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I am getting tired of seeing this unit and their just tearing through people on the table.

I play Eldar and Space Marines. I asked for help for my Eldar, but I have shelved them until I get a good grip on my 5th Edition Space Marines. Some of the suggestions for the Eldar actually did some damage. The Fire Dragons caught them slipping after they won a combat and could not hide. Yeah....... Tactics combined with the melta guns worked. Might not work again with the same guy. I fed him a unit of jet bikes and he took the bait.


Anyone, now to the Space Marines and how do they actually stop and destroy the rampaging Warboss (bike, power klaw, attack squig, cyborg), riding with Pain boy (grot orderly) and 5 Nobs (2 power klaws, bosspole, 3 big choppas)


How about my own version of the War Biker Stoppers
1.Captain (Bike, Relic Blade, Powerfist, Storm Shield) with a command biker squad
2.Apothecary (bolt pistol and chain sword)
3. x2 Powerfist with melta guns and stormshield
4. Powersword with plasma pistols
5. Company Champion

I figure this would be mutual suicide between the two, with the one who did the charging actually coming out better to a small degree. The Marine Biker Squad could handle this number of Nob Bikers with War boss but probaly no more, especially if they get the charge and shoot the melta guns and plasma pistols before assaulting.

What else could I invite for my Space Marine List to take down this super and I am sure to see this unit very often unit? What success has anyone else used? What say you?

The're still only T4(5). Assault termies with Thunder hammers please.

Take a unit of Tactical Space Marines with a Teleport Homer and spread them out in a long skirmish line, to encourage the Nobz to charge them, and add a Librarian with Force Dome and Avenger.

Now, when the Nobz crash into them, they'll beat them up, but the Force Dome should help maintain some survivors, who will book it using Combat Tactics.

In the next turn, a unit or two of Terminators comes down on the Nobz using the Teleport Homer and cooks them with their Heavy Flamethrowers. If the Tactical Squad managed to rally, use their Flamethrower and the Librarian's Avenger power.

The trick here is to use Heavy Flamethrowers to both deny saves, and inflict large numbers of hits, to promote a large number of failed Cybork Invulnerable saves and Feel No Pain checks.

I suppose you could also do this with Scouts and Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods, but I think it would be harder to sucker the Orks into position.

Line up tactical marines in front of 3x or 6x Ironclad Dreadnoughts. If you don't like Ironclads, Assault Terminators in Crusaders. Smash them in the assault.

Shooting is not going to be your best option for countering them strongly.

Vindicator/Demolisher.

Tactica: Beating Nob Bikers
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/222854.page

Moz wrote:Tactica: Beating Nob Bikers
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/222854.page

Muchas gracias. I do not care what they say about you, You are okay.

Nurglitch wrote:Take a unit of Tactical Space Marines with a Teleport Homer and spread them out in a long skirmish line, to encourage the Nobz to charge them, and add a Librarian with Force Dome and Avenger.

Now, when the Nobz crash into them, they'll beat them up, but the Force Dome should help maintain some survivors, who will book it using Combat Tactics.

In the next turn, a unit or two of Terminators comes down on the Nobz using the Teleport Homer and cooks them with their Heavy Flamethrowers. If the Tactical Squad managed to rally, use their Flamethrower and the Librarian's Avenger power.

The trick here is to use Heavy Flamethrowers to both deny saves, and inflict large numbers of hits, to promote a large number of failed Cybork Invulnerable saves and Feel No Pain checks.

I suppose you could also do this with Scouts and Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods, but I think it would be harder to sucker the Orks into position.

Thats pretty bad advice, a single Nob biker unit might be "annoyed" at a couple of heavy flamers and some bolter fire, but the worst Nob biker armies out there are going to have TWO units, two warbosses and around 16-18 Nob bikers having a total of 8-10 power claws. If you've got all these marines on foot on the board, the next turn you'll lose your entire army to a multi-charge with an escort off of the board.

Basically, this advice is garbage against any Nob Biker that knows what he's doing.

sourclams wrote:Line up tactical marines in front of 3x or 6x Ironclad Dreadnoughts. If you don't like Ironclads, Assault Terminators in Crusaders. Smash them in the assault.

Shooting is not going to be your best option for countering them strongly.

a marine squad or two as bait seems to be almost a foregone conclusion here. As long as you resign those 1 or two squads to DEATH and accept it, thats ok I guess, they wont be surviving the assault of even 1 unit of nob bikers, not in any numbers to matter.

Godzilla Marine is an interesting proposal, as far as the LR with Terminators, I figured THIS as a good attack just last night...

-with optimal conditions this will kill off a biker unit with great efficiency- (its all eggs in one basket though)

LR Redeemer
Librarian with Null Zone- power armour (epistolary if you're going to want to charge with him)
Chaplain-power armour, digital lasers
5xLightning Claw terminators or 5xTHammer Terminators (t-Hammers will kill all Nobs but have larger reprisal)

Wait until Nobs enter within range of your assault (20" from Raider or less, but preferably within distance to flame twice. You'll prolly need sacrificial marines for that one) Hit them with Librarians "Null Zone" power to hinder their invulnerable saves. Roll up LR and flame away ignoring cover, armour, and basically ignoring their invulnerable. (I think you still get FNP against ap3 though, cannot remember and I'm at work) Also disgorge terminators and chaplain. Librarian has a force weapon so get him out too if you dare, he could get lucky and gak a Nob. Terminators charge with 20 LC attacks (Needing luck but could be absolutly devestating depending on flamer damage) with RR's to hit (chaplain) and RR's to wound (Claws). If you did it right ("right" means with a little luck and good maneuvering), the warboss will be the only one attacking back and lose combat after killing only a couple of terminators.

Now, of course you're standing out in the middle of the board waiting to be charged by the other Warboss and Nobs, but you've taken no real casualties so maybe you can dish out a little pain. Your battle plan also hopefully didnt require the sacrifice of many marine lives to accomplish it so the remaining biker nob unit will be facing off against a whole army behind the terminators they mean to kill next. If they were busy elsewhere, simply reboard your LR, rinse, and Repeat....oh, after making sure the LR moves within 6" of the warboss to prevent a rally and hopefully escort his butt off of the table.

Of course no battle plan survives contact with the enemy, but this might be a good place to start if your marines are frustrated with BikerNobs.

There's also your own BikerMarineNobs: (compliments of Stelek)

Khan on bike
Chaplain on bike with Digits
Command Squad w/
Apothacary
4xVet with 2xLC AND stormsheild.
Standard

Twin lightningclaw are used against hordes....
1xlightningclaw and Stormsheild used against Bikernobs....

Furious Assault
Outflank
Hit and run
RR's to hit
RR's to wound
Possible instant death Compliments of the Khan

If you're going to do the Raider Rush, why not go all out? I really don't like the Land Raider Redeemer in this scenario because nobs still get Cybork and FNP and can allocate wounds to multiple model types without much fear. Crusaders have the extra payload which makes them attractive.

HQ:
Vulkan
190

Elites:
7 Assault Terminators x2
8 Assault Terminators x1

Heavy:
Land Raider Crusader x3

Troops
5 Tactical Marines x2

In retrospect, I do like this more than my Ironclad list. Crusaders can keep moving 12" so that Nob Bikers only hit on 6s which makes them nigh unkillable before they disgorge their cargo.

1st turn: move 12" and laugh

2nd turn: move 12" and laugh

3rd turn: move 6" and win.

I was suprised by how easy my Dark Eldar where able to handle this, just zap one or 2 nobs with darklances or blasters and then hit them with horrofexs til they are pinned.

sourclams wrote:If you're going to do the Raider Rush, why not go all out? I really don't like the Land Raider Redeemer in this scenario because nobs still get Cybork and FNP and can allocate wounds to multiple model types without much fear. Crusaders have the extra payload which makes them attractive.

HQ:
Vulkan
190

Elites:
7 Assault Terminators x2
8 Assault Terminators x1

Heavy:
Land Raider Crusader x3

Troops
5 Tactical Marines x2

In retrospect, I do like this more than my Ironclad list. Crusaders can keep moving 12" so that Nob Bikers only hit on 6s which makes them nigh unkillable before they disgorge their cargo.

1st turn: move 12" and laugh

2nd turn: move 12" and laugh

3rd turn: move 6" and win.

If you're going to use Land Raider Crusaders and Assault termies, why not use Black Templars and bring the Emperor's Champion for Preferred enemy? You lose mastercrafted thunder hammers and 3+ stormshields, but you get rerolling thunderhammers, a chance to reroll some LC's, and you're fearless in CC, which helps out your normal marine squads.

My advice lines up with what others are advocating.

Vindicators and Assault Terminators are your best bet. Make sure he has to come through difficult terrain to get to you.

Flamers are great weapons, but won't work against Nob Bikers. Not even the heavy variety. In fact, I think they are the worst option since the make you think you can kill the Nobs, when in fact you're just killing yourself.

Off Topic: Who in Houston is running Nob Bikers? I haven't been able to find a person playing them yet, all my games have been with proxies.

GK Termies

I know this was mentioned in the link moz refrenced. Although it was suggested to use the incenirators i too agree they would be smashed aside.

But a 5 man squad with 3 psycannons and another squad with 2 psycannons would be able to whittle down a nob bike squad before it had a chance to charge.

Str 6 at BS 4 + no armor sv and no inv save = dead nob bike squad.

Ummm, nob bikers have a 3+ cover when 'boosting or a 4+ cover standing still in the open followed by a 4+ feel no pain....

....psycannons do nothing, and they have too many wounds in the squadron to kill them with Nemesis weapons.

GKT's cannot kill Nob biker units, stay in your land raiders that are firing their lascannons....and pray they miss them with claws.

Grey Knights are one of the poorest choices for fighting these boyz.

What? I have disagree with you. Obviously you have no argument supporting your case other than pyscannons do nothing.

I play Grey Knights, just a little differently to the others but it's all good.
What point game are talking about?

Land Raider Crusader... do I have to say anything? Yes, hurricane bolters can always fire when the tank moves 12"
POTM allows another weapon (multimelta in this case)
So we can shrug off most assaults.
Grand Master... Kills Warboss easily with NFW (Raw rules) burns a few with his incinerator before charging. Has retinue to live and kill again..
Grey Knight Terminators... Efficient CC monsters, iniative order, 3+, 3+ (t5+) no; save, no; feel no pain. Incinerator should burn loads too aswell as stormbolters.
A unit of bikers cost 700pts? well GM+9GKT retinue costs 594pts. around 13 wounds from CC of the GKT alone! HA

IMO place your wounds from shooting whereever you want... I'm still striking before you in CC.

I would use exterminatus; Melta torpedo, you can't get a cover save from that!

The Grand Master has a decent chance of popping the warboss, but the other termies will be hard pressed to cause over 10 wounds (what it takes to kill 1 Nob) before getting hit back with alot of hell including powerklaws. (The Nobs will also have a 5+ INV save and WS5 due to the Waaagh Banner) Not to mention your 10 man GKT squad will not be in a transport, so the Nobs will most likely be assaulting you, and all the Uge choppas will be swinging at I4 for furious charge. You will most certainly not get the charge off if you are not mounted, which dilutes your CC effectiveness considerably.

9GKT's at 18 attacks
18x(1/2)x(2/3)x(2/3 failed 5+ saves) = 4 wounds, not even killing a single Nob. You have alot of angry powerklaws coming back at you.

9GKT's charging at 27 attacks
27x(1/2)x(2/3)x(2/3 failed 5+ saves) = 6 wounds, not really all that much better, and your GKT's are done for.

Maybe if you gave all your GKT's thunderhammers, but they you should be playing Space Marines for 3+ INV storm shields or Black Templars for re-rolls to hit in CC.

Boyofdestiny205 wrote:GK Termies

I know this was mentioned in the link moz refrenced. Although it was suggested to use the incenirators i too agree they would be smashed aside.

But a 5 man squad with 3 psycannons and another squad with 2 psycannons would be able to whittle down a nob bike squad before it had a chance to charge.

Str 6 at BS 4 + no armor sv and no inv save = dead nob bike squad.

Do your homework better. The incinerator is the best choice because it wounds on 3+ against the Nobz and they will only get their FNP save. The Psycannon is useless because Nob bikers always get a 4+ cover save (because of their bike). So they would get a 4+ cover save and a 4+ FNP against any that got through.

Now if you replace "5 man squad" with "10 fire dragons" and replace "3 psycannons" with "10 Meltaguns", and then take 2 more squads just like that, you may have enough firepower to actually kill a Nob Bike Squad.

Actually that's not bad. 3 units of Fire Dragons will crush this list and the Land Raider Spam lists running around out there. Throw in some anti-horde for good measure and you've got yourself a decent army.

whitedragon wrote:

Boyofdestiny205 wrote:GK Termies

I know this was mentioned in the link moz refrenced. Although it was suggested to use the incenirators i too agree they would be smashed aside.

But a 5 man squad with 3 psycannons and another squad with 2 psycannons would be able to whittle down a nob bike squad before it had a chance to charge.

Str 6 at BS 4 + no armor sv and no inv save = dead nob bike squad.

Do your homework better. The incinerator is the best choice because it wounds on 3+ against the Nobz and they will only get their FNP save. The Psycannon is useless because Nob bikers always get a 4+ cover save (because of their bike). So they would get a 4+ cover save and a 4+ FNP against any that got through.

Now if you replace "5 man squad" with "10 fire dragons" and replace "3 psycannons" with "10 Meltaguns", and then take 2 more squads just like that, you may have enough firepower to actually kill a Nob Bike Squad.

I will surely do that when you yourself do.

Incinertators are only str 5 so how does that wound a T 5 model? Maybe if they are on foot then, yes i agree with your logic.

@ storm knight...you make me laugh.

I dunno where you've been playing but I play Grey Knights as well and am here to tell you they're screwed against double Nob biker lists.

I dont think I need to further embellish what others have already said, you're already wrong on the incinerator point. Its nowhere NEAR as good as you think and anything else Knights can throw at the bikernobs shooty-wise will be inneffectual due to the multi-layer defenses with multiple wounds per model.

roll it out a couple of times if you dont beleive me.

GM and 6 terminators charging out of a land raider, fine, benefit of the doubt you get to charge.

Charging a warboss with claw on bike, and 9 Nobs on Warbikes 4-5 of which have claws, every single one a seperate batch for rolling saves....

....and then there is a second identical unit closeby in support of the first one ready to kill whatever you didnt lose against the first.

Yes, Grey Knights are screwed vs. bikernobs. One of the best current lists against a list widely regarded as the worst....and your telling us that they have a chance.

Yea.

No, I'm not interested in the bridge, thank you.

Ozymandias wrote:Actually that's not bad. 3 units of Fire Dragons will crush this list and the Land Raider Spam lists running around out there. Throw in some anti-horde for good measure and you've got yourself a decent army.

Even when they've got a 3+ cover save? (only the exarch removes the cover save remember.) I dont see it. not even using 30 fire dragons.

Even if you manage to beat the bikernobs with all those firedragons (must be all mounted too) good luck beating the 180 model ork horde with tons of lootaz.

It's not that easy to beat bikernobs. Not that simple. You gotta be more creative than "I'll just shoot them". Shooting them is what they want you to do....it means you're dead next turn.

I haven't played against any nob biker list yet, so this might not work.

If you are playing eldar, try fielding Eldrad. He can use his mind-war to pick of the painboys. Once the painboy is down, all the squad has left is a 4+ cover save (or 3+ after turbo-boost).

For your space marine list, I'd suggest assault terminators with thunderhammer and storm shield (like others have already suggested). They will get a 2+ save against the basic attacks and a 3+ inv save against the powerklaws. They ignore both the cover save (in close combat) and feel no pain for the nobs. On top of that they cause instant death. You will need a land raider (type depends on the rest of your army list) to get them in combat with the nobs though.

Hope this has been at least a little bit helpful.

Daydream wrote:My advice lines up with what others are advocating.

Vindicators and Assault Terminators are your best bet. Make sure he has to come through difficult terrain to get to you.

Flamers are great weapons, but won't work against Nob Bikers. Not even the heavy variety. In fact, I think they are the worst option since the make you think you can kill the Nobs, when in fact you're just killing yourself.

Off Topic: Who in Houston is running Nob Bikers? I haven't been able to find a person playing them yet, all my games have been with proxies.

Chang at Rice Village has one squad of eight that ran through my blood angel's death company and a guy at SugarLand GW has a squad, but I have never played against him yet. I know of another guy who is building one, but he usually plays at Willowbrook GW or the 77th. I met him last week while he was converting some models. I figure it will catch fire with the power gamers here soon based on how well they seem to be doing. And yes I play Marines on the side, as well as Nids and Necrons. I am thinking about Orks as well.

Airmaniac wrote:If you are playing eldar, try fielding Eldrad.

Sigg'd

It shoudl be mentioned that Low ap flamers tend to work well against them.

Sisters of battle do a number on them, so do things like doom sirens and wind of chaos, especially with lash.

Pete

Just curious, what's your basis for that? I realize you negate the cover save, but heavy flamers are only wounding on 4s, FNP and Cybork apply, and you still have to deal 11+ wounds to put one model down.

I mean, yes, you will kill Nobz this way, but how many squads are we sacrificing in the meantime?

Flamers that ignore armor (the ones he listed, wind of chaos - doom siren - and SoBs with Divine guidance) do not give a feel no pain roll.

I give it a meh though, wounding the nobs doesn't help anything - it just means you win by less when you are punking them out with STR8 in assault because he'll pull the wounded guys.

Use the lash to put the powerklaws out of consolidate range and then charge in with princes, defiler, oblit instead - win combat by 4 or 5 wounds and watch them run off the table.
SoBs gotta shoot though, it's about all they can do. Shoot them down to 9 models and pray to the emperor for some lucky tankshock action.

6 Ironclads seem to be the best possible option for killing the Nob Biker list dead. It also has the added advantages of being able to do well against Ork Horde lists and not being to many points that you couldn't take enough troops and/or other units to make the army more usable against other lists in your area.

@Deadshane- If your firedragons are dismounting from their waveserpent and shooting into nobs that just turboboosted, you don't know how to play. After the nobs shoot or assault your screening troops, then you pop out and shoot. 10 shots, 6.66 hits, one wound on warboss, ~3 dead nobs. Do this again with another squad, or just start tank shocking until they run.
Firedragons put a hurting on nob bikers. Played that matchup at FLGS and tournaments and firedragons combined with all the other ap1-2 shooting eldar put out will bring down Nob bikers. They can't spend the game turboboosting and be effective.

Boyofdestiny205 wrote:
I will surely do that when you yourself do.

Incinertators are only str 5 so how does that wound a T 5 model? Maybe if they are on foot then, yes i agree with your logic.

Even at S5, the incinerator hurts the Biker Nobz more than the Psycannon does. The fact that I misquoted a strength value does not make your argument automatically valid.

Pyscannon at S6
1x(2/3 to wound)x(1/2 cover save)x(1/2 feel no pain) = 0..166666667 wounds

Incinerator at S5
1x(1/2 to wound)x(1/2 feel no pain) = 0.25 wounds

Add in the fact that the incinerator hits automatically, can cover multiple models, and is cheaper, makes it the superior choice by far to dealing with Biker Nobz. You might be able to put GKT's with incinerators or maybe even a PAGK purgation squad in an LRC and tank shock the nobs and jump out and bake them, then have a unit of GKT's pray that they finish them off, but that's the best you'll do with Grey Knights.