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A very easy and effective way to do it is to just use farseer and warlock heads, add swords, paint cool, and call done.

I ordered Dire Avenger Exarch arms (sword arm/spear arm). I have a lot of extra Guardian torsos left over and use them and the jetbike rider's legs. Put a dab of filler in the arm socket and the biker arm fits fine. I've got a lot of various Eldar heads in my bits box, so that area was easily covered.

For the Farseer, I use a Farseer head and an Autarch's sword arm. It uses the left arm vs. the right arms of the Avenger Exarch. Between the different helmet and different sword arm, it's pretty distinct looking.

Except for the Autarch sword arm and Farseer head (which comes seperate in the newer Farseers), everything is plastic and very easy to convert.

The Warstore still has Battlewagon Bitz and makes this task a bit easier.

Others may prefer their Warlocks to have robes, but I just have a hard time envisioning robed models on bikes.

Edit: Forgot to add, the Windrider box set was a good deal when it was available (IIRC, you can still get it at GW online).

Oops you are right, Sarigar.

I got the Windrider box set after the LVGT, when I redid my Eldar army so it was more competitive.

How disastrous is it when Fortune is stopped by a 'Hood'?

I imagine enemy psykers with 'hoods' are on the TOP of the "to kill" list for these units....?

Stelek, you are forgetting the psychic powers you added to the warlocks. Warlock + bike is 45, but their powers run 5-15 points. So depending on how many flamer templates you want, you are looking at 60 pts a model.

The whole point of Boon is to eliminate the farseer. Without the rerolls on the 4++, the unit becomes more susceptible to Breath of Chaos, Warpfire etc.

Deadshane1 wrote:How disastrous is it when Fortune is stopped by a 'Hood'?

I imagine enemy psykers with 'hoods' are on the TOP of the "to kill" list for these units....?

As usual, it's not a good thing. With 2 Farseers, you can usually fortune without a problem since Hood favors the caster.

I don't prioritize Hood units. Find what you can crush, and crush it. Every round the seer council is around is another round the other guy is losing.

Durandal wrote:Stelek, you are forgetting the psychic powers you added to the warlocks. Warlock + bike is 45, but their powers run 5-15 points. So depending on how many flamer templates you want, you are looking at 60 pts a model.

The whole point of Boon is to eliminate the farseer. Without the rerolls on the 4++, the unit becomes more susceptible to Breath of Chaos, Warpfire etc.

I don't add flamers to this unit. Others do, I don't.

I run Embolden and Enhance. That's it.

Good luck using Boon to kill a Farseer on a Jetbike. Don't know about you, but I wouldn't count on it as a reliable means of shutting down this army.

Don't forget the Farseer should be sporting the runes of warding or whatever. But are the jetbikes super important? Does this combo become not nearly as effective if you don't run the bikes?

Just a walking seer council, or rather, riding in a wave serpent?

Then it's nowhere near as good.

Well, the new edition is about holding or contesting objective.
A walking Council can achieve this, too. Its cheaper than the Jetbike Council and also rather fast (imagine a Serpent with star engines).

The Jetbikes can turbo boost though. I guess is the survivability that big of a difference between Jetbikes then without, to justify an extra ~20 pts a model?

With those extra points you could get alot of extra units, for example.

Jetbike council is T4, has a 3+ armor save (so DH don't laugh at you and kill you for free), and gives you the full 18" charge range.

The upgraded T and armor save really is what makes the unit shine.

I've taken everything an army has to give me via shooting on a Jetbike Council and lost 2-3 guys.

Against Tau and IG, they pretty much autowin the game right there....

I still prefer a Serpent delivered Seer Council.
Imagine that I keep all my units in reserve.
They appear in round two and the game is over after round five.
Then the footslogging Council will be tough enough to survive against anything I throw them at.

They really aren't tough enough on foot to survive anything if they are foot though.

T3 4+ save just isn't the same.

Stelek, I dismount a full Seer Council from a Serpent in front of an SM army in first turn and watch the opponent's face. Juicy target he thinks. But soon he realizes the unit is tough as nails, and I hold some counter-strike units back for support in the next turn.

I gotta agree with Stelek here. The increased T and 3+ instead of 4+ save is HUGE! That is well worth the point difference.

@wuestenfux:

You can never say to me "but marines couldn't" and use it as a valid argument. Sorry.

Hey fux: crunch some numbers on T3 vs. T4. You'll find that comes out to be an extremely important point.

I forgot about the 3+ save, that combined with the T4 is a no brainer. Too bad the modelling options are either

A) Complicated (Green Stuff)
B) Expensive + Complicated (Hacking apart warlocks)
C) Boring (Guardians + CC weapons, heads)

Please don't tell me something about number crunching. As a mathematician, I crunch numbers all day, lol.

I know the T+1 and AS+1 difference. But my argument is that if I play only 3 or 4 rounds because my army deploys in reserve and the game ends after 5 or 6 rounds, then the footslogging Seer Council is a viable alternative.

If you are putting your Seer Council in reserve, this may be where some of us will have a point of contention; if the Farseer starts the turn off the table, he can't cast Fortune. If you are allowed to cast Fortune where you game, then come in from Reserve, that is a huge difference than what I've seen in various U.S. tourneys. In 5th edition, I've not seen anything that changes the position to allow the Farseer to cast powers while off the table and no order of precedence regarding reserves and the Eldar powers cast at the beginning of the turn.

Not discounting the foot slogging Seer Council, but our game tactics will be a bit differently tailored I suspect. I would really like to see a 40K 5th ed rulebook FAQ that could give further details regarding the sequence of events in regards to: at the beginning of the turn.

Fortune has to be casted prior to movement. So it cannot be casted when the Farseer appears on the table coming from reserve. But sometimes it might be inevitable to put the army in reserve, say if play a Mech Eldar army vs a very shooty opponent, go 2nd and have no TLOS.

Stelek wrote:2 attacks base. 3 on the charge.

Hit on 3+, wound on 2+.

Sorry, who is better than this?

As an Eldar player myself I like the JetCouncil, but Cybork Nob Bikers with PKs are better. 4 PKs on the charge, hitting Warlocks on 3+, wounding all on 2+ and insta-killing and ignoring armor saves with more T than the JetCouncil and much better shooting. Plus they are going to get 4+ armor save with FNP against all your attacks and you aren't going to insta-kill them, just cause a wound.

PK Nobs don't hit Warlocks on 3+.

Instakill Warlocks, neat.

Difference between Nob Biker unit and Jetbike Council unit is cost. You can run 11 guys in each.

Nob Bikers cost alot more, and so that is your entire army.

Eldar can bring other units to the table, and focus on the Nob Bikers since there usually isn't much of anything else in an Ork army with Nob Bikers.

Cybork Nobs in trukks are better than Biker Nobs anyway.

Stelek wrote:PK Nobs don't hit Warlocks on 3+.
Instakill Warlocks, neat.
Difference between Nob Biker unit and Jetbike Council unit is cost. You can run 11 guys in each.
Nob Bikers cost alot more, and so that is your entire army.

You are correct, the Waaagh Banner and Enhance means they both go at WS5, so 4+.

But "cost alot [sic] more" isn't quite right.

JetCouncil with Doom, Fortune and 2X Enhance, 2X Embolden = 650
Nob Bikers with PK Boss, 2 PKs = 735

What is that? 85 points? 5 Fire Dragons or so. Hardly my whole army.

Besides, you didn't ask what is cheaper, but "who is better".

whitedragon wrote:Cybork Nobs in trukks are better than Biker Nobs anyway.

See above arguments re: in Wave Serpent vs. on Jetbikes.

=180 HQ gutsmek
20nob
+25bike
+1stikkbombz
+25powerclaw
+5kombie-weapon (some rokkets some skorchers)
+5'eavy armour
+5 cybork bodies
=86
x 10
=860
+30painboy
+15(6) waaagh! banners (i find no mention that the +1ws not stacking)
=120

grand total 1160p for 11 orks ... god i'd love to meet an army like this

realgenius wrote:

Stelek wrote:PK Nobs don't hit Warlocks on 3+.
Instakill Warlocks, neat.
Difference between Nob Biker unit and Jetbike Council unit is cost. You can run 11 guys in each.
Nob Bikers cost alot more, and so that is your entire army.

You are correct, the Waaagh Banner and Enhance means they both go at WS5, so 4+.

But "cost alot [sic] more" isn't quite right.

JetCouncil with Doom, Fortune and 2X Enhance, 2X Embolden = 650
Nob Bikers with PK Boss, 2 PKs = 735

What is that? 85 points? 5 Fire Dragons or so. Hardly my whole army.

Besides, you didn't ask what is cheaper, but "who is better".

2 PK Nobs = laughable.

Farseer + Jetbikes = 630-650.

Yes, you CAN run that crappy unit you talked about, and you'll lose games with it.

Or you can run the correct (heavily playtested) version, and it's a game winner.

If you are going to bring a Nobz Bike squad, you bring alot more PK than that.

You also want to maximize your wound potential, so it looks like this:

9 Nobz, painboy, warboss.

Nob with: Pk + Slugga; Bosspole
Nob with: Pk + Slugga; Waagh Banner
Nob with: Pk + Slugga; Ammo Runt
Nob with: Pk + Slugga
Nob with: Pk + Skorcha Combi; Ammo Runt
Nob with: Pk + Skorcha Combi
Nob with: Pk + Rokkit Combi; Ammo Runt
Nob with: Pk + Rokkit Combi
Nob with: Pk + TL Shoota
Painboy

Look ma, I take TWELVE wounds and I lose...NOBODY unless it's an instant kill.

Nobz + Warboss = 150 (Bike, Squig, PK) + 762. That's 912 points.

That's TWO Seer Councils worth of guys.

Not your whole army? Really? It isn't?

You go ahead and run the numbers on this unit versus your laughable 2 PK biker nob unit.

You can run two Nob Biker units if you really want to, but that's for really big games.

Seer Council? It fits into even smaller games.

You also seemed to misunderstand my point about what you can fit into what army.

ELDAR can run the Jetbike Council without a problem, and still have a viable army.

Orks, that IS the army.

Sure you could run just 1 unit of Ork Bikers, but why would you want to run such a powerful over the top unit (even if it's a little bit different so it's cheap enough to fit in 1750) and then run a bunch of Boyz?

Go big, or go home. 2xOrk Nobz bikers is a to deal with.

Especially since they are troops, and after they table all of your troops, they can sit on any objective (while zooming around for a 3+ save) and laugh at you.

Seer Council isn't quite as hard nuts as the Nob Bikers are, but they can zoom around and play 'fire the useless guns at each other until someone decides this turn is CC turn' game, and they can hold the Nobz bikers off. They have about the same effect on each other, after all. Hit on 4+, wound on 2+, save on 4+, re-roll save on 4+. Nobz have more overall attacks, and the Seer Council has a weak spot in the Farseer.

Name me another army the Nobz Bikers don't just smack around like they weren't even there. (I don't think you can.)

They ARE that badass.

Seer Council has to pick and choose, but they aren't the entire army.

Personally I've zipped my Jetbikes around for at least a turn (two if I can get away with it) and zapped the Nobs with Fire Prisms to try and get instant death kills.

Yes, the Nobs bikers can and will crush the tin cans of any army out there--but in my Eldar army that's only 345 points worth of stuff, and I can only pray I can get my charge off with both seer Councils into one Nob biker squad and cripple it before the other one hits me.

Very much a coin flip game. About the only two lists that either list has a reason to fear, really.

Ok, stjohn's immolator army will hurt them bad, but I don't know if it can win against that army. All those small squads just evaporate against the nobs huge number of attacks, so they can't hide in CC.

Your rebuttal?

Tri wrote:=180 HQ gutsmek
20nob
+25bike
+1stikkbombz
+25powerclaw
+5kombie-weapon (some rokkets some skorchers)
+5'eavy armour
+5 cybork bodies
=86
x 10
=860
+30painboy
+15(6) waaagh! banners (i find no mention that the +1ws not stacking)
=120

grand total 1160p for 11 orks ... god i'd love to meet an army like this

No you wouldn't. lol

No one runs Gutsmek and 2 biker nobz units, he isn't a warboss.

You can give Nobz bikers cybork body anyway.

Bikers come with heavy armor anyway.

Yeah, Waagh banners should not stack but they do...most people will probably punch you if you bring 6 and call them all Bloodthirsters WS.