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nosferatu1001 wrote:
And your point is? That doesnt contradict anything I said. I said if you *want* to put it on a base, it ahs to be the one it was supplied with - otherwise you need to ask permission before every game.

Thus, as this is a permissivie ruleset, the bases you bought on ebay can only be used with opponents permission.

Point is you do not have to ask permission. You only must ask permission in the case of different sized bases. Which if I purchased bases of the same size, whether it be 35mm or 40mm or whatever, I do not need to ask permission so long as they are the same size as the citadel supplied bases.




How about checking "measuring distances" on Page 3, where it states measurements are to the base?

Re read this as well. If the model was not supplied with a base you measure from the hull or body. As far as you know, my whole army came without bases.


And again, Page 3 - so ONLY if your models are supplied without a base is any of the above legal.


read above.

I'll say it all again: Citadel miniatures only "must" have a base if they are supplied one(RAW pg3). If a model was not supplied with a base, it measures from it's hull or it's body(RAW pg 3). When firing, you measure from the firer(pg 17). When assaulting, your model must be in contact with another model(RAW pg 34)

Read again - what gives you PERMISSION to mount your models on ANY bases at all?

Page 3 gives you permission to mount it on the citadel base it came with. If you want to mount it on ANY other baser you must get permission, as a) your model then isnt Citadel (and it only gives you permission to play using citadel miniatures) and b) the second paragraph tells you you must ask permission.

Permissive ruleset 101, youre failing it currently.

Oh: and stop with the strawman. I was responding to your comment about using bases bought off Ebay. I was then pointing out you DO need perjmission. Stop mixing your argumetns up

nosferatu1001 wrote:Read again - what gives you PERMISSION to mount your models on ANY bases at all?

What gives you permission to modify your Citadel Miniatures by removing them from their sprues?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Oh: and stop with the strawman.

This is seriously laughable. You are telling all of us that we have to glue skimmers onto flying stands. After I disproved this by pointing out that the peg IS glued to the base, therefore the model IS glued to the base, you pretended that you had defeated my argument in previous posts and different threads.

You are not modifying them, you are assembling them per instruction.

Strawman argument, yawn. Id say I expect better, but....

I say again: show me the rule that lets you put them on any base not supplied by CItadel, without having to ask opponents permission?

I have defeated THAT argument before, and did it in that thread: the model is not glued to the base, as the upright+flat constitues the "Flying base" that is supplied with the model.

Try again?

Well I'll probably be sued for this but oh well.

Assuming my entire army is using model bases identical in size color and all other aspects of appearance, and the proper sizes are being used for the proper models, where does it state I am required to ask permission to use these different bases, or where does it state that I can only use Citadel bases?

Pg3, Models, Bases wrote:

Citadel miniatures are normally supplied with a plastic base. If so, they must be glued onto their bases before they can be used in the game.

Some players like to mount their models on impressive scenic bases. As mounting your models on different sized bases might limit the way they interact with the rules, make sure before the game that your opponent does not mind this.

And I'll pick it apart too.

Pg3, Models, Bases wrote:

Citadel miniatures are normally supplied with a plastic base(In 'my case' my models were not supplied with plastic bases). If so, they must be glued onto their bases before they can be used in the game(Key words "if so". If they were supplied I am required to glue them onto the bases. Since they were not supplied by Citadel with plastic bases they do not need to be glued on if I purchase my own. Permissions are in no way required by anything stated in this paragraph.).

Some players like to mount their models on impressive scenic bases( The bases I purchased are identical to Citadel bases, they are not impressive or scenic in any way). As mounting your models on different sized bases might limit the way they interact with the rules(These are not different sized bases and will not limit the way they interact with the rules), make sure before the game that your opponent does not mind this(I do not need to ask permission to use ebay-bought bases because the bases will not limit the way they interact with the rules. Permissions are only required when using a base which limit the way the models interact with the rules.).

So, assuming there were no bases supplied by citadel, where does this say I must have permission to use non-citadel plastic bases?

EDIT: on topic: Since you will not find anything which says a player must use citadel supplied bases or they cannot play without permission, the Valkyrie COULD be removed from it's skimmer base, so long as the skimmer base is not Citadel supplied. And the non citadel supplied skimmer base can be used without permission so long as it is identical in size and shape to the citadel base, so does nto have to be glued to the base and can be legally removed from it's base and set on the table to block line of sight.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
I have defeated THAT argument before, and did it in that thread: the model is not glued to the base, as the upright+flat constitues the "Flying base" that is supplied with the model.

You arbitrarily made this up because it supports your position. What rule says that the peg is part of the base? It is common sense that the flat part is, otherwise there would be no such thing as a base at all.

However, the peg has no qualities that make it a base. If something does not look like a duck, walk like a duck, or quack like a duck, and is not called a duck, then it is not a duck.

nosferatu1001 wrote:You are not modifying them, you are assembling them per instruction.

Strawman argument, yawn. Id say I expect better, but....

This is just outrageous. You think it is a strawman argument that the rules do not tell you that you can take pieces off of their sprues, and then you go on to say that a peg is a base, based on no rules whatsoever?

Do you really think I am too obtuse to see that you are insulting my intelligence here?

Because this is a permissive ruleset, and it only givesw you permission to use Citadel bases?

The game tells you what you CAN do. Can you use other bases than those supplied?> Yes, but only with permission.

Seriously, you do realise the game is permissive, yes?

thebetter1 - no, the flying bases are referred to repeatedly. The distinction between "model" and "base" is fairly straightforward.

You're the one who comes up with asinine, strawman arguments, and then complain you think your intelligence is being insulted? If you say so.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
You're the one who comes up with asinine, strawman arguments, and then complain you think your intelligence is being insulted? If you say so.

For the last time, you are the one with strawman arguments. Just about everyone here agrees with me on this.

By the way, I quoted the exact spot where you insulted me. Don't pretend it does not exist.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Because this is a permissive ruleset, and it only givesw you permission to use Citadel bases?

The game tells you what you CAN do. Can you use other bases than those supplied?> Yes, but only with permission.

I never argued otherwise. Pretending that I disagree with you on something that is clear in the rulebook does not make you correct on other issues.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
thebetter1 - no, the flying bases are referred to repeatedly. The distinction between "model" and "base" is fairly straightforward.

Yes. Flying base = a disc of clear plastic with a hole to put a peg in. If you think this description is wrong, PROVE IT ALREADY.

I was responding to Iggy, I'd suggest looking out of your own argument and see there are two people in the thread, and the bit where I respond *to you* starts with your name.

If you're taking things that personally that you believ ALL my response is about you, perhaps stepping away would be a good idea, for 5min at least?

So, to your arguments:

1) your first strawman argument was positing that rules that detail HOW TO PLAY THE GAME have an effect on how you model.

the rules dont care about what you do *outside* of the game, as long as when you're in the game you abide by the rules. So nothing stops you snapping your arms off to replace the weapons when 6th ed comes around, however when youre *playing* the game you must abide by the rule that all models must be glued.

so yes, that was a strawman argument. as I explained at the time

2) the second is in claiming nothing lets you cut the models frmo the sprue - well as I explained, the rules only care how you play the game. Assembling the models is not part of playing the game (unless you speed build during setup) and therefore they dont count.

So that was your second strawman argument.

3) So when told to glue the model to the base, and your response is that you have put it on a stick on a base, you have still not glued the model to the base - as the model is not glued to the base. That IS that simple.

So either the flying base is BOTH the peg and the flat, or you are always breaking the rules.

I did NOT insult your intelligence, merely that your arguments seem to end up in strawman arguments. You can be quite intelligent and still resort to strawman arguments.

*polite warning to users with regards to forum rules and the way we speak to each other.*

Strike ..hmm.... two gents.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
3) So when told to glue the model to the base, and your response is that you have put it on a stick on a base, you have still not glued the model to the base - as the model is not glued to the base. That IS that simple.

So either the flying base is BOTH the peg and the flat, or you are always breaking the rules.

Why is the stick not part of the model? Nothing says that it is part of the base, and there is no precedent for this, so it is not part of the base. So now we have a piece of plastic that is not part of the base but is meant to be on the model, so logically it is part of the model, unless there is some third category I don't know about. Therefore, gluing the stick to the base IS gluing the model to the base.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
the rules dont care about what you do *outside* of the game, as long as when you're in the game you abide by the rules. So nothing stops you snapping your arms off to replace the weapons when 6th ed comes around, however when youre *playing* the game you must abide by the rule that all models must be glued.

I did not say it is illegal to snap off weapons. My argument here makes perfect sense in conjunction with point 3, and was stated in a context that is no longer relevant, so I do not care to continue debating this.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
2) the second is in claiming nothing lets you cut the models frmo the sprue - well as I explained, the rules only care how you play the game. Assembling the models is not part of playing the game (unless you speed build during setup) and therefore they dont count.

So you use the permissive ruleset argument when talking about which base you use but not at all when discussing how models are assembled?

See above

the rules dont care how you do items outside of the game, as longas WHEN YOU PLAY the game you adhere to the rules of playing the game.

That really isnt at all difficult. The rulebook has rules for playing the game, what you are asking is not part of the game - it happens before it.

The RULES state you must base it on the Citadel base it is supplied with, if you wish to use ANY OTHER base you MUST ask permission - as you have no other permission to put a base on the model.

Still think that what I mentioned a page or two back is the way to go....and looking at the details as presented since it would be one of the few legal ways to go.

Insert a magnets. The top of the base (the little nib on the top) can be cut off and glued to the vehicle. So the base is glued to the vehicle, first rule satisfied.

Next glue a second magnet onto the stand portion where you cut off the nib. When the skimmer gets immobilized remove the lower portion of the base. The top part of the base is still glued to the vehicle, while the bottom part of the base is removed. Both rules are deleriously happy since they have been fullfilled.

Or if one wants a bit of destruction then yes one can just employ clippers to snip off a portion of the base...again leaving both rules happy. Altho its a bit tough on the player to keep repairing his bases one would think......



Sliggoth

Yeah, but you would soon learn how to use your skimmers properly if they just kept getting immobilised =p

It's like slapping someone every time they spell something incorrectly. They'll soon learn how to spell properly =]

Oshova

this is a ridiculous argument. no logical judge in the world is going to force you to glue a model to its stand.

Fiercegoldfish wrote:this is a ridiculous argument. no logical judge in the world is going to force you to glue a model to its stand.

I would, because that's what the rules say.

Gwar! wrote:

Fiercegoldfish wrote:this is a ridiculous argument. no logical judge in the world is going to force you to glue a model to its stand.

I would, because that's what the rules say.

Well then I would be charging you for every model that became unusable when its base snapped in the hole.

Fiercegoldfish wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Fiercegoldfish wrote:this is a ridiculous argument. no logical judge in the world is going to force you to glue a model to its stand.

I would, because that's what the rules say.

Well then I would be charging you for every model that became unusable when its base snapped in the hole.

No-one is forcing you to play.

Gwar! wrote:

Fiercegoldfish wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Fiercegoldfish wrote:this is a ridiculous argument. no logical judge in the world is going to force you to glue a model to its stand.

I would, because that's what the rules say.

Well then I would be charging you for every model that became unusable when its base snapped in the hole.

No-one is forcing you to play.

Are your comments meant to be serious or childish and whimsical?

I think that's long enough to prove that this thread isn't going anywhere constructive...