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The JanWWAAAUUUGGGHHHary 09 edition of WD. Is it me, or does it seem to hint that GW may start doing wizards of the coast style supplements to the codices or armylists.

It's in the article about being able to introduce models between codex releases.

What do you think? If they do such would it improve or harm the game?

I guess it was just me. Oh well

Are you referring to the Standard Bearer article? Please be a bit more specific here!

Don't have book in front of me right now. Can tell you it was in the middle of the section covering the new ork releases and near or on same page as showing the new Baneblade? variant sneek-peek.

You're talking about Orks Wave 2 in January? And presumably Marines Wave 2 sometime later this year? Yeah, it's good because the Codices will have all of their models.

Not familiar with the way Wizards of the Coast does things. How are
they similar?

malfred wrote:Not familiar with the way Wizards of the Coast does things. How are
they similar?

Apparently they release supplements for their codices and armylists. For their card games.

malfred wrote:Not familiar with the way Wizards of the Coast does things. How are
they similar?

The latest editions of their flagship games are poorly received and leaked online as well.

GW tried the whole Chapter Approved thing for a while about 4ish years ago, and then quit because you had to lug around 12 issues of White Dwarf to every tournament for the rules for the new models. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth, so they eventually stopped it.

(For those that don't know, Chapter Approved introduced new rules, such as the Kroot Mercenary army and the Abhuman Imperial Guard doctrines. I think Mounted Daemonettes fell under this category as well. Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

If GW thought it through a bit better, I can see it going well. I for one, loved the Codex Armageddon and Eye of Terror of old. Chapter Approved less so, mainly because they were ill thought through typically, and lacked accompanying models. I love Imperial Armour too, if only for the obscure and interesting things you find. That Valdor Tank Hunter would have be raiding my wallet quicker than you can say.. well something short, if not for the fact I'm putting off a sequel to my IG army til the new codex. I loved flawed technology.

Anyway, the main sticking point as I see it is the view off IA and CA as "unofficial" and "tournament illegal" and "opponent's consent". This somehow makes people unwilling to invest, despite the fact that 99% of games most people play are friendly, and I've met very few people who object to my use of Heavy Mortars from IA5 (Standard rounds though, even I can see the broken nature of Infernus rounds). The only person for whom I willingly self-censor is my regular Tau opponent, against whom the Mortars are disproportionately effective given his high quantity of fire warriors. In carrying around a modified strictly-legal 1500 army in the same case, I'm also prepared should I find an opponent who objects on bases other than that removal of fun (as in the case of the mortars). That said, people who object forthright to IA rules without a real basis behind the argument do not typically make the best opponents, but still...

Anyway, that was a healthy diversion. If GW were to adopt this expansion paradigm, it must be two things. Well thought through and tested, and with the same "legality" and current codexes are. With regards to tournaments, a greater number of army choices makes for an exponential increase in potential combinations, and with sufficient new choices, broken combinations will appear. Just look at Magic the Gathering - otherwise harmless cards turn into game breaking monsters in combination with some other equally unlikely card. They have a simple solution - banned lists. 40k is slightly harder, as people have a stronger emotional attachment to their models, but lets be honest here. People who will be first to assemble such armies as such broken combinations are identified will likely be doing so for competitive advantage rather than attachment to the models or concept. As such, so long as certain entries (or perhaps, certain combinations of units) are identified and banned (or perhaps restricted) quickly, minimum fuss should arise. Well, minimum fuss after an initial period of utter chaos, lets be honest.

GCMandrake wrote:

If GW were to adopt this expansion paradigm, it must be two things. Well thought through and tested, and with the same "legality" and current codexes are.

Well, there goes that idea!

GW should make all their codexes available as downloadable PDF files -- charged for -- and release interim updates as free PDFs.

They could then release new models between codex revisions as well as updating codexes easily after a new rules edition.

If they are a model company it should make sense to promote the model sales by free updates.

If they are worried about the users who can't download stuff, they could stick a laser printer in each store, attached to the in-store ordering computer, and sell ready printed updates right there.

Wizards with D&D would sell the basic set up for the game. Then relase supplements to add on to the game.

They do with rule books what GW does with armies and minatures.

My thought was, What if when they had a new model release, they also released the rules for it and actually had buyable updates to the existing rules(not asking for free updates or pdf's because GW doesn't give anything away for free)?

focusedfire wrote:The JanWWAAAUUUGGGHHHary 09 edition of WD. Is it me, or does it seem to hint that GW may start doing wizards of the coast style supplements to the codices or armylists.

It's in the article about being able to introduce models between codex releases.

What do you think? If they do such would it improve or harm the game?

I would have said like privateer press. Releasing models after the book is out myself.

@Carmachu, The article hinted at new models with new rules not in codex. IMHO The only way they could do this is a Wizards style supplement release.

Started this thread to see if anyone else got the same hint. If so, then how they think GW would do it. And, Would it improve or hurt the game?

Personally, I like the idea. As long as they don't use it as an excuse to give you half a codex like wizards would.

One solution maybe stat /or reference cards. I know other gaming systems or even previous Editions of Fantasy and 40k had cards to some degree. New unit or character = new card with pretty artwork. Also, with the move to more use of universal rules, as opposed to army specific rules; this makes it abit simplier, though army specific rules could be easily added to a reference sheet. They could periodically still offer codecies for those who enjoy fluff or need a more detailed description of wargear and such. This means no lugging of large piles of books to a tournament or flipping through endless pages to find sporatic rules.
For some reason, this either doesn't work mechanically, logistically, or doesn't make GW enough money, because GW is not currently doing it.

Yeah it would be nice to have rules for good old cypher he's been on a shelf for so long now..... a little rule update maybe in pdf form on their website would be good, too bad gee dubya don't do good

Kilkrazy wrote:GW should make all their codexes available as downloadable PDF files -- charged for -- and release interim updates as free PDFs.

They could then release new models between codex revisions as well as updating codexes easily after a new rules edition.

If they are a model company it should make sense to promote the model sales by free updates.

If they are worried about the users who can't download stuff, they could stick a laser printer in each store, attached to the in-store ordering computer, and sell ready printed updates right there.

I agree they should be downloadable in addition to being able to buy them if you want. it is much easier to flip through pages of a book, then use a PDF all the time. but I do believe GW should get into a habit of releasing PDF updates that you can print out and carry with you and are tourny legal.

EyeofTzeentch wrote:One solution maybe stat /or reference cards. I know other gaming systems or even previous Editions of Fantasy and 40k had cards to some degree. New unit or character = new card with pretty artwork. Also, with the move to more use of universal rules, as opposed to army specific rules; this makes it abit simplier, though army specific rules could be easily added to a reference sheet. They could periodically still offer codecies for those who enjoy fluff or need a more detailed description of wargear and such. This means no lugging of large piles of books to a tournament or flipping through endless pages to find sporatic rules.
For some reason, this either doesn't work mechanically, logistically, or doesn't make GW enough money, because GW is not currently doing it.

It would be to much work for GW, they have to invest a lot of time in to rescupting and adding new models with every new Codex coming out, if they had to go back to re-do that work just to add one or two more models it would take even longer to get a new codex out, and it could be one that needed an update more.


And lets be honest here, do we really need MORE SM updates?

Maybe include the new rule with the models. Nahh, GW would never do that. They'd claim to much waste.

I, also dont see them doing this in a way that cuts back on books or paper.

IMHO I see it happening(if it happens) as supplemental pages or whole supplemental books. Sort of like (just an example, not asking for)Craftworld eldar. This would be a way of getting those heros mentioned but not written-up into the game.


@JokerGod-As to it being to much work? Read the white dwarf. Seems like they feel it isn't.

Iorek wrote:GW tried the whole Chapter Approved thing for a while about 4ish years ago, and then quit because you had to lug around 12 issues of White Dwarf to every tournament for the rules for the new models. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth, so they eventually stopped it.

(For those that don't know, Chapter Approved introduced new rules, such as the Kroot Mercenary army and the Abhuman Imperial Guard doctrines. I think Mounted Daemonettes fell under this category as well. Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

You are correct on all counts.

GW's current approach is to release main versions of the ruleset more frequently (4-year cycle vs. 5+ years) to address rules changes. I think this is a better overall approach.

Downloadable Erratas were the pain back then, held me back from getting into 40k. Releasing models without a new book is a good approach, imo, but not as restricted as the second wave releases (why not something for Eldar or Tau or Necrons for a change?)

What I would like to see is a short sheet of the universal special rules and race specific special rules on the Gw page (with current stats for weapons and units). That would clear most of rules questions (so, when do you phase out exactly? What do markerlights do?) and you could strealine different weapons easier (Deamonhunters/Dark Angels don't need to buy the space marine codex for example, cutting Gws profit, but making it easier for starters). For free of course.

Other than that, I want my codex and the rulebook and be done with it.

Greets
Schepp himself

I took the latest Standard Bearer to mean that the company would release minis that aren't dependent on a simultaneous release and that's all. They could be (and most likely will be) existing models or models that already exist in the rules. I could see some special characters coming out, but I'm not holding my breath.

What makes people think that GW is going to start putting out supplements for the rules when these new models come out?

AFAIK, everything in the Ork wave 2 already has (or has had) rules available. Am I incorrect? I can see new models for IG regiments that aren't their preferred regimental weapons. Another example might be new DE sybarites or a new gargoyle model.

I took the article to mean their would be releases for non-SM players with roughly the same pace as SM releases throughout the year.

Dude: multiple minis Waves means that the Codex can have more options because those options will be filled by Wave 2 minis.

GW won't be adding new rules via the Wave strategy, simply making sure that everything has minis.

I'll take your word for it DD. When I read it I wasn't sure.

They could have been referencing the upcoming IG release, the collectors series, or special characters. He was just being cryptic in how they were going to release, I guess. It really did seem like he was alluding to rule releases with some of the characters, though.

JohnHwangDD: That's possible, but wasn't it stated early in the article that rules without models angered the customer ('and rightly so')? That's why I figured Codex options were irrelevant.

Being cryptic is a bonus as it let's the company be flexible and change their minds. But I would be surprised if GW went into a WotC model.

@Dude: Rules without models were things like the 3E Eldar Wave Serpent and SM Drop Pod. Those things were Codex options long before there were specific minis for them.

GW is going for a different approach from now on.

No longer will an army only see releases when they get a new book. They want every army to be getting bits and pieces here and there.

GW has a tonne of sculptors on staff now, so can let whoever wants to work on whatever they want.

That means more models that we want, done by talented sculptors who want to do them, not being forced to do them.

I dunno if they want to follow the now 'current' WotC model. Since the release of 4E, they've been touting the DnDInsider. Although highly advertised and they totally did not deliver on time, you can see the wave of things to come. For a monthly fee, you get access to this, that and the other thing. But as it applies to GW, WotC has Dragon and Dungeon Magazine as part of that package. Subscribers will have access to new rules and classes weeks or months before the unwashed masses and are able to use said rules and classes in the official Living Forgotten Realms.

How does this apply? If GW came up with an Emperor's Inner Circle where subscribers could have access to this and that but also to new rules and units; and at the extreme new models? Imagine turning up to a GT as one of said unwashed mass, and getting paired up with one of the EIC who has a ream of PDF's and new rules that he's allowed to use? No thanks.

Of course, that's an extreme example, but food for thought. Also, if I see anything named Emperor's Inner Circle come up this year; I'll sue.

GW would never ever do free pdfs. They considered the BA codex in white dwarf a fail, because that didn't sell models. I can't imagine something even more extreme like a free pdf ever getting off the ground.

I think it's a noble idea, but it's kinda like WOW not charging $15 a month. It just would never happen. When they do a new release, there's a tangible, "This many people bought the new army! It was a hit." When you update several pdf's at a time for free, the benefits would be a lot more nebulous and less obvious. Even if it made sense, trying to pitch it as a design idea to a higher up would never happen.

It's good for the gamer, but terrible for beginners, and I hate to say it, but beginners make a lot more money for GW than regulars do.