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skkipper wrote:Ok what about choices that don't take up FOC slots greater demons demons and spawn. do they give up kill points?

Completely OT and I apologize but I can't take it anymore. What in the fark is that thing in your avatar? I have nightmares that need answers and names.

At least two different reps are telling their stores completely different things. I saw an email which stated that it was to be done by squad in the same way as it normally is, and above it looks like Mikhaila is being told it is done by FOC choice. While I don't care either way as I'm not attending an event, it being done by FOC choice leaves it open for a lot of abuse, and not just by guard armies. Picture this, Space Marine Commander, his command squad and an attached Librarian and Chaplain. Command Squad all dies, and you're left with 3 ICs. All three are subsequently killed. That's only worth 3 Kill Points? Seems wrong.

I guess I was right all along in thinking that there would be discrepancy involved per venue, even when they are all supposed to be run in the same way. Not even GW employees are giving the same answers.

it is the monkeypig. born as a pig looks like a monkey. or sparky's baby picture. take your pick.

skkipper wrote:it is the monkeypig. born as a pig looks like a monkey. or sparky's baby picture. take your pick.

That led to a rather ill-fated Google search ...thanks for the info (I think).

/Sorry for the OT

Lesson for the day: make sure you find out how it works from your tournament organizer...

yeah I know how my game store is running it so i am safe. it sucks to be for example in toledo and playing in events in michigan or ohio or indiana so members of your group can go to different semifinals. you could be in for a surprise

Hey Mike this is another contradiction.. can you please see about this with your contact and get something posted officially. this will decide which army i take to the event.

Jesse
Posts: 63


Crewman
And thats when I tried to buy the horse a hooker


Karma: +3/-1




Re: 'Ard Boys Scenarios are up!
« Reply #16 on: Today at 11:13:06 PM » Quote

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Another post from the local forums contradicting the previous GW employee statement (posted immediately following another person quoting the same posting as odisspear45). I'm guessing that unless some official email is sent to organizers that it will be left to their individual judgement as to how the scenario scoring will be interpreted, which Mr. Smith's quote suggests.

http://www.40kfightclub.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=16998&start=30 (extra spaces removed to save screen in the quote below)


Quote
Quote:
For example: The rules for combat squads state that once they split into a combat squad, they count as 2 separate scoring units, thus they each are worth a kill point.

The same is true for the Imperial Guard question. Each squad is worth a kill point even though they are part of the platoon.

Lesser Daemons are considered Troop choices so they count as troops in terms kill points. The Greater Daemons count as HQ as stated in the codex.

If a vehicle is taken as a ?dedicated transport? then it has no kill points regardless of whether or not it was considered something else before becoming a transport.

A far as retinue?s go, it is going to have to be codex specific. In some cases the retinue and the HQ are counted as one HQ choice, for example Space Marines would mostly work this way, however, if a Marine Commander has a retinue they would count as one HQ choice in terms of kill points. However, in a command squad which contains a Commander, a Chaplin and a Librarian, if the command squad is killed and the characters live and become independent characters again, they would then count as individual HQ units in terms of kill points. I know it is a bit confusing. In some cases the retinue and command squads could count as a separate HQ choice in terms of kill points and this would be true for Eldar in the example of a Warlock squad which does not have to be attached to an HQ choice. Again, it is confusion and I recommend you make calls based on each individual codex.

At the end of the day ?Ard Boys is supposed to be a fun and wacky tournament, not a serious GT, ultimately it is up to you to make the calls as you see fit in your shop. The Scenarios and scoring were written to be as simple as possible. Perhaps that is where the confusion is coming from.

If you feel that I have not answered these questions adequately or feel you need further clarity on another question, please let me know and I will help you further.

I apologize if you receive this and you are not running ?Ard Boys, however, I felt you might want the info just in case you have customer who are competing in the event and have questions.

Thank You,

John Smith
Games Workshop
Trade Account Manager

Valhallan42nd wrote:Feel free to complain loudly. Two scenarios based on Kill points, and each HQ = 3 kill points. So all those HQ bonus choices IG get bends us over a barrel.

They should have kept Squats and got rid of IG. You people are like a cancer. Super Mutants, Daemons, Space Elves, Nasty Bugs, Orks, Death Robots and you want to play with army men. There are alot of games where you can use army men, but few where you have a choice of something really cool. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

wyomingfox wrote:I don't think the necron washing machine is going to be as strikingly powerful in a Ard Boyz tournement given the time consuming nature of 2500 pt armies. Let me expound, in the last Ard Boyz tournement the average # of turns was 4.

That means the don't know how to play or at least how to speed up their opponent. The time it takes to play starts out small at 500 points and quickly levels off at 1750. Adding another 44ish% in points should add as much time.

whitedragon wrote:Wouldn't it be weird if we played a tourney based straight out of the standard missions in the book?

Yo the ArD BoYZ is WiLd SOn! DoNt forgET, tImE to repreSenNTT

Oh great, Guard players can't show their face now without getting abuse hurled at their faces.

"That means the don't know how to play or at least how to speed up their opponent. The time it takes to play starts out small at 500 points and quickly levels off at 1750. Adding another 44ish% in points should add as much time."

I am assuming you have played several games at 2500 each against savvy opponents you couldn't table. And as long as the opponent isn't diliberately stalling you can't just hurry him along.

Anyways, it is a non-issue, I was thinking DoW was like escalation. I was wrong . Monoliths can arrive 1st turn on thier board edge.

Post deleted

OK got off the phone with Misty Mountains in Madison, WI and the owner said that he recieved a FAC from Games Workshop, I asked him to email it to me and this is what I recieved:

‘Ard Boyz Tournament Clarifications

Here’s some extra clarification about the missions and scoring for this years ‘Ardboyz 40k event.

General:
• Table size is standard 4’x6’
• Ardboyz doesn’t mean throw out the rulebook. You don’t use Apocalypse rules, and can’t use superheavies. You still need to use the FOC (and just 1 FOC!), and need to make a legal army.
• Game length is standard, as per the 5th edition rulebook. Roll at the end of turn 5 and 6 to end the game, as described in the rulebook on page 90.
• ‘Ardboyz is an open list tournament. Meaning that you should bring 4 copies of your list, and hand one over to each opponent if he wants one. Your opponent and you are both allowed to review each others’ lists, and ask questions, both before and during the game.
• Only one army list may be used during the tournament. Players may not adjust lists between games.

Scenarios:
• For Battle Point Modifiers in Scenario 1, replace ‘highest scoring unit’ with ‘unit with the highest points cost’.
• In scenario 1, ‘Reserves’ should be added to the special rules. (Can’t outflank or deepstrike if you can’t leave anything in reserve. )
• Don’t forget that missions 2 and 3 used ‘Dawn of War deployment’, and includes night fighting for turn 1.
• Under deployment in missions 2 and 3, the Note about deploying all troops and HQ choices does not mean you must deploy all your troops and HQ. You may still leave troops and HQ in reserve, as long as you still have at least 1 HQ and 2 troops choices on the table. You may leave units in reserve if you can legally do so. You may also leave them off the table, and not in reserve, to move on in turn 1 with the rest of your army, as per the scenario rules.

.

Killpoints:

KP for ‘Ardboyz are done differently than in the 5th edition rulebook. Instead of assigning KP by squad, they are assigned to each choice off the Force Organization Chart (FOC). If a choice on the FOC includes several parts, then KP are not earned until all parts of the choice are destroyed.

Example 1: An IG troop platoon of 1 Jr. command squad and two 10 man troop squads will earn a player 1 KP when all 3 squads are destroyed.

Example 2: A Space Marine Captain and his command squad will earn a player 3 KP when both the Captain and the command squad are dead.
Example 3: Three lictors taken as an elite choice will earn a player 2 KP when all 3 are dead.

Example 4: A space marine squad of 10 marines splits into two 5 man squads before deployment. Both 5 man squads need to be destroyed to earn the 1 KP they give up as a troops choice.

Example 5: A vehicle squadron of 3 sentinels taken as a fast attack choice is 2 kp when all 3 sentinels are destroyed.

Kill points per FOC choice:
HQ 3 Pts
Troops 1 Pt
Elite 2 Pts
Fast Attack 2 Pts
Heavy Support 2 Pts

• Dedicated transports do not provide Kill Points. They also do not have to be destroyed to earn the KP for the unit they transport. If the unit is destroyed, the KP are earned, regardless of the fate of the dedicated transport.
• Units that do not take up a spot on the FOC, such as Lesser Daemons and Chaos Spawn still count for KP. Check the relevant codex for how they are classified. In Codex:CSM Lesser Daemons are troops, Greater Daemons are HQ, and Spawn are fast attack.
• Some units can be used to create/spawn other models. Good examples are Biovores and Tomb Spiders. In these cases, ignore the created models as far as KP are concerned. Killing the swarm or sporemine is 0 KP. Killing the Biovore or Tomb Spider earns the player the KP regardless of what happens to the swarm/sporemine.
• Models with the ‘Advisor’ rule do not count for KP themselves. Consider them a squad upgrade for their assigned squads. If Commisars are taken under the IC doctrine, they count as an elite choice, and when all Commisars have been killed, count as 2 KP.
• Some units can be taken as different choices on the FOC. In this case, the players army list should reflect how they have been taken, and what they count as.

• Example 6: An Ork player takes an Ork Warboss as his HQ. This allows him to then take a unit or Ork nobz as either an elite or troops choice. If he takes them as an elite, they give up 2KP. If taken as a troops choice, they give up 1KP. In either case the nobz could take a dedicated transport of a battlewagon, which wouldn’t count for KP at all. .

On the whole, the scenarios would be pretty good, but they should have just left it as with the last tourny and kept them secret for the big day.

!#@$ Kill points.
They should just leave it at straight up scenarios.
2000 pts is a jerk off fest as far as a tournament army. How many games do you think you can get in on the time limits given. Half of the time will be spent !@%#$ up about the new rules, the other will be spent jerking around with Kill points.

Think I might just sit this one out and watch the FOTM builds sweep people that are dumb enough to play with balance in thier army.

Harkening back to the days of 2d edition with this new BS involved. Why not just add Overwatch and complete the numbing of standing across from each other for the game, then BOTH sides can tie.
What they really need is to add a little more fine print to an already gimped tourny.

Bang up job GW for yet another missed point!

Grot 6 wrote:On the whole, the scenarios would be pretty good, but they should have just left it as with the last tourny and kept them secret for the big day.

2000 pts is a jerk off fest as far as a tournament army.

2 things:
1) The scenarios weren't kept secret; a fair chunk of the internet community had them before the day, while people less likely to luk on forums did not. They learned from this, and both the WHFB 'Ard Boyz missions and these were posted early, to try and level the field a bit. Kudos to GW for doing that much; better would be to have the missions available when sign-up opens, and at the stores.

2) It's 2500 pts. Don't show up with a 2000 pt army.

Grot 6 wrote:On the whole, the scenarios would be pretty good, but they should have just left it as with the last tourny and kept them secret for the big day.

!#@$ Kill points.
They should just leave it at straight up scenarios.
2000 pts is a jerk off fest as far as a tournament army. How many games do you think you can get in on the time limits given. Half of the time will be spent !@%#$ up about the new rules, the other will be spent jerking around with Kill points.

Think I might just sit this one out and watch the FOTM builds sweep people that are dumb enough to play with balance in thier army.

Harkening back to the days of 2d edition with this new BS involved. Why not just add Overwatch and complete the numbing of standing across from each other for the game, then BOTH sides can tie.
What they really need is to add a little more fine print to an already gimped tourny.

Bang up job GW for yet another missed point!

Most of the games at 3000 points (pre Apocalypse) that I have played lasted under 2 hrs when playing an experienced player. The whole point of this tournament is to find the best player so you should be playing mostly experienced players. Time should not be an issue in my opinion.

The whole point of this tournament is to find the best player so you should be playing mostly experienced players.

Ha hahaha that is funny...maybe in the semi-finals