Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just got my copy of IA:Apoc and it's pretty cool. Cool new unit types and formations, all in full color.

As I'm working on an Ork horde, that was the first thing I looked at, and the big Squiggoth is the big winner at the cost of an old rhino you get a "strength 7", "toughness 6", "wound 4" transport that carries 10 boys, plus for 20 more points you can get a strength 9 kannon. Very cool for it's cost. The Ork battle wagons are kinda neat as they have access to bolt on big shootas, but no access to Kill Kannons or Klaws.. I noticed that it looks like the designers started to design the Orks with the old codex then upgraded the weapons to the 4th ed codex. This seems to be an issue all though out the book.

There are new rules for Drop Pods where they enter the table as flyers, then land the following turn. The Damocles Rhino is now cool as it has an Orbital Bombardment and allows teleporters to reroll scatter.
Chaos got named Greater Deamons that cost between 500 and 1000 points each, but are awesome death machines. Any one up for a Blood thirster that is "toughtness 8' with "8 wounds" with "7 attacks" and a 2+/4+ save (and wings!!).

This book is all rules very little fluff, but all the datafaxes are in full color so it's really impressive. If you like to look at rules or want to play apoc, get this book.

There are a ton of units in this book so I'll stop talking about them and answer any questions.

The Valkyrie rules in there? Are they any good?

No Stats or anything, but how different is the Trygon from IA4? Did it keep it's Tunneling rule that allows it to bring a squad with it?

@Toreador: The Valkyrie looks awesome (but we all knew that) it's rules are not that exciting, Multi laser and 2 heavy bolters on a flying rhino that seats 12. I can hover and has a heavy lifter mode that allows it to carry Cyclops or Tarantulas, but you need the fuel tanks instead of Hellstrike missiles or Rocket pods. It's cheap, between a Russ and a Chimera in price.

@Platuan4th: Yes it makes a tunnel for a squad of gaunts, ravener, or Rippers to show up there next turn. One of my issues with this book are thematic rules that are not explained well, and this rule fits the bill, as the guants (or whatever) just sort of appear there with out rules that explain how this happened, is it like a on target deep strike or disembarking from a vehicle, or is it just like reserves? What happens it enemy units are on the tunnel (they had a turn to move there), then what happens? Over all the Trygon is a beast that is fast and tougher then a unupgraded Fex, but you can make a Fex that's slightly more survivable this this guy.

This is a nice book but it falls short in a couple areas.

The IG Formations are pretty much the same a the Apocalypse formations but you have all the variety of the FW models - This should have just been done in the apocalypse formations, all the special rules are the same.
Unfortunately none of the rules are here so if I had all the IA books then I would still have to go back to them for the individual FW tank rules, of course I don't actually have all of those books so I am SOL.

The DKoK Death Riders company has no special rule you just pay a few extra points to reqiure multiple squads to come on near the command squad. I hope this is just a typo, I am sure that they meant to put strategic redeployment in there.

I gues sthe Elysians are pretty much the same way

Why is drop pod in here at all?

The Damocles is awesome I think it may be too cheap.
I like the ancients assault force as well, a techmarine and a few dreadnoughts, boom you get a flank march... I guess dreads are faster walking than I thought

All the Macarius and Malacdor Variants look really nice

And the Manta is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen, it actually has some nice rules.

Anyway, just my initial thoughts

I'm really wondering if the Drop Pod rules in this book are an indication of how they will work in the marine codex redux, or just some forge world wackyness. The pods only carry 5 marines and can be shot down, are AV 10 when openned, and only deviate D6" instead of auto correcting. 5th ed would have too add Flyers to the core rule set though.

NinjaRay wrote:I'm really wondering if the Drop Pod rules in this book are an indication of how they will work in the marine codex redux, or just some forge world wackyness. The pods only carry 5 marines and can be shot down, are AV 10 when openned, and only deviate D6" instead of auto correcting. 5th ed would have too add Flyers to the core rule set though.

Someone should email Warwick. . .I'm sure he'll let us know what the deal is.

Gakk! As a Drop-pod marine specialist...this makes me worry alot. This was briefly discussed in another thread and worried me then, but I initially sort of 'blew it off'. ERROR. If I am going to play Apocalypse with complete strangers, there will be a fair amount of discussion about the rules to use.

IS IA(1,2 tantalos etc) an Apocalypse standard, or GW's?

Crikey, I'm in trouble......

akira5665 wrote:Gakk! As a Drop-pod marine specialist...this makes me worry alot. This was briefly discussed in another thread and worried me then, but I initially sort of 'blew it off'. ERROR. If I am going to play Apocalypse with complete strangers, there will be a fair amount of discussion about the rules to use.

IS IA(1,2 tantalos etc) an Apocalypse standard, or GW's?

My understanding is that if you use forgeworld pods you must use their rules but if you use GW-made drop pods you can use the rules in the marine codex.

Scratchbuilds are of course illegal since they violate IP

Can you elaborate on the rules for the Manta, and how its so rediculous? It's point value has to be through the roof, just based on how heavy the model is.

NinjaRay wrote:Chaos got named Greater Deamons that cost between 500 and 1000 points each, but are awesome death machines. Any one up for a Blood thirster that is "toughtness 8' with "8 wounds" with "7 attacks" and a 2+/4+ save (and wings!!).

There are in fact just the 3 Greatest Demons, right? And do the points really range from 500 to 1000, and not 666 to 888???

Verrry interested to hear how they changed up the big guys, when somebody has IA:APOC who is familiar with the trial rules for these models.

- Salvage

Indeed the 3 featured demons are the kick ass FW ones. Points cost are all scarednumber/sacrednumber/sacrednumber.


Khorne and Slaanesh seem pretty much unchanged-- Slaanesh one still has the kick ass dreadaxe-esque weapon.

Nurgle has 10 W ! And crappy little heavy flamer type attack. His rusty cleaver thing doubles the actual number of W taken, ie. 1=2, 2=4 etc etc.

Best thing for chaos is the demon engine "coven" : X number of Defilers ( and note it specifies of any type so there must be at least 1 other variant planned <coughsUNBOUNDcoughs&gt and or Brass Scorpion. All units within X inches receive something staggerringly similar to the old parasitic possession upgrade from the previous codex.

Thanks red, it sounds like the Greatest Demons are still very much like the trial rules. Which is really great to hear

And now that I'm maybe 1/3 through painting my 1 defiler I don't think I'll ever run that demon engine coven, as much as I might like to

- Salvage

I've ordered my copy (or rather my Girlfriend has) and was hoping to get it before Chrismas. We've since recieved an email from Forgeworld informing us that due to unprecidented demand, the book won't be posted out to us for a minimum of 28 days ! ! ! ! Balls!

Dude, getting this delayed sucks. Which elads to my question.

Does Forgeworld send you an email with shipping info befor ethey ship something?

Or do they just ship it?

The manta is just ridiculous in sheer # of weapons and payload, which isn't new. The interesting rules are that it casts a shadow so when it lands it forces a Ld test, and it is so large you can hit it using normal BS, not 6+.

does its cost include the payload the FW website says it can carry (IIRC, 4 Hammerheads/Devilfish, 12 'suits, 40 Fire Warriors?). That does sound cool though, too bad I don't have a spare $1500 bucks

The Basic Manta does not include all it's transported units, how ever there is a Formation datafax that is a manta that's at least 75% loaded. It gives all the Tau in the formation Fearless and that's there the "Darken the Skies" rule comes from. "Darken The Skies" causes all enemy models in the open that are with in 24"s of the manta to take a Morale test or fail back. The Manta has something like 24 separate weapons systems, not counting the 10 seeker missiles.

double post

I got my copy yesterday, and have been poring over it with a fine tooth comb.

My initial impressions are decidedly mixed.

A lot of the medium to small single item datasheets are pretty good, but a lot of the formations seemed really rushed. In general, there is a lot of mis-formated stats, and column alignment issues here and there.

You also get really oddball decisions like the whole 2 completely different classes and rules for droppods. This would have been a perfect time for Forgeworld to say that their droppods models are the ones wanted by the playerbase and just refer them to the standard codex rules, but instead they were apparently so attached to their in house (bizarre) rules that they couldn't let them go.

We also find weird things like formations which charge you a point cost on top of the models then provide absolutely no benefits... (see the Death Corp Deathriders formation). The list goes on and on, but overall it seems like Forgeworld was in such a hurry to get this thing out the door, that they let lots of rules slip in that are either inconsistant with the standard Apocalypse book or just copied over verbatim with no real understanding of the in-game effects of the rules.

Overall rating: C

This thing really needed about one extra month to iron out the kinks and really price things out properly.

p.s., the Manta is pretty much unkillable in any standard length Apocalypse game and is costed about 25-50% to cheaply.

What about the Squiggoth Herd formation?

The squiggoth battle herd has two special rules "Da Big one" and "Da Rampage". "Da Big One" just means you set up with in 18" of the "Big One". "Da Rampge" is a single turn of 2d6 bonus movement and +1 attack.

Can you tell me if the rocket pods did indeed go from small blast templates to the 5' one? Also have the rules for the lightning or the vulture change that much>

bigred wrote:

p.s., the Manta is pretty much unkillable in any standard length Apocalypse game and is costed about 25-50% to cheaply.

Granted my copy of the book hasn't arrived yet, but I'm guessing it's guns won't have changed all that much since IA:3 with the exception of probably a destroyer strength on the rail guns solid shot. If so, isn't it a little undergunned compared to other titans (like the Warlord)? The Warlord can large parts of the table just disappear, while the Manta can only hammer a couple of squads. Also if they haven't made a Manta self-repair rule then the Warlord has a pretty huge advantage in being able to bring its guns back.

I'm not disagreeing with the practically unkillable part, but if my guesses are right, then it doesn't have all that much firepower and will be pretty vunerable to weapon destroyed results. For roughly the same cost I could bring in 8 Ion cannon Hammerheads and 6 Railgun Hammerheads with their standard upgrades, and while being more vunerable to enemy fire they would be more killy. 50% undercosted seems off to me.

Any superheavy can self-repair, and the more SP they have remaining, the better they are at it.

You are correct that the Warlord has superior offensive weapons, but the Manta is a flyer, meaning it can focus its lesser firepower (which is very formidable) wherever it wants on the tabletop from turn to turn. I've now run titans several times in apocalypse and their achilles heel is their speed. Once committed to the field, they are pretty much staying in that area. Foes can move mobile assets away from them, or usually just pound them repeatedly to get the driver stunned result turn after turn. Flyers don't have that issue, and can easily get to where they need to either for offense or to find a safe spot to repair.

I have absolutely no issue with the Manta's rules which seem to be a good description of its fluff abilities. Its just the cost that is off. 10SP with the protection of Eldar Holofields combined with the mobility of a flyer+hover mode should not be costed at 80% of a Warlord.

I got Imperial armour apocalypse for a freind and we spent a few hours going through some of it. It was really cool and I was very impressed by most everything. The only thing that bugged me was that the two Necron datasheets were pretty bland. Getting nightshroud between pylons and a res-orb within 12 inches of a pylon is good, but it seems to lack creativity when compard to the other armies datasheets.

bigred wrote:Any superheavy can self-repair, and the more SP they have remaining, the better they are at it.

I'm pretty sure super heavy flyers can't. I also don't have my Apoc book handy, but I'm very sure you'll find they can't if you look in the Super Heavy Fliers special rules.

Ubik, you are spot on. Superheavy fliers cannot use the damage control rule. I still stand by my eariler assesment on the Manta; its a deal for 2k.

A cynic might say they under-costed it as a reward to those brave souls who forked over the cash, but we know that bottom-line profits would never, ever enter into consideration when rules are being devised...

How do you even support a manta? It must be heavy as far as miniatures go. Would you put it on a normal GW flying base?

How's the Eldar Scorpion and Pheonix look?