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For those who don't know THQ is making a 40k mmorpg following the Dawn of War series. When I was playing the beta for DOW2 it hit me that perhaps the 3 commanders found in each army might be some of the classes we'll probably see in the mmo.(If there are any classes) Anyone think the same or have any other class ideas?

You'll get to play a grunt 1000 times (1 hp). Every 1000 deaths you get to play
a Space Marine (1000 hps).

Rinse and repeat.

What I'm really hoping for is just to get rid of classes and add a perk like system. Also I wouldn't want Imperial guard to be a seperate race but instead a low level "human" and higher level "human"would be space marines. Thats my take on what they should make it what do you guys think? (Similar system for all other races of course)

You have to think end game though.

You'd end up 40 Space Marines and virtually no Imperial Guardsmen.

malfred wrote:You have to think end game though.

You'd end up 40 Space Marines and virtually no Imperial Guardsmen.

If its any good,(saying that it is) it probably will have new players poping up every now and than and dont forget about npc's.

Every now and then still doesn't balance out the numbers.

There has to be a way for such a game to encourage people to play as grunts.

malfred wrote:Every now and then still doesn't balance out the numbers.

There has to be a way for such a game to encourage people to play as grunts.

If your familiar to wow maybe encourage the making of a twink like toon.

malfred wrote:You'll get to play a grunt 1000 times (1 hp). Every 1000 deaths you get to play
a Space Marine (1000 hps).

Rinse and repeat.

For all you/ we know it could be a Rogue Trader game. Or an anything game.

Tacobake wrote:


For all we know it could be a Rogue Trader game. Or an anything game.

according to the following link it will be a mmorpg http://www.massively.com/2008/05/12/warhammer-40k-mmo-info-update/
(if thats what you mean. I'm not sure what you mean by a rogue trader game)

I mean it could be an MMO where everyone is a Rogue Trader. Like Privateer or Freelancer. As opposed to say a Fire Warrior version of WAR.

Or it could be an MMO where everyone is a planetary govenor. Or ... whatever. Maybe it is Grim Darkness Eve Online.

Mind you I did not actually _read_ the article. Your article, that is.

-> Looks interesting.

Probably do the Eve thing or Planetary Govenor.

I mean come on, 40k would make a Kickass FPS, but they only had one game that was FPS and it sucked.

Even TPS would be interesting but I doubt they'll actually use the idea because they want to create another 'Wow' spin off as with WAR. Doubt it'll actually go anywhere though.

!? wrote:Even TPS would be interesting but I doubt they'll actually use the idea because they want to create another 'Wow' spin off as with WAR. Doubt it'll actually go anywhere though.

They're currently in production of a 3rd Person Shooter called Space Marine for 360.

pizzaman11 wrote:What I'm really hoping for is just to get rid of classes and add a perk like system. Also I wouldn't want Imperial guard to be a seperate race but instead a low level "human" and higher level "human"would be space marines. Thats my take on what they should make it what do you guys think? (Similar system for all other races of course)

So you'd wanna play a 13 year old until level 40? Guardsman to Space Marine isn't a justifiable leap because the creation of a Marine has to be started in the preteen years and I doubt GW would allow THQ to re-write such a significant fluff point. So either Guard and Marines as separate races or cut one out as a playable race/class(if this route is gone, they'd cut Guard) or just deal with the fact that Marines will either have to be scouts or be better than everyone else.

However, this "mass combat" style of play leads me to suspect squads(either random "parties" or AI buddies/pets) are involved in some way.

Platuan4th wrote:

!? wrote:Even TPS would be interesting but I doubt they'll actually use the idea because they want to create another 'Wow' spin off as with WAR. Doubt it'll actually go anywhere though.

They're currently in production of a 3rd Person Shooter called Space Marine for 360.

pizzaman11 wrote:What I'm really hoping for is just to get rid of classes and add a perk like system. Also I wouldn't want Imperial guard to be a seperate race but instead a low level "human" and higher level "human"would be space marines. Thats my take on what they should make it what do you guys think? (Similar system for all other races of course)

So you'd wanna play a 13 year old until level 40? Guardsman to Space Marine isn't a justifiable leap because the creation of a Marine has to be started in the preteen years and I doubt GW would allow THQ to re-write such a significant fluff point. So either Guard and Marines as separate races or cut one out as a playable race/class(if this route is gone, they'd cut Guard) or just deal with the fact that Marines will either have to be scouts or be better than everyone else.

However, this "mass combat" style of play leads me to suspect squads(either random "parties" or AI buddies/pets) are involved in some way.

Combininng space marine and the mmo would be my dream game, but alas to high system req would cause every computer to explode if you put it in your CD drive. O.K back to the brunt of your post, yes I know that there are quiet many flaws to the imperial guard to space marine progress for storyline purposes, but its the only way I can think of with a mmo progression and also balances. (which will win a space marine with his gun about the size of an average human or flashlights.)What would be a system you guys would think is better?

A 40K MMO cannot work if it follows traditional structures. WAR has a few points you need to squint at as it is (goblins are the equals of chaos warriors and dwarf runepriests…) and the power differences are much greater in 40K. They could focus on more powerful types like Imperial Assassins and Nobs to compete with Space Marines

There’s also a problem with the basic combat mechanics of a sci-fi RPG. Tanking, healing and DPS make even less sense, and an emphasis on ranged shooting ruins most of the basic strategy elements of games like WoW and WAR. To feel like 40K it would have to be a radically different game. That might mean more twitch mechanics, it might mean a higher level strategic focus.

Which they might be doing. The article is very vague, but suggests it might be a very different model to the traditional MMO.

Yea i saw the trailer for Space Marine but the mechanics and system is so buggy and wrong E.g. impaling a Chaos Cultist in the chest with a running chainblade is only considered 'stunning' him and you must continue to 'finish him off' by swiping it back onto him.
And it wouldn't be as innovative or as fun as GoW is, your just basically a soldier killing a bunch of guys with a chainsaw.

for the Imp's perhaps they could design it so that later in the game they could become Comissars or Commanders and be able to control the entire army. Better yet stick with the Guard long enough and you can use a Baneblade.

I think that if they approach this like any other generic MMO, they will fail miserably.

What needs to happen is you need to be in control of a squad. Instead of leveling up, you need to be able to earn 'points' by participating in battle. Since the tabletop system is inherently balanced, this would work wonders for an MMO, as playing a singular character would just not make sense. The range of how 'good' the singular troops of each race are is just far too wide to have it make any sense at all. If they did it this way, you could potentially play as any race in the game. This will also give you an option to switch to a different troop on the fly, to be able to take advantage of, say, a plasma gun without having to pull it out of your ass.

You should also have to "unlock" new unit types, through missions or something like that. Say, you'd have to undertake a mission to be able to control a dreadnaught (in place of an entire squad, of course). Speaking of unlockables, throughout the game you should consistently unlock ways to customize your units.

I've put entirely too much thought into this. This is a verrrry basic outline of what I'd want in a W40k MMO (I've gone far too deep into detail, and it is a working game in my mind. Sad, I know), but it's not going to happen, so I don't even know why I waste my time.

If they make you control a singular character...It's. Going. To. Suck.

Don't get your hopes up.

Marines
joe space marine = tank class
assault marine = CC DPS (no gay ass cloking though)
Devistator = Ranged DPS (a pet-less huntard)
Apoth = Healer
Termie = (something like WoW druish???)

Guard
Joe Guardsmen = something bad that everyone MUST play... mabey this is what the storm tropper, officer, and medic all start out as... as they gain levels, they chose what they want to become.
Ogryn = Tank
Storm tropepr = Ranged DPS
Officer = CC DPS / buffer
Medic = Healer

Orks, Orks, Orks, Orks...
Da Boy = tank
Da Nobs = buffer
Komando = CC DPS (WITH gay ass cloking)
Eavy Weapon boy = Ranged DPS
Pain boy = Healer

Space Elves.
howling banshee = tank
warlock = healer / buffer
hrelequin = CC DPS
dark reaper = ranged DPS
pathfinder = negitive buffers to put on bad guys with a bit of Ranged DPS
guardian = what warlock, pathfinders, and mabey dark reapers start out as.... as they level up, they choose which aspect they wish to follow.

If there's any hope of balancing Space Marines with the guard, you'd need to have the Marines be unlocked by dropping a huge number of points into one area of specialization. Perhaps have guardsmen able to focus on weaponry, personal armor, vehicle operation, communications, medics or any of the various material specializations possible. And if you set your talents up a certain way you would then unlock carapace armor, giving you the option to become a scout, followed by power armor, which would turn you into a space marine. To wear that power armor, and use those mighty plasma guns, you'd have to forfeit a great deal of flexibility and beneficial gear. I think the Shadowbane system might be the best fit for character customization.

Chrysaor686 wrote:I think that if they approach this like any other generic MMO, they will fail miserably.

What needs to happen is you need to be in control of a squad. Instead of leveling up, you need to be able to earn 'points' by participating in battle. Since the tabletop system is inherently balanced, this would work wonders for an MMO, as playing a singular character would just not make sense. The range of how 'good' the singular troops of each race are is just far too wide to have it make any sense at all. If they did it this way, you could potentially play as any race in the game. This will also give you an option to switch to a different troop on the fly, to be able to take advantage of, say, a plasma gun without having to pull it out of your ass.

You should also have to "unlock" new unit types, through missions or something like that. Say, you'd have to undertake a mission to be able to control a dreadnaught (in place of an entire squad, of course). Speaking of unlockables, throughout the game you should consistently unlock ways to customize your units.

I've put entirely too much thought into this. This is a verrrry basic outline of what I'd want in a W40k MMO (I've gone far too deep into detail, and it is a working game in my mind. Sad, I know), but it's not going to happen, so I don't even know why I waste my time.

If they make you control a singular character...It's. Going. To. Suck.

Don't get your hopes up.

But imagine how hard that will be to control. The only way to make a controllable squad based rpg would be to make a pause tool and that would be horrible, with your opponent pausing every 2 sec. The speed of the game would be so slow it would be unbearable. Of course they could somehow make ingenious AI, but the way DOW2 is right now the AI ain't so great. A great idea for PVE (no more waiting to find a group) but lacking in PVP.

Space Marines.
Start as a scout, specialize as sternguard, vanguard, or terminator.

Imperial Guard
I see this one as being the "pet" class. You play a Junior officer and your pets are your squad. As you advance in level you can give them different gear (ie plasma, flamers etc.)

Eldar Aspect Warriors

Orks - Start as a boy end up as a uge nob, mek or warp 'ead.

I think the toughest ones would be necrons and nids. I think I would probably leave them as npc's only.

But what would draw me to the game would be if you could actually use vehicles. Sentinnel powerlifter ftw, vypers, etc.

An AI system really wouldn't be as hard to implement as you might think. They already have a few FTP (Free to Play) MMOs with multiple character control. I'd be perfectly happy to have my squad mimic the basic actions of the unit I'm controlling. They could also have a command system for directing your AI on the fly (Think something like Rainbow Six), but I doubt more than a few people would take advantage of it all the time. I don't think that a pause would have to be implemented at all, because there's not much difference between having a single character and having a bunch of AI teammates follow your lead (Since in the tabletop game, you can't really differentiate what a squad can do anyway. They all must move together, They all must shoot all of their weaponry at whatever you insist they do, etc.).

I would think that PVP (for the most part) would follow an FOC in an instanced zone, at least for larger-scale PVP (though I could imagine that tons of people would argue over who gets to be the HQ, for those who have unlocked an HQ option. I think those should be saved for the endgame anyway, but perhaps the HQ should be AI controlled?). Imagine a full organization chart of players with their own squads going head to head. That would be epic.

There's no getting around the fact that controlling a single character in a 40k game would suck something awful. Unless, of course, it degenerates into something like Space Marines vs. Chaos (which it probably will), or has only a singular focus, like a game where you play an Inquisitor. Without completely destroying fluff left and right, you can't make this into a WoW. At all. Soldiers come equipped with the armor they wear, and looting it just doesn't work. Switching weapons? Pfft. Like that makes any sense at all. Hit points? Really? In 40k? I don't think so. Money and a player economy? Why? Classes? Absolutely not, unless you want to be stuck in the same place forever without ever feeling any progression.

I could go on.

Chrysaor686 wrote:An AI system really wouldn't be as hard to implement as you might think. They already have a few FTP (Free to Play) MMOs with multiple character control. I'd be perfectly happy to have my squad mimic the basic actions of the unit I'm controlling. They could also have a command system for directing your AI on the fly (Think something like Rainbow Six), but I doubt more than a few people would take advantage of it all the time. I don't think that a pause would have to be implemented at all, because there's not much difference between having a single character and having a bunch of AI teammates follow your lead (Since in the tabletop game, you can't really differentiate what a squad can do anyway. They all must move together, They all must shoot all of their weaponry at whatever you insist they do, etc.).

I would think that PVP (for the most part) would follow an FOC in an instanced zone, at least for larger-scale PVP (though I could imagine that tons of people would argue over who gets to be the HQ, for those who have unlocked an HQ option. I think those should be saved for the endgame anyway, but perhaps the HQ should be AI controlled?). Imagine a full organization chart of players with their own squads going head to head. That would be epic.

There's no getting around the fact that controlling a single character in a 40k game would suck something awful. Unless, of course, it degenerates into something like Space Marines vs. Chaos (which it probably will), or has only a singular focus, like a game where you play an Inquisitor. Without completely destroying fluff left and right, you can't make this into a WoW. At all. Soldiers come equipped with the armor they wear, and looting it just doesn't work. Switching weapons? Pfft. Like that makes any sense at all. Hit points? Really? In 40k? I don't think so. Money and a player economy? Why? Classes? Absolutely not, unless you want to be stuck in the same place forever without ever feeling any progression.

I could go on.

Maybe adding a single player enviroment and a squad based enviroment would be best. imperium= space marine/imperial gurad
space marine = loner or few squad mates depending equipment etc.
imperial guard= lots of squad members
same thing with every other race orks= mega armor/boys tau= crisis/fire warriors chaos= space marin/ lost and the damned etc.
instead of classes add a perk like system like I said before. You want to snipe get steady aim, you want to melee get natural initiative etc. and maybe you could earn more perks along the way by getting expert sniper training if you want to be a sniper or get preffered enemy ork if you kill a lot of orks. What do ya think.

It is very possible they may go for more of a battle fleet gothic / rogue trader style mmo where its all about ship combat and what not like EVE. Thereby fixing the issues you guys are worried about with the whole class balance thing. Another way is just leave the imp gaurd or space marines behind and not let you play as one or the other. For instance you might only be able to play space marines and never gaurd, who are just used as npcs and such. Or vice versa. Nobody said they had to make both the imp gaurd and marines playable races.

I have various other solutions for fixing this issue, but as a game designer in the industry I'm not allowed to elaborate on those.

Strimen wrote:It is very possible they may go for more of a battle fleet gothic / rogue trader style mmo where its all about ship combat and what not like EVE. Thereby fixing the issues you guys are worried about with the whole class balance thing. Another way is just leave the imp gaurd or space marines behind and not let you play as one or the other. For instance you might only be able to play space marines and never gaurd, who are just used as npcs and such. Or vice versa. Nobody said they had to make both the imp gaurd and marines playable races.

I have various other solutions for fixing this issue, but as a game designer in the industry I'm not allowed to elaborate on those.

and what game might that be that your designing or already have out? Or is that confidential as well

When I read about it in the PC Gamer article, I was thinking, you would have there basic troop choices for the standard "warrior", with a mix of close combat and range fighting.
And the heavy support would act as a tank, scouts as assassins, and so on and so forth. For like close combat, for tau, I was thinking they'd give them a bonus for having a longer rifle to whack someone with.

We already agreed that a standard Mummorpegger (MMORPG) would stink. We though of squadbased combat much like the terrible Squad Command game but that would be bad.
Why not do what they did in Rainbow 6 or Republic commando and control your squad through keybinds?
Seriously, we need a good FPS for 40k.

We already agreed that a standard Mummorpegger (MMORPG) would stink. We though of squadbased combat much like the terrible Squad Command game but that would be bad.
Why not do what they did in Rainbow 6 or Republic commando and control your squad through keybinds?
Seriously, we need a good FPS for 40k.

!? wrote:We already agreed that a standard Mummorpegger (MMORPG) would stink. We though of squadbased combat much like the terrible Squad Command game but that would be bad.
Why not do what they did in Rainbow 6 or Republic commando and control your squad through keybinds?
Seriously, we need a good FPS for 40k.

If im not mistaken Tabula Rasa is a successful MMORPG / FPS that 40k MMORPG can attempt to follow.

Ranged Scout type: Eldar Ranger , SM Scout , IG Sniper ,
Ranged Siege type: SM Devastator , Eldar Dark Reaper , IG HVY Weapon
Assault: Eldar Banshee , SM Assault Squad , IG Veteran / Ogryn
Support Caster: Eldar Warlock , SM Apocathary , IG Commisar / Priest
Caster DPSer : Eldar Farseer , SM Librarian , IG Psyker

I think the best way this could be achieved is by knocking off the RPG, and making it a Team-Fortess/UTOnslaught style deal over a much bigger map. Bots to autofill either side, a limited number of certain classes (ie, players could usually be sergeants followed by a mob of bots, mix in a few apothecaries and perhaps even a standard bearer class!)

The objectives could be made more interesting, vehicles could be exclusively scripted, or AI based... Respawning would involve possessing an AI bot who is still alive, and scenarios would be actual scenarios rather than fifteen-minute deathmatches.

I've wanted to see this for a long time.

The big problem with following classical MMORPGs is the 'hero' aspect - half a dozen Libarians pissing all over one map? Come on. Of course, they're probably not interested in making a game they can't charge subscription for.