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I had a buddy of mine tell me that if you were to checkerboard units, they would both get cover saves. To me this sounded a little cheesetastic (although I will admit that I used it during the game and thought about it later) and thought I would look it up to find out. While I can't find anything to say it can't be done, he was arguing that the figures could be moved while keeping the formation to give them a permanent cover save... First, my high tech drawing....

xoxoxoxo
oxoxoxox
xoxoxoxo

Something to that extent with x's being one unit and the o's being another unit in formation (assuming that they are within unit cohesion). The only rules I can find to combat this tactic come from rulebook on page 11. One in the subheading of "Models in the Way" and then the first non-bolded section on page 11 as well stating that "once a unit has completed all of its movement, the player selects another unit and moves that one, and so on, until the player has moved all of the units he wishes to move." So you would be able to do this and leave the units stationary, but not more beyond that correct? And just thinking about it, wouldn't it give any unit that x and o are firing at automatic cover saves as they are firing through friendly units and at least 1/2 of the targeted squad should (in theory) be obscured by the other unit (x would obscure o and o would obscure x)?

You can move units that are checkered together provided that you leave enough space between the models of one squad to move the other through and vice-versa. 2" of coherency is plenty for this. It gets a little more awkward with run moves, but as long as the front rank of the back unit is in front of the majority of the front unit, it works.

Personally I like to have 2 units lined up like so next to each other:
xxxxxxoooooo
xxxxxxoooooo
xxxxxxoooooo

And then I just exchange the front ranks like so:
ooooooxxxxxx
xxxxxxoooooo
xxxxxxoooooo

And now they both have 4+ cover saves. I used the following formation for a 3-unit cover extravaganza in 'ard boyz in round 1 at the semis:
oooooo xxxxxx
yyoyoyoyxyxyxyy
oyoyoyoyxyxyxx

He doomed and guided and bladestormed with 2 max units of avengers and merely took out about half a mob.

Yes, it is cheesy. No, you shouldn't use it in casual play. Tournaments are fine.

Ok, your explanation seems a little more plausable assuming that they can move through one another. The only other question is how far the units would be able to move as a straight line will allow for a true 6" movement while zigzaging will lose some of that. How much movement do you normally get with that Culler?

Yes, it is cheesy. No, you shouldn't use it in casual play. Tournaments are fine.

Nope, not always fine at tournaments. Always good to ask a TO about something like that. It's not going to work in some places.

mikhaila wrote:Yes, it is cheesy. No, you shouldn't use it in casual play. Tournaments are fine.

Nope, not always fine at tournaments. Always good to ask a TO about something like that. It's not going to work in some places.

QFT, especially if your tournament uses the INATFAQ.

I didnt even think about looking at the INATFAQ... Thanks for reminding me about that Gwar...

s2ua7 wrote:I didnt even think about looking at the INATFAQ... Thanks for reminding me about that Gwar...

You are most certainly welcome. Ya missed me really didn't ya

Forgot about the INATFAQ since I haven't been to anything that's using it. Good call. Any tournaments that haven't changed the rules of the game it will work. It's a change I agree with, but it's still changing the game.

As for movement, with your formations spaced like so: (- meaning at least an inch of space)

x-x-x-x-x-x-o-o-o-o-o-o-
-o-o-o-o-o-o-x-x-x-x-x-x
-o-o-o-o-o-o-x-x-x-x-x-x

Then they can freely move past each other with no movement lost, because the back ranks are lined up behind the spaces in the front ranks.

Yea, its a valid tactic imho, and no less cheesy than guide doom bladestorm combo lol.

It's a valid though cheeseball tactic due to cover rules manipulation. Some tournies will allow it depending if they use INAT, but if I was your friend in a casual match I'd slap ya upside the head.

Doom, Guide, Bladestorm combo is perfectly valid. 272 pts minimum to make that an effective tactic (382+ is the common) and you can't shoot the next round

yeah,
the best way to stop people using this is to ask them to follow the movement rules.

by RAW you have to move one squad at a time completely before moving the next. This quickly creates problems with squads tripping each other up and getting pulled out of shape. It also takes a long time as your not moving the whole formation as one.

Panic...

yea ya cant shoot next turn .... but oh yea next turn youre 24" away in a wave serpent with a 4+ save lol ... im not saying its cheesy theyre just both very effective strats.

And realistically, it's not hard to nullify either the checkerboard either.

I haven't been to a tourney yet that allows checkerboarding to give both units cover saves. Granted, I didn't get to go to ard boys this year, so I am not sure if they allowed it or not.

Also, things like terrain, tank shocks, run moves, etc all mess up this dirty little trick and tend to make it less than effective...unless you are standing still in a gunline (which is usually doom for your army in and of itself).

Besides, with all of the 4+ cover available in 5th, why even bother with something that will lose you far more friends than it makes, and will kill your sports score even if the tourney allows it. I guarantee that the first tourney I go to that allows it, and an opponent tries to pull it off...guess who I just gave a 1 for sports..not only for using the lame tactic, but also for slowing the game down to try to keep his cover save

Lol, I would never try it in a tournament... I like I said, I tried it once when the player suggested it, but then I started questioning the validity of the tactic and moving said units. I agree, I would prob give an opponent a 1 for using such a tactic... lol....

Anyways, thanks for the good info guys...

I think it all matters what army you are playing. If you are playing SM, than it is cheesy, but if you are playing orks it isn't. There is no way for a horde to make it across the field against 4 leman russ tanks. I use it in casual play and my opponents have never complained. I agree with kill dem, and it is no more cheesy than the eldar psychic combos.

Here's the real answer:

Redeamer anyone? Or possibly any heavy flamer?

Set up all the checkerboards you want.

It's also a 5th rules problem, why would enemy models give cover saves for other enemy models? Would the firers care which ones were hit? (Or even be able to tell where squads ended?) No.

5th cracks me up, you can shoot machine gun style weapons through your own models at space marines with no downside at all, but try and fire a single instant death shot lascannon at an ork through your own models and the effect is reduced by 50%.

???

Panic wrote:yeah,
the best way to stop people using this is to ask them to follow the movement rules.

by RAW you have to move one squad at a time completely before moving the next. This quickly creates problems with squads tripping each other up and getting pulled out of shape. It also takes a long time as your not moving the whole formation as one.

Panic...

This bears repeating.

Also, if it's indeterminate whether you get a Cv4+ or not, it's knocked up to Cv5+.

It's also something to note that such check-board formations were made for Whirlwinds and other cover-ignoring template/blast weapons.

Me, I don't see why people complain about such cover saves: you can always shoot the cover first.

yeah,
This is completely different from a abilities combo!
What would be stupid is for eldar players to not look at the different ways to combine their over priced units!

This is abusing the rule book! this is very far from the cover saves RAI.

It's funny how it's always ork players looking for a way to squeeze advantages like deff rollas rams and this checker pattern!

PAnic...

edit... I can't spell.

Orks even already have a way to get a cover save, just play the forcefield.

the deff rolla isn't an abuse of the rules, it is specifically covered in the codex and FAQ.

yeah,
Your just blowing smoke, the FAQ goes nowhere near the rule abuse of ork players claiming that a Ram is a special kind of TankShock...

Ork FAQ wrote:Q. Can a Deff Rolla affect more than one enemy
unit with a single Tank Shock move?
A. Yes, all of the units Tank Shocked are affected
by the Deff Rolla (roll separately for each unit).

PAnic...

rednekgunner wrote:I think it all matters what army you are playing. If you are playing SM, than it is cheesy, but if you are playing orks it isn't. There is no way for a horde to make it across the field against 4 leman russ tanks.

My KFF Big Mek led orks would beg to differ (with Snikrot Ambushing of course).

Whether I run my Kan wall or my BW list, I have no problem getting my Orks across the field vs. LRBTs

I will say, however, that my Kan Wall Orks really, really hate Hellhounds, Collosi, etc.

rednekgunner wrote:I think it all matters what army you are playing. If you are playing SM, than it is cheesy, but if you are playing orks it isn't. There is no way for a horde to make it across the field against 4 leman russ tanks. I use it in casual play and my opponents have never complained. I agree with kill dem, and it is no more cheesy than the eldar psychic combos.

Hmm, I am absolutely doing something wrong then, as my boyz keep going all the way across the table and krumping things.)
I'll remind them that they can't do that, next game.

mikhaila wrote:Hmm, I am absolutely doing something wrong then, as my boyz keep going all the way across the table and krumping things.)
I'll remind them that they can't do that, next game.

But didn't you get the memo? Orks are totally 3rd tier man... and if you get across the table it's because your opponent isn't playing a proper 5e list!

Sarcasm aside, QFT!

mikhaila wrote:

rednekgunner wrote:I think it all matters what army you are playing. If you are playing SM, than it is cheesy, but if you are playing orks it isn't. There is no way for a horde to make it across the field against 4 leman russ tanks. I use it in casual play and my opponents have never complained. I agree with kill dem, and it is no more cheesy than the eldar psychic combos.

Hmm, I am absolutely doing something wrong then, as my boyz keep going all the way across the table and krumping things.)
I'll remind them that they can't do that, next game.

I am not saying that it isn't possible to make it across the board, but against as many blast weapons that are out there good luck. That is my opinion from my experience. That is also why people take grots as mobile cover.

As far as orks being a 3rd tier army, I have never subscribed to that logic. I think orks are very competitive.

rednekgunner wrote:I think it all matters what army you are playing. If you are playing SM, than it is cheesy, but if you are playing orks it isn't. There is no way for a horde to make it across the field against 4 leman russ tanks. I use it in casual play and my opponents have never complained. I agree with kill dem, and it is no more cheesy than the eldar psychic combos.

I am not saying that it isn't possible to make it across the board, but against as many blast weapons that are out there good luck. That is my opinion from my experience. That is also why people take grots as mobile cover.

As far as orks being a 3rd tier army, I have never subscribed to that logic. I think orks are very competitive.

Perhaps the reason you're horde orks can't fight an army w/ blast weapons, is because you keep putting them in a silly checkerboard formation so that the shots hits 6 or 7 boyz unless it rolls Boxcars for stray. Seriously, 2 ork mobs in one area just calls to templates. Imo, if you find yourself or an opponent reverting to this kind of tactic, it would be best to either talk to your opponent about ways to play a better 40k game, or search around on this wonderful forum for tactics pertaining to your army.

I did this at an Ard' Boys last year with Jump infantry. It worked, got me to the semi-finals but needless to say i didn't make any friends that day.

Technically, this is legit, I have a friend of mine who actually runs this with Assault Marines (which gets rid of the movement problem). RAW is abuse, but legal. RAI never, but we don't have a Rule(s as intended) book.

Of course, flank and kill, problem solved.



EDIT: I can't fething type....

If your one of your "strategies" includes checkerboarding your units then you should probably reexamine your ability to play the game.


It's not a really good Idea to do at a ALL.


Checker boarding your units in a game are a good way to lose to units at once with a an assault / Template/ ETC...

It's just stupid.