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So I am practicing making lists for Orks to get the hang of doing a single minded idea that I would like to play at some point, here is the second list I have come up with which is a Badmoons gun line idea.


HQ 1 - Big Mek w/ Shock Attack Gun
HQ 2 - Big Mek w/ Shock Attack Gun

Elite 1 - 10 x Lootas
Elite 2 - 10 x Lootas
Elite 3 - 8x Lootas

Heavy 1 - Battlewagon w/ Kannon, 2 Big Shootas, Deffrolla
Heavy 2 - Looted Wagon w/ Boom Gun
Heavy 3 - Looted Wagon w/ Boom Gun

Fast Attack 1 - 5x Deffkopta w/ 5 TL Rokkits
Fast Attack 2 - 5x Deffkopta w/ 5 TL Rokkits
Fast Attack 3 - 5x Deffkopta w/ 5 TL Rokkits

Troop 1 - 19 Shoota Boys + Nob w/ PK + Twinlinked Shoota - (will be put in the battlewagon)
Troop 2 - 29 Shoota Boys w/ 3 Rokkits + Nob w/ PK + Boss Pole
Troop 3 - 29 Shoota Boys w/ 3 Big Shootas + Nob w/ Pk + Boss Pole
Troop 4 - 29 Shoota Boys w/ 3 Big Shootas + Nob w/ Pk + Boss Pole

Just look at all of that Dakka

Strategy would be to put Lootas in cover at the back lines along with Meks and Boomwagons, Battlewagon will move up the groups of shoota boys pouring fire into the enemy. Deffkoptas will speed along the sides of the map destroying vehicles.

Not bad. Personally, I think Kannon Batteries or Kans FAAARRRR more reliable than Looted Wagons.

Never been a fan of the shokk attack gun, it's strength isn't to be relied on so it's only really for anti infantry.

Kill 2 deffkopters you're forced to take morale which you could flee. I take mine in singles so immune to morale tests

That battlewagon with the killkannon can only move 6" if you want to fire the kannon, if won't be using the deffrolla then so that's kind of messed up. Your boyz won't be going any where or that kannon won't be shooting, a waste of wargear.

Looted wagons are annoying if you do not roll right. As Elessar said they're not reliable.

So you've got one transport moving forward and then boyz every where. The transport will be picked off and then you've got loads of boyz on foot which will struggle to get cover saves and if they do they don't have move through cover. I'd change the meks to have KFFs and change the looted and battle wagons to be killa kanz for a kan wall list with loota fire support. Much better and much more survivable as well as better structured.

If you are going badmoon and your points allow, you NEED flash gitz, single handedly the nastiest shooting we got as orks. Lootas arent bad for the points, but a flash gitz is so much better, not as much range, but can stick em in a BWGN with KFF mek or something so they can move around a bit and still shoot. Just a thought. Lootas aren't terrible, but nor are they very good, only ap4, 50% the time you hit with a flash gitz your opponent wont get an armor save if you blasty,shooty,dakka them up. The ability to take away all armor saves, and they can fight well too, being nobs, a painboy to help offset gets hot if you tweak em up, allows you 2 chances at rolling 4+ to not take a wound <hvy armor> 10 Flash gitz shooting at anything is pretty much a dead <insert target here> Otherwise i agree with all other points, kans>looted wagon, i'd drop 1 SAG and replace with KFF to shield killa kans and seperate chopas.

Warlordron'swaagh wrote:If you are going badmoon and your points allow, you NEED flash gitz, single handedly the nastiest shooting we got as orks. Lootas arent bad for the points, but a flash gitz is so much better, not as much range, but can stick em in a BWGN with KFF mek or something so they can move around a bit and still shoot. Just a thought.

What? Flash gitz are the single-handed worst unit in the codex. In 5th edition, everything can get a cover save with little effort - what makes you want to spend points on a gun that might have an AP value, instead of more shots and more wounds in shoota boyz.

Redbeard wrote:

Warlordron'swaagh wrote:If you are going badmoon and your points allow, you NEED flash gitz, single handedly the nastiest shooting we got as orks. Lootas arent bad for the points, but a flash gitz is so much better, not as much range, but can stick em in a BWGN with KFF mek or something so they can move around a bit and still shoot. Just a thought.

What? Flash gitz are the single-handed worst unit in the codex. In 5th edition, everything can get a cover save with little effort - what makes you want to spend points on a gun that might have an AP value, instead of more shots and more wounds in shoota boyz.

QFT. I don't understand anyone who thinks Flash Gitz aren't horrible. Lobbas are worse though. lol

Thats a tactics issue more so then anything else. The purpose of putting them in the battlewagon is to be able to move them some where advantageous, and preferably in the open, whilst using a kff to give yourself a cover save . Make them come to you, and pick em off, the creatures that typically give orks a hard time, i.e. monstrous creatures and the like, cannot get cover so easily. Never underestimate the ability to measure before declaring shots too, by proper placement you can figure out from the measurements tothe gitz how far everyone else is. For example, BWGN is open topped, give it a DR and charge throuh a unit, have gitz then get out, and shoot whats left, they wont be in cover more then likely at that point. Use them for chokepoints where the enemy is forced to come closer, such as guarding an objective. My gitz have ALWAYS scored me their points at a minimum, and on once occasion, they single handedly wiped out, in round, a brood of carnifex, a maxed squad of necron scarabs and (I can never remember the name, the small tyranids with the scythe claws) a unit of 15 tyranids melee bugs. They destroyed, completly, both groups. I have never seen a single orc unit cause that much carnage, all I lost in that mess was 1 flash gitz. If you dont like them, thats fine. Maybe you don't know how to maximize their potential, thats cool too. Thats why this forums are for opinions and ideas, if you dont like mine thats fine, you ain't gonna hurt my feelings. I gave my two cents, and weighed back in, but not gonna let this turn into a thread jacking, so i won't reply any more on the flash gitz, all i ask is dont write them off, they are quite powerful when played correctly as intended. Ciao'

Can't.....read.......block.......of text. Looted wagons suck especially if you have given them boomguns. Not a fan of deffkoptas.

I like all the Dakka.

Coptas in large squads like that will run easily, instead use two per unit, and give one a BuzzSaw, slam them in and get a tank or 3. They may not survive, but probably they will not flee either.

I love looted wagons, BUT mine always let me down, bring them for fun - but don't depend on them! - Instead run some big guns and put your SAG Mek with them.

I'd change your heavy slots to 3X Big Cannons (for the Mek), 3x Grotzooka Kans (for the cover save) and then either Gits, or... more Kans (with a KFF Mek)... or 3 more Cannons for the other SAG Mek!

I am working on a similar list - and the Flash Gits will be in it. (I just finished them up) Just like a looted wagon, though - bring em for fun!

Good shooting!

Warlordron'swaagh wrote:Thats a tactics issue more so then anything else. The purpose of putting them in the battlewagon is to be able to move them some where advantageous, and preferably in the open, whilst using a kff to give yourself a cover save . Make them come to you, and pick em off, the creatures that typically give orks a hard time, i.e. monstrous creatures and the like, cannot get cover so easily. Never underestimate the ability to measure before declaring shots too, by proper placement you can figure out from the measurements tothe gitz how far everyone else is. For example, BWGN is open topped, give it a DR and charge throuh a unit, have gitz then get out, and shoot whats left, they wont be in cover more then likely at that point. Use them for chokepoints where the enemy is forced to come closer, such as guarding an objective. My gitz have ALWAYS scored me their points at a minimum, and on once occasion, they single handedly wiped out, in round, a brood of carnifex, a maxed squad of necron scarabs and (I can never remember the name, the small tyranids with the scythe claws) a unit of 15 tyranids melee bugs. They destroyed, completly, both groups. I have never seen a single orc unit cause that much carnage, all I lost in that mess was 1 flash gitz. If you dont like them, thats fine. Maybe you don't know how to maximize their potential, thats cool too. Thats why this forums are for opinions and ideas, if you dont like mine thats fine, you ain't gonna hurt my feelings. I gave my two cents, and weighed back in, but not gonna let this turn into a thread jacking, so i won't reply any more on the flash gitz, all i ask is dont write them off, they are quite powerful when played correctly as intended. Ciao'

I call shenanigans. You are clearly a living April Fools Joke.

(When I thought that line up, I had to use it...)

I once used a squad of Flash Gitz to devestating effect... The made a squad of termis break and ATSKNF.... like 5 times =_= (didn't even kill them by the end)

18" is not an acceptable range for a gunline army. Drop your troops options down to minimum.

SAGs are terrible. I never hit with them, and you've got a 1 in 12 chance of it killing itself.

Looted Wagons with Boomguns are pretty good, but if I were playing it, I'd have saved myself a lot of points by dropping those Shootas, and I'd invest in some Battlewagon Gun Boats.

KFF Meks are necessary if you plan on being shot at a lot, which it sounds like you do.

Here's what I would field:

KFF Mek, Ammo Runt - 90
SAG Mek, Ammo Runt - 100
---
180

Lootas x10 - 150
Lootas x12 - 180
Lootas x12 - 180
---
510

Battlewagon - Killkannon, Cannon, 4 Big Shootas - 180
Battlewagon - Killkannon, Cannon, 4 Big Shootas - 180
Battlewagon - Killkannon, Cannon, 4 Big Shootas - 180
---
540

Deff Dread - KMB, KMB - 105
Deff Dread - KMB, KMB - 105
Shoota Boyz x17, Rokkit Boyz x2, PK Nob - 175
Shoota Boyz x17, Rokkit Boyz x2, PK Nob - 175

Very effective gunline; fit the Lootas into the Battlewagons, stick the Deff Dreads in front of the Shoota Boyz and next to the Battlewagons, stand still, shoot as much as you can at whatever's the biggest threat every turn. Additionally, you can detach your Shoota Boyz to go collect Objectives if necessary. Both Meks are stuck in one Battlewagon so the SAG can benefit from both Ammo Runts.

Oh, more importantly, this is only 2000 points. I didn't realize you were aiming for 2500. Throw in 500 points of Deffkoptas or something, I don't know. For 500 points you can field two units of 5 Deffkoptas with TL Rokkits and one Buzzsaw. Outflank with them and kill your opponent's most important crap.

On a more related note, this is a good setup for somebody fielding Bad Moons; vehicles with just gobs of weapons, expensive tech, that sort of thing.

Kustom Mega-Blastas SUCK. They are the slowed offspring of the Plasma Cannon and the Meltagun, with the benefits of neither.

Rokkits would be better, or even Big Shootas.

For five extra points I'm willing to invest in them on a Deff Dread who can't suffer the effects of Gets Hot! if it gives them AP2. That's no Feel No Pain, no We'll Be Back, that's a potentially dead Terminator or two before the assault...

Just to be clear you're telling us a 24" range assault 1 weapon wielded buy a BS 2 guy is going to 'kill' one or two termis before they assault you?
I challenge your Mathhammer~!

They have the same range and BS as a Rokkit Launcha would have, why not discount those while you're at it?

One shot with a KMB has a 1/3 chance of hitting, a 5/6 chance of killing outright; a 2/3 chance of failing an invulnerable save, that's about a 20% (10/54) chance of killing a terminator, higher (5/18) if there's no invuln save. KMBS, as already mentioned, ignore FNP, WBB, and can even (if lucky) tap Armor, with the same strength, range, and BS as a Rokkit Launcha. Two shots is a 40% (20/54) chance, and I'm willing to make those shots.

One shot with a Big Shoota has a 1/3 chance of hitting, a 2/3 chance of wounding, but only a 1/6 chance of actually dealing a single wound; not considering multiple wound models, FNP, WBB, anything else those crafty TEQs might have. That's approximately a 5% (2/54) chance of dealing a wound, six shots is about 30% (12/54) chance, and can't hurt anything but the lightest Armour. The only benefit is the 36" range, which this army really doesn't need.

There's your Mathhammer.

Just a couple of side things. It's only a 1 in 36 chance to kill yourself with a Big Mek by rolling a double 1. 2 in 36 chance if you count the zoink teleporting into assault as killing yourself as well. (pretty true often)

Your SAG cannot benefit from the ammo runt on the KFF Mek as ammo runts are taken by a specific model and "A model with an ammo runt is allowed to re-roll one to hit roll for a shooting attack..."

Icehawk18 wrote:Just a couple of side things. It's only a 1 in 36 chance to kill yourself with a Big Mek by rolling a double 1. 2 in 36 chance if you count the zoink teleporting into assault as killing yourself as well. (pretty true often)

Your SAG cannot benefit from the ammo runt on the KFF Mek as ammo runts are taken by a specific model and "A model with an ammo runt is allowed to re-roll one to hit roll for a shooting attack..."

And 2s, if your opponent decides to declare the SAG's unit the target, although I suppose that's only a big deal if you're not inside some Armour.

And that's unfortunate about the Ammo Runts, I was always of the impression that anybody in a unit could use them if they were there. Thanks for the heads up.

Frosty Hardtop wrote:They have the same range and BS as a Rokkit Launcha would have, why not discount those while you're at it?

One shot with a KMB has a 1/3 chance of hitting, a 5/6 chance of killing outright; a 2/3 chance of failing an invulnerable save, that's about a 20% (10/54) chance of killing a terminator, higher (5/18) if there's no invuln save. KMBS, as already mentioned, ignore FNP, WBB, and can even (if lucky) tap Armor, with the same strength, range, and BS as a Rokkit Launcha. Two shots is a 40% (20/54) chance, and I'm willing to make those shots.

One shot with a Big Shoota has a 1/3 chance of hitting, a 2/3 chance of wounding, but only a 1/6 chance of actually dealing a single wound; not considering multiple wound models, FNP, WBB, anything else those crafty TEQs might have. That's approximately a 5% (2/54) chance of dealing a wound, six shots is about 30% (12/54) chance, and can't hurt anything but the lightest Armour. The only benefit is the 36" range, which this army really doesn't need.

There's your Mathhammer.

Now a KMB has an 18.5% chance of deding a termi, a Rokkit ~4.6%. With two shots the chances are 37% (Not 40) and 9.3%. Yes KMB are 200% as effective at kill TEQs _Assuming they don't have SS_

So, I don't discount RL for two reasons 1) +1str 2) 5 points (33%) cheaper than a KMB. Means you Can instant kill Tough - 4 and you can penetrate AV 13.
In fact if you're shooting at practically anything but TEQs (Who don't have SS) then the KMB is a worse choice - and more expensive.

Also
Two big shootas actually have a 16.66% chance of deding a Termi...With the extra 12" range so think about that too.

Big Shootas are more versatile...but I'd actually recommend Skorchas as first choice.

15 x burnas on terminators would be the best bet if we're talking about killing terminators here That's 15 x 5 wounds = 75 wounds!

Not so much Mercer - cos if they're that close, you're already dead!

Not when you're in a battlewagon, King

ChrisCP wrote:
So, I don't discount RL for two reasons 1) +1str 2) 5 points (33%) cheaper than a KMB. Means you Can instant kill Tough - 4 and you can penetrate AV 13.
In fact if you're shooting at practically anything but TEQs (Who don't have SS) then the KMB is a worse choice - and more expensive.

KMBs and Rokkit Launchas are both STR 8.

KMB - 24", STR 8, AP 2, Assault 1, Gets Hot!
Rokkit Lancha - 24", STR 8, AP 3, Assault 1

They're exactly the same, one just has a lower AP.

I think at the end of the day, the KMB just comes down to a matter of taste; I think the AP2 is worth the extra 5 points, and you don't.

1 less AP is always worth it.

mercer wrote:Not when you're in a battlewagon, King

Yessum. TH/SS will charge your Wagon from 20" away, and you'll all die in the fire.

I agree with Warlordorn on some things. I think hes over doing it a bit on the FlashGits fanboi-ism


I personally LOVE FlashGits, they CAN dish out alot of F-U when the circumstances are right. I WOULD NOT however give them all 3 upgrades, take blasta and throw it in the garbage. It sounds good on paper but you WILL roll alot of 1s and you WILL kill off your gits, never a good thing, specially at 35pts a mini. Ive been using them for the last few games and they dish out alot of bullets, so when you roll a good AP they seriously kill things. But look at them as more an anti infantry unit, instead of the typical anti armor that heavies are.


Anywho onto BW things. I agree that you either have the deffrolla OR the killkannon. Personally Id nix the cannon and go with the rolla. Why? Because the str7 kill kannon will be harder to tag vehicles with. Sure it has a range on it, but you still can only move 6 inches at a time and you cannot fire anything else, not only that but it can get a weapon destroyed result.
Where as a deffrolla cannot get a destroyed result, AND does d6 str10 attacks on armor. You just gotta ram this pooh out of things. Best of all, if you leave it open topped, and you do pop a vehicle, then the unit inside is now out, and able to be assaulted the next turn, as well as being shot up first from the BW guns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Elessar wrote:

mercer wrote:Not when you're in a battlewagon, King

Yessum. TH/SS will charge your Wagon from 20" away, and you'll all die in the fire.

Well in a perfect set up yea. BUT the thing is, if they are in the BW and your close enough to burninate them, then Im pretty sure you wont have to worry about a group of termies killing everything. Now Im not saying they will ALL die(though that many wounds its very likely) there wont be enough left to be scared of thats for sure.

People seem to forget that no matter how good an armor save is, if you have to roll it enough times it will fail to save you everytime

Why would you ever put guns on a Deffdread? If your talking about killing TH/SS termies just take two more DCCW's you strike first, should kill two or three before they hit, and when they do hit, (counting 3 left, with assaulting attacks), 4-5 hits, 1 or two glancing or penetrating hits, maybe you get killed. You've already killed close to your pts worth, plus if you survive first round you'll probably win.

Trust me, mercer is spot on about burna's. I never leave home without a full squad in a BW. They have never failed to return their investment, except when I've done so well everything was dead before they got there... And if that happens who cares?

75 armor saves on 10 termis will do it almost every time. Also say they do blow up the battle wagon (say there are 2-3 termis left) lootas get hit have to take a wound from the explosion armor saves blah blah blah. You will still have 3-4 burnas, thats another turn of burning the termis that just destroyed your ride. Burnas may be one of the best ways to take out large groups of termis, I know few other good ways.