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Hello, while playing a 2v2 game an interesting situation came up. The ork player had assaulted and immobilized a valkerie with a large boy squad. The Valk was not removed from it's base and was marked as immobilized. On the IG players turn he disembarked a unit with flamers and hit the ork squad across the flying base of the valk. Now the argument came up of "hitting friendly units". The ork player argued he was hitting the base of the valk while the IG player argued that the actual model was still in the air and could not be hit by the flamer since it can only hit the level that it is on (template and ruins rules). We brought in a couple of people in the shop but jsut ended up having to roll off cause no one could give a definitive answer. our shop uses the INAT FAQ to clear up most of these things but I could not find any ruling on something like this in the rulebook, FAQ, or on these forums.

Any insight is appreciated, Thanks.

The base of a skimmer is ignored for everything except for assaults if memory serves, so this seems to fall under that category - unlike other models which do occupy the area of their base (at least) skimmers are different.

Ah, I was hoping it would be something as simple as that. I went through the rule book page by page looking for something like that but must have missed it. Any chance I could get a page reference to that rule?

Thanks again

RedOnesGoFasta wrote:Ah, I was hoping it would be something as simple as that. I went through the rule book page by page looking for something like that but must have missed it. Any chance I could get a page reference to that rule?

Thanks again

Page 71 Under the Heading "Skimmers", under the subheading "Measuring Distances", Paragraph 1, Line 3.

But when a skimmer is immobilized, I thought you remove the base if possible as the skimmer's engines have failed and it is now on the ground.

I would think if the base could not be removed (it's glued in) then you would keep it under the Valk but for game purposes the Valk is now considered on the ground right below where it is, meaning in this instance his LOS would have been blocked if he disembarked on the other side. (though he probably could have disembarked and moved 6" around the corner to get LOS).

I believe that is correct. The Valk had been immobilized and should have definitely been placed on the table with it's base removed it possible. If not possible, the marker for immobilization should have represented the Valk's shape on the ground and the IG squad could not even see the orks on the other side of the Valk's hull without first moving.

However, that has no basis in the rules and would therefore be a houserule.

I agree with Morgendonner and In_Theory. The base should have been removed and los would have been lost, If you did shoot (which you normally shouldnt be able to) I'd imagine you would end up rolling against yourself for friendly fire

Except the base is only removed if possible, and the rules for skimmers requires that you glue them to the base.

It says the following:

Pg. 71, Shooting at Skimmers:
"If a skimmer is immobilized or wrecked, its base is removed, if possible. If this is not possible (the base might have been glued in place, for example), don't worry about it. The skimmer's anti-grav field is obviously still working and an immobilised skimmer will simply stay hovering in place..."

JSK-Fox wrote:It says the following:

Pg. 71, Shooting at Skimmers:
"If a skimmer is immobilized or wrecked, its base is removed, if possible. If this is not possible (the base might have been glued in place, for example), don't worry about it. The skimmer's anti-grav field is obviously still working and an immobilised skimmer will simply stay hovering in place..."

The problem with that is page 3, which states:

Citadel miniatures are normally supplied with a plastic base. If so, they must be glued onto their bases before they can be used in the game.

Meaning a Skimmer will NEVER be able to remove it's base, RaW.

JSK-Fox wrote:It says the following:

Pg. 71, Shooting at Skimmers:
"If a skimmer is immobilized or wrecked, its base is removed, if possible. If this is not possible (the base might have been glued in place, for example), don't worry about it. The skimmer's anti-grav field is obviously still working and an immobilised skimmer will simply stay hovering in place..."

As Gwar! pointed out, you are REQUIRED to glue them to the base, making the rule completely redundant

So do you two get a group discount rate for constantly posting after each other or something?

It's a x1.3 post count

And as always, love the new avatar

Why thank you. PM sent by the way

Or you could do what I did with my skimmers: put a microbead of glue onto the stem and glue them onto the stand...then once the glue had dried gently crack them off the base. Thereby satisfying both the glueing them onto the base and being able to remove them from the base rule (it all involved local TFG)


Sliggoth

In the end we are left with the following things;

1. The skimmers base wasn't removed. I assume this was because it was glued on. Otherwise you guys made a rules error.

2. A skimmer that isn't removed from its base counts as being exactly in the position it actually is, ie. up in the air.
There is no "let-pretend-the-model-is-somewhere-else" in 40k, besides "wobbly model syndrom" (which isn't relevant here).

3. Shots would indeed pass under it.

Although the rules state they need to be glued to the base. I have never glued a model to a flying base. How on Earth are you supposed to pack that efficiently? But then if you don't you are penalised when you're immobilised, as it then blocks los for other units, and also can ruin the los for the skimmer itself.

Oshova

Immobilised simply means it cant move forwards/backwards or turn.

If it happens to be floating 6 feet above the unit while its not doing those things it doesn't block LOS. At the same time, i would say it would have to work both ways, because it cant move at all (read controls are frozen) it would allow the orks to shoot back without a cover save. but that would be a house rule.

In no way would that be a house rule. That would be a RAW rule. As the rulebook clearly states when and where you get a cover save. And what to do with vehicles that are immobilised. =D

Oshova

nosferatu1001 wrote:However, that has no basis in the rules and would therefore be a houserule.

Actually, in the rules, it states you must remove the skimmer base if possible.

IggyEssEmManlyMan wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:However, that has no basis in the rules and would therefore be a houserule.

Actually, in the rules, it states you must remove the skimmer base if possible.

For crying out loud, please read the many days old thread before posting.

IF POSSIBLE. the rules on page 3 *require* you to glue the mdoel to the base. "If possible" will therefore never happen.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
IF POSSIBLE. the rules on page 3 *require* you to glue the mdoel to the base. "If possible" will therefore never happen.

So when 6th edition comes out and you want to swap the weapons on your models, you will say "No, I can't do that because it is impossible to break glue," right?

So, when you're playing a game you want to break one rule (models must be glued; breaking it is breaking the rule) to comply with an optional rule?

The rules of the game, oddly enough, only apply *during* the game. At lesat I assume you dont mean you are breaking your models during the game?

Or was it just yet another facetious comment?

nosferatu1001 wrote:So, when you're playing a game you want to break one rule (models must be glued; breaking it is breaking the rule) to comply with an optional rule?

The rules of the game, oddly enough, only apply *during* the game. At lesat I assume you dont mean you are breaking your models during the game?

Or was it just yet another facetious comment?

You are given specific permission to remove the base. Are you seriously arguing that this does not allow you to break the glue, and then accusing me of making facetious comments?

You are given permission "if possible", however it is not possible as all models must be glued.

Yes, you are makign facetious comments, especially the one about 6th ed. "If possible" does nto override "must"

nosferatu1001 wrote:You are given permission "if possible", however it is not possible as all models must be glued.

Yes, you are makign facetious comments, especially the one about 6th ed. "If possible" does nto override "must"

"If possible" clearly refers to whether it is possible to remove the base in the real world.

If you aren't going to take me seriously because of who I am, I could just stop acknowledging your arguments.

It does not override the requirement that all models must be glued. Therefore you do not have permission to override the requirement that all models must be glued, therefore you cannot.

"clearly" youre wrong. I'd ignore your arugments too, but theyre quite fun when theyre this silly

nosferatu1001 wrote:
"clearly" youre wrong. I'd ignore your arugments too, but theyre quite fun when theyre this silly

You think the interpretation that makes the rules work is silly, and that forcing skimmers to be glued to their flimsy flying stands is logical? FYI, the second part is not even a rule; the peg is part of the model and is glued to the base, therefore the model is glued to the base.

nosferatu1001 is right, you HAVE to glue the bases, which means it is never possible to remove them.