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I searched and did not see this question asked.

If a dreadnought makes a consolidation move from winning close combat can it use smoke after it moves?

You can only use smoke in the movement phase.

G

I would not be questioning that if the rules for smoke did say only in the movement phase.

It just says after completing it's move. A consolidation move is a move.

I believe the rules intend for their use only in the movement phase, because they prohibit you from shooting.
Walkers must have been an oversight, as regular vehicles may not assault, and therefore cannot consolodate.
I'd say, no.

davidson wrote:I would not be questioning that if the rules for smoke did say only in the movement phase.

It just says after completing its move. A consolidation move is a move.

But the move being referred to is the movement which takes place in the movement phase. Otherwise you could argue that the dreadnaught can't use smoke launchers during the movement phase since it might run, and therefore haven't finished its move yet, or similar silliness.

Hmmm, new thought. If a dreadnaught pops smoke, then runs, is it still concealed? or, sense it's move wasn't "finished" per se, is it negated?

Yes it is , smoke happens at the end of movement, you may not shoot , you may run.
Nothing in the rules interfers with the smoke rules

You pop smoke instead of shooting, hence you can't run if you pop smoke.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:You pop smoke instead of shooting, hence you can't run if you pop smoke.

G

Pg. 72 BGB under heading "WALKERS SHOOTING" second paragraph. Yes they can.

Green Blow Fly wrote:You pop smoke instead of shooting, hence you can't run if you pop smoke.

G

No, the book says that the vehicle may not fire any of it's weapons in the same turn as it used it's smoke launchers.

So in my case my dread was in close combat during my shooting phase. I could not and did not shoot.

During the assault phase my dread killed all it's opponents and made a consolidation move.

The smoke rules say nothing about only being used in the shooting phase.

It still sounds a bit dodgy. I'm not saying it's illegal... I'll have to take a look at the rules.

G

The fact that using the smoke launcher is listed under the title Walkers Shooting tells me that you use them during the shooting phase, just like the reference to running. So I do indeed think you are not allowed to fire the smoke launcher in any other phase. Sorry.

G

It says pretty concisely in the rule book on page 62 that "...once completing its move a vehicle with smoke launchers can trigger them..."

They don't say shooting phase. It speaks of using them after it moved in the movement phase.

So the OP question asks if it can be used after it moves in a consolidation. None of this has anything to do with the shooting phase.

My answer is simply I don't know because there is no direct way of saying yes either way.

If it was a tournament and I was an official I would go based on traditional rules over the history of 40k and say no, you may only use them in main movement phase. But then again its a judgement call. There nothing truly "official" that one could glean from the RAW, or even RAI.

The rules on page 62 are further clarified by the rules on page 72 in my opinion.

G

If you adhere to p62 & p72 your fine..

if you adhere to p72 on its own, your fine..

but if you just adhere to p62 then you can become in conflict with p72.. i.e using smoke launchers in the movement phase which is in disgreement with p72.

Simple as..

No actually you're not fine with those 2 pages. Read those pages and look at the OP's question. I think you'll find something interesting.

I read them both... Nothing on either page changes my opinion. I am interested to hear what you found interesting.

G

GBF has the gist of it. You can only use Smoke Launchers (SL) at the end of the "Movement Phase". And no other. Walkers however on page 72 have a special rule allowing them to run even if they popped smoke.

What seems to be the disconnect is that some readers may think that because using SL is listed under the heading of "WALKER SHOOTING" then it is used in the shooting phase. This is just not so. In fact the paragraph is talking about running (this you *do* in the shooting phase). The paragraph only brings up SL because the writer wanted to clarify that using SL would not interfere with the walkers ability to run and that's all.

The only time you may use SL in any other phase would be if your codex says that you can do so. If not, its in the movement phase *only*.

padixon wrote:GBF has the gist of it. You can only use Smoke Launchers (SL) at the end of the "Movement Phase". And no other. Walkers however on page 72 have a special rule allowing them to run even if they popped smoke.

What seems to be the disconnect is that some readers may think that because using SL is listed under the heading of "WALKER SHOOTING" then it is used in the shooting phase. This is just not so.

What's interesting is everyone assumes and is quoting the rule book that it takes place in the movement phase when in fact it does not say so.

It says "after completing it's move" Not in the movement phase...

If you cannot dazzle them with brillance then obfusicate.

G

While not directly related the wording is the same....
The scout bike cluster mines say

"Cluster mines are automatically triggered the first time a unit friendly or enemy moves into the booby-trapped terrain"

It does not say only in the moving phase will these mines trigger, but the first time something moves into the terrain. That would include a consolidation move.

davidson wrote:While not directly related the wording is the same....
The scout bike cluster mines say

"Cluster mines are automatically triggered the first time a unit friendly or enemy moves into the booby-trapped terrain"

It does not say only in the moving phase will these mines trigger, but the first time something moves into the terrain. That would include a consolidation move.

okay finish your logic.

smoke can only be fired DURING THE MOVEMENT PHASE. should you be given another round of shooting because you where able to move?

when you step on a mine it blows up no matter what time you step on it. honestly if a dreadnought know's he's assaulting he'll fire the smoke to where he'd be after the assault. you can't fire your assault cannon assault win, move, and pop smoke.

and please understand GW's rules are permissive not restrictive.

there is no rule saying i can't bring a lighter to a game to burn terrain that my flamers hit for cinematic effect. why can't i bring a SOB unit where the squad is made out of 5 sisters glued togethor to form mega faith SOB! still have the same stats but their all mounted on one base and count as one SOB.

it would change what you do, if you walk, know you won't be shot if you fail win at combat then you save the smoke.

honestly a dread can't save his shooting for after the assault. its not warmachine.

Does it honestly have to say "in the movement phase". This is what is wrong with finding answers in the rulebook. (There is nothing wrong with what you are saying Davidson, in fact you are right in that it doesn't ever say "movement phase", but I am just pointing out that the RB is not all inclusive with its rules and it never ever has been.)

I put "Movement phase" in quotes not to quote anything from that section otherwise I would put an entire quote, the quotes are there to designate it as the actual phase so it wouldn't be misunderstood as anything else.

Quite honestly, the only time a vehicle can move (besides walkers) is *in* the movement phase and that is where you find the rules on SL. There is no reason to put "in the Movement Phase" when talking about vehicles because when you talk about moving vehicles, then you *are* talking about the movement phase.

A walker is no exception. So it falls under the pretense that it is a vehicle and so follows the vehicle's rules (to include SL) unless it says otherwise. So, basically a vehicle launches SL at the end of its move (and it can only move in the movement phase) and a walker is included in this assumption. The fact it can assault, run, and make consolidation 'moves' does not preclude the walker from following the rules for vehicles. I know it *doesn't* ever say "movement phase" but, in the case of vehicle rules, you shouldn't have too, and a walker, even with its own slightly different rules, follows this as well.

Remember that the rules set we have is *not* all inclusive and it never will be. Sometimes we have to look at the context of the subject (in this case, SL is talking about vehicles moving, and they can only do this in the movement phase, and the launchers are activated *after* the end of its move, i.e. end of its move and before the shooting phase).

yeah,
So to further enquire this topic, can a Dread pop Smoke while locked in combat?

Panic...

Panic wrote:yeah,
So to further enquire this topic, can a Dread pop Smoke while locked in combat?

Panic...

After it makes its assault move?! By GOD! You have a POINT!

He could have meant in a following turn while engaged with scout bikers.

G

SMOKE LAUNCHERS
Some vehicles have small launchers mounted onto
them that carry smoke canisters (or a more
sophisticated equivalent in the case of some alien
vehicles). These are used to temporarily hide the
vehicle behind concealing clouds of smoke –
especially useful when moving out into the open.
Once per game, after completing its move, a
vehicle with smoke launchers can trigger them (it
doesn’t matter how far it moved). Place some
cotton wool or other suitable marker on or
around the vehicle to show it is obscured. The
vehicle may not fire any of its weapons in the
same turn as it used its smoke launchers, but will
count as obscured in the next enemy Shooting
phase, receiving a 4+ cover save.
After the enemy’s Shooting phase, the smoke
disperses with no further effect. Note that a
vehicle may still use smoke launchers even if its
crew are shaken or stunned.
It is worth pointing out that some armies might
use different versions of smoke launchers, which
have slightly different rules. As normal, the rules in
the Codex take precedence.

My reading is that the rules are pretty clear as to the intention of the rule (it part of the movement phase - the wording is "after completing its move", not "after completing a move".

Trying to interpret it to allow you to use them after consolidation is a blatant attempt at cheesy rules lawyering IMO.

tallmantim wrote:
My reading is that the rules are pretty clear as to the intention of the rule (it part of the movement phase - the wording is "after completing its move", not "after completing a move".

Trying to interpret it to allow you to use them after consolidation is a blatant attempt at cheesy rules lawyering IMO.

"Its move" refers to the Dreadnought. It is a pronoun. If the rule just said "after completing a move", then the Dread could pop smoke after some other unit moved.

None of that grammar says anything about the phase in which its move is made.

tallmantim wrote:
My reading is that the rules are pretty clear as to the intention of the rule (it part of the movement phase - the wording is "after completing its move", not "after completing a move".

Trying to interpret it to allow you to use them after consolidation is a blatant attempt at cheesy rules lawyering IMO.

So if a unit makes a consolidation move into a forest with space marine cluster mines do they blow?

They are worded in the exact same way and mention nothing about in what phase they can blow in.

Heck, they could blow in the movment phase(normal move into the woods), the shooting phase(run into the woods), and the assault phase(assault through the woods)!

Stick with the original question.

G