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So calling all experienced Eldar players - what has been an effective [competitive] jetbike seer council list for you @ 1850pts and above???

Any takers post list and any comments below!

All help/ comments appreciated

Ibushi

2 Jetbike councils. Fortune/Doom.

Anything else.

Yes, really.

When you spend a grand, everything else is subordinated to that fact.

oh jesus stelek.

have you ever actually put that on the table? stories?

somthing like this:

Farseer: Fortune, Doom, Stones, RoWard, bike
10 Warlocks: 2xEmbolden, 2xEnhance, 2xDestructor, bikes

Farseer: Fortune, Doom, Stones, bike
10 Warlocks: 2xEmbolden, 2xEnhance, 2xDestructor, bikes

5 DAs

5 DAs

Falcon: SC,HF,SS,VE

Falcon: SC,HF,SS,VE

1850. eugh.

i don't think i could bring myself to play that

Well, a Jetbike Council is a different story.
The enemy will shoot it at all cost, from the first round on it will be on the board.
This draws away fire from your other units.
So you need a large unit.
Moreover, when this unit is in cc it is a bit better (+1T) than the Council on foot.
But it costs a lot of points.
A Serpent is cheaper and faster (with star engines).

Used a JetSeer and two Jetlocks in a tournament back in 2006. With Fortune, the little buggers took 80 shots of Necron fire (and a few other things) before finally being reduced to a Warlock, and dashing off the board due to a failed LD test. Full squads of them... my god. Nuff said.

Heres my 2000 (8 short actually) list and it works ok, take abit of practice

HQ
Autarch 140
• Jetbike
• Mandiblasters
• Laser lance
• Fusion gun
Farseer 123
• Jetbike
• Singing spear
• Runes of witnessing
• Doom
5 Warlocks 285
• 5 jetbikes
• 5 singing spears
• 2 enhance
• 3 destructor
Elites 221
6 fire dragons
Wave serpant transport – twin-linked starcannon

Troops
8 Guardians Jetbike Squadron 196
• 2 shuriken cannons
8 Guardians Jetbike Squadron 196
• 2 shuriken cannons
9 Guardians Jetbike Squadron 228
• 3 shuriken cannons
9 Guardians Jetbike Squadron 228
• 3 shuriken cannons
Fast Attack
3 Vipers 180
• 3 scatter lasers
3 Vipers 195
• 3 Eldar Missile launchers

The problem with the seer council in general is that it doesn't do that much against targets with good armor (3+). Sure you wound on 2+ but you are 1 attack base. You also don't die so I guess you can tie things up for ever...and you cut though tanks like a hot knife through butter. It just doesn't sound like all that effective of a list to rely on.

Something you might try, take large squads and give them 1 enhance and give the rest of the warlock destructor. Zoom up on a unit and flame them to death. If you end up in hand to hand, so be it, but you should to crippling damage on the way in that way.

2 attacks base. 3 on the charge.

Hit on 3+, wound on 2+.

Sorry, who is better than this?

Stelek wrote:2 attacks base. 3 on the charge.

Hit on 3+, wound on 2+.

Sorry, who is better than this?

yeah that is fukin sick, the only thing to question is all the saves theyll get but fuk it, with all them attacks hittin on a 3+ and wounding on a 2+ even jesus christ himself would sh1t himself.

Morachi wrote:Used a JetSeer and two Jetlocks in a tournament back in 2006. With Fortune, the little buggers took 80 shots of Necron fire (and a few other things) before finally being reduced to a Warlock, and dashing off the board due to a failed LD test. Full squads of them... my god. Nuff said.

dude I love your icon.

Stelek wrote:2 attacks base. 3 on the charge.

Hit on 3+, wound on 2+.

Sorry, who is better than this?

Just looking at the warlocks and ignoring the farseer for a moment, an equal amount of points spent on banshees (vs warlocks on foot) gives you a little less than twice as many kills against MEQ's and more than double the kills against terminators. An equal amount of poits spent on striking scorpions also gives you more actual kills against T4 models regardless of what kind of armor save they have (although admitidly, the margine isn't that large there). If you are up against anything that's T3 though, the scorpions jump up quite a bit in killing power over the warlocks.

So, in short, who's better than this? Most of the other eldar hand to hand units. However, what the other hand to hand units lack that the warlocks have is 4+ I saves so they can live though huge piles of low ap / power weapon attacks. Although with the new shift in meta game away from those sorts of attacks, it makes me wonder if going with the 3+ save of the cheeper scorpions might not be a better plan. The other thing that banshees and scorpions lack is the tank killing power of the warlocks. So in some situations, they really are the way to go, but as is always the case with the eldar army, there are a lot of situations where another unit is better.

What the Banshees and Scorpions really lack are:

Guaranteed turn 2 assault.
T4.
3+/4+ save.
Effectiveness against higher toughness mobs.
Ability to jump out and tackle multiple units simultaneously across a broad frontage.

I've never looked back, since my Jetbike Council has never failed me the way the other troops have.

Better at dropping Marines, yes. Then they get shot, and they're dead.

Seer Council is about as invulnerable to shooting as it gets.

That counts for alot when you can't consolidate into new combats.

I like their lack of use against MEQ (especially ATSKNF) is mitigated by their use against vehicles.

Scorpions were better competition when they took Haywire grenades.

Also, it's true regarding consolidation.

Thing is if they get shot, they get shot. But they're not shooting anything else, either.

With your shooting comment, do you mean if the enemy is shooting say your Howling Banshees they aren't shooting anything else?

The Jetbike Council doesn't get owned by rapid firing bolters from a single unit, though.

Don't forget the Bikes have twin shuri-cats!

The jet bike unit is crazy good until it runs into a large block of plague marines. then they just sit there doing nothing to each other (bikes win in the long run for 2x the point cost)

Jet bikes do alot more damage to PM than they do to them.

Council hits on 3+, wound on 2+. PM save on 3+, 4+.

Marines hit on 4+, wound on 4+. Council save on 3+, 3+ (except against the PF, which is 4+/4+).

Then when the PM lose, they take fearless wounds and save those on a 3+/4+.

It's a grind, but the long run usually isn't that far off....and you only melee the PM once everything else is dead in the Chaos army.

There must be a fairly simple counter to that type of army, or you would see them alot more in tournaments. I mean it cant be people afraid of getting knocked for army composition, there are more than enough godzilla army's running around that counter that.

Do space marine librarian hoods totally screw up the whole synergy? Trying to think why it wouldnt win more tourneys if its such a spectacular unit like you say.

Orock, the truth is...people don't want to spend 1000 points and 400 bucks (give or take) on two units.

Just like the people who run a Hive Tyrant that flies around and think it's king willy instead of 2 Tyrant super lash units.

It's like all the guys who used to run 3 lascannons in 4E and win GT's with them. Made me sad to see that, really.

Is there a simple counter? Only one I've found so far is my Hammer of the Witches army, and my buddies huge PM and/or PB armies (where that's there is really).

Which of course, dies to most everything else...but it is technically a "counter".

Oh and Deceiver was a threat to this army. Sadly, he couldn't stop the Necrons from getting bumrushed to death before he could intervene, and there's no jetbike faster than a jetbike.

Phase out > Deceiver. Most armies couldn't get past him, but my Jetbike army could. It's worse in 5E though, where only Scarab Swarms can hold me up. If Deceiver can bounce in and out on a huge swarm fight, I probably still won't lose but I won't burn the swarms down in a turn either...add in a strong warrior countercharge (and the Swarms stopping the Warriors from being run down) and it's a little more tricky.

Like fighting an Ork horde. You can screw up and lose in a turn if you aren't careful. If you are careful though, it's an autowin.

...just when I thought I almost had my eldar army completed...

I find myself strangely drawn to this cheesy unit....cause F*ck them!

Rather then 2 Jetbike Sear Council, i think i'd use one and an Autarch on a jetbike with a Laser Lance, a Reaper Launcher and ether mandiblasters (A+1) or banshee mask (I10 First round)
... ok first turn you will not get to shoot the RL but turn 2 you will just before you charge (got to love 'Relentless' special rule) and since hes BS 6 that does mean a reroll (ok at BS 1) and then into combat with a strenth 6 power weapon (with 4/5 attacks) got to love that ... hang on he's got a pistal as well does that give him +1 attack on top?

@ Deadshane1: It is the Darth Vader of 40K.

@Tri: No LL is a two handed weapon so no bonus. Autarchs don't survive, T3 and a 3+ save means even tactical marines beat ya down. No re-rolls in CC is the problem...and after round 1, you...do like no wounds. lol

I wouldn't recommend an Autarch jumping on the Deceiver in assault. It's been a long time since I've played against the Deceiver, but he's not going down against the Autarch. Then, one failed save later and your Autarch is instakilled.

But, it is a lot of attacks with the Autarch: 3 base, 1 charge, 1 for second ccw (laser lance is not a 2 handed weapon), 1 for mandiblaster.

But, I'm also drawn into joining this Eldar bandwagon. I was looking at what bits I need to build a large unit.

Has anyone used this unit to also lay down multiple Destructor templates? The new template rules are just plain mean and this could be one very effective anti horde unit.

Yeah, I didn't really think so but one game against stjohn showed me the power of multiple destructor templates.

I think that's what made him flamer happy. lol

well the point of having Autarch wasn't to do jack past the charge he's there to cause 2 shooting 5-6 CC wounds ... his only job is to soften up a unit thats going to be charged so that Sear Council can just walk over whats left ... and he's no worse armoured then any one else 3+/4+ saves and unlike every one else he at lest has grenades (as you know your going to have to charge into cover after that scoring unit)

Flesh Hounds and Boon of Mutation. Collar of Khorne gives 2+ save vs. psychic attacks and force weapons like witch blades. Boon of Mutation is a toughness test that ignores all saves, so you have a 4+ chance of killing the farseer outright.

At 15 pts each, you will have 4x as many flesh hounds as bikers. While the bikers are tied up, the demon prince sits there next to the combat spawning warlocks or the farseer, since "the target may be in close combat" according to the rule. As it is not a psychic power, Runes of Warding have no effect.

@Tri:

Seer Council does not need help.

@ Durandal:

Neat.

If only Collar of Khorne worked versus Witch Blades. They aren't force weapons. So you die alot with the dogs standard 5+ save. Sorry. Then you die to Fearless wounds, and that's that.

Warlocks on bikes are 45 points. 3x.

So he hits on a 2+, then on a 5+ the Council loses a member. Not very good odds or use of a DP.

You do realize that Mech Eldar, backed by a Seer Council (let alone two) makes Chaos Demons cry, right? I can't imagine a worse match up for them.

How does one model these?

I'm thinking either brettonian/high elf/dark rider knight legs (whichever one has a better looking 'floaty robe' sort of cast), jetbikes, and hacksawed tops of warlocks/farseers.

...or is it better just to putty up the original eldar bikers?

Stelek. Got any good pics to show us?

To answer:

I spent alot of time and money making up Exodites. Now they're useless.

So I won't be making that huge amount of effort for the seer council.

I'd say a cloak and a sword on the jetbike body somewhere is good enough.

I mean if you really want to spend 30$ for each fig, go ahead. I've seen the combo you speak of, it doesn't really look right because soft flowing robes doesn't work for a jetbiker.

It's like my old Autarch conversion with a fusion gun, I spent alot of time and effort getting Fuegan to "sit" on a jetbike. Never again!