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Big debate in the Space Wolf rumors thread, let's vote!

One codex per major chapter (5 at the moment, Blue, Green, Red, Black and Grey) or one huge book with the common units and then varient units in the back.

4 books.

Codex: Codex Marines (I just love the redundancy in the name)
Codex: Angels of Death (lists for BA, DA and then Ravenwing and Deathwing)
Codex: Space Wolves (it's a Codex with... Space... Wolves)
Codex: Crusading Marines (Black Templars being the archetype).

That's it.

Test.

Why sell 1 big codex for $30 when they can sell 5 at $25 while at the same time pull the ( please refer to the original SM codex )
for total of $55 ( of course others might be tempted to purchase more than 1 chapter worth of codex )

Lets not forget how easily it is to *fluff up the sub codexs with recycled drawing / bits and pieces
of stories from black library novels.

I would like 1 big codex , but it'll never happen.

This weird.

The front pages says there's 3 replies but I can't see them. I can see Luna's reply in the preview but not on the thread.

Weird.

Anyway yeah, for GW it makes perfect sense to turn 1 successful product into 5 and be guaranteed a marine release every year but it also suck oxygen from other projects when GW keeps returning to the same well again and again.

I do not believe that good ideas are some finite resource that was exhausted when Rogue Trader came out.

I had the same problem Kid, hence my 'test' post. Now it appears to be fixed. I PM'ed Lego about it.

You need more then one dex, because other wise you wont have enough different models to sell. imagine if a a single codex release line consisted of all the marine models available.. Like space wolves using the tactical box rather then the grey hunters box. Much teeth nashing would occur.

I go for the UBER dex.

I'd vote for the seperate dex for the big chapters. Question is of course which chapters are big enough for their own codex books?

Shaman wrote:You need more then one dex, because other wise you wont have enough different models to sell. imagine if a a single codex release line consisted of all the marine models available.. Like space wolves using the tactical box rather then the grey hunters box. Much teeth nashing would occur.

Why does the dex have to be tied to the models?

Hammerziet wrote:Why does the dex have to be tied to the models?

It doesn't. Except in GW world where the codex only exists to sell models.

As for the primary subject I think a consolidated marine codex would be more efficient and better for the game. But I have no wish to read any more drivel about how special the boys in blue are and like to have my BA in a separate dex or back in a redone Angels of Death book.

I like the 4 codex idea, but I think it could probably be two. Codex: Codex (or mostly Codex) Marines and Codex: very non-conformist Marines.

I'm with Dietrich - you need 2.

Codex:Space Marines which has all the basic stuff in, maybe with the usual bias towards Ultramarines and 'design-your-own' rules.

Codex:Astartes which would have variant rules for all the first founding chapters (and their successors) and crusading chapters.

Actually, I think most of the Codex or near-Codex SM armies could in one book. Blood Angels and Dark Angels follow the codex format, just with some extra units and characters. Here's my suggestion (from a similar thread):

BA HQs:
Lemartes (comes with Death Company unit, only way to add DC to army)
Dante (either allows command squads to take jump packs, or just allow codex command squads to take them across the board)
Tycho
Mephisto

DA HQs:
Belail (allows termies as troops, which would open up anyone to do a first company army)
Azrael
Chief Librarian
Chief Chaplain (maybe has a Hunt the Fallen rule - if he drops an enemy HQ in melee, he gets a bonus, extra VPs, etc.)

Since the generic SM captain lets you take bikers as troops, master of the Ravenwing on bike isn't necessary. Could still include him on a jetbike or landspeeder as a special character for cool factor.

I don't think SW and BT are that far apart on the bell-curve of armies. They're both MEQs that generally rely on getting a bunch of bodies across the board. BTs have neophytes in their units in Scout Armor, SWs have neophytes in Power Armor as their own unit (blood claws). that's the big difference. Either include both units as troops, or even just make it a 'pick either Crusader Squads or Grey Hunters and Blood Claws' situation. Rest of the army - terminators, veterans, jump pack troops, bikes, tanks - are pretty much the same.

The reason GW has 5 loyalist SM codex and 1 traitor SM codex is that they sell well. Now, I think there's a bit of a self-fulfilling trend here. GW pushes SM. SM sell well. GW pushes more SM. More SM sells well too! But, GW is a business, and if having 6 flavors of marines lets them make money and stay in business, I'm fine with that. To me, it's like when the FLGS sold Pokemon cards by the truckful. A lot of the veteran gamers didn't like the game or the kids coming in and buying and playing the game, but it paid the rent for about 6 months for the FLGS. If the FLGS makes money, that's good. If it doesn't make money, it goes away.

If GW would put the efforts put into 6 flavors of SM into other armies (Ork, Tau, Ad Mech, etc.), I'd rather see them do that. Because, the difference between Tau and SM is a lot bigger than SM and SW. I don't think it would happen though. I think it'd just be a case of there being 3-4 less Codexes, with nothing to replace it.

Ugh. I don't want BA to turn into a theme army that is "unlocked" by the selection of a character. I would like to have a recognizable BA army without having to have Dante.

I like the separate codex idea, but not like it is now. I'd rather see something more like a small book like the old Craftworld Eldar for each army, that just has some fluff and some pics and the list. And don't do each army as some kind of major release. Do the minidex, put out a few models or conversion kits.. they could easily do a few a year without messing up their regular big-army release schedule, and it doesn't have to just be marines. They could do different craftworlds or chaos legions or whatever. Heck they could do it for fantasy too with all the different Empire armies, etc.

I know, it's too many books, but still I'd rather see everything contained in a separate book than one big one.

LunaHound wrote:Why sell 1 big codex for $30 when they can sell 5 at $25 while at the same time pull the ( please refer to the original SM codex )
for total of $55 ( of course others might be tempted to purchase more than 1 chapter worth of codex )

Who says you have to sell it for only $30?

Just double/triple the size and double/triple the price. That way everything is together in one nice handy tome.

You have one section that describes the major rules that they all follow, ATSKNF, for example. Have one section for all of the wargear. And then several sub sections for the specialist armies, and characters. I still say it worked well for craftworld eldar in 3rd, it could work for Space marines.

GG

Mind you at that point you'd get people complaining "I'm not shelling out that kind of money when I can't use 80% of the book cause I only plau Blue Smurfs" so your going to loose either way!

Druidic wrote:Mind you at that point you'd get people complaining "I'm not shelling out that kind of money when I can't use 80% of the book cause I only plau Blue Smurfs" so your going to loose either way!

That's a good point.....

Well in that case, you could release an "Uber" tome for those who want everything and then also release smaller codex's for people that only want to play one aspect. You would have to release these at the same time though, and the smaller codex's would have to have the same chapter specific rules, as what is in the "uber" tome.

with GW's marketing ability they could really do something like this up in a big way. All they would have to do is update the "uber" tome and little "tomettes" every edition.

GG

H.B.M.C. wrote:4 books.

Codex: Codex Marines (I just love the redundancy in the name)
Codex: Angels of Death (lists for BA, DA and then Ravenwing and Deathwing)
Codex: Space Wolves (it's a Codex with... Space... Wolves)
Codex: Crusading Marines (Black Templars being the archetype).

That's it.

This idea (or something similar) is how I'd like to see it done. I certainly think it's possible and could even be tweaked a bit... Maybe add another 'wild' chapter to go with the Space Wolves (Maybe the pseudo-mongol bikers I'm drawing a blank on right now) and something for the Crusading Marines.

An entire Codex focusing on one sub-chapter seems a bit annoying.

I think the problem with other Space Marines is, that they're all still Space Marines. To justify a new book, an army should get lots of cool neat stuff that only they can get. Like Wulfen and wolf packs for SWs or some sort of whacky flagelant mob in a Black Templar army.

Arschbombe wrote:Ugh. I don't want BA to turn into a theme army that is "unlocked" by the selection of a character. I would like to have a recognizable BA army without having to have Dante.

If GW would devote their time and energy into creating and developing other armies, I'd be content with having all marines in 2-3 codex (including the traitor and renegade forces). The difference between Blood Angels and Ultramarines is a lot less than Blood Angels and Eldar or Genestealer Cults. Marines are elite, shock troops, whatever their color. And nothing would say that Blood Angels would 'have to' field a special character - you can already play BAs with the new SM Codex with some changes to your list. If GW would add Ad Mech, Lost and the Damned, and Genestealer Cult armies to 40k (and redo GKs and SoBs as their own codex, without the inquisitors), I would happily play my Space Wolves as grey marines.

But, GW has let the cat out the bag and SMs of all colors make money. So, I'm not going to worry about it.

No no no, you guys have the wrong idea. GW needs MORE spase marienz (HURR). GW needs to continue the trend of every other codex release being a MEQ release. So we get:

Spase Marienz (Blue)
Spase Marienz with Dresses (Green)
Vampire Spase Marinez (Red)
Werewolf Spase Marinez (Grey)
Crusading Spase Marinez (Black)
Badaab War Spase Marinez (More special characters and rules that break the core V5 mechanics)
Cursed Founding Spase Marinez (More special characters and rules that break the core V5 mechanics)
Inquisitorial Spase Marienz (Deathwatch and Grey Knights)
Women Spase Marienz (Sisters of Battle)
Create Your Own Spase Marienz (New book concept with VDR-esque return of rules like traits!)
Spase Marienz: Tactical Strike (Battle book to accompany the Plastic Thunderhawk)

Also, spaced out in the releases, there should be:

How to Paint Spase Marienz (V5 revision)
The Great Big Book of Spase Marienz (Catalogue)
Spase Marinez Concept Art (Artbook)
Spase Marienz Comics
Spase Marienz Shirts
Spase Marienz Car Bobbleheads
Life-size replica bolter kit

One mega codex can't possibly contain all those money grabbing measures!

Disclaimer: -This post was a joke-

LunaHound wrote:
Why sell 1 big codex for $30 when they can sell 5 at $25

Because the release slots allow for 1 codex at a time. They will release as much stuff / time unit with the bigger codex then they will do with the 5 seperate codici.
In other words:
It isn't a matter of releasing 1 big Marine Codex or 5 Marine Codici, it's a matter of releasing 1 big Marine codex AND 4 other codici OR 5 Marine codici.

In my opinion, the Space Marines should have a single codex, just like everyone else. Failing that, they should give everyone else additional codici as well (Codex: Death Guard etc. for Chaos, Codex: Ulthwe etc. for Eldar). Seeing as they are never going to do this, I'd be way happier to see them releasing one big codex for all of the armies (including Space Marines). That way the Marines will stop hogging all the release slots and other armies might get updates sometime as well.

Codici could look like this:

Unit Selections
Wargear section
Chapter/Craftworld/whatever section 1 (Fluff, Special Rules, Army Roster)
Chapter/Craftworld/whatever section 2 (Fluff, Special Rules, Army Roster)

Especially the Army Roster would be important, as this defines which Unit Selections can actually be taken by which Chapter (and how much points this costs and which weapons they can take). This way, every Chapter/Craftworld can still have a couple of unique units (Death Company f.ex.) or have the same units in different force organisation slots (Assault Marines f.ex.) without having the need to keep releasing Space Marines every time.

Edit: An obvious extra benefit would be that there would never be whining about gear doing different stuff in different codici again! (sigh, Storm Shields)

Airmaniac wrote:

In my opinion, the Space Marines should have a single codex, just like everyone else. Failing that, they should give everyone else additional codici as well (Codex: Death Guard etc. for Chaos, Codex: Ulthwe etc. for Eldar). Seeing as they are never going to do this, I'd be way happier to see them releasing one big codex for all of the armies (including Space Marines). That way the Marines will stop hogging all the release slots and other armies might get updates sometime as well.

I think the model I suggested could be done for every army in 40K.

One "uber" compiled tome and litttle tomettes for people not interested in every flavor. I totally agree that they should go back to special rules for chaos(and eldar) to bring back some of the different flavors that we all enjoyed from 3rd edition.


GG

I like the one giant codex with variants built in, but since a compromise is nearly certain, I would really like it to go the way of HBMC's 3-4 marine chapter types.

1: Normal Codex Marines
2: Deviant Chapters (DA, BA, NAMBLA)
3: First Founding "We cheat" Legions (SW, Templars)
4: Pre-Heresy Legions

I would also appreciate it if they would laminate #'s 3 and 4... just in case.

I'm torn on that one. I like the idea of one book, for simplicities sake. No differences on how many models a vehicle can transport, the effects of a particular weapon, etc.

On the other hand, if they're in the same codex your going to see some HQ choice combinations I'd rather not think about, and special rule combinations that are going to be pretty sick.

Maybe 2 books. One with basic marines, gear, etc. And another one that only has specialty units, that can only be taken with certain specialty HQ's in the same book, to flush out the different chapters. Attach the chapter specials to the HQ, and don't let allow taking an HQ from more than one chapter, and (possibly) no named characters from the main book at that point. The chapter HQ's don't even have to be named. But no taking a SW and a DA captain in the same list.

dancingcricket wrote:On the other hand, if they're in the same codex your going to see some HQ choice combinations I'd rather not think about, and special rule combinations that are going to be pretty sick.

Which is exactly why I suggested to have a single Forces of the Space Marines section, yet have multiple Army Roster sections (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Black Templars, Ultramarines, Space Wolves). People would have to choose which Army Roster to use, so ridiculous Chapter HQ / Special Unit combinations wouldn't be possible.

I want a super Omnibus Codex: Imperium of Mankind.

Which would include The Marines, The Guard, The Navy, The Inquisition, etc.

How about go one step further:

Codex: 40k Armies for the low price of $200 USD (buy 8, get 6 "free"), published annually...