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Vanguard, no Jump Packs. TH/SS Terms are better, tho.

The Terminators are better against Fearless enemies. Against normal enemies the capacity for a Sweeping Advance is better.

Econtutor wrote:
The Standard LR's inability to take a character with your Terminators instantly ruled it out of the running for me. It's a shame as I really would be a fan of moving down the board while taking LC potshots at the enemy. However, the lack of Frag launchers makes the standard LR give me a sad.

Just checked the Codex, the C:SM Land Raider (phobos) has a transport capacity of 12 models. Same as the redeemer. The Lack of grenades is a pain for Termies. Power Armored Marines can bypass that problem though, although most would argue that they aren't worth putting in raiders to begin with.

Cheers,
~Volkan

Just wanted to point out that Frag launchers are only really useful for Lightning Claw wielding Assault Terminators. (Power Armour Marines have frag grenades stock, and Hammer/Shield Assault Terminators always strike at I1 so Frag Launchers won't matter.)

Orangecoke wrote:I have a question: what else is good to put in a Crusader besides assault termies? right now two of the guys in my group use Vulkan and have Redeemers with A-Termies in them. Id like to be a bit different...

I'm doing Imp Fists and have my Crusader painted. Working on first Tac squad.

Is there anything else I could put in there - in fact, should I put a tac squad in it and cap objectives with it? Note that we play around 1250 points.

an assault squad without J-packs can be a nasty surprise for an enemy. and you get a free rhino with the bargain.

Black templars love loading up crusaders with as many models as can fit inside. do the same

its worth it when your opponent sees 10 marines, a chaplain and Libby hop out for some serious crumping.

Orangecoke wrote:I have a question: what else is good to put in a Crusader besides assault termies? right now two of the guys in my group use Vulkan and have Redeemers with A-Termies in them. Id like to be a bit different...

I'm doing Imp Fists and have my Crusader painted. Working on first Tac squad.

Is there anything else I could put in there - in fact, should I put a tac squad in it and cap objectives with it? Note that we play around 1250 points.

Assault marines or Vanguard w/out jump packs.

Orangecoke wrote:I have a question: what else is good to put in a Crusader besides assault termies? right now two of the guys in my group use Vulkan and have Redeemers with A-Termies in them. Id like to be a bit different...

I'm doing Imp Fists and have my Crusader painted. Working on first Tac squad.

Is there anything else I could put in there - in fact, should I put a tac squad in it and cap objectives with it? Note that we play around 1250 points.

I liked the idea of dumping a scout or Tac squad in there in order to make it an objective capturing pillbox.

Also... just off the top of my head: (Bonus fits with the chapter! ) would be to dump Lysander, Libby and 10 Sternguard in it. Admittedly you still have 3 transport capacity unused but the look on your opponents face when you have 20 sternguard shots re-rolling failed to hits pop-out of the thing would be pretty amusing. Admittedly, that combo alone runs nearly half of your army (and that's without the LR included!) if you're playing a 1250 pt. game.

I do have to say that IMHO there's really no reason to take a LR unless you're running some sort of (preferably TH/SS) terminators in it. 250 points (with the obligatory MM) could be spent better elsewhere if you're not going to use it for its best battle taxi purpose. Heck, 3 Dakka preds are only 5 points more!

rednekgunner wrote:

Orangecoke wrote:I have a question: what else is good to put in a Crusader besides assault termies? right now two of the guys in my group use Vulkan and have Redeemers with A-Termies in them. Id like to be a bit different...

I'm doing Imp Fists and have my Crusader painted. Working on first Tac squad.

Is there anything else I could put in there - in fact, should I put a tac squad in it and cap objectives with it? Note that we play around 1250 points.

Assault marines or Vanguard w/out jump packs.

Here's a dumb question: what would make the assault marines a better choice than basic tactical marines? I notice they seem to have the exact same stats (WS, A). (that's a sincere question by the way)

Assault Mehreens haz CHAINSAW SWORDZ!!1! But there's never any reason to put either AMs or TMs in a Raider.

There's barely a reason to ever put Vanguard in there

Orangecoke wrote:

rednekgunner wrote:

Orangecoke wrote:I have a question: what else is good to put in a Crusader besides assault termies? right now two of the guys in my group use Vulkan and have Redeemers with A-Termies in them. Id like to be a bit different...

I'm doing Imp Fists and have my Crusader painted. Working on first Tac squad.

Is there anything else I could put in there - in fact, should I put a tac squad in it and cap objectives with it? Note that we play around 1250 points.

Assault marines or Vanguard w/out jump packs.

Here's a dumb question: what would make the assault marines a better choice than basic tactical marines? I notice they seem to have the exact same stats (WS, A). (that's a sincere question by the way)

assault marines have 2 attacks(ccw+bolt pistol), can take 2 special weapons(flamer or plasma pistol), and have the potential for a "free" rhino or drop pod.

the dumb thing is they can't get melta-guns like their supposedly infierior chaos equivalents. an assault squad can tank-hunt decently with a PF and all have krak grenades, but melta-guns would make them a decent choice.


Landraiders are not a bad choice alone like some suggest in lower point games opponents don't have many options to take it down and it is still affordable. in a 1500 point games 1 landraider can really throw its weight around, especially with an assault squad inside. and the "free" rhino can drive around as a spare.

In my SW codex the Capacity for a Phobos land raider is 10. Why would it be 12 in another codex?

Because Vanilla Marines aren't Space Wolves . There's a few oddities that crop up between the SM Codexes

The_HoFF wrote:In my SW codex the Capacity for a Phobos land raider is 10. Why would it be 12 in another codex?

That would be because GW loves to screw with you. xD

Ale storage space.

The Space Wolves ignore the Codex Astartes, and particularly the important chapters on tactical origami.

wow lot of love for the crusader here. Its good for transport for sure, better than the others. In my army though i use just the regular ole LR... I can sit back and tank hunt usually without having to move a bunch. Or since my LC are Ap 2 I can soften up even termy units.

I've tried all land raiders to here's my thoughts:

godhammer raider is good all round and focuses mainly on anti tank. However in order to deliver those terminators you need to move, which means you can only fire one weapon. With it having heavy bolters along with lascannons the role is mixed, though with POTMS this shouldn't be a issue.

The crusader is good for hordes and it can lay down a lot of fire, plus it can move and still fire the bolters 24". If you take a multi melta and a storm bolter you get tank busting powers and a little more anit infantry (though the storm bolter isn't required) but if you move 6" you can fire all weapons because the hurricane bolters and storm bolter are defensive weapons, you can fire one weapon and then fire another weapon extra because of POTMS again - that's a lot of fire power. Also because the crusaders main fire power is 12" away you need it to get up close, which is the same role as the terminators inside.

Redeemer is good for busting power armour and hordes. But this can also be a problem. Because you have the land raiders foot print the flamers will only BBQ which is along the side, so anything directly in front will be ok. Because the flamer templates are 8" you need to get close which doesn't leave much room for you to bail out the front ramp.

Also because the redeemer needs real close range its in melta range, even meltaguns can threaten it easier. However that is the same for the crusader more or less.

Don't forget that land Raiders have 3 access points . They don't all have to bunch around just the front ramp. In some cases it might be worth it to disembark them on the left side to charge 1 unit while the right side flamer can hit another. Obviously this is one of those magical situations that doesn't come up all that often, but its good to know that the ability for it is there.

Cheers,
~Volkan

Everyone who is saying that the Redeemer is useless because you'll never use *all* the weapons at one time, I have just one thing to say.

One is all you need.


I don't know if you guys just haven't seen it for yourself, but a Str 6, AP3 Template that ignores cover just eats Marine squads for lunch, especially after a Tank Shock. You don't need two of them at a time. You can roll 12, shoot one, and wipe a devestator squad out of hard cover, if you can make the shot in 6", you can add the Assault Cannon to the shots.

I agree that if it's killed midfield, it's useless, but so is anything. If you took the time to kill it midfield, I've had time to maneuver everything else to take advantage of it, most likely.

Not to say the Crusader and Godhammer aren't useful in their own right. The Crusader is the ultimate mid-field support unit (whereas the Redeemer operates as close to the enemy as possible, which is why I like it). And the Godhammer is the ranged version, which confuses most people. Two lascannon shots just isn't that much for the points. I think even the Godhammer does best when charging to the enemy's lines. If can deliver troops, or just carry scoring troops, and putting an AV14 Gunboat *behind* the enemy lines makes those Lascannons much more scary. I would use this unit as a forward anchor for a flank attack, setting up a crossfire with my stationary backfield elements.

Volkan wrote:Don't forget that land Raiders have 3 access points . They don't all have to bunch around just the front ramp. In some cases it might be worth it to disembark them on the left side to charge 1 unit while the right side flamer can hit another. Obviously this is one of those magical situations that doesn't come up all that often, but its good to know that the ability for it is there.

Cheers,
~Volkan

I know it has side access points. However any sane person would put either the redeemer cannons or the hurricane bolters ont he front mountings. So if you disembark and BBQ'd everything at the side it's possible you may not make that assault range. Sure you've got 2" disembark and then 6" movement but you have to go around your own sponsons.

True enough, And I do agree that the short range Land raiders need those weapons in the front slots.

Cheers,
~Volkan

If the DS rules for LR in the new BA Codex are to be believed then I think the redeemer will win hands down. The ability to DS into your enemies line negates the danger of it being immobilised way back from the action. And before people say yes but now it is in melta range if you are in melta range of my redeemer it will cook you and you will divert so much attention to getting rid of it the rest of the army will arrive and smash you.

However I have no intention of playin BA so I only post this as an observation not as an intention.

Or you will scatter a little bit and the massive model will Mishap. Or not be in Flame template range. And this will be between turns 2-5.

Deep striking Land raiders just doesn't seem to make sense to me. You can shoot a single weapon when (and if) it lands safely. Or you can Pop smoke. The squad inside can't assault. Maybe it would be worth disembarking to shoot it but generally a drop pod could have gotten you that ability for cheaper. Or Termies could deep strike themselves. If your opponent has an Inquisitor with Mystics then a nearby melta could end your raider before you can pop smoke.

Sure those are all ifs, but there are a lot of common scenarios in that list. I think I would rather just force my way up field 12 inches a turn. With the 12 inch deploy, and 12 inch move on turn 1 you can make midfield easy, turn 2 you can be in the enemy lines anyway.

Cheers,
~Volkan

I really think Crusader is the way to go. The massive anti-infantry firepower 2 TL hurricane bolters, a TL AC and a stormbolter means even MEQ squads take pretty heavy losses, not to mention the large variety of horde/model-heavy armies there are out there, you can never have enough dakka.

The thing is, Assault termies seem to be the big HTH unit for the SM that actually need a transport (as far as i know). From my experience, LR are meant to be the hammer smashing into the opponent's forces, rhino are the ones made for capping objectives.