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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

Did we discuss these already, and I just missed it?

Take a look at Mission #2. Go ahead, I'll wait. Did you see the version of kill points in effect? It's the old rumored version from early this year, rather than the current one.

And now take a look at mission #3. Capture and Control PLUS (strange) kill points, all on a Saturday night. Also, 2 Dawn of War deployments.


Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

Oi. Looks like my list is getting a tweak, if these are right.

Can anyone confirm that these are correct and official? Last year the scenarios were supposed to be secret until the day.

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Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Wow... those are interesting. While the qualifier I'm at is probably going to be pretty small, I can imagine some folks gaming these missions pretty bad. For starters, every guy that has 180 Ork Boys is laughing pretty hard right now. Likewise anybody with 6 squads of plague marines in rhinos. Heck, even Lesser demons are useful with these missions. Blood Angels will have a good day.

It is going to take some killer lists having a good day to max points in this tourny.
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Mannahnin wrote:Oi. Looks like my list is getting a tweak, if these are right.

Can anyone confirm that these are correct and official? Last year the scenarios were supposed to be secret until the day.


I thought they were going to release them a week in advance, simply because they got leaked last year anyway. They have to mail them to stores, and somebody is going to tip off a friend. Releasing them a week early levels the playing field, as it's hard to practice too much with these missions and/or new lists.
   
Made in us
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge





Besides my aversion to Kill Points in general, I like these mission layouts.

I would also like to petiiton that more 40k scenarios involve jelly donut factories. The Emperor only eats a thousand psykers a day because the nearest Dunkin is all the way over in Obscuras, and when you're fiendin that's a rough drive.

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Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





The House that Peterbilt

So if I am reading this right, an IC and a retinue are worth 6 kill points at ard boys?

snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."

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Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

winterman wrote:So if I am reading this right, an IC and a retinue are worth 6 kill points at ard boys?


Yes they are. This is GW's way of saying: Leave your IG at home!
   
Made in us
Foul Dwimmerlaik






Minneapolis, MN

Battle Point Modifiers
+1 if you destroyed all of your opponen’ts Heavy
Support choices.
+1 if you have destroyed all of your opponent’s Fast
Attack Choices.
+1 if you destroyed all of your opponent’s
HQ choices.
+1 if you destroyed all of your opponent’s
Troop choices.

Note: If your opponent does not have any units of a
particular type (i.e. they have no Fast Attack choices)
then you automatically receive the battle point
modifier for destroying them.


What?

Lame.

Playing DW is going to hurt with that kind if fubar.

The third mission is much more fair with:

Battle Point Modifiers
+1 if you ever controlled both objectives.
+1 if your opponent controls no objectives.
+1 if you destroyed all of your opponent’s
HQ choices.
+1 if you destroyed all of your opponent’s
Troop choices.
Note: If your opponent does not have any units of a
particular type (IE they have no Fast Attack choices)
then you automatically receive the battle point
modifier for destroying them.


Though the note on the end is rather misleading since there is no provision for HS or FA slots like the second mission.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/09/09 17:38:49


   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





NC

Hearing about these missions makes me think my list may not be the best Idea. Double kill points for elites, fast attack and heavy support is not good for necrons.

Falcon Punch!


 
   
Made in us
Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne






Dedicated Transports worth ZERO kps??!??!?!

Veriamp wrote:I have emerged from my lurking to say one thing. When Mat taught the Necrons to feel, he taught me to love.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

Huh. I take it, then, that we haven't gone through the missions yet?

Mannahnin wrote:Oi. Looks like my list is getting a tweak, if these are right.

Can anyone confirm that these are correct and official? Last year the scenarios were supposed to be secret until the day.


The WHFB 'Ard Boyz scenarios came out a number of days early, for both the initial and semi-final rounds. I think Polonius has the right of it - they want a level field.

winterman wrote:So if I am reading this right, an IC and a retinue are worth 6 kill points at ard boys?

Yup. Go ahead - bring 2 ICs w/retinue, I dare you.

Hellfury wrote:
Battle Point Modifiers
+1 if you destroyed all of your opponen’ts Heavy
Support choices.
+1 if you have destroyed all of your opponent’s Fast
Attack Choices.
+1 if you destroyed all of your opponent’s
HQ choices.
+1 if you destroyed all of your opponent’s
Troop choices.

Note: If your opponent does not have any units of a
particular type (i.e. they have no Fast Attack choices)
then you automatically receive the battle point
modifier for destroying them.

What?

Lame.

Playing DW is going to hurt with that kind if fubar.


Not really. These are points your OPPONENT can get, not that you (the DW player) LOSES. Yes, you can clobber your opponent, and he might still get a couple "free" battle points - irrelevant, as his total does not affect yours.

whitedragon wrote:Dedicated Transports worth ZERO kps??!??!?!

And my Mech IG just breathed a HUGE sigh of relief.

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





Well, I suppose I shouldn't have gone for a list that is almost a full FOC - currently it could give up 27 KPs. Maybe I should just run the 6x30 ork mobs instead of trying to have a fun time.
   
Made in us
Foul Dwimmerlaik






Minneapolis, MN

budro wrote:Well, I suppose I shouldn't have gone for a list that is almost a full FOC - currently it could give up 27 KPs. Maybe I should just run the 6x30 ork mobs instead of trying to have a fun time.


What is this 'fun time' you speak of? Can you eat it?

   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Yeah, the zero KPs for dedicated transports makes me a little happier I'm running mech eldar. I dropped the jetbike council because it was too small as it was, so now I've got six waveserpents that don't give up VPs. The real question is how many DA squads I take. I only need troops in one mission, and in the other two I'd rather have a few squads of Banshees.

The real sick list? Black templars with Crusader spam. I'm also thinking about the mega Nob Biker mob as being brutally powerful.
   
Made in us
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought





SC, USA

So how are you getting that IG IC + Retinue are worth 6 KP? I can see why with BA, b/c it specifically says that the honor guard is a seperate slot HQ choice that does not count on FOC, but the IG retinue comes with the officer. They don't have anything in their listing that I am aware of that makes the retinue a seperate FOC choice. Unless I am missing something, in which case I am waiting to be re-educated.
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard




New York

Wow, so basically the army who has access to the best Troop type units has an enormous edge in all three missions. I thought part of the reasoning for having KPs was supposedly to balance out lists that load up on Troops but these scenarios overwhelmingly and unanimously favor them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/09/09 18:44:44


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

grizgrin wrote:So how are you getting that IG IC + Retinue are worth 6 KP? I can see why with BA, b/c it specifically says that the honor guard is a seperate slot HQ choice that does not count on FOC, but the IG retinue comes with the officer. They don't have anything in their listing that I am aware of that makes the retinue a seperate FOC choice. Unless I am missing something, in which case I am waiting to be re-educated.


The definition of a retinue from the book (loosely) is that it's a unit that the independent character can't leave, while it's alive. Which is an exact description of the IG's command squad structure - you have an officer with some buddies he can't walk away from, but once they're dead, he's an IC again.

Behold the power of unintended consequences!

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

grizgrin wrote:So how are you getting that IG IC + Retinue are worth 6 KP? I can see why with BA, b/c it specifically says that the honor guard is a seperate slot HQ choice that does not count on FOC, but the IG retinue comes with the officer. They don't have anything in their listing that I am aware of that makes the retinue a seperate FOC choice. Unless I am missing something, in which case I am waiting to be re-educated.


It's the wording of KPs: every unit counts as a separate KP, but each IC counts as a unit in and of itself. It's just a quirk in the rules. It's really no different than any unit that comes "bundled" with another. For example, Tau pathfinders come with a devilfish, which comes with gun drones. It's just the way it works in fifth.
   
Made in us
Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne






Polonius wrote:Yeah, the zero KPs for dedicated transports makes me a little happier I'm running mech eldar. I dropped the jetbike council because it was too small as it was, so now I've got six waveserpents that don't give up VPs. The real question is how many DA squads I take. I only need troops in one mission, and in the other two I'd rather have a few squads of Banshees.

The real sick list? Black templars with Crusader spam. I'm also thinking about the mega Nob Biker mob as being brutally powerful.


The nobs are extremely vulnerable to tank shock spam, since their LD sucks. Chaos Terminators suffer this same problem. I have a miniature heart attack every time I'm forced to take a LD test with either unit.

Veriamp wrote:I have emerged from my lurking to say one thing. When Mat taught the Necrons to feel, he taught me to love.

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Made in us
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





Hellfury wrote:
budro wrote:Well, I suppose I shouldn't have gone for a list that is almost a full FOC - currently it could give up 27 KPs. Maybe I should just run the 6x30 ork mobs instead of trying to have a fun time.


What is this 'fun time' you speak of? Can you eat it?


Well, there is a fun time that you can "eat" but it doesn't have anything to do with table-top gaming. I like to run a variety of units instead of spamming one thing over and over. hence with variable KPs, it's a penalty that I have to take into account when gaming. I think min-max "gaming" is boring as hell. Might as well just play checkers were everything is the same except for a few uber pieces.
   
Made in us
Drone without a Controller





Well, I agree that you may not want to take 180 orks for troops and just max out your other units to make as few KPs as possible, but the way of maxing your Force Org is just last edition's min-maxing, while this edition's min-maxing is full troops and as few of everything else.
   
Made in us
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot





585NY

ya but if you min on choices here makes it even easier for more points...
taking out someones only fast attack unit/etc. = 2 points so...

max-maxing ftw?


either way...glad its not random scenarios from the book...

 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





London (work) / Pompey (live, from time to time)

i like it all apart from the force org part.
if i dislike an armies fast attack choices then he / she gains a point.

with armies like marine and tyranid this isnt a problem, but for necron players this isnt good news.

Suffused with the dying memories of Sanguinus, the warriors of the Death Company seek only one thing: death in battle fighting against the enemies of the Emperor.  
   
Made in us
Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne






min sized scarab swarm solves that problem.

Veriamp wrote:I have emerged from my lurking to say one thing. When Mat taught the Necrons to feel, he taught me to love.

Whitedragon Paints! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/613745.page 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





London (work) / Pompey (live, from time to time)

never thought of that, keep a min unit hidden and out of the way to retain the +1 point, i like it.

tyrand have less problems, as things like raveners, gargoyles and winged warriors and pretty efective.

Suffused with the dying memories of Sanguinus, the warriors of the Death Company seek only one thing: death in battle fighting against the enemies of the Emperor.  
   
Made in us
Ruthless Rafkin






Glen Burnie, MD

Yeah, I looked at my probable IG list, and it was 46 KP. Stupid, stupid, stupid... Yeah, they're staying home.

The +1 for not having HS/FA, etc. I'm not worried about. It sucks, but if you kill everything, who cares?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/09/09 21:51:46




-Loki- wrote:
40k is about slamming two slegdehammers together and hoping the other breaks first. Malifaux is about fighting with scalpels trying to hit select areas and hoping you connect more. 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





London (work) / Pompey (live, from time to time)

i guess so, actually looking forward to fighting guard now, even if i dont wipe them out should win on KP

Suffused with the dying memories of Sanguinus, the warriors of the Death Company seek only one thing: death in battle fighting against the enemies of the Emperor.  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

JD21290 wrote:i like it all apart from the force org part.
if i dislike an armies fast attack choices then he / she gains a point.

with armies like marine and tyranid this isnt a problem, but for necron players this isnt good news.


You're missing the point. Whether or not your opponent gets the +1 for killing your FA choices DOESN'T MATTER. Whether they get the bonus points or not has ZERO impact on your battle points. If you beat them, they're not competing with you for the finish; let them have the points, if your army is stronger for leaving FA choices out.

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Somewhere in the confinds of central Jersey

I'm sad my nids have a wopping 27+ whatever W/out # kill points available while as far as I know the average for everyone else is either 24, 26, 28.

I guess that just means I have to be smart about it...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2008/09/09 22:06:39


 
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Oniwaban






Looks like a single Vyper may be in my future. Lame. I hate having to game extended rules like this, but it is 'Ard Boyz in the first place so whatever. Maybe a little cheddar will have to go in with the Stilton.

I do wonder if they're releasing these to have one over on everyone, though... or if they even came from GW. Anyone got vague confirmations on reliability of source (no names/real info, of course)?

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