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Maybe give radical Inquisitors a mawcannon or something? Or a looted carnifex style bound demon?

Rending. Ponies.

Nurglitch wrote:Rending. Ponies.

AGREED! it fits the fluff perfectly.

Norwulf wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:Rending. Ponies.

AGREED! it fits the fluff perfectly.

that's ridiculous. obviously, they should have the Inquisition I on their butt and nemesis unicorn horns. geez, get it right! : )

in all seriousness, this codex is one of the most dated GW still has out. as someone who is just now starting to field an all termie force, i've been looking for something to fill me elite slots and the GK termies fit the bill (hey, when your "standard" trooper is a deathwing termie, your "elite" options are limited). while going over the codex for the first time in 6 years, i was quite suprised that GW didn't choose to make the simple errata/faq additions that would make the codex playable. on less than one page, they could clear up the following with minimal effort and no new models:

teleport homer: uses the 3rd edition template rules, can update to within 6" like the locator beacon but only for teleporting
force weapon/thunder hammer: future proof it by saying "refer to the rulebook"
storm shields/POTMS: refer to the current SM codex
remove references to instability tests and sustained attack

those are just some of the ones i encountered while looking at the options for ONE UNIT! (a GK grand master and retinue) none of this requires any creative work as it just updates the codex to 5th edition and refers to existing work. if they were to do a complete redo, i'd be even happier. lets face it, though; that's not going to happen. except for one entry for apoc IIRC, the inquisition has largely been ignored by GW since 3rd edition. no specific rules in planetstrike, one unit formation in apoc, no pics or references in the galleries for new codicies that i can remember... it seems like GW is unofficially killing them off but not willing to do it officially due to the continuing complaints regarding squats. i fear that the *fill in the blank*hunters will be forgeworld only for new releases (rules and models).

I think that the daemon hunters shuld be made plastic

Needs more Ordo Xenos

I plan to start useing WH in my SM army for CC (no greyknights, to expensive, will kill wallet).

I would want some CC fast attack options. And Valkrieys in there codecs for stormtrooper transports. (I want to use one :( )

For GK fast attack, I read an idea on the B an' C, GK lancers.

Jetbikes. Halbred/lance thingies. Storm Shields. Putting the Knight back in Gray Knights.

I'd combine them all into one book, to make it simpler. And remove any interaction with other codexes, and standardize all equipment that shares a name with another codex. Much of what I'm stating below is based on existing model lines, not wanting to completely remove any options.


Universal Codex Rules:
Grey Knights units - Can all teleport (Deep Strike). Have a 5+ ignore-it save vs. psychic powers. Change 'shrouding' to a -1 to enemy BS when shooting at them.

Sisters - Have 5+ ignore-it versus psychic powers. Make them all stubborn (essentially what those books do now). Keep faith around, but simpler. Maybe something like all sister's bolter shots are rending, they all get a 4+ invul. save.

No 'unlocking' options - you can, as the current design philosophy seems to be, take anything you want. No needing a priest to use a unit.

HQ choices:
Inquisitor Lord - reprice the retinues to make them somewhat competitive. Have a selection of interesting gear that inquisitors can take, including daemon weapons and xenos-tech. Can buy an orbital strike, instead of taking one as a Heavy Support choice (kind of like how a chapter master can do that)
Inquisitor - Cheaper version of above, with less options.

Special Rule - an inquisitor's retinue can be joined by any of the assassin or daemonhost choices. Because, in most of the fluff, the assassins, and even the daemonhost, do travel with the inquisitor.

Grey Knight Grand Master - Looks fairly okay as is.
Canoness - Pretty much what she is now
Deathwatch Captain - Like a marine captain
Deathwatch Librarian - Like a marine libby, but with different psychic powers
Priest - an add-on character, can join other units, doesn't count as HQ slot.

Elite Choices:
Assassin/Death Cult assassin - as before, these are already pretty good. Add the 'Lone Wolf' effect for KPs and they're good to go.
Daemonhosts - make them a specialized type of assassin (so, same concept, but they get the lone-wolf option too)

Celestians - as before, but with a bit more CC punch - preferred enemy, 2 attacks/model, with re-roll to wound (current sarrissa effect, which is a piece of wargear that no one uses)
Grey Knight terminators - pretty much as is
Sisters Repentia - fix them. 2 attacks/model, and fleet, make their save invulnerable, and they'll do okay at their current price tag.
Grey Knight/Deathwatch Dreadnought - He moves to Elite slot, like all other dreads. Gets a drop pod option too.

Troop Choices:
Sisters of Battle - 10-20 sisters, as is, but with option to take a multi-melta or heavy bolter in the unit.
Grey Knights - keep em how they are.
Inquisitional Stormtroopers - drop the cost to 8/model. Good as is otherwise. Keep the 'count as arbites option available for people who want it.
Deathwatch Kill Team - Like the Chapter Approved guys (Marines with some move&shoot heavy bolter options, can take some CC gear.

Dedicated Transport Options:
Rhino - Current pricing model. For Sisters (incl. Celestians, Retributors) , Stormtroopers, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Celestians, Inquisitors
Drop Pods - Current Pricing model. For Deathwatch, Grey Knights (incl. Dreadnoughts)
Razorback - For Deathwatch
Immolator - For Celestians, Retributors
Chimera - for Stormtroopers
Land Raider (or Variants) - For Grey Knight termies (and not inquisitors, cause that always seems silly to me)

Fast Attack
This seems like a weakness in both the current inquisition codexes, with only the seraphim as a real 'fast attack' unit, and some hamfisted forcing of troops into a fast role with GK teleporters and Dominions... Let's change that.

Arco-flagellents - Make these into type 'beast'. Remove the self-destruction rules, let them have some fun.
Seraphim - as they are now.
Death Watch Land Speeder. Because really, this just makes sense. You've got a kill team concept, and a speeder is an appropriate support unit for them.


Heavy Support
Retributors - As they are, but roll the dominions into this as well, so you could take up to 4 meltas or flamers as well.
Exorcist - As is
Grey Knight Land Raider (or variants)
Penitent Engine Squadron - 50 points each, same stats as now.

Special Characters
Throne of Retribution - Keep this around, it's a great model.
Brother Captain Stern - he's fun, sure.
Living Saint - more of the same - maybe let her do something crazy fun like count Sisters Repentia as troops...

add:
Confessor guy (priest with funny hat)
Deathwatch Hero - maybe the librarian from one of the novels.

While the simple approach seems nice, that specific layout seems... a tad on the boring side... I do however believe all 3 Ordos should be on a single =I= codex.

I had an idea for a very fun and not limiting way of pulling off all 3 Ordos with their respective Radical options, giving each a chance of shining with strong units but keeping it balanced by adjusting point costs depending on previous selections:

Certain units (mostly HQ) and their respective configurations will add counters to a certain Ordo.
Certain units (mostly HQ) and their respective configurations will add or remove counters to Purity all the way to negative values (Radical).
You may select ANY unit regardless of Ordo and/or Purity.
You may select ANY equipment regardless of Ordo and/or Purity.
Certain units (better units more so) point's cost will be reduced based on Ordo and/or Purity counters (they are overpriced at first).
Certain equipment (better stuff more so) point's will be reduced based on Ordo and/or Purity counters (they are overpriced at first).
Negative values on Purity (Radical) do not increase point cost when they are subtracted and viceversa.
Ordo Counter ranges go from 0 to 5.
Purity/Radical ranges go from (Radcial) -5 to 0 to 5 (Puritan)

Examples (point prices are hypothetical as are the discounts):

Army 1:
----------

HQ
- Pure Neutral Inquisitor [+1 Counter to each Ordo] [+1 Counter to Purity]
- Grey Knight Grand Master [+3 Counter to Malleus] [+3 Counter to Purity]

Troops
- DeathWatch Kill team [16 points per Marine minus 1 per Xenos counter and minus 1 if positive Purity]

Elite
- Grey Knight Terminator [30 points per GKT minus 2 per Malleus counter and minus 1 per Purity]

As one can see, the Kill team will be rather costly, however their specific role may very well make up for their cost.
In comparison, due to the big investment that the Grand Master represents, GK Termies become quite affordable


Army 2
---------

HQ
- Radical Hereticus Inquisitor [+2 Hereticus] [-1 Purity]
- Xenotech Mechanicus [+3 Xenos] [-2 Purity]

Troops
- Repentia Squad [20 points Minus 5 if Hereticus counters over 3 and minus 1 per Radical]
Using Holy Saint power sword [20 points minus 1 per Purity]

Elites
- Xenos Hybris [40 Points per model minus 3 per Xenos and minus 1 per Radical]


This Army goes to the Radical end, and uses an Equiped Inquisitor to make him Radical and Hereticus granting them counters, the big investment in the Xenotech Mechanicus (yeah I made it up but it sounds awesome) allows for decent priced Xenos Hybris.

Something Interesing to note, the user here wanted the holy saint power sword to deal with a threat, however due to him not having purity counters, the weapon was quite costly.


In conclusion:
The whole system not only serves to make a good fluffy army while allowing for total(ish) freedom, it also somewhat limits the so called powered builds due to price spikes if you wanted to take a deamon laz0r and badass holier than thou grey knights...

Red beard has a good idea mostly since my grey knights can now be taken in a RHINO and stop getting picked off one by one until they get into CC. Even if they were all able to DS i would be happy at least this i wouldnt spend two rounds of punishing fire to get around the field and finally CC. I know i should utilize cover better but sometimes cover just isnt in the right areas for me to take advantage of. At least with DSing I take my opponent by suprise and am able to kill a squad or two beforehaving to move in for the kill

Redbeard wrote:I'd combine them all into one book, to make it simpler. And remove any interaction with other codexes, and standardize all equipment that shares a name with another codex. Much of what I'm stating below is based on existing model lines, not wanting to completely remove any options.


Universal Codex Rules:
Grey Knights units - Can all teleport (Deep Strike). Have a 5+ ignore-it save vs. psychic powers. Change 'shrouding' to a -1 to enemy BS when shooting at them.

Sisters - Have 5+ ignore-it versus psychic powers. Make them all stubborn (essentially what those books do now). Keep faith around, but simpler. Maybe something like all sister's bolter shots are rending, they all get a 4+ invul. save.

No 'unlocking' options - you can, as the current design philosophy seems to be, take anything you want. No needing a priest to use a unit.

HQ choices:
Inquisitor Lord - reprice the retinues to make them somewhat competitive. Have a selection of interesting gear that inquisitors can take, including daemon weapons and xenos-tech. Can buy an orbital strike, instead of taking one as a Heavy Support choice (kind of like how a chapter master can do that)
Inquisitor - Cheaper version of above, with less options.

Special Rule - an inquisitor's retinue can be joined by any of the assassin or daemonhost choices. Because, in most of the fluff, the assassins, and even the daemonhost, do travel with the inquisitor.

Grey Knight Grand Master - Looks fairly okay as is.
Canoness - Pretty much what she is now
Deathwatch Captain - Like a marine captain
Deathwatch Librarian - Like a marine libby, but with different psychic powers
Priest - an add-on character, can join other units, doesn't count as HQ slot.

Elite Choices:
Assassin/Death Cult assassin - as before, these are already pretty good. Add the 'Lone Wolf' effect for KPs and they're good to go.
Daemonhosts - make them a specialized type of assassin (so, same concept, but they get the lone-wolf option too)

Celestians - as before, but with a bit more CC punch - preferred enemy, 2 attacks/model, with re-roll to wound (current sarrissa effect, which is a piece of wargear that no one uses)
Grey Knight terminators - pretty much as is
Sisters Repentia - fix them. 2 attacks/model, and fleet, make their save invulnerable, and they'll do okay at their current price tag.
Grey Knight/Deathwatch Dreadnought - He moves to Elite slot, like all other dreads. Gets a drop pod option too.

Troop Choices:
Sisters of Battle - 10-20 sisters, as is, but with option to take a multi-melta or heavy bolter in the unit.
Grey Knights - keep em how they are.
Inquisitional Stormtroopers - drop the cost to 8/model. Good as is otherwise. Keep the 'count as arbites option available for people who want it.
Deathwatch Kill Team - Like the Chapter Approved guys (Marines with some move&shoot heavy bolter options, can take some CC gear.

Dedicated Transport Options:
Rhino - Current pricing model. For Sisters (incl. Celestians, Retributors) , Stormtroopers, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Celestians, Inquisitors
Drop Pods - Current Pricing model. For Deathwatch, Grey Knights (incl. Dreadnoughts)
Razorback - For Deathwatch
Immolator - For Celestians, Retributors
Chimera - for Stormtroopers
Land Raider (or Variants) - For Grey Knight termies (and not inquisitors, cause that always seems silly to me)

Fast Attack
This seems like a weakness in both the current inquisition codexes, with only the seraphim as a real 'fast attack' unit, and some hamfisted forcing of troops into a fast role with GK teleporters and Dominions... Let's change that.

Arco-flagellents - Make these into type 'beast'. Remove the self-destruction rules, let them have some fun.
Seraphim - as they are now.
Death Watch Land Speeder. Because really, this just makes sense. You've got a kill team concept, and a speeder is an appropriate support unit for them.


Heavy Support
Retributors - As they are, but roll the dominions into this as well, so you could take up to 4 meltas or flamers as well.
Exorcist - As is
Grey Knight Land Raider (or variants)
Penitent Engine Squadron - 50 points each, same stats as now.

Special Characters
Throne of Retribution - Keep this around, it's a great model.
Brother Captain Stern - he's fun, sure.
Living Saint - more of the same - maybe let her do something crazy fun like count Sisters Repentia as troops...

add:
Confessor guy (priest with funny hat)
Deathwatch Hero - maybe the librarian from one of the novels.

I agree with most of this, but here's some of the things I'd do differently (or add, or agree with you and not realize it)

GK GM needs to be more survivable. I also agree with letting them all deepstrike in. Also, more grey knights psychic powers, better non-standard imperium anti-tank. I said 2D6 armor penetration for the Justicar earlier, and I still think it's a good idea. 6str+2D6 armor pen= 18 armor pen maximum. I don't know, but maybe give all of the standard GKs NFW power weapons? It may be a little overpowering, I don't know. I was also thinking I5, but that also may be too much. The problem with GK is that there isn't enough anti-tank in the current codex, and there should be answers to this. Also, they're expensive and fragile. Rather than giving them tons of wounds and saves, I propose giving them I5, to give them a higher chance of hitting first.

Alright, on to the Death Watch.... I don't think they should have a libby. Say what you want about fluff, but we already have the grey knights for that. I think they should be SM with alien weapons and things like infiltrate and outflank. They're supposed to be the silent hunters using alien weaponry against them.

I think that the Sisters should be the more hordey of the three, with crazy zealous abilities, fragility, and big guns.

Lastly, ICs. There are lots of ideas untapped with the concept of radicals and puritans. There are also ideas of mono-INQ branch armies, such as a mono-SB hero, a mono-Deathwatch hero, a mon-GK hero, etc. Also, if you are to just have a captain or leader of a certain military arm, then you may only have units of that army, and they should be allowed to mix (such as a GK BC will only be allowed to have GK in their army, a DW captain will only be allowed to command DW, but if you have one from DW and one from GK, you can have GK and deathwatch, etc.) whereas an INQ should be able to take any number of all of them, including assassins and the inquisitorial stormtroopers you didn't put in (which are important, they fill the spot of cheap suicide squads with heavy weapons.)

I am against the idea of GKs in drop pods and rhinos, instead they should get a somewhat more reliable version of DS. Maybe D6+D3 pen? i dunno.

Deathwatch should have fast vehicles, but not heavy vehicles. No DW predators or vindicators. In fact, NO vindicators or predators IMO. No heavy weapon vehicles other than GK dreads and landraiders and sisters heavy vehicles.

I agree with the allies. The combination of the three forces should allow them to fill in all of the gaps necessary, though I think they should be made to be able to survive as a mono-force.

INQ's should have INQ only units, but should not have as much battlefield presence as the captains of the armed forces.

That's all I've got so far. What does dakka think?

crazypsyko666 wrote:
GK GM needs to be more survivable.

More survivable than what? He's a marine in terminator armour, with bonus protection versus psychic powers. What sort of more protection does he need (or makes sense, given that he is just a marine).

Also, more grey knights psychic powers, better non-standard imperium anti-tank. I said 2D6 armor penetration for the Justicar earlier, and I still think it's a good idea. 6str+2D6 armor pen= 18 armor pen maximum.

I disagree here. See, by doing a combined inquisition army, you don't have to do things that make little sense in the fluff for any particular army. Grey Knights fight daemons. They're not running around shooting down tanks or even really facing off against traitor marines. They're used against daemonic incursions. It doesn't make sense for the Grey Knights to be fielding heavy anti-tank weapons. If you want to play a competitive inquisition army, you can use the deathwatch or sister's to handle the anti-tank. If you want to play pure Grey Knights, well, tanks should be a weakness. It's like playing all-khorne or all-nurgle chaos daemon armies.

I don't know, but maybe give all of the standard GKs NFW power weapons? It may be a little overpowering, I don't know. I was also thinking I5, but that also may be too much.

These are both too much.

The problem with GK is that there isn't enough anti-tank in the current codex, and there should be answers to this. Also, they're expensive and fragile. Rather than giving them tons of wounds and saves, I propose giving them I5, to give them a higher chance of hitting first.

But that doesn't make sense. The key is to think about it from an over-all perspective. The Inquisition can field stormtroopers, for cheap troops, and sisters, for fairly cheap troops. Grey Knights are elite. They have good equipment, but they shouldn't be buffed any more than they already are. I5 - no, they're marines. Marines trained to fight daemons and given the weapons to do so, but still just marines.

Alright, on to the Death Watch.... I don't think they should have a libby. Say what you want about fluff, but we already have the grey knights for that. I think they should be SM with alien weapons and things like infiltrate and outflank. They're supposed to be the silent hunters using alien weaponry against them.

I was thinking about that. Maybe having a Deathwatch Librarian as a special character - because they are there in the fluff - but making the captain the deathwatch HQ option.

Lastly, ICs. There are lots of ideas untapped with the concept of radicals and puritans.

Sure, but they don't follow the current GW design philosophy of not restricting people's choices in this way. Current GW design allows Slaanesh Daemon Princes to lead armies of Khorne Berserkers, or catachan heros in Cadian armies. I see no reason why the choice between radical and puritan (and all the gradients in between) needs to have rules governing it. Leave that up to the player's imagination, and keep the army design rules simple.

i'm still hoping for the one page erratta updating the rules to 5th edition... anything after that is gravy.

Well, Redbeard, my original idea was that the armies would only combine if you had HQs that would allow that, I mean, when would you ever see a Deathwatch captain leading GK? I want each of these armies to be able to stand alone as a single army, but be allowed to be fielded as a single army in a single codex, which is why I wanted the GK to have SOME anti-tank, hell, I'd be fine if it was JUST the Justicars and above with the extra armor pen. Power weapons standard is a bit of a stretch, I agree. It sets the game off-balance. Rather than just giving them I5, maybe +1 to I on the charge? This way if they don't charge they don't get it, and it isn't completely unfair.

Our ideas for the =I= codex seem to lead in different directions, you seem to want everyone to field all three kinds of forces in their armies, I want them each to be able to stand alone, and allow them to mix and match, including armies of all three branches of the inquisition. I don't want people to feel like they need to buy a bunch of new models to keep up because their older sisters army or grey knights army hasn't been updated enough to keep up with the metagame. (I'm not saying they can't, I just don't want them to need to mix and match. I actually think running an inq army with three different kinds of armies would be really, really fun, but there will always be people who want to play just one, so I think they should be able to.

You know what? I just looked at the GM, and remembered it has 3 wounds. I take back everything I have said about it being fragile.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, to allow you to use any of them if you want, I was thinking a cheap inquisitor HQ (that won't take up a slot, ala BT perhaps) could allow you to take just about anything in your army.

crazypsyko666 wrote:I want each of these armies to be able to stand alone as a single army, but be allowed to be fielded as a single army in a single codex, which is why I wanted the GK to have SOME anti-tank...

They have some anti-tank. Lascannons on dreads and land raiders.

Our ideas for the =I= codex seem to lead in different directions, you seem to want everyone to field all three kinds of forces in their armies, I want them each to be able to stand alone, and allow them to mix and match, including armies of all three branches of the inquisition.

No, I want them to be able to do whatever they want, whether that be a mixed force or a single-branch. But if you're going to make suggestions for the future, you do need to pay some attention to the general design principles of 5th ed. One of these is that restrictions on what can be fielded with whatever else is not happening anymore. 5th ed codexes have all been designed in such a way that it is up to the player to decide what to field, whether it makes sense or not. Why would a Lord of Change lead a bunch of plaguebearers? Who cares, it's 5th ed.

If a player wants to restrict themselves to a smaller subset of a codex, that's fine, but it might not end up being a balanced force. That's fine too - and it's how the other 5th ed codexes have been designed. Rather than try to fight this, just roll with it. I'd rather see the unit choices make sense than to try and push a square peg (in this case, extra anti-tank for grey knights) into a round hole (the Grey Knights being an army that fights against daemonic incursions, and therefore being focused on anti-infantry).

It's just like playing Daemons. If you want a competitive tournament army, you mix and match units from all the gods. If you want to play a fluffy mono-god list, you can do so, but you accept the limitations of that god.

I don't want people to feel like they need to buy a bunch of new models to keep up because their older sisters army or grey knights army hasn't been updated enough to keep up with the metagame. (I'm not saying they can't, I just don't want them to need to mix and match. I actually think running an inq army with three different kinds of armies would be really, really fun, but there will always be people who want to play just one, so I think they should be able to.

You know what? I just looked at the GM, and remembered it has 3 wounds. I take back everything I have said about it being fragile.

Alright, you've proved your point, and I agree with most of your points. I haven't been around long enough to see a change in the editions, so I wouldn't know how it was earlier. I think we should just agree that we have a difference of opinion, and that it's okay.

i could easily see an ork type of codex in that your choice of HQ determines what gets changed to troops for you. take a canoness or hereticus inquis lord? your SOB squads are troops. got a grey knight hero or malleus inquisitor? your vanilla grey knights are troops. and everyone keeps stormtroopers as troops.

No comments on the idea I posted? Seriously, its a really good solution to some of the problems you have posted.

Hmmm, that would definitley make things interesting, warboss. What would happen to the current codex elites then? would it just be a scaling system (for lack of a better term) where the regular elites disappear, and the troops become the elites until the army-specific HQ shows up?

Dakkadood, it seems a little complicated, could you try to explain it more clearly?

Dakkadood wrote:No comments on the idea I posted? Seriously, its a really good solution to some of the problems you have posted.

anytime you have two different point costs for a single unit/choice is a bad thing in my book. it's hard enough for some players to do the simple math involved in getting an army list done right. if you start throwing in IF-THEN statements instead of simple point costs, you'll really see some screwed up lists.

crazypsyko666 wrote:Hmmm, that would definitley make things interesting, warboss. What would happen to the current codex elites then? would it just be a scaling system (for lack of a better term) where the regular elites disappear, and the troops become the elites until the army-specific HQ shows up?

it would be like the current ork codex or the previous chaos one in which your choice of wargear or type of HQ you have would change the slot taken by a certain unit. got a khorne lord? your bezerkers are now troops. as stated above, this goes against the current design trends favored by GW so i doubt we'll see that again soon.

In simple terms:

Using an HQ from a certain Ordo will reduce point cost of units from said Ordo.

Same applies for Puritan/Radical.

Ahhh, that makes alot more sense. Could you elaborate?

Redbeard wrote:I'd combine them all into one book, to make it simpler. And remove any interaction with other codexes, and standardize all equipment that shares a name with another codex. Much of what I'm stating below is based on existing model lines, not wanting to completely remove any options.

I agree, although I don't know what you mean by "remove any interaction with other codices."

I think they should be able to be taken as allies by any SM chapter & IG

rogueeyes wrote:Combine the Codices into a single codex. Allow the entire inquisition to fight together. Exorcist+ Grey Knights FTW.

Anyways here are the specifics since I've been looking into both armies to do a combined force:

Daemonhunters:
- Redo the Daemon rules. Grey Knights fight all kinds of chaos. The rules barely work and most stuff is useless currently. Useless and very specific instances go into the same category for me.
- Don't change the GK models. They have some of the best models. The price between plastic and metal is none existent anymore. I hate painting metal but I don't want to risk losing the sweetest models for plastic.
- Redo Holocaust and the other psychic powers. Holocaust should be much more powerful but also drain a squad after it's use. This comes from reading the Grey Knights Omnibus and how it works there.
- More special Characters - then again that seems to be the basics of updating a codex these days.
- More tank killing. Dreadnaughts should be redone for this or something similar. There's no meltas anywhere except on Dreadnaughts and Stormtroopers.
- Give them dedicated transports they can take!

Witchhunters
- Change the Exorcist model. What am I driving a damn organ into battle? I'll kill you softly with my horrid gothic music!
- I hate the sisters models. Give me different heads. I want ponytails and hot girls with big swords.
- The psychic powers are cool - keep them or change them only a little bit.

For both armies:
- Updated the dedicated transports as such.
- I expect an overhaul in the overall army rules.
- Bring points in line with he other armies and update the wargear to come in line with the normal space marine codex.

That's all off the top of my head. I'll come up with more later on after I think about it more.

I like the organ gun, its way better than the forge world piece of crap. Also, They are supposed to be fanatical Nuns. Not baywatch models in armor. I dont mind making them sexier just keep it to the fluff. I think they need to redo the Saint celestine to more DOW soulstorm style. The angels wings look way better.

This is just me, but I wish there was a usable model for the emperor in 40k. I know hes entombed in his throne, and in a comma from a wound by betrayal. I know it wouldn't be fluff wise, but I am thinking of like an uber dreadnought 14 all around with like shields psycanons. Even have it to where he can be mounted on a titan for apoc. games. It would just plain rock. Even though it wouldnt make sense.

Gold tooth Jerry wrote:

rogueeyes wrote:Combine the Codices into a single codex. Allow the entire inquisition to fight together. Exorcist+ Grey Knights FTW.

Anyways here are the specifics since I've been looking into both armies to do a combined force:

Daemonhunters:
- Redo the Daemon rules. Grey Knights fight all kinds of chaos. The rules barely work and most stuff is useless currently. Useless and very specific instances go into the same category for me.
- Don't change the GK models. They have some of the best models. The price between plastic and metal is none existent anymore. I hate painting metal but I don't want to risk losing the sweetest models for plastic.
- Redo Holocaust and the other psychic powers. Holocaust should be much more powerful but also drain a squad after it's use. This comes from reading the Grey Knights Omnibus and how it works there.
- More special Characters - then again that seems to be the basics of updating a codex these days.
- More tank killing. Dreadnaughts should be redone for this or something similar. There's no meltas anywhere except on Dreadnaughts and Stormtroopers.
- Give them dedicated transports they can take!

Witchhunters
- Change the Exorcist model. What am I driving a damn organ into battle? I'll kill you softly with my horrid gothic music!
- I hate the sisters models. Give me different heads. I want ponytails and hot girls with big swords.
- The psychic powers are cool - keep them or change them only a little bit.

For both armies:
- Updated the dedicated transports as such.
- I expect an overhaul in the overall army rules.
- Bring points in line with he other armies and update the wargear to come in line with the normal space marine codex.

That's all off the top of my head. I'll come up with more later on after I think about it more.

I like the organ gun, its way better than the forge world piece of crap. Also, They are supposed to be fanatical Nuns. Not baywatch models in armor. I dont mind making them sexier just keep it to the fluff. I think they need to redo the Saint celestine to more DOW soulstorm style. The angels wings look way better.

This is just me, but I wish there was a usable model for the emperor in 40k. I know hes entombed in his throne, and in a comma from a wound by betrayal. I know it wouldn't be fluff wise, but I am thinking of like an uber dreadnought 14 all around with like shields psycanons. Even have it to where he can be mounted on a titan for apoc. games. It would just plain rock. Even though it wouldnt make sense.

like a bipedal golden throne?

yeah kind of like the one that the inquisitor uses, cant remeber name but hes special HQ. Except this one would be amazing probably 500 or 1000 points with crazy stats.

I mean its the emperor.

"Karamazov" or somesuch

We need a form of Demonic Instability for GK.

was old one was unfair to deamons, Yes. should it have been removed, NO

perhaps something like this.

Deamons must take a leadership test when they are within-blank-inches of a Grey knight.

If test is failed, deamon unit must take the number of Str5 hits that the test was failed by. Armor and cover saves may not be taken against wounds from instability.

Deamons that are normally fearless must still test.

If there is a Greater Deamon within -blank- inches the test may be taken with the GDs leadership(represents the stabilizing affect of larger deamons, kinda like nids synaps)



GKs need better psychic powers. and rhinos and Drop pods(they are in the Omnibus!)

some anti-tank would be nice

SOBs are fine IMO. I play against them alot and they rock

WE NEED ORDO XENOS!!!