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The rules are simple, post something that orks have trouble with... be it a unit or archetype of unit and how you would defeat it.... The Idea is that ork players will benefit ...(thus become better players to challenge other players)

I will begin...

Problem: Landraiders are Av 14 all-round and can easily move out of an orks assault range... In addition the orks titular transport popping unit, lootas, cannot harm it...

Solution: a Battery of 3 Zzap guns with ammo runts can punch a LR about 32% of the time (the highest ranged % any ork model can get, ignoring the shokk attack gun because it is too unreliable by ork standards...), all for 105 points (half of what 14 lootas cost)(includes 2 extra grots for point rounding, and wounds increase)

Problem: Termies with either lighting claws or TH/SS.

Solution: Im still fairly new to the game but what worked for me was either the Shokk Attack Gun, or shooting and then assaulting with as many boys as possible to force as many saves as possible

I think the reason your thread hasn't gotten much response is simple:

Orks have no problem dealing with ANYTHING except land raiders. Zzap guns, a battery of guns are something I will never disgrace any army list I make with, and my solution to a land raider involved a trukk, boarding plank and a Nob, or a trukk/boarding plank/Ghazghkull, or a trukk/boarding plank/Warboss, or a battlewagon/boarding plank/one of the above.

Depending on point values, I sometimes also put grabbin' klaws on my battlewagons, which give me a 50% chance of immobilizing the land raider or any other vehicle for a turn so that I can auto-hit it. Depending on the rules at your local store, deff-rollas also make a terrific answer to a land raider. Causing D6 STR10 hits can put a hurt on any land raider.

Outside of Land raiders though.....there is pretty much nothing in the arsenal of any army that Orks can't readily deal with, although less tactically competent ork players might have issues with sisters of battle and massed flamers or mechanized IG depending on their ork lists.


Nothing else I can really contribute here. ><


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Waaagh Junkie wrote:Problem: Termies with either lighting claws or TH/SS.

Solution: Im still fairly new to the game but what worked for me was either the Shokk Attack Gun, or shooting and then assaulting with as many boys as possible to force as many saves as possible

You posted while I was posting: Solution to terminators with Lightning claws or TH/SS is simple: Ghazghkull Thraka on the Waaaugh! has a 2+ invulnerable save, 7 STR10 attacks on the charge, and if you put him in a transport, he has a 27" assault range meaning that you get to dictate when and where combat happens.

Alternatively, burna boyz count as power weapons in close combat if you don't shoot them.

And honesty, a squad of regular boyz (even trukk boyz of only 12) can readily handle a squad of terminators. Terminators cost 25 points apiece. An Ork boy costs 6 points apiece. If you lose 4 boyz for every terminator you kill, you come out ahead, and if you mathhammer what happens when a squad of 12 ork boyz (along with a nob and powerklaw) attack a squad of 5 terminators, the Orks win.

Hey pepper Is that mathhammer with lighting claws or TH/SS? or does it matter. Haha Ya i know I have to get Ghaz still youve convinced me he is the gak. Forgot about the Burnas but good call. I was more thinkin about what I had to counter them.

Problem: Wraithlord is completely unaffected by boys shooting and assault and is hit and wounded on four plus by power klaws with 3 wounds for only 100 pts with reroll wounds and two flamers and a load of weapon options

Solution: Tank bustas with rokkits and hammas could work or a war boss with PK or Ghaz although if warboss or Ghaz fails to kill said Wraithlord they go splat (but Ghaz probably can)

While orks do not have trouble against most things... The things that they do have trouble against could end up being the straw that breaks our back...

Problem:
Eldar and Tau are quite fast... able to dance away from our orks...

Solution:
Deploying Long Range Units, such as lootas or Big Gunz (Not Lobbas) to deny the offending units a place to rest... I like having the Big Gunz on the flank to deter transports from trying to catch me in a pincer attack.

Turbo boosting Warbikers, because all you need to do is get the 3+ invulnerable/cover save. You do not need to do anything, just get close enough to scare them into running away, thus losing time on what the offending unit could have done...

Landraiders

Zzzap gunz are a terrible, terrible option for doing this. Most of the time they're weaker in strength than kannonz, for more points and without the frag option. The only time to ever consider them is for bug zapping if you play a lot of nidzilla. Kannonspam is a respectable way of putting anti-tank into a list if you　don't run battlewagons (I don't, not because they aren't excellent but because that isn't how I choose to run my orks) and all those str 8 shots could slow down a LR but the other big gunz don't really have a purpose IMHO.

Tankbustaz, which get mentioned often, are also a terrible unit although in cc they will do very nasty things to a LR. But the need to dragoon them a transport, their cost and limited tactical application makes them less than ideal.

Basically the only solution is to fist its exhaust pipe with p-klaws. At a STR9 or STR10 They are the most abundant high strength weaponry we can put in our list and they work against any opponent and in any situation. There is no such thing as too many powerklaws.

The only thing to consider then is delivery system. Since Landraiders are very mobile you need a delivery system that can move at least as fast as the Landraider. Trukkz and wagonz are a good choice. With boarding planks you can have a swing without exposing the squad inside. Or if the oppotunity arises you have a 20" charge range from either vehicle to catch it out, maybe it didn't move full speed for a turn and now you have your chance.

Bikes and especially the boss on a bike make good delivery systems too. 5 or 6 STR 10 attacks is a decent chance to penetrate a Landraider.

Grabbaklaws work to solve the problem of needing to slow it down but only come in limited quantities and aren't especially reliable.

Frankly my strategy is often just to ignore it. The threat from the LR itself is quite minimal, usually it is the squad inside which is a problem. It is often easy to see where your opponent intends to move the LR, place a sacrifical unit (i.e. grots) for him to assault and then counter-assault/shoot up the squad afterwards. LR's are targets I start dealing with in the later turns of the game. Although I have yet to play 3 or more in a list.


TH/SS Termies

Don't use the SAG. His low ap is wasted on the 3++. Instead he shouldbe killing anything that doesn't have an invulnerable save.

TH/SS Termies aren't actually that big a problem for orks. Swamp em is basically how to win. Turn all the potential firepower/assault power we can muster against them and they will start to fold.

The only problems with them are

1. They will munch nob bikers
2. If they get the charge they will basically kill whatever they did charge
3. You have to commit quite a bit of your force to shutting them down

They are a natural counter to the nob biker list, so no advice there guys sorry but an ork list with plenty of boyz just has to focus fire on them with a few mobz. This means a turn where the rest of your opponent's army is thoroughly unmolested but if the termies are in a position to threaten you then they need to die.

To deal with issue 2 hang back in trukks or wagons to get the charge yourself or use a grot screen or similar sacrifical unit to lure them into a position where you may counter-attack.


Wraithlords

Have about the same number of attacks as your nob. Although the nob hits and wounds on 4's with his p-klaw you're looking at 1-2 orks for the wraithlord and 1 wound a turn from the nob. With fearless eventually the wraithlord will fall. This will be bad for you as you'll be pinned in place for several turns and will lose a few orks but ultimately orks win that combat most of the time.

You'll want to avoid an interminable combat though so some ideas to drop the wraithlord

- dedicate high strength shooting towards it i.e. lootas, big sootas, tankbustaz, deffkoptaz, kannonz, etc. Fortunately Wraithlords are slow and so not a high priority threat. Drop the warwalkers and grav tanks first and then pour fire at the lord.

- add more p-klaws to the fray i.e. swing in the boss or the bikers to get a few more weapons capable of hurting the lord into the mix and hopefully end the cc quicker. This has the potential to backfire though.

Eldar and Tau are fast

pffft, hardly. Fast transports, Waaagh moves, 36" range and 18" range assault guns on our basic troops, bikes and guns with decent range (lootaz, SAG) make the case that orks are one of the faster armies in 40k too. Never underestimate big shootas, the potential to move and reach out 36" is enormous.

Orks have trouble Dealing with anything in Eldar. Pathfinders, Warlocks mostly.

Pathfinders go into buildings and shoot orks from afar with their Rendering and AP1 weapons and 2+ cover saves while Warlocks on Jetbikes Ride up flame and run away like the flamboyent gay tards they are and run away faster then Orks can Run or Waagh up to them. Plus they can doom and forturn any troop at any time during any players turn which is stupid. They can do it at anytime they want for no good reason if they felt like it cuz eldar break the rules on when you can use psychic powers. Not to mention their Warlock Leader.

Eldar Greater then Orks.

Vasarto wrote:Eldar Greater then Orks.

A game just ended here. Orks vs Eldar, Pitched Battle, Capture and Control.

Orks win holding both objectives. The Eldar was left with 6 Rangers and an immobilized Falcon.

The Ork list was a fast one (KOS style):
KFF Mek (survived)
Biker Boss (wounded)
4 Trukk mobs (2 reduced mobs and 1 trukk survived)
Nob squad in a BattleWagon (most survived)
3 Skorcha Trakks (1 survived)
2 units of about 5 Warbikes
1 Mob of Grots who sat on the Ork-side objective the entire game (most survived)

Looks like Orks can deal with Eldar from here...

Your problem is easily fixed. Just get a nob with a power claw on it. Hell get a wb to chew it up with Power claw. I often pop the landraiders before they drop there termies.

If you want to get creative. Stormboys with Zagstrukk out and pop it. Even deepstrike then jump out and get em. Its quite easy to kill one.

See the problem is Its not an insta-kill. Which ork players get used to. All the time. You think it should insta pop on turn 1 or 2. With str 9 nob in ever squad there is nothing I have yet to kill, and kill on the charge.

Dont forget the rule, If it hasnt moved its all auto hits. Zzap guns are ok. They are pretty random. I think the nerf really took out there usefulness.

IMO need new Ork Codex with some changes. Like maybe old choppa rule. hehe

Vasarto wrote:Orks have trouble Dealing with anything in Eldar. Pathfinders, Warlocks mostly.

Pathfinders go into buildings and shoot orks from afar with their Rendering and AP1 weapons and 2+ cover saves while Warlocks on Jetbikes Ride up flame and run away like the flamboyent gay tards they are and run away faster then Orks can Run or Waagh up to them. Plus they can doom and forturn any troop at any time during any players turn which is stupid. They can do it at anytime they want for no good reason if they felt like it cuz eldar break the rules on when you can use psychic powers. Not to mention their Warlock Leader.

Eldar Greater then Orks.

Eldar fanboy mayhaps?

Dealing with the specific issues you raised

Rangers/Pathfinders - oh no, ap1! That is the bane of ork players. Oh, wait, no tissue thin armour means we couldn't give a toss about your "rendering" (is that a bit like rending or do pathfinders have some kind of painting ability I was unfamiliar with?) or low ap guns.

This isn't to say that rangers and pathfinders aren't useful against orks. If the ork players runs nobz and especially if he runs nob bikers those low ap shots will be useful but not as useful as the PINNING effect. Pinning can destroy a nob biker force and its very nasty against regular bikers, lootaz, grots, Manz and Nobz Mobz.

They aren't hard to deal with though or crippling for most ork armies. Big ork units are fearless and cheap so couldn't give a toss about the low ap or the pinning. Rangers/Pathfinders are usually used to hold objectives, orks will simply assault them off the objectives and in assault those cover saves don't count.

Warlock on jetbikes with destructor - again this is nasty but hardly devastating. 1 heavy flamer and a few shuricat/cannon shots will not destroy your average mob a) because the average mob has cover from a KFF or grot screen so the shuricats/cannon aren't that threatening and b) because it takes more than one flame template to do real damage to a mob.

Now multiple jetlocks combining their templates is nasty and can take down a mob so Ork players should try and take down jetlocks whenever possible.

As for not being able to catch them. The max range on destructor is 8". To be of any real use at all it has to be closer to 6" away. So 6" fire than 6" back up. That is exactly in assault range. Assuming he stays at max destructor range that's 14" away, well within range of a potential waaagh.

And beside all that to use the shuricats at max range even with the move back puts them at 18". That's a waaagh or within range of all my lovely shootas.

The only way bikes can avoid orks all day is to hang back at 24", use the shuricannon and back up and even then big shootas will do the job and that's ignoring the faster and longer ranged elements in the ork army.

Any time the bikes sweep in they put themselves in danger. Which is of course why eldar hang back whittling away with their long range and then close in for the kill when they think they can wipe out a squad. Works wonderfully against marines but isn't so hot vs 25 T4 orks rocking a cover save.


Also IIRC Eldar still can only cast psychic powers in their own turn, not yours and all those powers 'fortune, doom, etc' have a range on them. Admittedly it has been ages since I've played eldar since the only eldar player near here has been rocking a pedro kantor list recently.

For termies it's always the case of more Boyz, use the extra points you would use for the more dedicated units elsewhere; like getting something to counter the likely Land Raider that will usually be nearby.

shoota boyz in a trukk... Works great against super close combat units because they have to shoot the trukk to catch it... while taking 21S4 3/6S5 shots each turn... With 2 trukks you can whittle them down slowly with just their ability to make your opponent to roll a one...

Is it just me, or do Ork solutions always seems to be "More Lootas", "More Boyz" Or "More Power Klaws"?

Powerklaws solve armor related issues. Period.

Flame templates solve genestealers/hordes of boys/harlies/daemon/any lightly armored pain in the ass in combat with high initiative.

Anything else, swamping the opponent with enough boys will do the trick. Ork success lies in the most straight-forward and intuitive way. Play to their strengths, which is numbers, mobility and power klaws.

SmoovKriminal wrote:
Ork success lies in the most straight-forward and intuitive way. Play to their strengths, which is numbers, mobility and power klaws.

Words of wisdom right there! Nothing frustrates me more than people laying out intricate battle plans for their Ork lists.

land raider redeemer- kommandos with nob with power claw infiltrating

Pepper: Ideally you do not want to fall for traps that other armies have developed to stop the nonsense that is 4 squads of 30 boyz with a power klaw... (I know I spoil my FLGS with not running the max and such a small core of the army) but I do see what you mean about over thinking something... In order to avoid this I remind myself that on average I will roll beyond or bellow average... (44% chance of rolling 2 dice and the result being 6-8)

I played a 4500 pt game this weekend in a 2v2 grudge match. It was about 3300 points of my orks and 1200 pts of my friends necrons(he doesnt play too much so small army) against 2200 pts of Tyrnids and 2300 pts of chaos marines. There was one objective in each corner and one in the middle. Sorry now on topic I faced 10 termies(5 TH/SS and 5 Lightning claws) with a chaos sorceror in terminator armour. I find what works best is droping as many burna templates on them as possible. Even with two templates i managed to down 1 termie and then even though it was suicide charged them with 8 nob bikers.( needed to tie them up for at least a turn or so) in the end it was about 1 lightning claws and 2 TH/SS with the sorceror left by which time i had a BW with burnas in it ready to roll up. Game ended a win for us holding the middle and one corner and them holding another(well we called it a tie because i did some extra wierd movement at the end to get to that corner objective) But wicked fun.

QuietOrkmi wrote:While orks do not have trouble against most things... The things that they do have trouble against could end up being the straw that breaks our back...

Problem:
Eldar and Tau are quite fast... able to dance away from our orks...

Three words my friend:

Kult! Of! Speed!

Luke_Prowler wrote:Is it just me, or do Ork solutions always seems to be "More dakka"?

fixed

Problem :
Orks can take a long time to play, when you are moving 150 models across the table.
This can be a problem when your FLGS closes at 9pm, or you are playing in timed games.

Solution(s) :
Kult O Speed
Putting your army in truuks or BWs helps to move your models quickly across the board.

Congo Line
Congo Line your assault troops. This increases the process of moving them.

Move from back to front
Moving your troops like this increases the speed at which they can move as a whole. This works even better when congo-lining your troops.

Go Shooty
Making your army a shooty ork army helps to resolve this problem as you are not rushing to get into assault. You are just rushing to get in range of your dakka.

I have faced a fairly tough problem which is...
The Plague Marines

My partial solution (but tends to work only in small encounters like 500pts):
MANZ
In small battles the enemy usually doesn't have to much power weapons or power fist to make you feel the lack of inv save. However the stairs begin in larger fights >1000pts :/

Any advice?

Also I have a problem fighting tyranid monstrous creatures in 500 pts. I'd appreciate it if you'd also find a solution to that.

I remember my nobz getting into a fight with PMs, they cleaned house.

I guess a less expensive way to deal with them would be a transport full of burnaboyz. For once there is a unit that goes at the same time as your assault troops. Power weapons ensure no FNP, and transport makes it easier to get the charge. In small games there isn't much that can beat MANz, in larger games the Burnaboyz in a battlewagon are harder to counter.

Edit: TMCs can be eaten by rokkits and Lootas. Use one or the other. Fast attack has plenty of rokkit-carriers.

Problem :
Nurgle Daemon Princes with Warptime. Rerolling hits and wounds with 5+ invlun save is just insane.
Ive had these wipe entire slugga squads without the PK even wounding this stupid creature.

Solution(s) :
Nobz with Big Choppas
I put 10 nobs with a warboss in a truuk. As his flying DP came to chop up my boys, the truuk came in from reserve. The nobs hopped out and threw 24 wounds onto the DP. He went down like a sack of potatoes and that player has been afraid of nobs since.



Problem :
Plague Marines are really tough.
Blight gernades reduce the number of attacks orks get.
Plague marines have an extra close combat weapon and bolt pistol, so get 3 attacks per model.
T5 means that after the assault, the average ork wounds on a 6. They save on a 3+. They get another 4+ from FNP. When not assaulting, an ork attack has a 1/72 chance of killing a PM. Shootas only have a 1/32 chance of killing a PM. Owch!

Solution(s) :
DeffKopas
These are some of the best shooters in the ork army -- being twin linked. The STR 8 delivers instant death with no FNP. Fielding 15 of these will turn the tide on a plague marine player.

TankBustas
On the same lines, the models will pop Nurlge marines hard. They need to be used carefully, as you have to use a BW to block LOS to any other vehicles, but they can clear a squad of PMs quickly.

Lootas
There is a lot ot say for volume of fire. While the PMs still get FNP and their normal 3+ save, at least your wounding on a 2+. 3 full squads in BWs should do the trick.

I have thought of Tankbustas to drop the nids. However the only battle I fought using them didn't bring me luck... Sucky rolls.

DeffKopas
These are some of the best shooters in the ork army -- being twin linked. The STR 8 delivers instant death with no FNP. Fielding 15 of these will turn the tide on a plague marine player.

- But the PM's have 5 toughness. There's no instant death here, all you will be removing is their save... FNP still stays :/

Lootas
There is a lot ot say for volume of fire. While the PMs still get FNP and their normal 3+ save, at least your wounding on a 2+. 3 full squads in BWs should do the trick.

- The only problem is that you're taking up about 900 worth of points (rough evalutation) just to counter one unit type. And what if the PM's ride in land raiders? Then you're screwed :/

Nevertheless, all this I have noted. I'll be sure to try out all options.

Nurgle Daemon Princes with Warptime. Rerolling hits and wounds with 5+ invlun save is just insane.
Ive had these wipe entire slugga squads without the PK even wounding this stupid creature.

-I don't know if I had faced a "Nurgle Daemon Prince with Warptime", however once I charged my friends DP with one 20 boy mob, 3 MANZ and a warboss. The funniest thing was that I didn't roll any power klaw attacks. My enemy failed to save regular boyz attacks.

Plague Marines have T4(5), meaning that S8 = 2xT, and therefore causes Instant Death, denying Feel No Pain as well as Sv3 due to AP3.

Lootas, well, as you say people figured out Land Raiders long ago. Whereas Tank Bustas also have Tankbusta Bombs (S6+2D6 penetration).

A Nurgle Daemon Prince with Nurgle's Rot is far more dangerous than a Nurgle Daemon Prince with Warptime, at least against numerous foes like Orks and Imperial Guard. S3 AP- is pathetic until you notice that the 6" area of effect is based on a 40mm base (13" diameter!) and can be used in close combat when everyone is all bunched up.

Typhus is even more dangerous: with Sv2+, auto-cast Nurgle's Rot, and a S4 Poisoned Daemon Weapon for 1D6+3 attacks at WS5, and Blight Grenades he can go through mobs of Orks something fierce. He's more vulnerable, and more costly, but escorted by a squad of Possessed with an Icon of Nurgle and he devours Ork mobs.

Quite true. That's why I still believe that PM are very tough adversaries for orks. We have to max out our damage output, push our speed and manuverability to the limit and plan few turns ahead like chess players :/ unfortunately I never had enough patience for chess.

I disagree.

I play mechanized orks: I have Ghazghkull, a squad of burna boyz, and lots of boyz in squads of 12. I've rolled a battlewagon up to a squad of plague marines, and had my burna boys drop 15 templates out the side onto them, causing 190 or so hits. After all was said and done with wounding, armor saves, and feel no pain, 2/20 lived. Ghazghkull is a monstrosity that eats plague marines, and even a regular boy squad can kill a few on the charge and then bring in the nob with the powerklaw to win combat, and if you're playing mechanized orks, you drop a couple squads of trukk boyz onto a squad of plague marines.

There's no chess involved...just a "Go krump here"

Other ork variants have suitable responses too. A kan wall....all those kans are STR10 and Grotzookas will do their fair share against PMs. Green tide.....30 boys putting 60 shots and following it up with 90 attacks on the charge will do some damage too. A gunline has Lootas aplenty...

I have seen 20 boyz mobs being ground to dust by 5 man PM squad. They're tough and orks' only chance is to overwhelm them somehow. And that's a difficult thing to do if you're playing 500 pts. As I said, MANZ tend to do the trick but not always.

Or maybe it's just me and my opponent. He usually gets really good rolls and I get opposite ones more often