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Would they win?

In theory, yes, as the Chaos could spawn infinite quantities of Daemons which would eventually overwhelm the Imperial defenders.

(Waiting for fluff-Nazis to shoot me down)

Valk

Y'know, there IS a prophecy about that in the Book of Rhana Dandra within the Black Library of the harlequins.

It mentions something about the 6 Phoenix Lords coming together and the Eldar finally dying out.

Oh, and something else about both the material and immaterial realms being destroyed...

Also, Russ returns, Johnson wakes up, and the Emperor gets his lazya rse out of the Golden Throne.

Haven't they "gotten their stuff together" about 13 times now?

I believe they've tried that. thirteen times in fact... Fourteen if you count that Horus thing.

Turns out that 'Chaos' and 'act together' don't fully mesh.

More serriously, attacking Terra would almost be the easy part. Getting there, through every line of defense, physical and/or otherwise - aye, there's the rub.

Valkyrie wrote:In theory, yes, as the Chaos could spawn infinite quantities of Daemons which would eventually overwhelm the Imperial defenders.

i don't know you'd think that if chaos forces managed to even get to terra in a force large enough to attack terra piles of SM chapters would be sent to defend it. Not to mention the emperors janitor marines (i forget what they're called) and the droves of psykers feeding the emperor which would already be there...

EDIT: janitor marines are the adeptus custodes... don't know how i got those too confused

The above poster is thinking of the Custodes.

And to attack Terra requires getting in through the BACK of the solar system, since that is the only area to transit with the warp. To even get there in number is to use a Gate which is faster than most (I.E. The Boros Gate) and that is HEAVILY defended. On top of this, you'd have to not in fight the whole time (not gonna happen) and they'd have to pile every ship they have to do so. Each of their ships is better crafted than most Imperial models (thanks to lost tech) and therefore being outnumbered wouldn't be a big problem. But we're talking thousands, if not close to a million, ships heading out and about. It's not a feasible thing. Just wait for Cypher to try something instead.

Why...why did you mention Cypher.

So much mystery around him, he may have just destroyed this thread, and turned into "WUT DUZ CERPHER WUNNA DO?!1"

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Really, if they destroyed humanity, nothing would feed them with power, as they're powers come from humanity and its emotions being alive.

Humanity dies, chaos dies, why do you think those black crusades always fail? Chaos will eventually debilitate the Imperium 'till its almost null, and then protect it until its powerful enough to defend itself again, and repeat.

Thats my theory.

The Fallen Raven wrote:Would they win?

Dont think so , knowing Eldar, they would help.

And the Farseers will probably do something and fling orks and tyranids to block the blunt of chaos attacks.

Chaos is winning as we speak, just not in the way mortals achieve this.

Well that and we don't really have 40k anymore if Chaos ever does win. Perhaps the gods simply want to see the universe suffer? Rather then resolve the problem just make it bigger?

It is also clear they don't care much about their followers, not even checking to make sure their blessings don't harm them.

Karon wrote:Why...why did you mention Cypher.

Because his fluff states that he will appear before the Emperor right before the final battle with Chaos, awaken him, and have the Lion Sword reforged by the Big E?

Platuan4th wrote:

Karon wrote:Why...why did you mention Cypher.

Because his fluff states that he will appear before the Emperor right before the final battle with Chaos, awaken him, and have the Lion Sword reforged by the Big E?

No, it doesn't. The fluff says that MAY happen. Or, he may simply wish to plunge his blade into the Big E's back and laugh.

Platuan4th wrote:

Karon wrote:Why...why did you mention Cypher.

Because his fluff states that he will appear before the Emperor right before the final battle with Chaos, awaken him, and have the Lion Sword reforged by the Big E?

Isn't that the plot of Return of the King?

alexwars1 wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Karon wrote:Why...why did you mention Cypher.

Because his fluff states that he will appear before the Emperor right before the final battle with Chaos, awaken him, and have the Lion Sword reforged by the Big E?

Isn't that the plot of Return of the King?

No, because the sword is re-forged in Fellowship. Peter Jackson got it wrong.

They would be obliterated by a huge number of ships located in Sol system and also Terra's got a load of orbital defences.They could overload a warp engine next to Terra and devastate the planet(In one story an Imperial ships which was heavily damaged overloaded warp engines which caused the destruction of the chaos ship and it destroyed all life on a planet nearby).

I would think warp transit would be working on the basis that all the daemons would be pouring out which means more defenders could be brought to protect terra.

Also remember that the whole of the grey knights chapter, most of the adeptus mecanicus and ALLOT of sisters of battle will get in the way if chaos got into the sol sytem.

On the other hand, if cypher turns out to be evil and kills the big E. Then the webway into Terra will be free to go though and loads of daemons will flock to Terra. In short, we don't know what will happen.

The Fallen Raven wrote:Would they win?

They would get slaughtered like sheep at a genestealer barbeque. They can't even fight their way out of the Cadian gate, much less attacked the best defended position in the galaxy. Get them into real space away from their ability to retreat and they will be between the hammer of the incoming Imperial fleets and the anvil of Terra. Thats an Imperium dream come true.

I play chaos so I'd love to say that they would win, but it really isn't certain by any means. Even if they could open infinite portals to allow daemons to pour through, you are forgetting the loyal chaplains/etc that would be closing those portals as fast as they opened. What one believer can do another can undo.

I personally think the writers of the fluff believe the good side will win out, but will they ever really end this storyline and move on? Doubtful.

I'm also of the mind that cypher is working for the side of the emperor (note that isn't the same as the current imperium) and will either awaken him and lead him back into being or stab him and release his spirit into the warp to fight the chaos gods or be reborn.

Firstly they would have to get threw this lot first;

Army of Holy Terra:
(82.758.582 Strong)

Adeptus Custodes:
-10.000 Custodes Total
-Emperor's Personal Guard (300 Custodes)
-Further Organizational Details Classified M31

Legio Ignatum:
-3 Emperor Class Imperator Titans (Crew: 155)
-2 Emperor Class Warmonger Titans (Crew: 125)
-5 Warlord Battle Titans (Crew:32)
-3 Reaver Battle Titans (Crew:25)
-8 Warhound Titans (Crew:12)
-36 Imperial Knights (Crew:1)


60 Armored Divisions (1.003.750 Soldiers per Division)
Each Armored Division Contains:

-1.000 Stormtrooper Regiments
1.000 Stormtroopers per Regiment
100 Chimera Armored Personnel Carriers per Regiment

-5 Armored Regiments (750 Men per Armored Regiment):
200 Leman Russ Tanks per Regiment (20 Demolisher; 40 Exterminator; 140 Standard)
40 Hellhounds per Regiment
2 Superheavy Tanks per Regiment (1 Baneblade; 1 Shadowsword)


Imperial Fleet of Holy Terra:

Battleships:
-10 Emperor Class Battleships (Crew: 500.000)
-10 Victory Class Battleships (Crew: 300.000)
-20 Retribution Class Battleships (Crew: 300.000)
-10 Apocalypse Class Battleships (Crew 300.000)
Cruisers:
-100 Lunar Class Cruisers (Crew: 20.000)
-20 Gothic Class Cruisers (Crew: 25.000)
-10 Mars Class Battlecruisers (Crew: 25.000)
-50 Dominator Class Cruisers (Crew: 25.000)
-20 Armageddon Class Battle Cruisers (Crew: 30.000)
Escort Vessels:
-350 Firestorm Class Frigates (Crew: 800)
-600 Sword Class Frigates (Crew: 800)
-325 Cobra Class Destroyers (Crew: 500)

Terra defence win ^_^

Dats a lotta dakka

Chaos would be able to crush the imperium absolutely if the Dark Gods would pull an Abe Lincoln and keep hiring/firing their generals until they got one that knew what he was doing:

For Cadia: Viral bomb it, then set remains on fire, then start a forward base. You just opened a hole into the Imperium, give New Cadia to the Iron Warriors, and let the loyalist scum try to dig YOU out now.

For the Rest: Strike a deal with the Dark Gods to open up Warp portals near planets whenever they can, launch hit and run raids through out the Imperium, and start "grinding" forward out of Cadia. The Imperium just ran into the same problem it ran into with the Tau: Either we spare the man power to keep this front alive, or we have to some how end the war.

This would withdraw the troops from many places, leaving them open to attack from Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Necrons, Orks, and even the Tau. Even if you fail in destroying the Empire, they are going to be hurting for a longer time than you.

I feel like the Emperor's direct presence may somehow negate Chaos' demonic advantage; his power rivals that of a god, his location in this conflict allows him to exercise this power more directly, and at the very worse he has more psykers to sacrifice.

No aslong as Creed is alive the Imperium cannot fall, and killing Creed is impossible! If you want to kill him you have to outsmart and outmanuever him and everybody knows thats impossible!

Fortunately, thanks to that whole chaos thing, just like the guy who lives in my neighbors garage, they will NEVER get their act together.

If they did manage to get a job, and move out of the garage, they would quickly realize that attacking the home of the guy who whipped their greatest leaders ass (though it did cost him), would probably not be in their best interest.

Old One Eye wrote:No aslong as Creed is alive the Imperium cannot fall, and killing Creed is impossible! If you want to kill him you have to outsmart and outmanuever him and everybody knows thats impossible!

A full frontal attack wouldn't work. Horus got as far as he did because he had three things going for him: half the SM (and did a very good job of keeping a good chunk of the loyalist SM tied up elsewhere), one third of the remaining Imperial forces, and the element of surprise. Nobody expected the armies of humanity to actually turn around and attack Terra, the defences then would have been much lower. And having defenders already there turning on you hurts a lot more than enemies trying to get in through your main gunline.

Some of the mistakes from the HH have now been corrected. Getting a sufficient army of traitors together is much harder due to the separations put in place, so any that fall can be more easily isolated. The garrisoned forces are higher. And people are more paranoid about traitors. As a certain religious war showed, direct brute force isn't going to work, insidious treachery is needed. Although brute force elsewhere makes an admirable distraction. Breaking the Gate would be a hefty military victory that might be eclipsed by the damage is could cause elsewhere.

Here is my question, and i understand its probably stupid, but arent holes in rift caused accidentally by psykers? So with all the millions of psykers on terra why arent there more holes in the rift there for daemons to come through? Anyways why the heck would the daemon gods WANT to finish off the humans? thats the source of their power.

shade1986 wrote:Here is my question, and i understand its probably stupid, but arent holes in rift caused accidentally by psykers? So with all the millions of psykers on terra why arent there more holes in the rift there for daemons to come through? Anyways why the heck would the daemon gods WANT to finish off the humans? thats the source of their power.

No one is saying chaos gods want to finish off humans. They want to finish/subjugate the imperium (aka the "good" space marines + imperial guard + etc) so they can continue the great crusade of purging xenos/mutants/etc.

The Fallen Raven wrote:Would they win?

I would say
1. They have tried to just get out of the eye of terror and got stuck at the cadian gate multiple times.
2. The Imperium is in reality weaker than it was during the heresy
3. It depends who was leading them as Horus literally took over Mars and robbed the imperium of half of its forces while turning them upon terra.
4. No chaos leader has the brains to lead them except abbadon who is a certifiable slow.
5. The eldar would most likely intervene in significant force as they are screwed if they lose their pawns, allies, buffer, and so forth, of the imperium.
6. You have the profecies to deal with concerning the pheonix lords all comin together and the return of various primarchs.
7. The chaos gods are bloated in power from 10k years of 'ONLY WAR'

Taking all these factors into account, there are some significant ifs that need addressing, but unless something big happened on the chaos side, they would lose... badly.

shade1986 wrote:Here is my question, and i understand its probably stupid, but arent holes in rift caused accidentally by psykers? So with all the millions of psykers on terra why arent there more holes in the rift there for daemons to come through? Anyways why the heck would the daemon gods WANT to finish off the humans? thats the source of their power.

The psychers on terra are RIDICULOUSLY watched over and protected by the inquisition and the process up to and including the binding. I think that is a non issue. Consider that Terra used to use 'silent sisters' to watch over the psychers there and on the black ships. I doubt that has completely changed, Sisters of Battle or not.
Demons would not finish off humans but break the imperium up, like before the crusade. This would kill and make sure the emperor stayed dead, stop this much resistance, give them a galaxy amusement park, and so forth.