Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well since I saw five different codex update threads for things like eldar, CSM, and Tau I decided to be original and start one myself!
So what do you think GW should do to if(when) they update the codex?
I think
Deamon Hunters
A: Plastic Grey Knights models. Please for the love of (state chosen diety) give one of the most BA marine chapters out there some love and make em plastic!
B: Greater differentiation between the Radicals and the Puritans. Ok so if you want to play a radical iquisitor what do you get? daemon hosts at the cost of grey knights and thats it. GW should make it so that when you play radical you go reeeeaaaallllly radical. In fluff Radical Deamon hunters use deamon weapons, have forrbidden lore, use daemon hosts and, heck, foster cults to help them fight chaos. Please Represent this in the game. Allow a player who has gone radical have deamon weapons, get abilities based on knowledge of forbidden lore, and heck mabey allow somthing like cultists or bound deamons and things like that to replace the loss of grey knights and (potentially) some of the more puritan types of wargear.
C: Heavy Supportlease give them something other than a landraider and orbital bombardments!
D: Plastice Inquisitor w/ Retuine: Make it a bit like the new Guard command squad and I will definatly buy it.

Ok on to Witch Hunters
A: make the whole sister of battle range plastic. That is a whole lot of metal models you have to buy to play sisters, please make it not kill our wallet (as bad) in the process.
B: Greater differentiation between Radicals and Puritans: Ok I am psyker therfore no sisters of battle?....WTF! If thats the case make them reeeeaaaallly evil. Im talking about mutant squads to replace the loss of sisters and mabey wargear thats going to boost the iquisitors psychic powers to massive levels. HECK mabey allow the use of unbound psykers (we are talking about a radical.)
C: Plastic Inquisitor W/ Retuine: Mabey make a dual box that does Deamon hunters and Witch hunters?
D: make crazy sisters with giant chainsaws (i don't remember thier name) a bit more survivable on their way to cc.

All together: Make the allies system make sense! Ok no space marines with grey knights or sisters but you can be marines and take sisters and grey knights?....huh?

So those are my ideas (I would love to read everyone elses.) I guess one of the big things that is needed is MAKE EVERYTHING PLASTIC!!!!!
......Ok im done

Combine the Codices into a single codex. Allow the entire inquisition to fight together. Exorcist+ Grey Knights FTW.

Anyways here are the specifics since I've been looking into both armies to do a combined force:

Daemonhunters:
- Redo the Daemon rules. Grey Knights fight all kinds of chaos. The rules barely work and most stuff is useless currently. Useless and very specific instances go into the same category for me.
- Don't change the GK models. They have some of the best models. The price between plastic and metal is none existent anymore. I hate painting metal but I don't want to risk losing the sweetest models for plastic.
- Redo Holocaust and the other psychic powers. Holocaust should be much more powerful but also drain a squad after it's use. This comes from reading the Grey Knights Omnibus and how it works there.
- More special Characters - then again that seems to be the basics of updating a codex these days.
- More tank killing. Dreadnaughts should be redone for this or something similar. There's no meltas anywhere except on Dreadnaughts and Stormtroopers.
- Give them dedicated transports they can take!

Witchhunters
- Change the Exorcist model. What am I driving a damn organ into battle? I'll kill you softly with my horrid gothic music!
- I hate the sisters models. Give me different heads. I want ponytails and hot girls with big swords.
- The psychic powers are cool - keep them or change them only a little bit.

For both armies:
- Updated the dedicated transports as such.
- I expect an overhaul in the overall army rules.
- Bring points in line with he other armies and update the wargear to come in line with the normal space marine codex.

That's all off the top of my head. I'll come up with more later on after I think about it more.

Should GW? No, because if they do, we'll lose all the Inquisition stuff and simply be left with Codex: Sisters and Codex: Grey Knights.

Other than an update to make the codex current, and maybe a general CC boost overall, I don't think there is much that NEEDS to be done.

I'd like 50 point chimeras, preferably ones I can put sisters in as well as inquisition, but at the same time, I'd like to keep their psychic hoods the same; don't nerf them like SM hoods. If you have to, make it a different item with different rules. These are the people who are trained specifically to hunt psykers and daemons. Why do the Puppies have more psyker related stuff than they do? Honestly, I think the allies rules make a decent amount of sense as is, if anything, I would say to rewrite the books in such a way that all Imperium codices have the rules listed in them for all armies, that way there are no strange issues like daemonhunters not saying anything about witch hunters.

On the other hand, codex creep is like inflation, you have to keep up with the times, so while I'm here, Sisters need to be fearless and have a faith power that gives them fnp, Grey Knights (GKPA and GKT) should cost half as much and include a special weapon for free.

My biggest fear is that Grey Knights will become 1 Psycannon at 5 men and 2 and 10-men. That would be horrible given how expensive they are.

I thought your biggest fear was that the'y sweep away all the cool Inquisition bits from Codex 'Grey Knights'.

Personly, Id be happy if theyd just stuck out a simple PDF that updates points costs, changes/removes obselete wargear/special rules and maybe fixes a few of the most glaring units (Sister Repenta, Priests etc), added Zealots and clarified the allie rules.

What Id really like for C:WH:
All plastic sisters
Points drop (big one for Inq/Echlarcy stuff, smaller for sisters)
More intersting stuff along the lines of Zealots
Much stronger Inqs, they should be better in CC, and have better powers
Make none-HFlamer Immolater viable
Give the cannoness WS5, drop both cannoness and paltine points

For CH:
Plastic GK
Points drop Inq stuff
Points and stat increases for GK (they should be the best and most expensive basic troops in the game)
Better radical options
Give the HS squads a anti-tank weapon
Give the FA squads a veil of darkness like rule
Add a GK Libby

George Spiggott wrote:I thought your biggest fear was that the'y sweep away all the cool Inquisition bits from Codex 'Grey Knights'.

That's a given.

My fear about Psycannons is my biggest fear for what will remain, which will just be GK's + Generic Inquisitor w/Generic Retinue.

Please don't change my Witch Hunter Codex. I like it.

And what's with the hate on the Sisters models? Those are some damn fine models and some of the best in the 40k range, in my opinion.

Everyone just wants them to be plastic. Can't see why to be honest. It's not like they'll get any cheaper, they don't have a lot in the way of options (and, if anything, come a new Codex they'll have even LESS options than they do now) and you basically have all the models you'd need anyway.

Maybe it's the weight? Who knows...

no, they should do away with them all together.
the allies rules that these guys bring is annoying and over the top.

I just don't like the heads on the sisters of battle. Maybe give me more head options?

Points are the major thing that needs updated and give them the same gear everyone else gets. Same SS and TH rules for GKTs. The Psychic Powers and special Daemon rules definitely need updating. The Exorcist just looks weird to me. The FW one looks amazing. Maybe a combination of the two would work out for me. Guess I should start bashing the kits.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Everyone just wants them to be plastic. Can't see why to be honest. It's not like they'll get any cheaper, they don't have a lot in the way of options (and, if anything, come a new Codex they'll have even LESS options than they do now) and you basically have all the models you'd need anyway.

Maybe it's the weight? Who knows...

Rule number 1: unless you are looking at a bolter round to the face NEVER comment on a sister of battles weight .........

I do think that that grey knights should have better stats and cost more points. They are the best of the best of the best so they should act like it

*reads topic question*


With FIRE!!!!! YEAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!

WRRRRRYYYYYYYYYY!!!!

im all for combining them all into one super codex. hell even adding xeno hunters would be agreeable.

1. allies rules need a crap load of work
2. radical wargear or something to makie it worh my while (Sure GW, ill drop my entire uberdeath marine army to take 1 mediocre elite choice? why?)

3. to me, metal models are a pain in the posterior to convert and put togther. plastic opens possiblities

4. the fact that an Ig comand squad has better equipment than the Freakin inquestion is just sad... they are the best of the best right?

Altanis wrote:I do think that that grey knights should have better stats and cost more points. They are the best of the best of the best so they should act like it

Cost more? They've got a 50 point Veteran Sergeant who has 1 Wound. They cost 25 points each themselves and only have A1.

Make the Jusicar 35-40 points, and bump all their attacks up by 1. And give the Grand Master WS6 or 7. Right now regular Marines are better in HTH than he is.

Black Antelope wrote:

For C: DH:
Plastic GK

Add a GK Libby

No. No, no, no, no, no, NO!

They should all have psychic powers and there should NEVER be a librarian EVER. That would make them space marines, (like we need any other affixiation to make them more similar in the first place)


Ideally speaking, DH and WH need to be lumped with army mixing restrictions into one codex. Guard aspects like stormtroopers should be dedicated to DH inq, and torture-device traitors should be dedicated to WH inq. All of the standard imperial codexes should allow you to use each other as allies, better sisters models, More specific GK metal models (I absolutely love the models, no plastics please. If nothing else, make plastics and keep the metals) Give us more special ICs, we only have two here! give us something to work with!

You're all forgetting who the grey knights are the middle child of, however. They are the space between the Space Marines and the Daemons (ironically.) Prominent Deep Striking, (usually) low numbers, lots of psychic-like abilities, fearless, rounded stats, 3+ armor save, bolters. I think that instead of having more weapons (i.e. SMey things,) they should have more daemoney things. Do the daemons have anti-tank weapons? No! They have abilities that are good anti-tank (Bolt of Tzeentch, Death Strike) I'm thinking, no meltas, but give all squads a psychic power, make more psychic powers, (including anti-tank powers) and up their stats, weapons, something. Hell, make the NFW a power weapon for everyone, +2 str for everyone, 2D6 armor pen. for Justicar and up and Force weapon for BC and Grand Master. Give them one more wound on every model, one more base attack for each unit, +1str and toughness on Terminators and up.

I don't know anything about the sisters, so no advice there.

I have no thoughts on the Sisters, I do not play them, nor do I have the intention of playing them.

For Grey Knights:

Psycannons are awesome. Keep them that way, make them more available to Terminators, perhaps 2 in a squad instead of just 1.

Make psycannon bolts standard issue on ALL Grey Knight bolt weapons. Even on the troops. Might justify point cost a little more.

Give us some Wounds. It is really easy to make a large army that has NO multi-wound models. A little survivability would be nice.

Give them a bonus (again, to help justify points cost) for charging, such as Furious Charge.

A Fast Attack option would be nice. Maybe some bikes or speeders.

Give us some upgrade packs so we don't have to convert Grey Knight Terminators to have Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields.

Give us some weapon options. Cyclone Launchers or some other anti-tank would be nice.

As for going Plastic: Do NOT just make it an upgrade pack. It really needs arms and such as well. Cool backpacks would be nice too. Also, keep all of them wearing helmets (except Stern).

crazypsyko666 wrote:

Black Antelope wrote:

For C: DH:
Plastic GK

Add a GK Libby

No. No, no, no, no, no, NO!

They should all have psychic powers and there should NEVER be a librarian EVER. That would make them space marines, (like we need any other affixiation to make them more similar in the first place)

I didnt mean they had to be called librarians, it was just the easyest way of putting it.

Also, just because they are all psykers, doesnt been some cannot be better psykers than the others. What I was really thinking of was to limit GKBC to small/buff powers, 'helpful' ones if you will, and leave the big flashy destruction ones to either a GKGM or another model with the GKBC statline, but with very powerful powers.

Black Antelope wrote:Also, just because they are all psykers, doesnt been some cannot be better psykers than the others.

Yes, and that's what the Grand Master is - he's a Librarian Captain essentially.

The fact that people don't realize he IS the librarian is reason enough to redo the Grey Knights.

Hi all.
I think they could be collected together into one big codex. And following the 'new style' of force composition theme-ing.

So A GK/SOB HQ Special Character lets you use a pure GK/SOB force.

Where as the Inquisitor HQs/Special charaters let you ally WH-DH units (including some IG units,) and some element of the SOB-GK.

I think if the mixed forces are kept within the confines of the codex they can be ballanced better.

TTFN
Lanrak.

crazypsyko666 wrote:The fact that people don't realize he IS the librarian is reason enough to redo the Grey Knights.

I think most Grey Knight players know that their commander is a psyker, what with the Force Weapon he has and Psychic Powers he can get.

1. Restore Sisters of Battle to a standalone Codex, without any Allies or Inquisitor rules.

2. Rename Daemonhunters "Inquistion". Have Lesser (Guard) and Greater (Marine) Inductees. Limit Allies to Guard and Sisters only.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:The fact that people don't realize he IS the librarian is reason enough to redo the Grey Knights.

I think most Grey Knight players know that their commander is a psyker, what with the Force Weapon he has and Psychic Powers he can get.

Well, yeah. No one else fething does. They need to be the odd place between Eldar, SM and Daemons. That would be awesome. Tons of great assault-style psychic powers, Lots of Deep Striking, 3+ armor save and (hopefully better than) SM stats.

Altanis wrote:
So what do you think GW should do to if(when) they update the codex?

I have to say I'm a bit torn on this subject. I agree with the idea of plastics, if for no other reason than they're easier to work with.

One of my favorite aspects of the current codices is that they allow you to use the "allies" rules to put together a non-standard army list. One idea I played with for awhile was to basically do a "counts as" army with an Inquisitor Lord representing a Lord High Marshall of the IG, then pulling a Vindicare to be an "elite sniper", and Seraphim to represent truly elite shock troopers. The flip side of that is that it allows players with the desire to do so a means to crunch together a truly obscene munchkin army (say, GK's backed up by IG armor and artillery).

As far as GK points costs; they're basically a SM army that can advance at will across the tabletop firing two bolter shots per model every turn and then assault once they're in range (with every model armed with a +2 S power/force weapon). Added to this, every model comes with a built-in psychic hood, and they have some "stealth" protection (not as good as the Tau, granted, but you blow your attack if you fail the roll). In every game where I've seen them used, they seem mostly balanced as is, leaning a bit in favor of the GK's if nothing else, and (despite their fluffiness) I've never seen them face off against Daemons, so I shudder at what they would do to a CD army.

I understand the need to try and create some sort of balancing act between armies, and to try and keep the codices updated for the current rules, but the trend lately seems to be forcing the players into tighter straitjackets of what they can field, with less customization to truly personalize your armies (whatever happened to Chaos Gifts for CSM?). Given the current trend towards generic armies, I would honestly have to say I would prefer they just leave the DH/WH codices as is, warts and all.

I like my sisters book just fine, thank you very much. A rewrite will entail nuking my Book of St. Lucius, which is the best 5 points you can spend on any vet of anyunit. A rewrite will nuke the Faith Point system, which is a fun and characterful way to distinguish SoB from IG in Power armor or Space Marines with Boobs.

The book is old, but the got it right the first time.

jinshiryuu wrote:I would honestly have to say I would prefer they just leave the DH/WH codices as is, warts and all.

NOOO!! please no! i have to play with that damn DH book! WH i cant speak upon, i dont play em and i dont plan on it, (witchhunters are cool but I've got 4 armies already).

I've been playing DH for years now, and nowadays demons kick my ass, badly. They need changes:
1)GK need to cost waay less or get more bang for the buck. maybe 1 more wound for all of em? (i can dream)
2)inquisitors need 4S and 4T, they just die too damn easy, why would demons fear them? you can kill em with water balloons
3)relevant wargear, special rules, psychic powers
4)they should actually be a threat to daemons, maybe grimoires and psybolts standard issue? i liked that idea
5)moar psycannons!
6)NFW give +2 str 2d6 pen and power wep to all gk, that or make em cost less
7)plastic models, easier to convert/personalize, also cheaper $35 for 5 PAGK and $55 for 5 GKT is too much. give em +1W and +1A and furious charge and we'll talk.

The fluff says GK are the best of the best, the most elite. They fight demons FFS, they should reflect that on the table. Especially since when i started i judged armies by how good their fluff made em sound lol.

They should be updated and the allies rule removed.

Altanis wrote:So what do you think GW should do to if(when) they update the codex?

Techboss wrote:They should be updated...

Plastic Models would be good along with a points drop for stormtroopers and grey knights.
Clear up all messed up rules (but please don't change WH and DH force weapons ).
Incooperate new rules and make them more balanced all round.
Give Grey Knights some ranged anti-tank.
Make the difference between radical and puritan very definate.