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I'm not clear what this means in terms of their overall programme. The vote was taken by a quorum of 300 but surely can't be popular with the wider party.

It means nothing, its a racist party trying to look like they arnt racist...

corpsesarefun wrote:It means nothing, its a racist party trying to look like they arnt racist...

It's a racist party trying to not get prosecuted... Shame really, was hoping they'd dig their heels in so they could be imprisoned.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:It means nothing, its a racist party trying to look like they arnt racist...

It's a racist party trying to not get prosecuted... Shame really, was hoping they'd dig their heels in so they could be imprisoned.

Forgive the ignorance of a mere American,but is it ilegal to be racist in the UK?,or what I mean to say is,is it against the law for racist orginazations to exist as racist orginazations(political parties)?
Mind you,I'm in no way defending racism.

FITZZ wrote:

Forgive the ignorance of a mere American,but is it ilegal to be racist in the UK?,or what I mean to say is,is it against the law for racist orginazations to exist as racist orginazations(political parties)?
Mind you,I'm in no way defending racism.

Yep, quite illegal...

I wonder how the black police officers association have gotten away with it for so long, TBH.

If I started a Scouse Police Officers association there'd be merrrrder

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

Forgive the ignorance of a mere American,but is it ilegal to be racist in the UK?,or what I mean to say is,is it against the law for racist orginazations to exist as racist orginazations(political parties)?
Mind you,I'm in no way defending racism.

Yep, quite illegal...

Hmmm,I find myself with very mixed feelings concerning that,I absolutely despise racist individules,however I find myself none to keen on depriving anyone of their rights concerning free speech (yes,even if the speech is dispicable).
I don't belive outlawing orginaziations based on their belifes is the right way to go about ridding people of racist ideals,if anything I would see it as more polarizing than anything,not to mention it leans closely towards a very slippery slope.
I loathe groups like the Klan/Nazi parties etc,but I can't agree with making their belifes against the law...to close to "thought police" for my taste.

FITZZ wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:It means nothing, its a racist party trying to look like they arnt racist...

It's a racist party trying to not get prosecuted... Shame really, was hoping they'd dig their heels in so they could be imprisoned.

Forgive the ignorance of a mere American,but is it ilegal to be racist in the UK?,or what I mean to say is,is it against the law for racist orginazations to exist as racist orginazations(political parties)?
Mind you,I'm in no way defending racism.

It is illegal to discriminate against someone because of their race (religion, age, sexuality, disability) except if for genuine practical reasons it is necessary. For example, you couldn't refuse to employ someone just because they are black, or white. You could refuse to employ a blind person to be a bus driver on the grounds of health and safety.

That is what caught the BNP. Their constitution did not allow non-white people to become members.

Basically, the Commission for Racial Equality argued that the BNP's constitution was discriminatory since it didn't allow blacks, Jews or other ethnic minorities to join. They intended to prosecute the BNP so the BNP have voted to change said constitution to avoid this (assuming that the courts rule that the constitution is now compliant). I don't think there will be a queue of black people or Indians waiting to join the party - even the CRE guy had a smirk on his face when he was interviewed last night; they know full well that this has been done purely to antagonise the BNP and show them up for what they are - a bunch of Nazi bigots.


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What made it funnier was Nick Griffin, the BNP leader, trying to claim during a n interview that apparently, this move 'no longer makes us racist'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incitement_to_ethnic_or_racial_hatred

It's a shame holocaust denial isn't covered or Griffon would have been in the big house ages ago.

filbert wrote:
What made it funnier was Nick Griffin, the BNP leader, trying to claim during a n interview that apparently, this move 'no longer makes us racist'

Which is even funnier when you remember him spending an entire Question Time last year loudly proclaiming: 'The BNP is not racist'. Oh, how we laughed........

Suddenly I'm reminded of that Dave Chappelle Show skit for some reason.

The sad thing is the more the leftie, pinko-commie, latte sipping, tree hugging, society ruining nobs who are ensconsed within lame organisations like the CRE try to crack down on the extremists, the more it annoys the great unwashed who realise that their country is no longer the country that they grew up in but has been taken over with people they don't want, store signs they can't read, a lack of jobs they once worked hard at and a government that keeps saying 'trust us'.

There is a reason why people are voting for the BNP in greater and greater numbers....

Keyasa wrote:I wonder how the black police officers association have gotten away with it for so long, TBH.

Except of course that membership of the Black Police Association has always been open to any police officer regardless of what colour they are. Still why let facts get in the way of a cheap point eh!

I don't see this as anything more than a PR stunt for both the government and the BNP.

The government look good for telling the BNP they are racists and mustn't discriminate. It also means that by cracking down on what is seen by the majority as an extremist white group they can continue to crack down on Muslim extremists without being accused of favoritism or racism themselves.

For the BNP they get more publicity and are trying to be seen as not being a bunch of white racists (we now like black and asian racists too).

The reality is whilst on paper the BNP will allow non white members, how many do you expect to seek membership and how many of those who do apply will be granted membership? What does worry me slightly is that everyone knows what the BNP is and what they really stand for, as such they are largely ignored. If some of the more hardline elements decide to leave the group because of this policy change they could look to join or set up more extreme groups which are under the radar. We then are cultivating a whole new type of extremism which will be a lot harder to keep tabs on.

Whilst I see no place for racism in any forward thinking modern democracy, I would have been happy to maintain the staus quo and let Griffin and his idiot friends get on with it, largely ignored, but well watched, whilst the rest of us carry on like normal decent people.

LuciusAR wrote:

Keyasa wrote:I wonder how the black police officers association have gotten away with it for so long, TBH.

Except of course that membership of the Black Police Association has always been open to any police officer regardless of what colour they are. Still why let facts get in the way of a cheap point eh!

I'm just saying, if I started the White Police Association and then said "But of course people from all ethnic groups are welcome, I just want to improve race relations between everyone on the force and obviously the white element is the majority so should be represented" would I be justified? I'm guessing my association would last 5 minutes, and I don't think you can disagree if you're honest.

And no, I am not racist. I hate all races equally.

Over 95% of the police are white, they don't need an association.

Actually, ironically enough, the BNP has it's first non-white applicant:

A 78-year-old Sikh, soon to be the first non-white member of the BNP, has told why he supports the far-right party.

Rajinder Singh spoke a day after the BNP voted to change its constitution to allow black and Asian people to join.

The party made the decision at an extraordinary general meeting in Essex on Sunday after it was told by Central London County Court to amend its constitution to comply with race relations laws or face legal action by the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

On Sunday, leader Nick Griffin said he expected to welcome Mr Singh soon as the BNP's first non-white member.

Mr Singh said he would gladly join the party, although being a member or not would not change his support of its policies: "If they say 'join', I can't chicken out now. I will support them to the hilt, for their policies. I'm just pleased for them, not pleased for myself, because it doesn't change anything in me.

"It doesn't change my attitude to them, my loyalty to them. That doesn't change whether I am a member or not. I am still loyal to them."

Speaking at his home in Wellingborough, Northamptonshire, Mr Singh praised Mr Griffin for "taking on the whole storm of lefties" who, he said, wanted to encourage multiculturalism.

Mr Singh, who was born in West Punjab, India, said he left the country in 1967 after seeing years of violence caused by the partition of the country, which also saw the death of his father.

He said the BNP was the only party he felt would take on the spread of Islamic fundamentalism, and "save" Britain - preventing any repetition of what he had seen in India.

"BNP are home-grown sons of this soil, not home-grown terrorists - there's a big distinction. They want to save this country and, when they save it for themselves, it will be good for me too."

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=152164378

This seems to be a disturbing trend of greater exposure for the BNP. I worry that if they start to come across as moderate, then people will start being fooled into voting for them.

I don't think people get fooled into voting for them.

The racist policies they propose are attractive to a disempowered lower working calss who have seen their jobs and incomes evaporate and think the cause is immigration.

The same thing happens in most countries when there is an economic downturn.

Remember that life has been pretty crappy for the bottom 15% or so of British people for the past 30 years. All the old industries melted away and were replaced by call centres which got outsourced to India.

Don't get me wrong KK; I don't blame people for voting for them and I can understand the circumstances that drive people to do so. I am more frustrated at successive government policies, both Conservative and Labour, who have consistently stuck their head in the sand over the issue of immigration, cultural identity and integration and allowed things to get to such a state where people feel so disenfranchised and powerless that they feel the only hope for their country is to vote in a bunch of neo Nazis and xenophobes.

When all is said and done, the worst thing we can possibly do is allow the BNP to get a foothold. My comments regarding the white association are very similar to the kinds of things I hear people saying in the pub all the time. They seem to revel in the fact that they voted BNP, as though it were "cool" to be so daring.

I've had a few heated discussions with the lads in our local, and it's almost as though by voting BNP they are doing the political equivilent of wearing a burberry cap, playing Helter Skelter at full blast whilst driving a Honda Civic with a fake Type R badge full tilt through a housing estate.

I've yet to meet a reasoned, articulate person who can defend their viewpoint when it comes to voting the BNP. Their arguments usually crumble under a stern gaze and an out-thrust jaw.

Sorry . . . but how much was that guy being payed to join the BNP? Why on Earth would a non-white want to support a political party that wants to kick them out of the country?

Oshova

Cognitive dissonance.


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Cognitive dissonance.

Keyasa wrote:I'm just saying, if I started the White Police Association and then said "But of course people from all ethnic groups are welcome, I just want to improve race relations between everyone on the force and obviously the white element is the majority so should be represented" would I be justified? I'm guessing my association would last 5 minutes, and I don't think you can disagree if you're honest.

And no, I am not racist. I hate all races equally.

Your attitude is coming from a position of privilege. When you spend your life surrounded by people who look differently than you, by people who come from a different culture than you, it is good to have a group of people like yourself to meet with. It doesn't effect the majority, it doesn't exclude them from power. However, forming a White club wouldn't offer the majority any relief from being constantly surrounded by themselves, all it would do is exclude the minority.

Look at it this way, while a White Policeman's Club wouldn't be tolerated, a Scotsman's Policeman's Club would be fine. It isn't the colour of the officer's skin, but what the club would actually do that matters.


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Oshova wrote:Sorry . . . but how much was that guy being payed to join the BNP? Why on Earth would a non-white want to support a political party that wants to kick them out of the country?

Oshova

Because he really doesn't like muslims, and neither does the BNP. Exactly who is oppressing and who is oppressed can change in less than a generation, and the surrounding myths will quickly adapt.

If you think its weird, think about how Welsh, Scots, Irish and English are all just grouped together as White now. They were fighting for centuries, and serious antagonism existed until very recently.


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Waaagh_Gonads wrote:The sad thing is the more the leftie, pinko-commie, latte sipping, tree hugging, society ruining nobs who are ensconsed within lame organisations like the CRE try to crack down on the extremists, the more it annoys the great unwashed who realise that their country is no longer the country that they grew up in but has been taken over with people they don't want, store signs they can't read, a lack of jobs they once worked hard at and a government that keeps saying 'trust us'.

There is a reason why people are voting for the BNP in greater and greater numbers....

So reality be damned, the twin fantasies of a culture under siege and the old glory days will lead people to reject the political discourse and throw their lot in with a bunch of reactionary nutters. Nothing new under the sun, it seems.

filbert wrote:
This seems to be a disturbing trend of greater exposure for the BNP. I worry that if they start to come across as moderate, then people will start being fooled into voting for them.

Just like the far right is doing here in America.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:The sad thing is the more the leftie, pinko-commie, latte sipping, tree hugging, society ruining nobs who are ensconsed within lame organisations like the CRE try to crack down on the extremists, the more it annoys the great unwashed who realise that their country is no longer the country that they grew up in but has been taken over with people they don't want, store signs they can't read, a lack of jobs they once worked hard at and a government that keeps saying 'trust us'.

There is a reason why people are voting for the BNP in greater and greater numbers....

The reason why these people have jobs is the jobs they used to do have either no-relevence today or they are unwilling to work for the pay offered because prices are forced down by our love of cheap tatt, you can't blame the goverment for that. If i go into a polish/chinese/russian/middle-eastern, i have no problem with signs in that language cos unsurprisingy their main customer base speak that language (what about when you go to spain on holiday do you complain that everything is in english and most locals speak english). Don't blame the goverment for moving with the times and protecting our country, its not 1950 anymore, our country cannot compete in the production industry.

The culture is under siege, though that's not really the heart of the matter. What we should be doing is questioning whether or not that siege matters.



It doesn't. Adapt or die, that's the capitalist way.

Eh, I think I might have an insight on this. I sort of believe in the spirit of what the BNP -could- become, not what it is.

I'm the first generation of my family to be born in Canada, my parents came here from India, Punjab to be exact, something like 20-30 years ago. When they came here, they knew full well it was a christian country, it was a country where the majority was caucasian etc etc.

I went to public schools that had Christmas trees, sang Christmas carols, had days off of school at Christmas, and Easter. Now? When a Christian tries saying "Merry Christmas!" they get their bloody head bit off! They decry the time off people get for christmas, and then demand time off for Diwali, for Eid, for whatever! I grew up, and didn't demand that my highschool exams be put off because it coincided with a religious holiday for Sikhs, I did my exams and partied it up on the weekend. I joined the Canadian army, and the law is far from discriminatory, they were respectful of my beliefs, offering to bring in a Sikh religious member from a nearby temple if I needed because they had no Sikh Padre, also telling me that it was cool if I wanted a turban and beard (I'm clean shaven normally, but it was nice).

It's true taht a country with a strong sense of personal culture doens't want it's culture subverted by outsiders. When you move to a country, when it is gracious enough to accept you as an immigrant or as a refugee, it is expected that the new citizen adapts to the country's culture, not the country adapt to the citizen's culture.

So my children will sing christmas carols in school, but they'll go to a Gurudwara (Sikh temple) on our time. I fully expect them to integrate into society rather than raise a big stink how society isn't integrating into them.

And bravo for how France is maintaining it's cultural identity, and the Swiss ban on minarets.

I'd rather have racist racists more than pretend-not-racist racists.



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dogma wrote:The culture is under siege, though that's not really the heart of the matter. What we should be doing is questioning whether or not that siege matters.



It doesn't. Adapt or die, that's the capitalist way.

Orkeosaurus wrote:I'd rather have racist racists more than pretend-not-racist racists.

Me? I wouldn't say I'm racist at all. It's akin to moving to a new country and starting to demand that everyone should be speaking your native language. No Goddammit, you're in Canada, you'll learn to speak English. Speak Punjabi (which I do), Cantonese, Mandarin, Arabic etc all you want, but you're expected to either have a passable knowledge of the language, or take steps to learn the language once in country, not be a lazy git and then start complaining why public schools dont offer classes in anything but english.