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Who else here watches the show, and what did you think of the last episodes, or for that matter the show in general.

I marked the thread for spoilers for ther benefit of those for whome the ending has not yet been syndicated and are not prepared to visit Pirate Bay.

Discussion activated, set condition one throughout the Forum.

First hour or so was awesome. Last half was a bit, wtf. I'm pretty sure no one would actually give up technology that keeps what's almost an entire civilization of professionals alive.

Also what the hell is Starbuck? I thought she was supposed to lead humanity toward their doom.

It was a very intresting version of the original, however, WTF... as said... Starbuck, technology...

The last 15 min was a big dissapointment, almost as bad as... just ending with nothing.

But I must say, IT was a good Scifi show in it's own right.

Mik

After much reflection...the ending sucked. The survivors will be f$##%ked when they get a cavity--oops I guess we should have kept our dental technology.

I'm glad I stopped watching after season three. The show went down the toilet once everyone got all sweaty and religious.

I must admit though... when I saw the cave men, I thought... so that's who helped man build the Pyramids.

And that's the concept I was thinking when I saw the original as well.

Mik

All-in-all I thought they did a good job explaining 90% of the mysteries they wrote into the show, with the one exception being that they repeatedly said Starbuck would lead humanity to its doom, although I guess in a round-about way if you think that the never-ending circle of violence is humanity's real doom then I suppose she did indeed.

As for 'what' she is, I think it was pretty clear that she was essentially an angel, as lame as that sounds, but I think that's the message they seemed to be portraying to me.


Ultimately, I still feel like the 2nd half of the series was a desperate attempt to come up with things to keep the series going (the final 5) and then a mad scramble to try to write their way out of the dead-ends they had written themselves into.

Not Doom...end. Ghostbuck or whatever led them to the end of the cycle.

I liked it. Cylon vs. Cylon gunbattles..excellent! Not sure why Cavel ate a bullet though-thats not his style.

I particularly liked the Adama's last ride in the raptor-very poignant. On the positive, Helo is now lamish which means he's one of the "Sick, aged, and weak" when the pack hunters come.

Keeping their technology going would have been impossible. You have to rebuild that base of technology. Without the Galactica's abilities they would not have been able to do that. After all the RTF was made up mostly of lawyers and reporters anyway. They can't fix anything to begin with...

I liked it. Greatest Sci-Fi ending ever if you ask me.

Though I do have one question.....

There were 12 Cylon models yes? The final 5 + 7 others?

So how came the Sharon's were model No 8?

Model 7 was a defunct/destroyed line though it appears possible that one number seven fled to the colonies and may well have been Karas father. Model 8 is the replacement, the final five were given model numbers 9-13. Though theses distinctions are purely artificial and are only to give the final five and the skinjobs a mutual reference.

Fairly do's.

Wonder if we'll get the odd TV Movie out of this?

I think it would be quite cool.

They mentioned one - a 2 hour movie from the Cylon perspective-unless I imagined that after half a bottle of wine. You never know.

Caprica looks like cat vomit though.

That would be cool!

Caprica? What is this Caprica you speak of old one?

A coming series prior to the Cylon war. It looks like a soap opera. The original concept was not BSG universe but they added a few links to try to grab some support.

Might not suck entirely.

Just Googled it.....50 years before present day? So a couple of years before the Cylon War, and there are no Cylons?

Or is it 50 years before the original Cylon war?

50 years before the events of BSG, i.e the ten years before the end of the cylon war.

I expect to see a season of 'frankenstein' and ethical debate, a season or two of oppression followed by war with the the final five to turning up around the second half of the final season. Essentially thwe backstory to the matrix but with a long delatyed payback and initial human victory.

Caprica is a 'good idea' marketing wise. create a new show set in Caprica (read present day America) with some SF elements. It should be relatively cheap to produce at least for the first season or two.

However, it concludes PRIOR to the Cylon war. Its been stated no ship bangie bangie just emo.
Unless there's some good "By your command" and the gunfire starts there's no reason to watch this.

I will give it a go. I owe all writers everywhere that much. If it's not to my tastes, then it'll be a pity.

Frazzled wrote:Not Doom...end. Ghostbuck or whatever led them to the end of the cycle.

It was esssentially the end of (Colonial) civilization, too.

I'm kind of mixed on it. I liked the basic idea of the ending. Clearly they're just trading one fight for survival for another. But I understand why they'd choose to look for something simpler in a green place after years of strangeness and tension aboard dilapidated spaceships.

However, I kinda feel that using "God did it all" to explain most of the mysteries is a bit of a copout. I understand the show's religious roots, but I expected a little more of a good writing solution than a heavenly solution.

Starbuck's story/end was unsatisfying, if you ask me. Fine, she was an angel at the end...but was her father the lost Cylon? What IS the deal with the Hendrix song, and why did she know it? Clearly there was something more going on there. Maybe they left it open for the Caprica series, I dunno.

The exact quote was hybrid was "You are the harbinger of death, Kara Thrace. You will lead them all to their end."

According to Moore all the "evil" Cylons were nuked at the base, and after that the drifting ships fell into the black hole, so they are all dead.

As for giving up technology they didn't have that much choice. There were a few things they might have kept but generally after running for years they were low on supplies and the fleet was falling apart with no way of really fixing it. It was only a matter of time before they were out of materials and supplies. Not only that but floating around in cramped space and being killed and hunted probably made being able to work outside and feel the breeze sound pretty good.

As for the mystical parts of I was ok with that considering it always had an element of it to begin with. If you really just hate to think of it in religious terms then consider that old adage of any significantly advanced technology would appear to be magic then you could imagine several sci-fi possibilities. The Centurions they set free evolved over the millenia and from the future set things in motion that would lead to their freedom and to humanities ending of the cycle.

Another complaint I saw was wondering why "God" would put them all through this hell just to get them to Earth and start new, but there are many examples in religious traditions that are similar. The most obvious being the Hebrews wondering the desert for 40 years.

I think the best part was Baltar becoming a farmer.

Frazzled wrote:Not Doom...end. Ghostbuck or whatever led them to the end of the cycle.

I liked it. Cylon vs. Cylon gunbattles..excellent! Not sure why Cavel ate a bullet though-thats not his style.

I particularly liked the Adama's last ride in the raptor-very poignant. On the positive, Helo is now lamish which means he's one of the "Sick, aged, and weak" when the pack hunters come.

Keeping their technology going would have been impossible. You have to rebuild that base of technology. Without the Galactica's abilities they would not have been able to do that. After all the RTF was made up mostly of lawyers and reporters anyway. They can't fix anything to begin with...

Hey, cheater! You said you weren't going to watch anymore episodes!


BTW, they didn't break the cycle. At the end the 'angels' mused that they might break the cycle but everything was set up for it to repeat itself, which is why they showed the clips of the robots at the end. And the Centurions who left on the base ship? I think the point of that was that they could easily go off to create the all Cylon world that would be a new version of the irradiated 'earth' they found this season.

So everything is set up to occur again, but 'maybe' it won't.


As for technology, if they had landed all their ships and salvaged what they could it would have been a tremendous boon. Most important of all would be to keep the computers with their wealth of knowledge of how to build everything. Flying all those computers with their vast knowledge of human history off into the sun was pretty darn preposterous to me.

As was the idea that people would just go off to live by themselves. There is a reason why humans gather into cities and it isn't just because we like each others' company. It is required for survival. I imagine all the BSG crew heading off to build their cabins thinking about how cool it is going to be to have a planet again and then a few months later realizing "what the hell did we do sending all our remaining technology off into the sun?"

Ahtman wrote:
As for giving up technology they didn't have that much choice. There were a few things they might have kept but generally after running for years they were low on supplies and the fleet was falling apart with no way of really fixing it. It was only a matter of time before they were out of materials and supplies. Not only that but floating around in cramped space and being killed and hunted probably made being able to work outside and feel the breeze sound pretty good.

As I said above I don't think it was so much about keeping the ships running but grounding the ships and using whatever manufacturing abilities remained in the fleet to make basic modern necessities. Hell, the steel alone would have been worth keeping. But again, most important would be the information held in the computers. If they weren't trying to just wrap the show up nice and neat there is just no reason they would have abandoned everything like that.

yakface wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Not Doom...end. Ghostbuck or whatever led them to the end of the cycle.

I liked it. Cylon vs. Cylon gunbattles..excellent! Not sure why Cavel ate a bullet though-thats not his style.

I particularly liked the Adama's last ride in the raptor-very poignant. On the positive, Helo is now lamish which means he's one of the "Sick, aged, and weak" when the pack hunters come.

Keeping their technology going would have been impossible. You have to rebuild that base of technology. Without the Galactica's abilities they would not have been able to do that. After all the RTF was made up mostly of lawyers and reporters anyway. They can't fix anything to begin with...

Hey, cheater! You said you weren't going to watch anymore episodes!


BTW, they didn't break the cycle. At the end the 'angels' mused that they might break the cycle but everything was set up for it to repeat itself, which is why they showed the clips of the robots at the end. And the Centurions who left on the base ship? I think the point of that was that they could easily go off to create the all Cylon world that would be a new version of the irradiated 'earth' they found this season.

So everything is set up to occur again, but 'maybe' it won't.


As for technology, if they had landed all their ships and salvaged what they could it would have been a tremendous boon. Most important of all would be to keep the computers with their wealth of knowledge of how to build everything. Flying all those computers with their vast knowledge of human history off into the sun was pretty darn preposterous to me.

As was the idea that people would just go off to live by themselves. There is a reason why humans gather into cities and it isn't just because we like each others' company. It is required for survival. I imagine all the BSG crew heading off to build their cabins thinking about how cool it is going to be to have a planet again and then a few months later realizing "what the hell did we do sending all our remaining technology off into the sun?"

Ahtman wrote:
As for giving up technology they didn't have that much choice. There were a few things they might have kept but generally after running for years they were low on supplies and the fleet was falling apart with no way of really fixing it. It was only a matter of time before they were out of materials and supplies. Not only that but floating around in cramped space and being killed and hunted probably made being able to work outside and feel the breeze sound pretty good.

As I said above I don't think it was so much about keeping the ships running but grounding the ships and using whatever manufacturing abilities remained in the fleet to make basic modern necessities. Hell, the steel alone would have been worth keeping. But again, most important would be the information held in the computers. If they weren't trying to just wrap the show up nice and neat there is just no reason they would have abandoned everything like that.

What you forget is that this is a tv show with a limited amount of time to get a story across, and it is a "fictional story". How realistic and practical do you want a fictional story to be, would an hour of the show showing them come to their decision helped? Sit there listening to the arguements for and against? You can't have a show that covers every "if", "but" or "whatever" it would kill it stone dead. Me, I liked it and yes it did leave a few things unanswered, but a good sci fi show will do that. Hopefully like Tolkien, Star Wars, Star Trek etc, there will be people that fill in that stuff on Wiki, allowing us to get answers to some of questions.

Thats cheaty cheater to you Yakface. What can I say-I'm an addict.

Scrapping the ships for tech wouldn't have worked. They were already running out of monkey power jiuce (Tilium) once thats gone all their systems would be pretty rocks. AThats pretty much the only tech they have remaining.

Medical supplies: limited/finite.
Food/Water: gone (BSG Kaputt)
Manufacturing: Nil. What had gone with BSG which evidently had its own machine shops befitting a long duration carrier.
Anything needing a power source: Kaputt as soon as the tilium ran out.

But I agree, everyone hiking into the wilderness like that is not accurate. Most would have stayed in one area. After all these turkeys are less competent than your average platypus.

I don't think they had enough people and supplies to salvage behemoth starships like that without serious problems. They probably didn't have enough fuel to burn all the surface and structure off, let alone the number of people with the skills to do it. You'd end up with partial skeleton ships sitting in a field and these weren't little ships. You also have to do something with the toxic chemicals used in the ships and I doubt they wanted to create half broken statues to environmental destruction. Some of those ships didn't look like they were designed with atmospheric entry ever in mind anyway.

I also doubt they gave up every single last piece of tech. They probably have pens and kept what medical supplies they could; they just wouldn't last forever. They kept some of the Raptors obliviously, though eventually they would break down and be unrepairable. They probably kept some pistols perhaps as well.

Much of these responses seem less focused on understanding the people and more on thinking what we would want. We would want to keep starships. We would want advanced technology. We aren't that far removed from an agrarian society and don't want to go back so soon. You aren't really thinking like they would. They are having a Walden moment, let them. It is perfectly reasonable to say "I wouldn't have done that" but also recognizing that they are not you.

I liked it a lot overall. And it's been an awesome show for the last 6 or so years. I think they did the best they could with the ending, there's no real way to make it "perfect" but they did a good job with the majority of the loose ends.

I didn't like cavel blowing his head off. Why would he of all people do that? I mean, seriously. Why?

130,000 years later just seemed dumb. I know what they were trying to go with with that but, that's just too long. 5000 maybe, but 130,000? come on...

I don't think everyone would have wandered off. Some would, yes, but not all. Adama woudn't be like "Bye lee, so long and that's for all the fish". But then, when they showed those lines of people walking off together I think it hinted that not everyone went away and isolated themselves, I'm sure they did form towns and stuff like that. And I doubt every one of them abandoned every piece of technology. There's so many stories of people theorizing about space men helping our ancestors do this or that. And we know there's at least a few raptors left. Maybe they'll make "Galactica 1980 II" where someone jumps in a raptor and time warps to 1982 and invents leg warmers. who knows.

I think Caprica will be a decent show, but I have a feeling it won't last. BSG fans will want conflict, not emo kids. The special that's done from the cylon perspective might be cool.

I also hear there is a theatrical movie in development, however it is not related to this series and something all new. If so, it'll suck.

Cavel blew his head off because the actor, Dean Stockwell, thought Cavel would do that when he realized he was frakked.

Daniel was not Kara's father. Moore has said so in his recent paper interview and in the BG podcast. He apologized that it may have been too much of a red herring/distraction.

Kara's transformation was poorly written. It was too long between her realization she was dead to her acceptance of it. Overall, I'm fine with it.

Too bad Hera died as a kid. All of that action, prophecy, pathos and death to keep her alive throughout the series and then a throwaway line in a TV report is cheap to me.

All Along the Watchtower was supposed to represent the power of music and creative thought. I don't buy Moore's explanation, but then there's a lot more I don't buy either.

I still don't get the explanation between the Cylon earth and the final earth. The trip to Kobol would have dispelled all doubts as to whether Cylon earth was earth. I understand that the fleet renamed the final planet Earth, but the similarities between the two planets were too much to be more than a narrative device.

I found the change in Ellen to be too much. She went pretty much from being a drunken, manipulative woman to "I just want to be with you" good person too easily. I guess they had to reward Tigh somehow.

While not at the level of the ending of The Prisoner, I thought the end of BG left many unanswered questions. I don't need everything explained, and the ending was much more upbeat than I thought it would be. Overall, I found it satisfying.

I'm with Yak. The basic knowledge of how to smelt and so on would have given them a huuuuuuge advantage over the natives.

It's pretty ubelievable.
And Wolfstan: I never accept that I have to accept the holes in a story because of the limitations of it's medium. Good writing can tell a story without apologising.

yakface wrote:
As for technology, if they had landed all their ships and salvaged what they could it would have been a tremendous boon. Most important of all would be to keep the computers with their wealth of knowledge of how to build everything. Flying all those computers with their vast knowledge of human history off into the sun was pretty darn preposterous to me.

I concur, while allowing a farewell for Galactica itself made sense abandon ing all high tech equipment made no sense. if they could strip galactica of launch equipment for grav lifts the same equipment could be used to carry coal to a pit head. If nothing else some of the ships should have been parked on the far side of the moon, or if that is too much on one of Jupiters moons. Containing an edited historical database, emphasising the joint effort to establish a colony as a hybrid race. That more than anything would lead the future race to consider that they are part of both cultures, a good incentive to keep the peace if they manage to learn the truth. Finally a disaembled and stored FTL drive or two or three, fusion engines etc would help. this isnt too much to ask for, if you have to build a citivilsation to travel to the moons of Jupiter to get it and would provide an invaluable starter kit for the fledgling Earth space civilisation. Maps to the 123 colonies, old Earth, Kobol and New Caprica would help. all those places would be clean and ready for colonisation now.
Instead we have to rely on the will of the centurions for all this, or worse our own base natures. It would be better if we knew they were out there and sought them out as friends than be left in ignorance. All that is quite independent and non conflictory with Lee Adamas hair brained vision to get back to basics.

I don't think those guys knew how to smelt. It wasn't a functioning culture or technology base. Take some pleasure craft, some freighters, and a WWII era aircarft carrier and drop them into the Pacific. They are chased by the modern US navy for six years and a third don't make it. At the end some of the ships make it to a deserted island.

You won't have a technology. Look at Caprica, they didn't have squat before the Cylons came, and their supplies, people, and capacity were much better there than by the time they limp to earth.

On the flip side, destroying the ships might be a good way to hide in case the vestiges of the Cylons come looking, but I like your idea of the fleet hiding behind the moon, waiting to be discovered. That would have eben a cool ending. A new NASA exploration ship goes to the Moon and discovers the RTF and BSG on the surface of the darkside of the moon. End series / fade to black. Very 2001.

But consider the mindset.

You have just been chased across the Galaxy by what is ultimately your very own technology.

Technology designed to make life earlier annihilated your entire civilisation, and very, very nearly your entire species.

And so having reached peace and tranquility, and seen a world devoid and untouched by the folly of your previous actions, would you really be so quick to embrace the previous lifestyle which ultimately lead to your current situation? Also, consider Roslyn's words, that this single planet held more life on it than the 12 Colonies combined. That would stagger you utterly. Plus, the 13th Tribe, your promised land, went exactly the same way as your own.

I'd turn my back. There are only so many times you can make a mistake, and after the first, it becomes a conscious decision to repeat that mistake...