack, do attack. Now that's 3 times you are doing attack and as rule says each time you do attack...
We roll all together for sake of speed but the core is individual attacks rollgng to hit, wound, save, damage, proceed to next attack.
So what is your interpretation? All 1s? one 1 for the unit? One 1 per model?
EDIT:
Looking ad Baddruks reroll it says "reroll the hit roll" which implies all.
But mek rerolls are "reroll a hitroll of 1" which is more open to interpretation imo, just looking for clarity
More Dakka: While this model is leading a unit, each time a
model in that unit makes a ranged attack, re-roll a Hit roll of 1.
Yeah, it's reroll 1's to hit, just GW amazing writing skills. If it were only one it would specify, there are some that do " reroll 1 hit roll, 1 wound roll etc..."
I have to say, while i can see some use to the bikes as point stealers, unless we get a detachment for shooting, i rather use a shockattack dragsta for point stealing, since it can be anywhere in the map and pretty much same cost
Tittliewinks22 wrote: I've read the mek gun reroll mechanic a few times and still see people online saying it means reroll 1s.
I read it as a single die of 1 can be rerolled. If this is the case, it could be read as 1 die per unit or 1 per model.
Anyone have an alternative interpretation?
It comes clear when you remember attacks are individual. d6 attacks resuls in 3, that's do attack, do attack, do attack. Now that's 3 times you are doing attack and as rule says each time you do attack...
We roll all together for sake of speed but the core is individual attacks rollgng to hit, wound, save, damage, proceed to next attack.
So what is your interpretation? All 1s? one 1 for the unit? One 1 per model?
EDIT:
Looking ad Baddruks reroll it says "reroll the hit roll" which implies all.
But mek rerolls are "reroll a hitroll of 1" which is more open to interpretation imo, just looking for clarity
Since you do more than 1 attack and reroll 1's on every attack it means multiple rerolls. Every attack means every attack
You do 6 attacks, roll 6 1's.bad luck but as each of 6 attacks can reroll 1's you get to reroll all 6 dice.
Good or bad it's been consistent for 2 editions now how this rule works.
Boosykes wrote: What are your thoughts on the deffkilla wartrike with the bikes? I love the model.
Looks like a trap IMO. The +1 to hit really doesn't anything for the unit, and getting 3 more bikers or any of the other buggies seems like a better investment in most cases.
Neither the PK nor the melta or the flamer look particularly worthwhile.
I have no idea if this is against the thread rules, but where the hell do you guys get the secondaries and missions from? Is there a PDF file somewhere i can get?
Because currently im completely unable to play because of lacking that
Beardedragon wrote: I have no idea if this is against the thread rules, but where the hell do you guys get the secondaries and missions from? Is there a PDF file somewhere i can get?
Because currently im completely unable to play because of lacking that
Beardedragon wrote: I have no idea if this is against the thread rules, but where the hell do you guys get the secondaries and missions from? Is there a PDF file somewhere i can get?
Because currently im completely unable to play because of lacking that
Beardedragon wrote: I have no idea if this is against the thread rules, but where the hell do you guys get the secondaries and missions from? Is there a PDF file somewhere i can get?
Because currently im completely unable to play because of lacking that
I will still tell you guy's to play a game, you will be surprised how much T and cover slows down that game, also our FNP's.
Hopefully you can share thought's in models. Currently looking at nobs, squighogs, deftkoptas boyz, kill rigs and deth dreads. Also Wazboom i am still not sold on it oh and mek guns.
tneva82 wrote: Preorder next saturday, on store week later. About 12 pound per pack. Marines, imperium, chaos, xenos.
Plus mission pack if you don"t get leviathan(which includes mission pack)
oh yea i meant the mission packs not the actual Xenos decks.
Though i will probably buy the Xenos decks too
That too same time. And just to double check you aren't getting leviathan right? As same deck is there as well.
nah i only have orks so that box would be useless for me.
Something like this is my first list going to look like, potentially at least. Is it good? No clue what so ever. Just a different assortment of "lets see what happens and i wanna try out". And when im looking at the list i feel like: wow, i have almost nothing on the table.
i would ditch a grot squad (you can get only 1cp back per round) and the squigbuggy
get a trukk for either burnaz or flashgitz and a painboss for the snaggaz, then you have 35 left for enhancements. HWKC and 4+++ or retreat and charge OR the +2 movement one and 10points for the GW overlords
for your second list... take only 5 nobz and use the points for characters... i think 10th benefits alot from their buffs
5nobz + warboss is still nasty.
painboss is juicy for bringing d3 snaggaz back and 5+++
what do you guys think of the grot leader wordsnagga? scouting gretchin sounds great for blocking the enemy... and -1 to wound doesnt get them autodeleted once looked at wrong
i would ditch a grot squad (you can get only 1cp back per round) and the squigbuggy
get a trukk for either burnaz or flashgitz and a painboss for the snaggaz, then you have 35 left for enhancements. HWKC and 4+++ or retreat and charge OR the +2 movement one and 10points for the GW overlords
for your second list... take only 5 nobz and use the points for characters... i think 10th benefits alot from their buffs
5nobz + warboss is still nasty.
painboss is juicy for bringing d3 snaggaz back and 5+++
what do you guys think of the grot leader wordsnagga? scouting gretchin sounds great for blocking the enemy... and -1 to wound doesnt get them autodeleted once looked at wrong
yea maybe. I have no idea how many objectives there are on the field so i just went 3 units for reasons.
Im not gonna get a trukk for the flash gitz though. They are going in to reserve. But i could use the points for something else.
So I had my first game of tenth at the weekend, just a small 1k game to start getting used to the new edition. I wasn't sure what I would be facing so I built a force that I just thought would be fun. I took Mozrog, a unit of 5 flashgitz with Badrukk in a trukk, another trukk with a squad of 5 nobz and a warboss, a unit of grots and 5 MANZ with a MA big Mek. In the end I played into thousand sons, we used the really basic mission from the core rules and so I just piled into the middle of the table and started blasting. It was a really fun and close game that the orks took by a single point at the end, we felt pretty tough and it was great to have strats that were actually useful and not 2cp each ! Mozrog was an absolute monster and took about 2 turns of shooting to go down after basically eating a mutalith vortex beast, the MANZ went through a helbrute in combat and were nice and tough, but I'm very happy to say the all stars were the flash gitz and Kaptin B, they piled out of a trukk and went through a squad of scarab termies in one shooting phase then overwatched a squad of flamer rubrics who had teleported over to barbecue them and deleted the squad. As a big gjtz fan it was glorious to see, the ammo runt for the one use of lethal hits and badrukks rerolls were so useful, it means they are actually dangerous. I'm playing some more games this weekend and looking forward to it, we definitely aren't OP but it feels like we have some options and I will take that all day
kustom mega cannon either from jet or mekgunz seems the only reliable ranged weapons we have for medium tanks... anything above T12 will be hard to remove, sadly even in CC
i think we will also struggle hard against 2+ or 1+ saves... we have really poor AP and no good and reliable means of pumping out MW
a landraider in cover will be nearly indestructable...
This might be weird but the more I look at a stompa, the more it seems okay. Maybe not competitive but okay. Costs as much as 2 knights, but it seems to stand up to them well enough.
Against smaller stuff it uses the overwatch stratagem like no other. Any squishy anti tank unit coming towards it would have to stand up to a lot of dice thrown at them, even tougher squads may lose a few models to the occasional lucky 6 on the cannons.
A horde with lethal hits will hurt him and I wouldn't want to get hit by the Valient's harpoon, but the defensive statline is okay.
anything above T10 you will want squighog's the anti-vehicle 4 becomes really your best bet. Outside that, mekguns, wazboom and kill rig, gun has S12 too, also buff gives S in fight phase and lethal on a 6.
This is my preliminary 1500 point list for my first game of 10th ed this weekend:
10th edition Ork Index List:
Spoiler:
Warboss with Power Klaw and Kombi-Weapon - 70
Enhancement: Follow Me Ladz!
Mad Dok Grotsnik - 75
Warboss with Power Klaw and Kombi-Weapon - 70
Nob with WAAAGH! Banner - 70
20 boyz - 170
- Nob with PK - 2 x Rokkit Launchas
20 Boyz - 170
- Nob with PK - 2 x Rokkit Launchas
5 Meganobz with Twin Killsaws - 165
Mega Armour Warboss - 95
Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun - 75
3 Mek Gunz - 135
- Kustom Mega Kannons
Kaptin Badrukk - 95
10 Flash Gitz - 190
- Ammo Runt
Trukk - 50
- Wrecking Ball
10 Gretchin + 1 Runtherd - 45
The plan is to attach one unit of boyz with a Warboss and Grotsnik, and the other unit of boyz with a Warboss and the Nob with WAAAGH! Banner, they're my core units that will be fighting for the scrum of the middle of the board objectives.
Kaptin Badrukk and his Flash Gitz go into Strategic Reserve so they can blast a unit the turn they come on and ideally are set up in a central location so they can stay still for better accuracy.
The Meganobz unit is meant to be a reserve threat to be held behind cover against anti-tank threats.
Gretchin are to farm and guard my home objective while the SAG Big Mek and Mek Gunz provide backfield fire support.
I'm mainly wondering if I should change my Follow Me Ladz enhancement to the Killchoppa instead and if Painboyz/Mad Dok is better or if the WAAAGH! Banner is more beneficial. Would love to hear what feedback you guys have.
Great ideas in your list. I'm really curious to hear how well the Mek Guns do and whether you think they are worthwhile or just do equivalent points in Lootas.
I think if your Boyz are footslogging then a Painboy makes a lot of sense and with only 40 Boyz I'd lean more towards the Painboy over the Waagh banner.
The Red Hobbit wrote: Great ideas in your list. I'm really curious to hear how well the Mek Guns do and whether you think they are worthwhile or just do equivalent points in Lootas.
I think if your Boyz are footslogging then a Painboy makes a lot of sense and with only 40 Boyz I'd lean more towards the Painboy over the Waagh banner.
Who is going in the Trukk?
The 5 Meganobz with the Mega-Armoured Warboss. I was debating getting a trukk for the Flash Gitz and Badrukk to get them into position for shooting but points were a bit tight and I figured I may as well use Strategic Reserves for once to change things up.
Good point as well regarding the Painboy, though I will be honest I think I chose the WAAAGH! Banner initially so I can test out new stuff, I think this is the first time I've actually been excited to use the WAAAGH Banner Nob for like 3 editions xD
Vineheart01 wrote: am i missing something, or are we seriously lacking in the anti-big thing department?
The index is covered in S7-9 attacks with at least 1 ap, but im seeing very very little anti-vehicle or S12+ attacks even in melee.
I almost feel like im forced to use Squighogs, since they look pretty good at dealing with vehicles this go around.
The thing you are most likely missing is that this is the same for everyone now. Wounding vehicles on 5s is just how the game works now, kind of like you had to roll a 5+ to penetrate AV12 back when that was a thing.
Dedicated anti-tank is usually expensive and has a low number of attacks, making it inefficient against pretty much all other targets. Most armies, despite having such guns, still have to wear down vehicles with lethal hits, +1 wound effects and high damage, high AP weapons.
Good point as well regarding the Painboy, though I will be honest I think I chose the WAAAGH! Banner initially so I can test out new stuff, I think this is the first time I've actually been excited to use the WAAAGH Banner Nob for like 3 editions xD
Same here! I'm really looking forward to trying out the Banner. I remember using mine in 8th a few times but he never survived long.
I've been considering a greentide list over the weekend with 5x20 Boyz with 2 Warboss, 2 Pain Boys, and a Nob with the Banner to start and some backfield Lootas. I've been trying to decide if the Battlewagons are worth it, just to be able to dump a unit of 20+leader after hitting with the Deffrolla , or just stick to footslogging a whole mass of them.
This is my preliminary 1500 point list for my first game of 10th ed this weekend:
10th edition Ork Index List:
Warboss with Power Klaw and Kombi-Weapon - 70
Enhancement: Follow Me Ladz!
Mad Dok Grotsnik - 75
Warboss with Power Klaw and Kombi-Weapon - 70
Nob with WAAAGH! Banner - 70
20 boyz - 170
- Nob with PK - 2 x Rokkit Launchas
20 Boyz - 170
- Nob with PK - 2 x Rokkit Launchas
5 Meganobz with Twin Killsaws - 165
Mega Armour Warboss - 95
Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun - 75
3 Mek Gunz - 135
- Kustom Mega Kannons
Kaptin Badrukk - 95
10 Flash Gitz - 190
- Ammo Runt
Trukk - 50
- Wrecking Ball
10 Gretchin + 1 Runtherd - 45
The plan is to attach one unit of boyz with a Warboss and Grotsnik, and the other unit of boyz with a Warboss and the Nob with WAAAGH! Banner, they're my core units that will be fighting for the scrum of the middle of the board objectives.
Kaptin Badrukk and his Flash Gitz go into Strategic Reserve so they can blast a unit the turn they come on and ideally are set up in a central location so they can stay still for better accuracy.
The Meganobz unit is meant to be a reserve threat to be held behind cover against anti-tank threats.
Gretchin are to farm and guard my home objective while the SAG Big Mek and Mek Gunz provide backfield fire support.
I'm mainly wondering if I should change my Follow Me Ladz enhancement to the Killchoppa instead and if Painboyz/Mad Dok is better or if the WAAAGH! Banner is more beneficial. Would love to hear what feedback you guys have.
I'm surprised to see Grotznik here. I mentally put him into garbage tier already, what is your reason for picking him over a weird boy or a kff mek?
Sure, but FNP is 75 points for saving the equivalent of 85 points worth of boyz, assuming no multi-damage wounds involved. Fallback and charge isn't that attractive to me.
The KFF mek in comparison adds damage to the shootas in the back and the free rokkits we now get, while also providing two(!) turns of 4++ against shooting.
That's my opinion, anyways. I might totally be wrong, so I'm absolutely open to other opinions.
In terms of our anti heavy vehicle offense, I've taken the time to compile a list of all of our vaguely viable options (S10 or higher, devastating wounds, lethal hits, twin linked, etc). This list is excluding stratagems and ignoring the Waaagh for the most part as it basically bumps each unit with a Nob profile to S10 and the list would be huge for not a lot of substance.
Spoiler:
- Weirdboy. Relies on having 20 boys for S10 and 5 damage, and good AP. Not worth using for AT unless you can guarantee the 20 boys are surviving the way in, but can make do in a pinch.
- Wazbom. The mega kannon is amazing, and the Smasha gun is nice too. Fantastic ranged AT.
- MegaBoss. Great melee output, 'nuff said.
- PK warboss. Not as good as the MegaBoss but still pretty good. Very good during Waaagh.
- Tankbustas. The +1 to wound against vehicles carries these, and the bomb squigs and the tank hammer are really nice. Let down by box limitations and unit size, but might be a sleeper hit.
- Stompa. Big numbers go brrrr. Let down by being 800 points and taking up half the board.
- Squighogs. Absolute melee AT monsters. Their only downside is they're not quite as durable as their profile suggests they might be.
- Shokkjump Dragsta. Very manueverable and decent BS, but relies on fishing for devastating wounds to crack really hard targets. Could be a decent choice to plug a gap as it can hunt characters too.
- Nobs. With PKs they're decent during a Waaagh for the big stuff through volume of attacks. With kombi weapons you can fish for 6s for the devastating wounds, but overall a bad choice for killing tanks with KWs.
- Smasha Squig. Very good, incredible during a Waaagh, makes Squighogs even better. A+ melee AT.
- Mozrog. Shreds tanks and monsters in melee. A+.
- Morkanaut. Decent ranged output with the Mega Zappa, but is probably relying on melee to really kill big stuff. Decent.
- Mek Gunz. KMKs for everything on the ground, and Traktor Kannons for everything that can fly. A+.
- Mek. Only here because it has a situational Killsaw and it buffs our vehicles. Terrible on its own, good for supporting other units.
- Megatrakk Scrapjet. MWs on the charge is this units biggest input. Can also contribute with the rokkit kannon and wing missiles. Solidly kind of meh against heavier vehicles.
- MANz. PKs during the Waaagh and Killsaws everywhere else. Has devastating wounds during Waaagh as well. Will likely struggle due to low attack volume with Killsaws, but can be mitigated somewhat by a MegaBoss. Solidly okay.
- Kommandos. PK and Breacha Ram during a Waaagh for chipping some wounds alongside bomb squigs. We're never going to rely on these, but they can finish something off that's on the cusp of death.
- Kill Rig and Hunta Rig. Good melee threat thanks to being a Snagga unit, with a situational strong ranged attack. In theory you tag a unit with the Stikka Kannon then charge in to get your proper damage in, but you're likely not hitting that shooting attack.
- Gorkanaut. Very strong melee output and passable ranged output through volume of fire.
- Ghaz. Mini Gorkanaut, kill likely kill or cripple any tank he hits.
- Flash Gitz. A full sized unit shooting at the closest target with the ammo runt has the volume of fire to fish for lethal wounds. Better for hunting things like gravis or termites but is usable against tanks.
- Deffkoptas. MW shenanigans only. Not ideal, but good for finishing a hard to reach unit off or pestering something hiding out of LOS.
- Deff Dread. With all klaws it becomes a decentish melee threat, but can't be relied on to cover all your AT needs.
- Dakkajet. This is fishing for 6s and relying on sheer volume of fire. Might do some chip damage to clean up some weakened units. Not a proper AT unit.
- Burna Boys. If the vehicle is on an objective you can fish for mass 6s. Similar to the Dakkajet but slower.
- Blitza Bommer. Similar to Deffkoptas with MW shenanigans.
- Bossbunka. Not completely terrible if you can reliably get the sustained hits off, otherwise don't bother.
- MegaMek. It can take a killsaw, but is best served being with MANz and just outlasting the enemy vehicle.
- Squigboss. Like Mozrog, this shreds tanks. A+
- Beastboss. Pretty good for the same reasons the Smasha Squig is good, but much better if it can get charges in.
- Snagga Boys. With a Beastboss you're hitting on rerollable 2s. Fish for those 6s, you're going to have a lot of hits.
- Battlewagon. With a Deffrolla and a Rekkin' Ball it can do some okay damage, but it's better off as a supporting unit for bigger hitters and cleaning up what they can't finish.
What do you guys think about the Wurrboy in 10th? He seems pretty solid to me but I haven't heard anyone talk about him. 14ish s8 attacks are kinda wild.
Also, say he would join a unit of 20 bs boys, would their special rule apply to him as well?
Monster Hunters: Each time a model in this unit makes an
attack that targets a Monster or Vehicle unit, you can re-roll
the Hit roll.
Or would he be treated as a separate unit as the brb would suggest?
Gruxz wrote: What do you guys think about the Wurrboy in 10th? He seems pretty solid to me but I haven't heard anyone talk about him. 14ish s8 attacks are kinda wild.
Also, say he would join a unit of 20 bs boys, would their special rule apply to him as well?
Monster Hunters: Each time a model in this unit makes an
attack that targets a Monster or Vehicle unit, you can re-roll
the Hit roll.
Or would he be treated as a separate unit as the brb would suggest?
Attached units are treated as a single unit. Pg 39 under Leader.
Afrodactyl wrote: In terms of our anti heavy vehicle offense, I've taken the time to compile a list of all of our vaguely viable options (S10 or higher, devastating wounds, lethal hits, twin linked, etc).
If you actually calculate our unit efficiency, you quickly find out that we have very weak anti-tank for killing t10+ stuff. Let alone t12. If you calculate something like mek gunz vs eldar wraithknight... That's 1k+ pts of mek gunz all shooting at a knight to kill it. Just forget about it. Focus on scoring and killing weaker units off.
Gruxz wrote: What do you guys think about the Wurrboy in 10th? He seems pretty solid to me but I haven't heard anyone talk about him. 14ish s8 attacks are kinda wild.
Also, say he would join a unit of 20 bs boys, would their special rule apply to him as well?
Monster Hunters: Each time a model in this unit makes an
attack that targets a Monster or Vehicle unit, you can re-roll
the Hit roll.
Or would he be treated as a separate unit as the brb would suggest?
Attached units are treated as a single unit. Pg 39 under Leader.
So you can have 20 bs boys with 14 ish bs5 rerollable s8 ap-3 d2 attacks? Not too shabby
Afrodactyl wrote: In terms of our anti heavy vehicle offense, I've taken the time to compile a list of all of our vaguely viable options (S10 or higher, devastating wounds, lethal hits, twin linked, etc).
If you actually calculate our unit efficiency, you quickly find out that we have very weak anti-tank for killing t10+ stuff. Let alone t12. If you calculate something like mek gunz vs eldar wraithknight... That's 1k+ pts of mek gunz all shooting at a knight to kill it. Just forget about it. Focus on scoring and killing weaker units off.
Yeah, most of our heavy AT options are crap and boil down to fishing for MWs or Anti 4+ on Squigs.
The list was only for things we could potentially consider if we really needed to kill stuff, but I agree that our best solution to a land raider is probably running around it.
Afrodactyl wrote: In terms of our anti heavy vehicle offense, I've taken the time to compile a list of all of our vaguely viable options (S10 or higher, devastating wounds, lethal hits, twin linked, etc).
If you actually calculate our unit efficiency, you quickly find out that we have very weak anti-tank for killing t10+ stuff. Let alone t12. If you calculate something like mek gunz vs eldar wraithknight... That's 1k+ pts of mek gunz all shooting at a knight to kill it. Just forget about it. Focus on scoring and killing weaker units off.
This is my preliminary 1500 point list for my first game of 10th ed this weekend:
10th edition Ork Index List:
Warboss with Power Klaw and Kombi-Weapon - 70
Enhancement: Follow Me Ladz!
Mad Dok Grotsnik - 75
Warboss with Power Klaw and Kombi-Weapon - 70
Nob with WAAAGH! Banner - 70
20 boyz - 170
- Nob with PK - 2 x Rokkit Launchas
20 Boyz - 170
- Nob with PK - 2 x Rokkit Launchas
5 Meganobz with Twin Killsaws - 165
Mega Armour Warboss - 95
Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun - 75
3 Mek Gunz - 135
- Kustom Mega Kannons
Kaptin Badrukk - 95
10 Flash Gitz - 190
- Ammo Runt
Trukk - 50
- Wrecking Ball
10 Gretchin + 1 Runtherd - 45
The plan is to attach one unit of boyz with a Warboss and Grotsnik, and the other unit of boyz with a Warboss and the Nob with WAAAGH! Banner, they're my core units that will be fighting for the scrum of the middle of the board objectives.
Kaptin Badrukk and his Flash Gitz go into Strategic Reserve so they can blast a unit the turn they come on and ideally are set up in a central location so they can stay still for better accuracy.
The Meganobz unit is meant to be a reserve threat to be held behind cover against anti-tank threats.
Gretchin are to farm and guard my home objective while the SAG Big Mek and Mek Gunz provide backfield fire support.
I'm mainly wondering if I should change my Follow Me Ladz enhancement to the Killchoppa instead and if Painboyz/Mad Dok is better or if the WAAAGH! Banner is more beneficial. Would love to hear what feedback you guys have.
I'm surprised to see Grotznik here. I mentally put him into garbage tier already, what is your reason for picking him over a weird boy or a kff mek?
I was thinking initially that a) he's cheaper than a regular Painboy with slightly better damage output b) the FNP he provides works in both shooting and CC versus a KFF Mek and there seems to be a decent amount of weapons with devastating wounds and anti-infantry overlapping, so I figured it gives a level of versatility, though admittedly it is obviously worse against multi-damage weapons (though I figure they won't use as many on my boyz compared to my other units).
The fall back and charge probably won't come up that much, but it does give me potential flexibility of being able to leave an unfavourable combat while still being able to charge something else in the same turn.
Afrodactyl wrote: In terms of our anti heavy vehicle offense, I've taken the time to compile a list of all of our vaguely viable options (S10 or higher, devastating wounds, lethal hits, twin linked, etc).
If you actually calculate our unit efficiency, you quickly find out that we have very weak anti-tank for killing t10+ stuff. Let alone t12. If you calculate something like mek gunz vs eldar wraithknight... That's 1k+ pts of mek gunz all shooting at a knight to kill it. Just forget about it. Focus on scoring and killing weaker units off.
Are there armies which do not have this problem?
Eldar at the moment I think, though its due to undercosted Fire Prisms and Fate Dice+Reroll shenanigans more than anything else.
This is my preliminary 1500 point list for my first game of 10th ed this weekend:
10th edition Ork Index List:
Warboss with Power Klaw and Kombi-Weapon - 70
Enhancement: Follow Me Ladz!
Mad Dok Grotsnik - 75
Warboss with Power Klaw and Kombi-Weapon - 70
Nob with WAAAGH! Banner - 70
20 boyz - 170
- Nob with PK - 2 x Rokkit Launchas
20 Boyz - 170
- Nob with PK - 2 x Rokkit Launchas
5 Meganobz with Twin Killsaws - 165
Mega Armour Warboss - 95
Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun - 75
3 Mek Gunz - 135
- Kustom Mega Kannons
Kaptin Badrukk - 95
10 Flash Gitz - 190
- Ammo Runt
Trukk - 50
- Wrecking Ball
10 Gretchin + 1 Runtherd - 45
The plan is to attach one unit of boyz with a Warboss and Grotsnik, and the other unit of boyz with a Warboss and the Nob with WAAAGH! Banner, they're my core units that will be fighting for the scrum of the middle of the board objectives.
Kaptin Badrukk and his Flash Gitz go into Strategic Reserve so they can blast a unit the turn they come on and ideally are set up in a central location so they can stay still for better accuracy.
The Meganobz unit is meant to be a reserve threat to be held behind cover against anti-tank threats.
Gretchin are to farm and guard my home objective while the SAG Big Mek and Mek Gunz provide backfield fire support.
I'm mainly wondering if I should change my Follow Me Ladz enhancement to the Killchoppa instead and if Painboyz/Mad Dok is better or if the WAAAGH! Banner is more beneficial. Would love to hear what feedback you guys have.
I'm surprised to see Grotznik here. I mentally put him into garbage tier already, what is your reason for picking him over a weird boy or a kff mek?
Nah painboy and warboss is definitely the best combo for 20 man units. KFF doesn’t help in the current dev wound meta from top factions and in general isn’t that great when your already getting a 4+ with cover.
Well for Eldar and marines i already heard nerfs are on the way, and their on the chopping block by the looks, reddit is aflame with the lion.
Honestly i don't care about the beakies or knife ears, just krump them.
That's why i prefer balanced armies, and i think we are quite balanced, we have answers and tools to deal with high T but not easily. No army should be able to handle high T easily and not have a weakness somewhere else.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Beardedragon wrote: If you run 10 man units of boys or snagga boys, would you still run warbosses, painbosses or what ever leader with them?
Like, you could almost pay for an entirely new unit for each leader.
I think it might be worth a while, currently it's very difficult to validate MSU but their might be a spot, the painboy recovers models and prevent damage, it makes boy tarpiting more effective. Obviously, mileage may vary. But i think their in a quite good spot, we have options that's what i wanted at least.
Forceride wrote: Well for Eldar and marines i already heard nerfs are on the way, and their on the chopping block by the looks, reddit is aflame with the lion.
Honestly i don't care about the beakies or knife ears, just krump them.
That's why i prefer balanced armies, and i think we are quite balanced, we have answers and tools to deal with high T but not easily. No army should be able to handle high T easily and not have a weakness somewhere else.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Beardedragon wrote: If you run 10 man units of boys or snagga boys, would you still run warbosses, painbosses or what ever leader with them?
Like, you could almost pay for an entirely new unit for each leader.
I think it might be worth a while, currently it's very difficult to validate MSU but their might be a spot, the painboy recovers models and prevent damage, it makes boy tarpiting more effective. Obviously, mileage may vary. But i think their in a quite good spot, we have options that's what i wanted at least.
Because i had a list i havent tried (since i havent tried a single game yet) where i had 3x beast snagga boys, with beast boss, beastboss and painboss, in those units.
It just felt like i got almost no models on the table when having to pay for 2 beastbosses and a painboss.
On the other hand i could possibly pay for 20 more beast snaggas if i didnt buy any of the characters
Beardedragon wrote: If you run 10 man units of boys or snagga boys, would you still run warbosses, painbosses or what ever leader with them?
Like, you could almost pay for an entirely new unit for each leader.
If anyone wants me to run numbers, just lemme know the conditions. Not particularly interested in 10th, but I like math.
Ill take you up on that.
10 man boys with a painboy versus 10 man boys with a KFF. Whats best?
And if you can, find out, if its best to run beast snagga boys with a painboss, beastboss, or without. From a points per damage/points per save value point of view. Should you just save the points of the leader and buy an entirely new unit of boys?
I absolutely would run at least a leader in a 20 man unit of snagga boys, but im really unsure if i want to do that on a 10 man unit.
I said run numbers, not evaluate tactics and strategy.
As mentioned, I don't like what I've seen of 10th-if you have specific scenarios you're having trouble with the numbers on, I'll double check by running the numbers myself, but general tactics... Nah.
JNAProductions wrote: I said run numbers, not evaluate tactics and strategy. As mentioned, I don't like what I've seen of 10th-if you have specific scenarios you're having trouble with the numbers on, I'll double check by running the numbers myself, but general tactics... Nah.
as far as im aware it is a numbers question.
Boys with KFF big mek versus Boys with a painboy. What saves the most, with different AP values.
Sure it requires a spread sheet for different strength and ap valued attacks but i figured thats what you wanted.
But if you wanted something more simple then this: Damage difference between 8 lootas (and 2 spanners) moving but not in a transport so they benefit from rerolls of 1 but hitting on 6s (and another scenario where they shoot at someone at an objective) and being in a transport, getting +1 to hit from a mek but getting no values from their abilities.
if you are going by damage output and durability per point. you'll never use boyz again. well maybe to tarpit with 20 of them or to teleport them with weirboy
but in 90% of the situations you are better off with snaggaz. especially now that you can either take 10 or 20. nothing in between.
painboss looks good because i wanna run a couple of trukks. and space is at a premium here... i need those snaggaz to hit hard and survive as long as possible
3 s9 attacks, 5+++ , bringing back d3 snaggaz and occasionally heal a character 3 wounds is nothing to scoff at
i would at least try him out. maybe beastboss is better... time will tell.
tneva82 wrote: Also need damage for weapon as getting hit by dam2 hurts painboy lot if 1w unit. Improves for 2w units though...
Just ap not enough.
Also painboy better vs mortals obviously.
Yes and damage. But how many attacks actually give mortal wounds? I have no clue, i only play orks. And we dont have a ton of it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RedNoak wrote: if you are going by damage output and durability per point. you'll never use boyz again. well maybe to tarpit with 20 of them or to teleport them with weirboy
but in 90% of the situations you are better off with snaggaz. especially now that you can either take 10 or 20. nothing in between.
painboss looks good because i wnna run a couple of trukk. and space is at a premium here... i need thosesnaggaz to hit hard and survive as long as possible
3 s9 attacks, 5+++ , bringing back d3 snaggaz and occasionally heal a character 3 wounds is nothing to scoff at
i would at least try him out. maybe beastboss is better... time will tell.
I actually thought about bringing 20 boyz and a painboy and just slamming them on an objective, but my problem is that i have NO idea how durable they are in this new edition. It sounds good on paper.
Yes and damage. But how many attacks actually give mortal wounds? I have no clue, i only play orks. And we dont have a ton of it.
Thanks to devastating wounds quite a lot.
Nevermind until you face armies that really specialize at it like thousand sons.
Also field is only good vs ranged. Though whether you survive any melee that charges you anyway...
But word I heard today at gaming night was generally "so many mw's". Without even factoring in my thousands sons who were doing pretty silly amount despite my terminator blob getting to to their mw spam only once and forgetting to use doom bolt once.
I a not sure it's worth paying extra 40pts for a beastsnagga boys + painboss
Boyz + painboy are 250... their both same amount of wounds and save, just cheaper
The rerolls do little since their not intended to fight bit T units, anything above 5T and they will struggle anyway so why bother, their a tarpit unit, bring 20 at 210 and that's fine, their good versus infantry and taking damage but that's it.
They might bog down a monster or vehicle maybe shave a wound or 2 but i am not seeing them take it down.
I think this is intentional. I am not even counting the 2 rokkets the boys can have, just the normal profile, been thinking if actually shoota boys is better in them, that's how unimpressive both profiles are. Anyway i will be testing them.
JNAProductions i actually interested in your skills, what do the numbers say of nobz claws or big chopas vs something like T10 save 3 or 2? do the extra attacks make a difference versus the penalty? How big of a difference the extra pip of AP is? I really would like to run simulations on these, i recall having a site, i need to check if they updated, but i am trying to cross numbers with other people. So far i see nobz as the winner for efficiency threat for point but i need to run some numbers.
Crunching the numbers for a block of 10 with out boss buffs or exploding i am coming at around 6w dealt for both, 8w with boss, with a very small edge for claws on save 2, but very similar results for save 3.
27 attacks with strengh 5 (36 s6 on whaagh) with ap -1 hitting on 3+ is nothing to glance over...
vs murinz
27*2/3*2/3*1/2 = 6 so 3 dead marines
plus claw and exploding 6's... call it 4 dead marines on average.
on whaagh its 5 dead. they basically *could* make their points back in one turn of combat
for tarpitting... normal boyz with painboy can withstand quiet some damage (especially if you want to throw 1cp in for -1 to wound)
Automatically Appended Next Post: lol
just found out that gretchins are T5 in close combat
Honestly I reckon boyz are more for buff carrying than actual damage output. Ideal combination is 20 boyz, warboss and waaghbanner. The boss has pretty good damage output on the waaagh turn, especially with Headchoppa to throw in some extra mortals. And the banner lets you do it all twice, giving boys that invul twice to boot.
Though having a mix is a decent idea. A beastboss charging into any monster or vehicle is gonna hurt, dev wounds on the charge and anti vehicle means maybe 6 mortal wounds on a big thing on average?
check out the YMDC thread for details... but to summarize:
runtherd is not a character, so he is just part of the normal unit
page 15 rules commentary
If a non-Attached unit contains models with different Toughness
characteristics, for the purpose of determining that unit’s Toughness
characteristic, use the highest Toughness characteristic amongst all
of that unit’s models.
thats why the runterds ability 'runtherd' says: as long as gretchin models are in the unit, his toughness has the value 2
but it only specifies RANGED attacks
Runtherd: While this unit contains one or more Gretchin
models, each time a ranged attack targets this unit, Runtherd
models in this unit have a Toughness characteristic of 2.
so yeah against melee attacks you use his normal T5, so the whole unit is treated as T5
its obviously a mistake... like thrakka taking only 1 space in a trukk. still funny.
I've been running 3x10 boys + warboss in trukks as the base for my army and it's dominated in all my games, especially with ghaz nearby for the lethal hits. Also mozrog is way better than normal squigboss w/ killchoppa. Squigboss is still good, but mozrog is auto take imo. I also tried out the gorkanaut in my last game...blew up first turn . I still won though because triple boys/boss combo and mozrog hits like a trukk in waaagh turn.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just saw the -1 wound T5 grots trick on fb and will for sure be using that. Absolutely hilarious 😂
Tomsug wrote: Are the 20 boyz mobs a trap or not with the new engagement rule?
Boyz are vehicles for characters. If you don't want any of the leaders (Warboss and Weirdboy being the big ones here), you don't want boyz.
If you do want one of the leaders, I'd go with a 10/10 split between shootas and choppas, putting shootas (and rokkits) in the back and removing them first when you take casualties.
I've been considering a green tide list over the weekend. Here's what I'm considering for the core of the army.
10x Lootas = 110pts
20 Boyz + Painboy + Warboss = 320pts
20 Boyz + Painboy + Warboss = 320pts
20 Boyz + Weirdboy + Warboss = 295pts
Battlewagon containing 20 Boyz + Waagh Banner + Mek = 470pts
So that puts me at 1515pts with 80 Boyz, I've got another 20 I can field but unfortunately you can only do double Leader if one of them is a Warboss and I've already hit Rule of 3.
So I've got 485pts left and here are some of the options in my collection to take as support.
Put the Lootas in a Trukk with a Mek for +1 Hit = 95pts
Increase Lootas to 15 and add a KFF = 120pts
Shokkjump Dragsta = 85pts
Kommandos = 135pts
Dakkajet = 135pts
Wagon + 10x Nobz (would probably move the Banner Nob here as well) = 280pts
Another Battlewagon to transport Boyz = 185pts
Another 20x Boyz + Weirdboy for Da Jump in a different Round = 225
3x Deff Koptas = 115pts
This is where the inflexible model count has made it difficult getting it up to 2000pts Looking for suggestions on which of these would be efficient choices so I can round out my tide of boyz My local group tends to favor infantry (Marines, 1k Sons, WE, Necrons & Eldar) although there are two Knight players.
Finally managed to get my first game in. It was 2vs2 with 1000 pts each, I brought 3 Trukks with 5 Nobs+Warboss w Hwkc, 10 Beastsnaggas + Cybork Beastboss and 5 flash gitz + Badrukk, 10 grots, 3 Mekgunz (1 each of Traktor kannon bubble chukka and kmk) + shokkattackmek. I found overwatch from a knight crusader very oppressiv. 30+ high strength shots with reroll 1 and sustained hits for 1 cp is really nasty - and it is very difficult to stay out of Los in both movement and charge phase. Cost me 6 of the 10 snaggas. Mek gunz and shokk attack were great, beastboss is really tanky and flash gitz offer good shooting. Game was a win on mission, but we were nearly wiped out... CC seems so much harder, esp. Against high T knights...
The Red Hobbit wrote: I've been considering a green tide list over the weekend. Here's what I'm considering for the core of the army.
10x Lootas = 110pts
20 Boyz + Painboy + Warboss = 320pts
20 Boyz + Painboy + Warboss = 320pts
20 Boyz + Weirdboy + Warboss = 295pts
Battlewagon containing 20 Boyz + Waagh Banner + Mek = 470pts
So that puts me at 1515pts with 80 Boyz, I've got another 20 I can field but unfortunately you can only do double Leader if one of them is a Warboss and I've already hit Rule of 3.
So I've got 485pts left and here are some of the options in my collection to take as support.
Put the Lootas in a Trukk with a Mek for +1 Hit = 95pts
Increase Lootas to 15 and add a KFF = 120pts
Shokkjump Dragsta = 85pts
Kommandos = 135pts
Dakkajet = 135pts
Wagon + 10x Nobz (would probably move the Banner Nob here as well) = 280pts
Another Battlewagon to transport Boyz = 185pts
Another 20x Boyz + Weirdboy for Da Jump in a different Round = 225
3x Deff Koptas = 115pts
This is where the inflexible model count has made it difficult getting it up to 2000pts Looking for suggestions on which of these would be efficient choices so I can round out my tide of boyz My local group tends to favor infantry (Marines, 1k Sons, WE, Necrons & Eldar) although there are two Knight players.
Get something against high T or you will only tickle some list's. Mek guns, wazboom etc
Automatically Appended Next Post: also the warhammer app from GW is out, as expected the app will be paywalled shortly
Yeah I think Mek Guns are the way to go, I'll have to order some. I'm curious if they'll interact well with the Mek Boy's Workshop since both units will likely stay stationary.
I noticed on the warhammer app that you can add individual models to units instead of having to do the 5-10 increments. Hopefully that means we won’t be stuck in this power level hell when the codex drops.
Went to my first 2k 10th edition game today. It was an absolut learning game so we probably made a lot of mistakes. We also only had printed versions of the secondaries so we had to play fixed.
None of us knew how much one could score on primary/secondaries but we went 50 primaries max, and 20 for each secondary, and we picked 2 secondaries.
He faintly recalled thats how it was so we just rolled with it. We also had no idea how much CP to start with. He recalled one started with 3CP but i recalled watching streams where they had 0 to begin with, so we started with 0 as well.
Anyway, he played thousand sons.
I did not make a super competitive list i just wanted to try things out. Needless to say i lost but not by a lot. It was a 58-68 game loss to me.
Things of note for me: Mozrog was charged by magnus (sadly i didnt do the charging) and was throwing hands with magnus for 2 turns and died in the end to some shooting. But in general, Mozzie did really really well. The -1AP is really atrocious on his weapon, but if you get to charge you can do some mortal wounds on a +5 i believe, so that sort of makes up for it. But in my case i WAS charged so i couldnt do that. Still though, he tanked a lot of shots, so definitely worth the 195 points.
Gorkanaut/morkanaut i mean.. I dont know if they are good or bad yet. Because playing against thousand sons, they just go: Oops, now you cant take a save" and then the unit just dies outright. Only 1 of my gorkanauts actually went in to close combat against a Vortex Beast and only got 2 wounds out of his 6 attacks, one which was saved and the other which only did 4 damage due to feel no pains. That was probably way below average damage, but considering i pay 295 points for my model and he paid 145 im surprised the Gorkanaut isnt actually more of a beast in CC than it is, given the shooting is rather sub par.
I also had high hopes from the Morkanauts shooting on a +4 on a waagh turn, but i had nothing to really shoot except terminators while it was still alive, and they just tanked.. everything.
On the other hand, Deff dreads did surprisingly well with their +2 save, higher toughness and better move. They also battle shocked a unit of termies so that he lost an objective. The loss of -1 AP to melee is a bit sad, and 150 points is definitely not amazing at all, but they tank a good amount of damage in Melee versus those terminators due to the +2 save. So while i think 150 points is too much for a model with 8 wounds (the vortex beast is 145 points with like 13 wounds, what the feth?) the deff dread is a good model with its better profile. But it definitely needs to be cheaper.
Beast snagga boys seem.. good id say and 2 objective control on grots? Super duper for such an otherwise trash unit (from a fighting point of view, grots are good and vital). Im debating with my self if i should have 2 units of 3 units of grots. On one hand, you dont really run good bits anymore, but i kinda like that i can easily screen out my backline in case of deepstrikes or relocates. And thats just easier with 3 units rather than 2. But im not in need of 3 units if there are no relocates or deepstrikes.. hmm..
tneva82 wrote: For the record you played it right. 50 max for primary, 40 max on secondaries, 0 cp to start with.
Ah thats great.
Does any of you ladz know if we can use Ere we go" on a unit embarked in a transport? They are technically not on the table. The question came up but we played it as we couldnt.
Best list I can do… lots of bodies and lots of damage and lots of OC and lots of mobility and durability…only issue I see is tactical missions might give out decent amount of vehicle or character assassination points…. feel free to tear it up…
Spoiler:
Goff pressure:new and improved
Ork 10th (2000 Points)
Orks
Waaagh! Tribe
Strike Force (2000 Points)
CHARACTERS
Beastboss (80 Points)- leading 10x beastsnaggas in trukk
• 1x Beast Snagga klaw
1x Beastchoppa
1x Shoota
Beastboss (80 Points)- leading 10x beastsnaggas on trukk
• 1x Beast Snagga klaw
1x Beastchoppa
1x Shoota
Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun (75 Points)- leading 2x mekguns in backfield
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Grot Assistant
1x Shokk attack gun
Kaptin Badrukk (95 Points)-leading 10x flashgitz in trukk
• 1x Choppa
1x Da Rippa
1x Slugga
Mozrog Skragbad (195 Points)- durable melee missle (ard as nails here)
• Warlord
• 1x Big Chompa’s jaws
1x Gutrippa
1x Thump gun
Nob on Smasha Squig (95 Points) -mortal wound bomb leading 6x squigriders
• 1x Big choppa
1x Slugga
1x Smasha squig jaws
• Enhancements: Headwoppa’s Killchoppa
Warboss (70 Points)- leading 10x nobs in trukk
• 1x Attack Squig
1x Power Klaw
1x Kombi-weapon
1x Twin slugga
Zodgrod Wortsnagga (80 Points)- midfield move blocking w 20x supergrunts and 2x runtherders
• 1x Da Grabzappa
1x Slugga
Is there a rule I'm missing that says you can have multiple leaders in one squad? I keep seeing people mention using both a warboss and a painboy in the same squad and I was under the impression is was one leader allowed per unit.
Also I just realized that the way heavy weapon squads work makes any +1 to hit bonus completely useless to them. Very disappointing. Definitely screws over other armies more than it does us, but I was thinking of trying to buff a truck full of lootaz or flash gitz with a mini mek.
OOTN wrote: Is there a rule I'm missing that says you can have multiple leaders in one squad? I keep seeing people mention using both a warboss and a painboy in the same squad and I was under the impression is was one leader allowed per unit.
Also I just realized that the way heavy weapon squads work makes any +1 to hit bonus completely useless to them. Very disappointing. Definitely screws over other armies more than it does us, but I was thinking of trying to buff a truck full of lootaz or flash gitz with a mini mek.
Not completely useless. -1 to hit things are still a thing. Just my 1st game I ran into situation where I had -1 to hit and once even -2 at which point ability to get +2 to hit would have been welcome.
RedNoak wrote: if you are going by damage output and durability per point. you'll never use boyz again. well maybe to tarpit with 20 of them or to teleport them with weirboy
but in 90% of the situations you are better off with snaggaz. especially now that you can either take 10 or 20. nothing in between.
painboss looks good because i wanna run a couple of trukks. and space is at a premium here... i need those snaggaz to hit hard and survive as long as possible
3 s9 attacks, 5+++ , bringing back d3 snaggaz and occasionally heal a character 3 wounds is nothing to scoff at
i would at least try him out. maybe beastboss is better... time will tell.
I like how you say that beast snaggas are better than Boyz in all situations due to points efficiency and then immediately ruin that efficiency by insisting on a Painboss.
At least the Beastboss adds 1 to hit and does considerable mortal wounds on 4+ devastating wounds.
I really, honestly, do not understand the point of the Painboss in snaggas squads. What value is he bringing to the unit that wouldn't be solved by spending those points on more snaggas?
RedNoak wrote: if you are going by damage output and durability per point. you'll never use boyz again. well maybe to tarpit with 20 of them or to teleport them with weirboy
but in 90% of the situations you are better off with snaggaz. especially now that you can either take 10 or 20. nothing in between.
painboss looks good because i wanna run a couple of trukks. and space is at a premium here... i need those snaggaz to hit hard and survive as long as possible
3 s9 attacks, 5+++ , bringing back d3 snaggaz and occasionally heal a character 3 wounds is nothing to scoff at
i would at least try him out. maybe beastboss is better... time will tell.
I like how you say that beast snaggas are better than Boyz in all situations due to points efficiency and then immediately ruin that efficiency by insisting on a Painboss.
At least the Beastboss adds 1 to hit and does considerable mortal wounds on 4+ devastating wounds.
I really, honestly, do not understand the point of the Painboss in snaggas squads. What value is he bringing to the unit that wouldn't be solved by spending those points on more snaggas?
If you bring mozrog or a beastboss on squig he can heal them.
Otherwise you are not going to heal a wounded mozzie or beastie boss on squig. So they add that value.
TedNugent wrote: I really, honestly, do not understand the point of the Painboss in snaggas squads. What value is he bringing to the unit that wouldn't be solved by spending those points on more snaggas?
20 snaggas cost 210. Requires 30 damage to kill through 5++ so 10 extra snaggas. 10 snaggas cost 105 which is more than 80 of painboy. Plus d3 back and it's own combat ability.
Doesn't seem that bad unless unit of 20 is pure junk to begin with.
Now if 10 will do job just as well as 20 so you are better of having 2 units of 10 and one hides on the turn other unit does the job then 10 naked snaggas way to go.
Plus of course if there's better buff for 20 to do the role than just more durability. But for 20 units 20+painboss takes more effort to take down than 20+10.
TedNugent wrote: I really, honestly, do not understand the point of the Painboss in snaggas squads. What value is he bringing to the unit that wouldn't be solved by spending those points on more snaggas?
20 snaggas cost 210. Requires 30 damage to kill through 5++ so 10 extra snaggas. 10 snaggas cost 105 which is more than 80 of painboy. Plus d3 back and it's own combat ability.
Doesn't seem that bad unless unit of 20 is pure junk to begin with.
Now if 10 will do job just as well as 20 so you are better of having 2 units of 10 and one hides on the turn other unit does the job then 10 naked snaggas way to go.
Plus of course if there's better buff for 20 to do the role than just more durability. But for 20 units 20+painboss takes more effort to take down than 20+10.
Beast snaggas have a base 6+ fnp, so you can only attribute the rolls of 5 to the value of a painboss. Using your quick math would be 5 beast snagga boys worth ~53points.
JohnU wrote: What was your Dred loadout? All Klaws?
Tying up Magnus for two turns while still being shot at is a pretty good show for Moz, I'd say.
Oh yea sorry. Dreads we full klaws.
I threw -1 to wound on him at a point, that really did wonders.
dread is not eligible for the -1, the strat excludes vehicles and gretchin.
him as in mozrog, but i understand your confusion
Oh, yeah great use mate, my confusion. Btw i don't think the snaggas are a good use unit, the reason i say is they get close to the cost of 10 nobz and their far less offensive add in transports/warboss and you get more mileage out of nobz. Point wise is pretty close. If you want tarpit unit i would say boys with painboy might be more efficient , since they cost less.
Yeah I've been wondering what they'll the biker boss. Perhaps he'll give the unit he's leading the old dust cloud protection and +1 to Advance & Charge.
Warboss on a Warbike is only 80pts, looking forward to seeing his rules.
Yeah, fingers crossed he has an ability that's better than the Deffkilla Wartrike that has actual synergy with warbikers.
Grot mega tank at 110 points? This will either be a very gakky shooting platform or a really freaking good one i think.
Also im surprised that the warboss on bike even survived, i thought he was shafted? Alongside grot tanks.
Mega dread and Meka Dread at 225-230 points seem really excessive. They will need good rules and stats to make up for that.
Garg squig at 440. Ooof. But i guess when the Stompa is 800 and the garg squig has the same amount of wounds, what to expect really.
Also the Kill tank at 305 its essentially a morkanaut price wise. Cant wait to see datasheets for these models.The Kill tank can either be decent or terrible. As with so many other things.
Warboss on a Warbike is only 80pts, looking forward to seeing his rules. Gargantuan Squiggoth at 440pts
Interesting warboss on warbike is included they discontinued the model… pleasantly surprised and it’s a decent price too… no killaklaw. So his damage is down but maybe he buffs bikes; they just need a little more to be a competitive unit.
Nobs on bike I am hopeful for something decent although I doubt they increase thier damage which is what bikes lack and instead increase durability (wounds/toughness).
I doubt bigtrakk beats trukk based on points but that killtank is a good price and just as much as a naut.
The dreads look overpriced and I doubt they have an ability that makes up for it like deffdread.
Warboss on a Warbike is only 80pts, looking forward to seeing his rules. Gargantuan Squiggoth at 440pts
Interesting warboss on warbike is included they discontinued the model… pleasantly surprised and it’s a decent price too… no killaklaw. So his damage is down but maybe he buffs bikes; they just need a little more to be a competitive unit.
Nobs on bike I am hopeful for something decent although I doubt they increase thier damage which is what bikes lack and instead increase durability (wounds/toughness).
I doubt bigtrakk beats trukk based on points but that killtank is a good price and just as much as a naut.
The dreads look overpriced and I doubt they have an ability that makes up for it like deffdread.
It would be nice if they took the opportunity to make the Mega Dread do something for other Walkerz units, like a sort of mini-boss, since he can't actually lead them as units, with either an aura or some sort of ability in the command phase to make it up for Dread WAAAGH! players who've been shafted for a couple of editions now.
The Big Trakk miiiight have a very small niche if it still gets the Supa Kannon and still has a transport capacity. Stick a load of Lootas or Flash Gitz in it then you've got a trukk equivalent that can actually do some damage after its kicked out its passengers, or join in with the Dakka.
The Gargantuan Squiggoth could also be useful.... Provided you can get it across the board, in which case it's probably immediately pulping whatever it hits outside of opposing super heavies.
Comparing the Big Squig to it's likely closest comparison, the Gorkanaut, for 150ish points more than the naut you get;
1. 2" more movement, 1 point of Toughness, 10 Wounds and 4 OC.
2. Trading lots of anti-infantry shooting for 2d6KMK-esque shots, and doesn't take a -1 for shooting in engagement range. This presumably applies to anything using the 20 man firing deck.
3. Slightly lower strength on the strike melee attack (still wounding most vehicles on 3s) but a huuuge damage increase when they land. Also has a much improved sweep attack, but sadly lacks the +1 to hit during Waaagh.
Left to run around on its own, it's a pretty fast, durable beater and could be used as a distraction carnifex dialled up to 11.
You could also load it up with burnas and have a pretty potent gunboat that multicharges units and goes absolutely hog wild in engagement range.
Notably, you can use Orkz is Never Beaten and Ard as Nails on the Squiggoth. Suddenly making it way more durable, and giving no care to whether it gets charged or units with Fights First.
I will be using one regardless of whether it's worth taking
Convenient that it's 10 points less than 5 MANz, a Mega Mek and a Battlewagon
Notably, you can use Orkz is Never Beaten and Ard as Nails on the Squiggoth. Suddenly making it way more durable, and giving no care to whether it gets charged or units with Fights First.
I will be using one regardless of whether it's worth taking
Sounds fantastically durable, please post how the game goes once you run one.
Notably, you can use Orkz is Never Beaten and Ard as Nails on the Squiggoth. Suddenly making it way more durable, and giving no care to whether it gets charged or units with Fights First.
I will be using one regardless of whether it's worth taking
Sounds fantastically durable, please post how the game goes once you run one.
I can guarantee you I will just be making dinosaur noises the whole game and will completely forget about objectives in favour of squishing things
RedNoak wrote: if you are going by damage output and durability per point. you'll never use boyz again. well maybe to tarpit with 20 of them or to teleport them with weirboy
but in 90% of the situations you are better off with snaggaz. especially now that you can either take 10 or 20. nothing in between.
painboss looks good because i wanna run a couple of trukks. and space is at a premium here... i need those snaggaz to hit hard and survive as long as possible
3 s9 attacks, 5+++ , bringing back d3 snaggaz and occasionally heal a character 3 wounds is nothing to scoff at
i would at least try him out. maybe beastboss is better... time will tell.
I like how you say that beast snaggas are better than Boyz in all situations due to points efficiency and then immediately ruin that efficiency by insisting on a Painboss.
At least the Beastboss adds 1 to hit and does considerable mortal wounds on 4+ devastating wounds.
I really, honestly, do not understand the point of the Painboss in snaggas squads. What value is he bringing to the unit that wouldn't be solved by spending those points on more snaggas?
well, you forgot my point about trukks and space is a premium reccource too. i cant put 20 snaggaz in a trukk.
if i field a trukk with snaggaz i need to bring as much punch/survivability as i can, since the trukk costs 50 points.
i also cant simply bring another squad of 10... then you'ld have to pay for the trukk too.
if the painboy makes the truksquad slightly more durable and lets me fight one more round, ties up an enemy for a bit longer or contests an objective one more turn... i gladly pay in points efficiency.
also "insisting" is a strong word.. i said i would atleast try him out. not that i would recommend him every time. same goes for the boyz. in raw damage output snaggaz are better then boyz point per point. if you want CC power you should take snaggaz. maybe boyz are a better tarpitting unit... but then why not take gretchin they're T5 in CC too
also dont forget you cant compare 105 points of snaggaz vs 105 points of boyz anymore. they come in fixed numbers, either 10 or 20. its not so easy to math out anymore
As forgeworld stuff goes... yay for the bikerboss, buh for the chinork
but what i am really interested in is the lil squiggoth. if the howdah rule still is the same... lootaz could hit on 5+ again, kmb on 4+ and flashgitz on 4+ too
could be a nice shooting platform. and since it wants to be in CC anyway, Lottaz would get their RF 1 bonus off easily
btw am i reading it right that the dread can only have 2 kmb's and it must trade all CCW's for them?
RedNoak wrote: if you are going by damage output and durability per point. you'll never use boyz again. well maybe to tarpit with 20 of them or to teleport them with weirboy
but in 90% of the situations you are better off with snaggaz. especially now that you can either take 10 or 20. nothing in between.
painboss looks good because i wanna run a couple of trukks. and space is at a premium here... i need those snaggaz to hit hard and survive as long as possible
3 s9 attacks, 5+++ , bringing back d3 snaggaz and occasionally heal a character 3 wounds is nothing to scoff at
i would at least try him out. maybe beastboss is better... time will tell.
I like how you say that beast snaggas are better than Boyz in all situations due to points efficiency and then immediately ruin that efficiency by insisting on a Painboss.
At least the Beastboss adds 1 to hit and does considerable mortal wounds on 4+ devastating wounds.
I really, honestly, do not understand the point of the Painboss in snaggas squads. What value is he bringing to the unit that wouldn't be solved by spending those points on more snaggas?
well, you forgot my point about trukks and space is a premium reccource too. i cant put 20 snaggaz in a trukk.
if i field a trukk with snaggaz i need to bring as much punch/survivability as i can, since the trukk costs 50 points.
i also cant simply bring another squad of 10... then you'ld have to pay for the trukk too.
if the painboy makes the truksquad slightly more durable and lets me fight one more round, ties up an enemy for a bit longer or contests an objective one more turn... i gladly pay in points efficiency.
also "insisting" is a strong word.. i said i would atleast try him out. not that i would recommend him every time. same goes for the boyz. in raw damage output snaggaz are better then boyz point per point. if you want CC power you should take snaggaz. maybe boyz are a better tarpitting unit... but then why not take gretchin they're T5 in CC too
also dont forget you cant compare 105 points of snaggaz vs 105 points of boyz anymore. they come in fixed numbers, either 10 or 20. its not so easy to math out anymore
As forgeworld stuff goes... yay for the bikerboss, buh for the chinork
but what i am really interested in is the lil squiggoth. if the howdah rule still is the same... lootaz could hit on 5+ again, kmb on 4+ and flashgitz on 4+ too
could be a nice shooting platform. and since it wants to be in CC anyway, Lottaz would get their RF 1 bonus off easily
btw am i reading it right that the dread can only have 2 kmb's and it must trade all CCW's for them?
Sry but i am not sure i agree on this, while sure if you leave sanggas as they are their pretty good for their point's, 210 pts for fnp and good melee punch is always nice and cheap, the moment you add a painboss the equation goes the other way, 5++ and a extra claw at 280 becomes costly, all for making a unit a bit more durable and add little more punch.
On the other side boyz will be cheaper at 250, 2 claws + 2 rockets, also the chance to cause mortal wounds
While i can see value in keeping snaggas cheap i don't consider the investment worthwhile, after all, snaggas and boyz will be after the same units and trying to bog down big ones, at that job i favour the boyz, their simply have more options and are cheaper. You still going to struggle at killing a light vehicle with snaggas, their weapons is more anti elite or marine profile. The rerolls just helps, nothing much, since the problem is wounding on 5 or 4 is rough.
Yeah, that's not a bad idea, i still think it would be rather complicated to pull it off since both units want to do different things.. honestly taking a step back do we really want to take snaggas or boyz? Why not just 10 more nobz all with claws? it's 230 pts
We're in dire need of all the anti M/V offense we can get, so I think the Snaggas with Boss take it here as a good "allcomers" choice, with PK Nobs with Warboss being the close runner up.
Afrodactyl wrote: We're in dire need of all the anti M/V offense we can get, so I think the Snaggas with Boss take it here as a good "allcomers" choice, with PK Nobs with Warboss being the close runner up.
Is it? I just had one game so far, but it felt like warbosses and nobz hit like a wet noodle, barely able to scratch the paint on durable models.
Sry but i am not sure i agree on this, while sure if you leave sanggas as they are their pretty good for their point's, 210 pts for fnp and good melee punch is always nice and cheap, the moment you add a painboss the equation goes the other way, 5++ and a extra claw at 280 becomes costly, all for making a unit a bit more durable and add little more punch.
On the other side boyz will be cheaper at 250, 2 claws + 2 rockets, also the chance to cause mortal wounds
While i can see value in keeping snaggas cheap i don't consider the investment worthwhile, after all, snaggas and boyz will be after the same units and trying to bog down big ones, at that job i favour the boyz, their simply have more options and are cheaper. You still going to struggle at killing a light vehicle with snaggas, their weapons is more anti elite or marine profile. The rerolls just helps, nothing much, since the problem is wounding on 5 or 4 is rough.
sry but why does everybody misread my post?
painboss looks good because i wanna run a couple of trukks. and space is at a premium here... i need those snaggaz to hit hard and survive as long as possible
[...]
i would at least try him out. maybe beastboss is better... time will tell.
i run trukks. trukks fast but trukk cramped tight. need as much krumpin in that trukk as possible. painboss krump gud. painboss also heal gud. so maybe put painboss in trukk. maybe boss says: "nah!", krumps painboss dead and takes his place. mork knows best, if not gork krump him.
The spreadsheets are amazingly handy just to download even if you don't watch the video. Pretty good banter overall though I do heavily disagree with the boys tier they gave.
Afrodactyl wrote: We're in dire need of all the anti M/V offense we can get, so I think the Snaggas with Boss take it here as a good "allcomers" choice, with PK Nobs with Warboss being the close runner up.
Is it? I just had one game so far, but it felt like warbosses and nobz hit like a wet noodle, barely able to scratch the paint on durable models.
What did you send the Nobs in against if you don't mind me asking?
I feel like Nobs have had a bit of a shake up in target priorities. They're obviously not nearly as good as they once were against tanks and big monsters, but they're good against heavy infantry (dropping off at Terminator equivalent level), at least on paper.
Afrodactyl wrote: We're in dire need of all the anti M/V offense we can get, so I think the Snaggas with Boss take it here as a good "allcomers" choice, with PK Nobs with Warboss being the close runner up.
Is it? I just had one game so far, but it felt like warbosses and nobz hit like a wet noodle, barely able to scratch the paint on durable models.
What did you send the Nobs in against if you don't mind me asking?
I feel like Nobs have had a bit of a shake up in target priorities. They're obviously not nearly as good as they once were against tanks and big monsters, but they're good against heavy infantry (dropping off at Terminator equivalent level), at least on paper.
Nobz kinda feel like a decent damage sponge with their permanent Ard as nails (as long as the boss is alive) Maybe you could clear out some mid level infantry with all big choppas. Especially under waaagh with that nice str8.
Someone should double check my math but klaw and kill saw appears to be better than double killsaws on meganobz in the scenarios I can think of, is this accurate?
russellmoo wrote: Someone should double check my math but klaw and kill saw appears to be better than double killsaws on meganobz in the scenarios I can think of, is this accurate?
Depends on what scenarios you have in mind. Klaw and saw gives you versatility, but you lose shooting and the twin linked of saws.
Twin linked on saws is kinda nice for fishing for 6s, meshes nicely with the dev wounds on waaagh if you're facing anything with an invul.
russellmoo wrote: Someone should double check my math but klaw and kill saw appears to be better than double killsaws on meganobz in the scenarios I can think of, is this accurate?
Depends on what scenarios you have in mind. Klaw and saw gives you versatility, but you lose shooting and the twin linked of saws.
Twin linked on saws is kinda nice for fishing for 6s, meshes nicely with the dev wounds on waaagh if you're facing anything with an invul.
I guess what I am really asking is, Is the around 17% damage increase from going double saws really worth the loss of versatility, or losing out on shooting.
Or just more simply, what is the best meganob loadout?
I wouldnt write off the wazbom immediately.
Off the bat it feels overpriced a little but theres a lot going on here.
It has a 4++ with plane rules, so its not an easy thing to take down.
Yes its Smasha is only D3 S9 AP3 4d shots and its Wazbom blastas also D3 shots S10 AP3 D6d, but for an ork unit its pretty accurate with said shots.
Hits on 4s, rerolls 1s against non-fly. Except primaris marines a flying high toughness target isnt THAT common.
I think we have better options for the points right now but it isnt a useless option by any means.
More than anything flyers feel like a counter to lone operative at the moment. Just zip in from reserves, get within 12 then hope you can kill the unit.
Afrodactyl wrote: We're in dire need of all the anti M/V offense we can get, so I think the Snaggas with Boss take it here as a good "allcomers" choice, with PK Nobs with Warboss being the close runner up.
Is it? I just had one game so far, but it felt like warbosses and nobz hit like a wet noodle, barely able to scratch the paint on durable models.
What did you send the Nobs in against if you don't mind me asking?
The initial charge (with Waaagh! support) was against MANz that popped 'ard as nails, later I tried to pick of two surviving killa kanz. In both cases they just bounced off their charge target without any significant damage.
I feel like Nobs have had a bit of a shake up in target priorities. They're obviously not nearly as good as they once were against tanks and big monsters, but they're good against heavy infantry (dropping off at Terminator equivalent level), at least on paper.
Probably. Despite the similarity to 9th, it's a completely new game.
I'm looking to build a list but leave out all beast snagga units, as they don't fit my theme. Already got loads of kommandos and stormboys, grots, boys and trukks; was thinking got to get flash gitz with badruk, and got the models to make burna boyz and meganobz... anything i'm missing? Any of the speeed waaargh stuff essential? Are deff dredds too expensive and will they die before they get into combat? Should I take Nobz?
cody.d. wrote: More than anything flyers feel like a counter to lone operative at the moment. Just zip in from reserves, get within 12 then hope you can kill the unit.
That and;
●They're also my answer to rooting out those annoying units that like to hide/fire from non-LoS.
●They allow me to respond to how my opponents have deployed/moved on turn 1. Sometimes I can do that with the ground forces, sometimes not. But I can virtually always do it from the air.
PaddyMick wrote: I'm looking to build a list but leave out all beast snagga units, as they don't fit my theme. Already got loads of kommandos and stormboys, grots, boys and trukks; was thinking got to get flash gitz with badruk, and got the models to make burna boyz and meganobz... anything i'm missing?
Maybe you should check if you have all the leaders you need. Outside, looks good.
Any of the speeed waaargh stuff essential?
IMO this heavily depends on the warboss on warbike's rules and maybe nob bikers. What I see now looks like a bunch of puzzle pieces of an incomplete picture.
Are deff dredds too expensive and will they die before they get into combat?
I feel like this is a target saturation thing. In an infantry list it will draw fire from actual anti-tank guns like lascannons and railguns, but when there are squigs, vehicles and MANz around it could work well, especially if you mange to make heroic intervention work.
Thanks Jidmah. I was wondering also how to kill land raiders and big tough stuff at range, but the answer could be mek guns. Or don't try and just charge a spare trukk into them and leave it at that. I'm going to give the Morkanaut a try also.
PaddyMick wrote: Thanks Jidmah. I was wondering also how to kill land raiders and big tough stuff at range, but the answer could be mek guns. Or don't try and just charge a spare trukk into them and leave it at that. I'm going to give the Morkanaut a try also.
No matter how I do the math, it seems like killing tanks is just not worth it unless you have nothing else to kill.
Which makes me wonder how to approach knights outside of throwing my squiggoth at them.
PaddyMick wrote: Thanks Jidmah. I was wondering also how to kill land raiders and big tough stuff at range, but the answer could be mek guns. Or don't try and just charge a spare trukk into them and leave it at that. I'm going to give the Morkanaut a try also.
Not that trukk charge hinders much. Can shoot out of combat so not going to be much of annoyance unless land raider really needs to go somewhere.
They forgot the units the bike boss can attach to but it's 5 points less than a Deffkill for -2W, worse shooting and similar melee, with exact same abilities...
Big Trakk gets +1T +2W over the Trukk for +25pts. Can carry 12, even with guns. MWs on charge. I think the price trade off is fair. Can carry your Stormboyz if you really want.
For 110, the Grot-Mega Tank might actually be...good?
Loving the mega and meka dread, mekadread self repairs and buffs itself LOL
Warboss on bike is a leader but leads... nothing LOL
Automatically Appended Next Post: normal squiggoth also looking really nice, same for kill tank and gargantuan
not a fan of grot mega tank, and i am barely warm to normal grot tanks although you can put 5 rockets on the tanks, they look like better kans at shooting and with higher move.
A unit of Nobz on bikes all armed with killsawz looks really spicy! If they fix the wb on bike to be able to lead(anything), then this could be a real menacing unit.
A minimum sized unit will, on waagh, pump out 13 attacks hitting on 3's, str 13, ap -3 2 damage. They can also auto adv 6" and have a 6" pile in/consolidate. All for 210 points.
So..... thinking about making the terrible decision to buy me some Orks. Not too concerned about making them competitive, but really wanting to do something speed waaagh focused. What buggies are currently worth picking up?
Barely any buggie is worth it, their weird this edition, best one looks to be rukkatruck against infantry and the dragsta, to steal objectives and snipe char, and scrajet? Maybe? Have to test... if the meta revolves around vehicles and monsters it will be a struggle since at best they have 9S and also we lack rules to support shooting, you will probably want to buy mek's though.. i would advise to hold for now and wait for the codex to release new worth while detachment for shooting and speed waaghh. Just my thoughts.
Forceride wrote: Barely any buggie is worth it, their weird this edition, best one looks to be rukkatruck against infantry and the dragsta, to steal objectives and snipe char, and scrajet? Maybe? Have to test... if the meta revolves around vehicles and monsters it will be a struggle since at best they have 9S and also we lack rules to support shooting, you will probably want to buy mek's though.. i would advise to hold for now and wait for the codex to release new worth while detachment for shooting and speed waaghh. Just my thoughts.
Probably the best choice. Mostly just have the opportunity to pick up the Killdakka box at a pretty solid discount. Considering picking it up and sitting on it until I have an opportunity to focus on it. Plenty on my backlog at the moment either way.
Forceride wrote: Barely any buggie is worth it, their weird this edition, best one looks to be rukkatruck against infantry and the dragsta, to steal objectives and snipe char, and scrajet? Maybe? Have to test... if the meta revolves around vehicles and monsters it will be a struggle since at best they have 9S and also we lack rules to support shooting, you will probably want to buy mek's though.. i would advise to hold for now and wait for the codex to release new worth while detachment for shooting and speed waaghh. Just my thoughts.
Probably the best choice. Mostly just have the opportunity to pick up the Killdakka box at a pretty solid discount. Considering picking it up and sitting on it until I have an opportunity to focus on it. Plenty on my backlog at the moment either way.
Grot tanks seem like the big winner out of the fw. 10pts cheaper than kans for a faster rokkit platform plus one gets 2 rokkits. Garg squig I think will be fun to use, but I really wish they would of made its transport capacity same as bw. :(
Just caught up on fw sheets haven’t even read comments here but orks made out like bandits.
They screwed up big trakk sheet and didn’t reduce transport for suppakanon. For 25 pts more then trukk this transport is insane…
Warboss on bike fix the leader and nob bikers w pks are great
Nobs on bike.. better warbikers all w pks, needs warboss on bike but they are extremely fast. Whereas the normal warbikers were cheap they didn’t do anything well. This unit does hit harder and is a more self contained unit of mobile pks.
Big trakk- likely OP without errata
Small squiggoth- good price point on a tough transport, would be great if we didn’t have trukks and trakks
Killtank- is just straight better then nauts
Grot mega not my thing but worth the points
The above Are all great
Meka dread is good 4+bs and self heal able to double killkannon as well.. playable but a lil pricey for competitive a 5++ kff save would have made it competitive. (I would likely play klaw and killkannon varient for fun)
Big squig is good but still alot of points (ard as nails/fight on death saves this unit). Strats make this unit annoyingly difficult to kill.
Only miss is mega dread (just take meka dread, boombits aren’t worth it) and kinda grot mini tanks which are still ok but essentially just a killakan variant that’s arguably worse or at best the same.
Of the above bigtrakk will be seen in competitive lists even after an errata on transport. You might see a random garg squig do well in tourney too.
Forgot you can use -1 to wound on garg squig, never mind that thing is actually insanely durable for the points. Does anyone know of some “totally legal” fw sellers that might have garg squigs for a couple hundred bucks instead of having to take out a mortgage for a house I don’t have. 😂
I do find it weird that some vehicles get the 6+ invuln save like the Big Trakk and Mega/Meka Dreads but stuff like the Kill Tank and Grot Mega Tanks don't have it for some reason.
flaming tadpole wrote: Forgot you can use -1 to wound on garg squig, never mind that thing is actually insanely durable for the points. Does anyone know of some “totally legal” fw sellers that might have garg squigs for a couple hundred bucks instead of having to take out a mortgage for a house I don’t have. 😂
flaming tadpole wrote: Forgot you can use -1 to wound on garg squig, never mind that thing is actually insanely durable for the points. Does anyone know of some “totally legal” fw sellers that might have garg squigs for a couple hundred bucks instead of having to take out a mortgage for a house I don’t have. 😂
Grimskul wrote: I do find it weird that some vehicles get the 6+ invuln save like the Big Trakk and Mega/Meka Dreads but stuff like the Kill Tank and Grot Mega Tanks don't have it for some reason.
That is interesting. One of 10th's simplifications is swapping out the ramshackle rule for a 6+ Invul, I guess the Grot engineers are too good at their jobs for the tanks to be considered ramshackle
Grimskul wrote: I do find it weird that some vehicles get the 6+ invuln save like the Big Trakk and Mega/Meka Dreads but stuff like the Kill Tank and Grot Mega Tanks don't have it for some reason.
That is interesting. One of 10th's simplifications is swapping out the ramshackle rule for a 6+ Invul, I guess the Grot engineers are too good at their jobs for the tanks to be considered ramshackle
I mean given that Big Trakk's can't take killkannons like they say they can on their datasheet and how the WB on Warbike can't lead anything, hopefully this is just an oversight on GW's part.
Much rather bring grot tanks for shooting, that's 5 rockets for 4 tanks shooting in 3(with mek) with a move ability if anyone comes close.
I prefer the meka dreads but can see both squiggoth hitting the tables, the -1 strat and flamers being something interesting? Or vomiting melee on opponent.
The gargantuan has also fight on death and lance on the weapon, and hits D12 or swipes.
Big Trakk rules confuse me. It is not just a “hahaha they wrote a Killkanon instead of Supakannon” issue.
There is a model of Suppa Kannon this model can be equiped. It Is/was for sale.
There is absolutely no model of Kanon you can put it on. Yeah, great idea to kitbash something (kanons for free!) but this goes directly againts GW policy “rules just for stuff we have for sale”.
And the “supakannon” profila is obviously a Killkanon profile.
No, if there is new model on the way, GW realease the promo about the models first and rules later.
This is very much FUBAR datasheet.
The right version is just the Supakannon rules from squighog with zero or halfed transport capacity. This makes sence regarding the available plastic/resin for sale.
But I 'm not so idwalist expecting fix sooner than in 4-124 weeks. If any… say hallo to Kanonwagon without WAGON keyword…
Speaking about Kannonwagon…. Big Trakk with real Supa Kanon like gargsquig has… for 75p? Shut up and take my money!
Tomsug wrote: Big Trakk rules confuse me. It is not just a “hahaha they wrote a Killkanon instead of Supakannon” issue.
There is a model of Suppa Kannon this model can be equiped. It Is/was for sale.
There is absolutely no model of Kanon you can put it on. Yeah, great idea to kitbash something (kanons for free!) but this goes directly againts GW policy “rules just for stuff we have for sale”.
And the “supakannon” profila is obviously a Killkanon profile.
No, if there is new model on the way, GW realease the promo about the models first and rules later.
This is very much FUBAR datasheet.
The right version is just the Supakannon rules from squighog with zero or halfed transport capacity. This makes sence regarding the available plastic/resin for sale.
Fun fact - the squiggoth model originally wasn't meant to go with the supa cannon, but with a different one that is also out of print now.
The supa-kannon was last chance to buy a couple of months ago, so it's not surprising to see it disappear just like the lifta-droppa before.
By the time 11th rolls around I expect FW to be completely gone outside of titan-sized models. In essence, the last articles said as much anyways.
Tomsug wrote: Speaking about Kannonwagon…. Big Trakk with real Supa Kanon like gargsquig has… for 75p? Shut up and take my money!
Seem like the perfect datasheet for looted russes.
Funny how if you just want cheap Nobz with choppers to clear infantry it would be cheaper to buy Flash Gitz who has actual choppas + their snazzguns, than actual Nobz.
Also whats the point of Big choppas? The powerklaws seem vastly surperior.
Beardedragon wrote: Im not sure i like it for 110 points. No invul though it gets armor of contempt if i dont remember too wrongly.
only 2D3 rokkit attacks now and 10 shots that nets you 5 hits with str 5, and no AP. (sure you have rapid fire 10 but within 9 inches)
Why did they butcher our vehicles shooting capabilities like this?
Also why is the kustom mega blastas that it carries only shooting 2 shots rather than 3?
It used to be an amazing shooting platform though. 125 points for 7 scorchas was a steal.
It was also a steal at 160pts with 7 KMB. 7 - 21 S8 -3ap d6 damage shots hitting on 4+....
That's alot of Dakka. And I could put it in Tellyporta.
I deleted or at least mauled many targets throughout 2022 with this setup.
Now.... :(
But I'll still use it as it's part of my Grot army.
Beardedragon wrote: Im not sure i like it for 110 points. No invul though it gets armor of contempt if i dont remember too wrongly.
only 2D3 rokkit attacks now and 10 shots that nets you 5 hits with str 5, and no AP. (sure you have rapid fire 10 but within 9 inches)
Why did they butcher our vehicles shooting capabilities like this?
Also why is the kustom mega blastas that it carries only shooting 2 shots rather than 3?
It used to be an amazing shooting platform though. 125 points for 7 scorchas was a steal.
It was also a steal at 160pts with 7 KMB. 7 - 21 S8 -3ap d6 damage shots hitting on 4+....
That's alot of Dakka. And I could put it in Tellyporta.
I deleted or at least mauled many targets throughout 2022 with this setup.
Now.... :(
But I'll still use it as it's part of my Grot army.
Well. from a durbility point of view it wasnt great at 160 points. Sure the damage was great though. But the scorcha tank just hit all the right spots at being cheap for its durbility and cheap for its damage
Beardedragon wrote: Im not sure i like it for 110 points. No invul though it gets armor of contempt if i dont remember too wrongly.
only 2D3 rokkit attacks now and 10 shots that nets you 5 hits with str 5, and no AP. (sure you have rapid fire 10 but within 9 inches)
Why did they butcher our vehicles shooting capabilities like this?
Also why is the kustom mega blastas that it carries only shooting 2 shots rather than 3?
It used to be an amazing shooting platform though. 125 points for 7 scorchas was a steal.
It was also a steal at 160pts with 7 KMB. 7 - 21 S8 -3ap d6 damage shots hitting on 4+....
That's alot of Dakka. And I could put it in Tellyporta.
I deleted or at least mauled many targets throughout 2022 with this setup.
Now.... :(
But I'll still use it as it's part of my Grot army.
TedNugent wrote: I don't know if I see the appeal of nob bikers, knowing that squighogs exist.
They're somehow more expensive.
Yes, but move 18” and charge in waaaghand taking Warboss on Warbike / Wartrike with them. Move 20” and charge with the enhancement. And than Consolidate 6”. They can be on the other side of the table in asingle turn.
Squighog boyz do their 10”+D6” = 13,5” ignoring modifiers. Totaly different ammount of movement.
Their CC is in comparison with the Killsaw Nobz different. Nobz are definitely better in killing elite infantry.
TedNugent wrote: I don't know if I see the appeal of nob bikers, knowing that squighogs exist.
They're somehow more expensive.
IMOGW made squig hogs to fill in the role nob bikers used to have, just like the squigboss and wartrike take the roles of warboss on warbiker and wazzdakka repectively.
Let's hope that enough marine players buy the new terminators and sternguard so GW keeps giving us actual replacement for aged units instead continuing with approach of creating replacements instead of upgrades.
I need to get to work on my 2nd one.
, or just stick to footslogging a whole mass of them.
Anyway i will be testing them.
Looking for suggestions on which of these would be efficient choices so I can round out my tide of boyz 
looking forward to seeing his rules. Gargantuan Squiggoth at 440pts 