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Which do you all think is the best Land Raider option the Crusader, Redeemer, or the Standard Las-cannon one? Which has been the best for you?
I have a regular Land Raider (magnetized) but I'm afraid since it is an assault vehicle and it has two TW las-cannons that I will have to pick between hanging back and shooting or rushing forward and dumping out troops. I have a SW army by the way and was going to have 9 blood claws with a wolf lord in the tank.

Crusader IMO. Raiders that end up Immobilized or not moving near the enemy end up dead, so Redeemer's out because it's only useful right next to things.

Standard Raider is too mixed-role.

Crusader can actually back off a bit after delivery and if it gets immobilized in midfield can still have an effect on the game.

for your list, the crusader is would be the best, the redeemer not far behind because your your selected squad size.

while the crusader can be more reliable in game to game performance, the redeemer wins games at times.

If you were looking to move that giant BC pack, then the Crusader would be the only choice.

The godhammer Land Raider is the weakest, but I think it has its role is certain armies.

I personally have had really good luck with my Phobos pattern Land Raiders. Really though it depends on what role you want to utilize them in. 12 models or less you have pretty decent flexibility with what variant you take. If you want to take a bigger squad then the choice is the crusader as it can carry more.
If you are running terminators that don't strike at I1 then you might be better served with a redeemer or a crusader as they grant frag grenades the turn they disembark. I generally run Tactical terminators so it would only help 1 model in my case.

Cheers,
~Volkan

Dainty Twerp wrote:
The godhammer Land Raider is the weakest, but I think it has its role is certain armies.

Is that the standard?

Anyways, yeah, Crusader sounds like a good fit, if a redeemer is immobilized mid-field, it's mostly useless.

Gavo wrote:

Dainty Twerp wrote:
The godhammer Land Raider is the weakest, but I think it has its role is certain armies.

Is that the standard?

Anyways, yeah, Crusader sounds like a good fit, if a redeemer is immobilized mid-field, it's mostly useless.

The standard Land Raider is designated as the Phobos Pattern. The term God Hammer comes from the Pattern of the Las Cannons that are fitted on to it.

Cheers,
~Volkan

K, thanks.

The crusadere has the advantage that the hurricane bolters count as defensive weapons so you can move six and fire the assault cannons and a hatch weapon along with the hurricanes.

I don't like the Crusader. I'm not paying 250 points for 6 TL bolter shots that go ping.. So I'd only take the Crusader if you have 8 termies or 16 normal models, so for the transport capacity.

I guess every Land Raider has is spot.
Crusader is my favorite one too. It's got max capacity and though it's just bolter shots it helps filling in an anti horde roll, while the content usually is a sledgehammer unit.
The redeemer is a wonderful MEQ killer if it gets close enough but it's almost impossible to use both flamers to effect because your enemy will simply move away if your moving 6" only.
The standard Land Raider is best picked if you want a scoring AV 14 all around by filling in a scout squad or a left behind combatsquad. Nothing ever held that home objective so resiliently

Shrubs wrote:I don't like the Crusader. I'm not paying 250 points for 6 TL bolter shots that go ping.. So I'd only take the Crusader if you have 8 termies or 16 normal models, so for the transport capacity.

Actually, if you are saying that Assault Cannons suck against armour, lemme tell you something. AC has a higher chance of killing tanks than LC.

More on this later.

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
The redeemer is a wonderful MEQ killer if it gets close enough but it's almost impossible to use both flamers to effect because your enemy will simply move away if your moving 6" only.
Nothing ever held that home objective so resiliently

Machine spirit is your friend move and still fire 1 weapon, or if you get close you can fire both at different targets. Unless they changed machine spirit for space wolves.

Crusader, period.

Move 6" & fire 17 shots? Oh, hells yes.

I *want* to like the redeemer, but in my experience it's very rare that you'll ever fire all its weapons. Seems like it spends half the game (or more) moving into position or chasing down infantry...which means that you're firing one or two of its four main guns a turn, and the others are dead weight.

The Phobos has the issue of having two diametrically opposed roles. If you park deep in your own territory to take advantage of the range & firepower of your lascannons, you're wasting the assault vehicle bit. If you're taking full advantage of the assault vehicle rules, you're squandering the long-range firepower. I've seen some applications with a small scout unit or a combat squad embarking to keep a scoring landraider on your own objective... but there are far more points-efficient things to buy in the codex.

So, yeah, Crusader all the way.

My opinion is the all LRs are transports/mobile bunkers first and are gunboats second.

If you subscribe to this philosophy, then the Crusader is the autowin, when they are compared.

1. It has the largest transport capacity
2. It has frag launchers (along with the redeemer)
3. It has defensive weapons, so it can move and fire ALL of its weapon systems (MM with PotMS), which allows to to concentrae on moving, rather than making choices about moving or shooting.

Shrubs wrote:I don't like the Crusader. I'm not paying 250 points for 6 TL bolter shots that go ping.. So I'd only take the Crusader if you have 8 termies or 16 normal models, so for the transport capacity.

If your Crusader is within 12 inches of the enemy (it should be) you'll get 12 Bolter shots, 4 Twin-Linked Assault Cannon shots (Better against AV than Autocannons or even Lascannons sometimes, and I always take a Multi-Melta which will get 2d6 AP. So you can move 6 inches, and still fire all your guns, plus you can split one off (Multi-Melta is the one I usually split fire away with) to target other things.

More model capacity, full firepower on a 6" inch move and 2 guns @ 12 inches? Yes please.

eNvY wrote:

Shrubs wrote:I don't like the Crusader. I'm not paying 250 points for 6 TL bolter shots that go ping.. So I'd only take the Crusader if you have 8 termies or 16 normal models, so for the transport capacity.

If your Crusader is within 12 inches of the enemy (it should be) you'll get 12 Bolter shots, 4 Twin-Linked Assault Cannon shots (Better against AV than Autocannons or even Lascannons sometimes, and I always take a Multi-Melta which will get 2d6 AP. So you can move 6 inches, and still fire all your guns, plus you can split one off (Multi-Melta is the one I usually split fire away with) to target other things.

More model capacity, full firepower on a 6" inch move and 2 guns @ 12 inches? Yes please.

Yes, the Crusader is an excellent choice, and for the army I play, the best one. My own tactics would never require a redeemer, but there are vast advantages in having the Godhammer, which is a bit like a moving, shooting-at-two-tanks-at-once, scoring with troops inside bunker.
I can't get the hang of redeemers, and can only see them as useful in a Vulkan Hestan list where you get crazy fiery superpowers. For Space Wolves? I'd go with the crusader.

How does a land raider count as a scoring unit with scouts/troops in it? Wouldn't they have to disembark to count as scoring?

Um, no. See "Measuring ranges to embarked units" in the Transpors section of the BRB. You can measure range to an embarked unit, hence an embarked troop can cap an objective.

Ow cool that's good to know.
Thanks everyone for your feedback!

I prefer the Crusader any day.
Its a decent battle tank with assault cannon, multi melta, and Hurricane bolters.

First Post..... I figure Ill just dive on in.
Hello Everyone

Personally out of those three, I agree with the majority.
The Crusader. Max Trans and Dakka with a pinch of tank busting thrown in.

Past that I tend to like the other less known/used variants.
My WIP Marines only use the Rhine chassis for Rhinos and Razors. All HS are LR's.

The Term Dedicated Trans are all LR Crusaders.
Replacing the Whirlwind is a single Helios. Think a Phobos with a Launcher on top.
Replacing the Pred Destructors I had are a pair of Crusaders.
Finally, replacing the Pred Annihilators are a pair of Terminus LR's.
I like the Terminus over the Phobos because it solves the dual role issue. Its pure firepower, but no Trans ability.
For anyone not knowing the model. It has 3 sets of TL Lascans, and 2 additional Lascans to boot.

Well, those are my thoughts on the matter....

First of all, I think all Land Raiders are over rated

There is a lot of love for the Crusader here, but IMO its the most over rated of the Land Raiders. All that its packing is the boltgun firepower of a tactical squad (which is decent for anti-horde duty but I tend to run 2 thunderfire cannons alot so meh). Not only that, but you need to move 6" a turn in order to put it to use. Half the point of having an assault-transport vehicle is to get your troops into the fight faster than foot slogging 6" a turn! And if you are moving 12" a turn, it has less useful single weapon shooting possibilities than the Redeemer (Twin assault cannon or MM will probably fire on approach, but once you get close will you ever consider firing 6 boltgun shots over 4 assault cannon shots if moving 12"?).

If you take a Redeemer, sure you are probably never going to be able to fire both flamestorms at the same time, but who cares! Just 'Tank Shock' some infantry, hope they pass their morale check, then laugh as they are forced to pile up next to one of your flamestorm sponsons. Then use POTMS on that sponson for the squad wipe.

IMO, the ONLY reason to take a Crusader over a Redeemer is the troop capacity. Moving 6" a turn is just silly.


(The Godhammer is a totally different kettle of fish. Cant really compare it with the Crusader or Redeemer. Long ranged shooting on an Assault vehicle... why? Throw some scouts inside for a super home objective camper? lol)

I have used the redeemer since the SM codex was released, and I think it is awesome. It always seems to be underestimated, because it is short range. There is no better feeling than killing 2 full beserker squads at one time, and watching your opponent's mouth gasp.

I have heard arguments that the crusader is better, but I think it is a wash. If the crusader could hold 10 terminators THEN I would give the edge to it, but as of now I say the Redeemer is better.

The regular Godhammer wins everytime for me. A play in a very Mech heavy environment, so being able to move 6" and fire my Lascannons at two different Chimeras/Rhinos/Vendettas etc is worth its weight in gold. Plus there are some games where you can just sit back and kite your opponent, and it's in that kind of situation where the Gohammer really shines compared to the other two.

Well right now I am considering the redeemer or the godhammer. I don't have a lot of anti-tank with my SW so thats why I like the godhammer. But the redeemer is great to because you need it to get really close so it can shoot which is what my whole army will be doing.

The regular Land Raider is the Phobos Pattern Land Raider. "Godhammer" is the pattern of the Lascannons mounted on the Phobos.

the phobes pattern is best left sitting on objectives and popping tanks from as far as it can shoot.

PoTMs the heavy bolter against infantry.


for an assaulty unit the crusader is best.

Redeemer is nice to look at, but fails in a practability test. hopefully they will make it better in the next edition.

I personally prefer the Redeemer, though I think that all of the variants have their uses.

The Redeemer's capacity is perfect for me, 5 man TH/SS squad and a character (or 2 if you leave behind their TDA!). The crusader's added capacity would just encourage me to take even more termies and would give me the feeling that I'd gone overboard on the putting all my eggs in one basket (a feeling I already have with my current setup).

The Standard LR's inability to take a character with your Terminators instantly ruled it out of the running for me. It's a shame as I really would be a fan of moving down the board while taking LC potshots at the enemy. However, the lack of Frag launchers makes the standard LR give me a sad.

Just as an aside, I like the fact that you have to be within spitting distance for your Redeemer to be effective. It helps give me the proper motivation to plow straight ahead. As for not being able to shoot both Flamestorm cannons at the same target, PotMS still lets you split fire, toasty goodness for two targets!


I will say that I think that the fact that this is up for debate means that there isn't a 100% right answer for choosing your flavor of LR.

I have tested the redeemer in one game before and I think that if I get the hang of it will prove the be a brutal tank. But I agree econtutor with the prefect troop capacity and the motivation to plow forward I think it will fit perfectly in my army! Also it is cheaper than the other two.
-Thanks! for all the feedback guys!

I have a question: what else is good to put in a Crusader besides assault termies? right now two of the guys in my group use Vulkan and have Redeemers with A-Termies in them. Id like to be a bit different...

I'm doing Imp Fists and have my Crusader painted. Working on first Tac squad.

Is there anything else I could put in there - in fact, should I put a tac squad in it and cap objectives with it? Note that we play around 1250 points.