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Okay so I'm at a pivotal point in collecting my sisters army and was wondering if anyone could offer any insight into which direction I should go.

I was thinking of either making a Rage Army or an all Sister shooty faith point army.

The rage army, which sounded more fun but probably is not as good, would have:

Inquisitor Lord with Retinue in LR
3 Sisters Squads in Rhinos
Sisters Repentia
Arco Flagellants
Priests in every squad
9 Penitent Engines

It sounds like it would be fun in theory, but in practice it would more than likely get shot up before it got close to anyone.

The other army list would have:

Cannoness
Saint Celestine w/ Seraphim
4 Sisters Squads in Rhinos
Sisters Repentia
3 Exorcists

This list gives me mad faith points and increased mobility.

Any suggestions on additions to the rosters or which do you think would be the most viable?

11 Immolators, carrying Stormtroopers, Celestians, and Dominions. Each with 2x Meltagun. Final Destination.

I don't know what a pertinent engine is, but it sounds, well, pertinent...

In any event, avoid repentia - they are very cool, but not even remotely worth the points. I'd also avoid Celestine, she's crazy-expensive for what she does*.

Finally, fielding three Exorcists is considered somewhat beardy.

Okay, that's what not to do...

You can't go wrong with your basic Battle sister squad, VSS, Book of St. Lucius, Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, Rhino. For all-round style and effectiveness, you can't top them.

Personally, I like dominions (VSS, 4x Flamer and Litanies of Faith if I have the points) in an Immolator. They are an aquired taste, but that many flamers (possibly with Rending) can spoil anyone's day.

You may want to employ some Celestians (also in an Immolator) too. They are about as good as sisters get in assault (which is not very) and a much better bet than Repentia.


*What she does is come back from the dead - which I won't deny is cool, but I can't justify her cost, sorry.

Stoic Kiwi wrote:Okay so I'm at a pivotal point in collecting my sisters army and was wondering if anyone could offer any insight into which direction I should go.

I was thinking of either making a Rage Army or an all Sister shooty faith point army.

The rage army, which sounded more fun but probably is not as good, would have:

Inquisitor Lord with Retinue in LR
3 Sisters Squads in Rhinos
Sisters Repentia
Arco Flagellants
Priests in every squad
9 Pertinent Engines

It sounds like it would be fun in theory, but in practice it would more than likely get shot up before it got close to anyone.

The other army list would have:

Cannoness
Saint Celestine w/ Seraphim
4 Sisters Squads in Rhinos
Sisters Repentia
3 Exorcists

This list gives me mad faith points and increased mobility.

Any suggestions on additions to the rosters or which do you think would be the most viable?

Both lists are terrible. The first one is much much more terrible. The second one, the only real dark stain is the Repentia. Also, Celestine by herself is silly, give her a Seraphim retinue, or better yet don't use her, she's too expensive, and she costs too much faith when she dies.

A 5th edition list needs more anti-tank than the traditional mech SoB build brings. I suggest a minimum of 3x 5 girl squads in Immolators with 2x meltaguns each. I would normally go with 4x immolators, one Palatine with retinue and 3x Celestian units. They are great tank hunters and they still pack anti-infantry punch with the immolator. I would not use Repentia under any circumstances. The days of the solo jump canoness are over as well. She was good back when she could charge the corner of a unit and only fight three guys. But with Defenders React she'll be pulled down even by basic tac Marines. Jump canonesses are a unit used by noobs against other noobs, no offense. Outside of that context they are just not any good in 5th ed.

A jump cannoness can't really handle anything beyond a basic tac sqaud, true. And even a tac squad requires the 2+ save. But I think she could still worth it over Palatines. It is a faith point, and you could spend the points to make her sufficiently decent at melee and stuff her in a leading transport to make the unit more painful to fight when charged.

Repentia and all the other freakshow units are really fragile and won't live to do anything very often. Repentia in specific have enough trouble living to swing in melee, much less being shot to death.

MagicJuggler wrote:11 Immolators, carrying Stormtroopers, Celestians, and Dominions. Each with 2x Meltagun. Final

Laughably weak army, however.

Immolators are autocannon fodder and far too expensive for what they do, especially if you're transporting an entire army using only Immolators. Stormtroopers are hilariously weak and easy to destroy making the army have no scoring units very quickly (and you'd only have three of them if you want to transport them in Immolators). Dominians are vastly overpriced, and Celestians are slightly overpriced.

Ignore the Inquisitorial units, they suck in comparison to getting more Sisters.

The absolute best and most efficient Sisters army is the following:

Canoness (two kinds-- jump pack or celestian retinue)
4-6 Mechanized Battle Sister Squads (heavy flamer, meltagun, vet w/bolter or combiflamer, book)
2-3 Exorcists
0-1 Retributors with 4x Heavy Bolters (Vet with book and bolter)

And then either Celestians or Seraphim depending on taste and what the Canoness is equipped with (Seraphim for a jump pack Canoness).


Do whatever's fun for you, though. What is efficient and competitive is not fun for everyone, and tactical skill and luck both matter quite a bit in 40k.

The Grog wrote:A jump cannoness can't really handle anything beyond a basic tac sqaud, true. And even a tac squad requires the 2+ save. But I think she could still worth it over Palatines. It is a faith point, and you could spend the points to make her sufficiently decent at melee and stuff her in a leading transport to make the unit more painful to fight when charged.

Canoness worth it over a Palatine? Sure, if you have the points. Just don't sacrifice your army's real power to get a close combat Canoness. WS4 = poo for a close combat character, with or without a 2+ invuln. Jumping = also poo.

Azezel wrote:I don't know what a pertinent engine is, but it sounds, well, pertinent...

Haha sorry about the misspelling, I fixed that now

MagicJuggler wrote:11 Immolators, carrying Stormtroopers, Celestians, and Dominions. Each with 2x Meltagun. Final

I don't know if I would try that. Although it looks cool to have tons of little tanks on the battlefield, I've seen an SM guy try this with Rhinos and he did decent until the KP game...

Ixe wrote:Both lists are terrible.

Thanks for being honest.


So the general consensus for the second list is to drop celestine, the repentia, and to use immolators instead of Rhinos?
I didn't really see too much difference in using immolators and rhinos since the reduced carrying capacity.

Also, several people mentioned Retributor squads, are they really that good with HB's?


Sorry if I come off as unknowledgable with the SoB's, I have only played Necrons in 5th and Orks and Chaos in 4th so I don't have too much experience with Imperial Armies.

No, don't use immolators. They're WAY too expensive for what they do. Stick with Battle Sister Squads in rhinos as the majority of your force if you intend to be competitive. If you don't care about being competitive, then sure, take ISTs or Immolators...

Retributor squads with 4 HBs are a decent source of long-ranged anti-horde firepower. The only source of it, for Sisters.

Ixe wrote:Canoness worth it over a Palatine?

Palatines are worthless. Ten points more and you get an extra wound, higher leadership, an extra faith point, and an extra attack. Always take Canonesses.

Melissia wrote:No, don't use immolators. They're WAY too expensive for what they do. Stick with Battle Sister Squads in rhinos as the majority of your force if you intend to be competitive. If you don't care about being competitive, then sure, take ISTs or Immolators...

I've never once in 3 years ever NOT had an Immolator earn back its points. It's definitely competetive & someone at another LGS around here placed at 'Ard Boyz with Immolator spam.

A Cannoness retinue with a transport might as well take an Immolator over a Rhino, and 90% of the lists I've seen that were "competetive" have Immolators.

It's a freaking Heavy Flamer that re-rolls to wound after moving 12". Much better than a Storm Bolter.

Of course, everyone has their own opinion, but don't go telling this poor kid that Immolators are worthless, when that is far from the truth in a lot of situations.

radical bob wrote:I've never once in 3 years ever NOT had an Immolator earn back its points.

Then you're either unbelievably lucky or you're fighting gakky opponents. Immolators are useful as transports to the Canoness' retinue, yes, but even then they're fire magnets; it's VERY easy to destroy it with its AV11 front armor, and there goes ~70 points of transport (assuming you purchased smoke). If your opponents are unable to destroy the immolator before it can do any damage, then they probably suck. A single autocannon sentinel can do that easily enough, nevermind a heavy weapons squad, predator tank, etc etc.

Personally, I prefer to instead beef up the retinue to eight celestians, a celestian superior with eviscerator, and the Canoness. The main purpose of a transport is to get the unit inside from point A to point B anyway. Especially using Imperial Armour rules, this is FAR better-- the Immolator ends up costing almost twice as much as a Rhino.

Is that so? *A* BS 4 Lascannon has about a 15% chance of destroying *or* Immobilizng a Rhino in cover. This ups to about 38% percent for three Lascannons. The odds of 3 groups of 3, destroying *or* immobilizing 3 Immolators would thus be 5% before you account for grouping effects. This same argument was had over whether Obliterators were effective in demeching a foe.

An Immo is easy to destroy. 11, not so much.

Thanks for all of the input everyone, especially Melissia.
The army list you suggested seems the most well-rounded and versatile.

So I just did 2000 point list based off what you said:

1 Canoness with Flamer Celestian squad in Rhino (vet with Eviscerator)
4 Battle Sister Squads in Rhinos (2 with Flamers, 2 with Meltas vets with combi-flamer or combi-melta and BoSLs)
1 Seraphim Squad with 2 flamers (vet with Eviserator)
1 Retributor Squad with 4 HB
2 Exorcists

All for exactly 2000 points.

Thanks for the advice again, I think this will be a great list!

MagicJuggler wrote:Immobilizng a Rhino in cover.

Which requires you to get the first turn. If not, you have to put your units in reserves to protect them, giving your opponent more than enough time to prepare for their arrival (if they arrive at all).

Rhinos are half the cost of an immolator using FW rules, which most people allow (I don't play tournies to begin with, they have a very skewed metagame and a frequently very rules-lawyer player base). And they're just as hard/easy to kill. And furthermore, ten Battle Sisters instead of six Celestians means that you can capture an objective, and they can use Acts of Faith anyway unlike that TL heavy flamer on the immolator.

Some people here, *do* play tournaments though. Actually, quite a few people here play tournaments. Giving advice designed for "Requires opponent Permission" isn't helpful. If I wanted to, I could say "Why, the best way for Orks to deal with mechspam would be to take dual Big Meks and 5 Mek Junkas with Deffrollas," but the moment I call that a competitive rather than a hobby army would be...next Ork Codex in the future?

With only 6 meltaguns in your *entire* army and minor ranged support for taking out enemy light armor assuming you're lucky then and there, your "absolute best list" is really quite overfocused on dealing with infantry. It'll do well assuming your opponent doesn't mech up (guess what? Mech is still the rage), but a good army isn't based on assumptions. What happens when you run into a Guard list that attritions you down by having more vehicles than you can possibly slog through?

But go ahead. Say that spending 150 points per meltagun is uber.

Stoic Kiwi wrote:Thanks for all of the input everyone, especially Melissia.
The army list you suggested seems the most well-rounded and versatile.

So I just did 2000 point list based off what you said:

1 Canoness with Flamer Celestian squad in Rhino (vet with Eviscerator)
4 Battle Sister Squads in Rhinos (2 with Flamers, 2 with Meltas vets with combi-flamer or combi-melta and BoSLs)
2 Exorcists
1 Seraphim Squad with 2 flamers (vet with Eviserator)
1 Retributor Squad with 4 HB
2 Exorcists

All for exactly 2000 points.

Thanks for the advice again, I think this will be a great list!

Before you listen particularly to one person, you might want to notice how that one person doesn't play tournaments, and adjust your thinking accordingly. I'm not saying Melissa's advice is wrong, I'm just saying that it's perhaps not tuned to the utmost 5th ed competitive standard.

Don't use Retributors. In a mech list, it's very difficult to give them open fire lanes. And if they do have open fire lanes, they're just gonna get shot to pieces. Believe it or not, the weakness of SoB is anti-troop fire, because of our T3. Retributors are gonna eat all of the enemy's anti-troop in the early game because the other models will be in or hiding behind rhinos. Retributors can't hide because if they're hiding they're not firing, i.e. a big waste of points. A second Seraphim squad would help your list more than the Retributors. So would a third Exorcist.

Never take a Battle Sister Squad without a heavy flamer. It's just a huge waste. You go from having a squad that can single-handedly wipe out anything with a 4+ save to a squad that's gonna be a bit of a wet noodle against 4+ saves.

I personally recommend running at least a few immolators with 5 Celestians and 2x melta inside. It works very well for tank hunting, and the immolator is an amazing tank. You don't have to spam them, but do consider using a few of them.

Failing that, try to get double melta on as many units as possible. You need double melta squads for tank hunting if you want to survive in 5th edition mechanized craziness. If you absolutely won't take any 2x melta Celestians, I would grab some Battle Sisters with Heavy Flamer, Melta, Combi-melta. Don't waste the heavy flamer slot because it adds a lot of anti-troop punch, but don't sally forth with just a single melta. It was fine in 4th ed, but it's not fine anymore. It gets expensive, but if you want an army based around a solid Battle Sisters core, the combo of choice is heavy flamer + melta + brazier + combi-melta. This gives you amazing versatility, the ability to rack up tons of hits for hitting infantry, without giving up some pretty nasty tank hunting. If you're short on points, I would drop the brazier first. Infantry usually go down to Sisters even without stacking on the double flame templates, but tanks in 5th ed NEED to be stopped or you will get pwed. Especially because your 58 point 3rd ed rhinos are not going to last all that long unless you get super lucky. If the enemy has you out of transports before you have him out, you're boned.

Ixe:
Thanks for the input.
I was questioning the retributor squad since they would really be the only stationary, non-mechanized squad in my whole army (at least the Seraphim are jump).

It does make sense to drop a HF in each squad and melta-up. I notice that almost every time I lose, it is because of armour or CC. So having an HF and 2 meltas in a squad could really help with that.

I really was thinking about 3 Exorcists in the list as well. I'm sure it is nothing but Cheese, but they would be great at knocking out armour and heavy infantry with the AP1. Plus, they're the longest range unit the sisters have really.

A second Seraphim squad would also bolster the CC capabilities of the SoB as well. They've been kind of hit or miss when I've employed them but I can see how with proper support, they could level lines of annoying shooty infantry.

Stoic Kiwi wrote:
I really was thinking about 3 Exorcists in the list as well. I'm sure it is nothing but Cheese, but they would be great at knocking out armour and heavy infantry with the AP1. Plus, they're the longest range unit the sisters have really.

A second Seraphim squad would also bolster the CC capabilities of the SoB as well. They've been kind of hit or miss when I've employed them but I can see how with proper support, they could level lines of annoying shooty infantry.

3 Exorcists is not cheese. It's one of the only ways to go heavy that isn't Immo spam. Retributors just aren't what they used to be.

Seraphim are great units but a little overcosted. Just an FYI


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ixe wrote:

Snip 5th ed competitiveness

Snip Retrib

Snip HF Advice

Snip Celestians w/2xMelta

Snip Double

I second all of Ixe's points

Immolators are good if and only if you can give them cover with your other Rhinos, or simply field too many to kill.

Retributors may do ok. Most everything that is S6 or better will be shooting Rhino hulls. The question is more 'do you need HBs', and I'd venture the answer is no. There isn't a lot you can't burn to death faster and more efficiently. If you do field them, it is very important that you can put them somewhere with good LOS that you won't have to trample over with your rhinos. That last part is the trick. Cover is less important, as most AP 3 weapons are also high S and will be busy shooting Rhinos. If somebody wants to throw missiles and such at your Retributors that is probably good for you. I see no reason whatsoever to take MMs. If only they could have missiles or heavy flamers ...

I am yet unconvinced that you can't meet your melta needs with combis, Celestians, and Dominions and stick to unsplit special weapons choices, but other people make it work. 2 melta celestians are cheaper than 2 melta dominions, and f/hf sisters are better than 2 flamer dominions. BUT, if you somehow really need more special weapons, 4 melta dominions are cheaper than a pair of 2 melta celestian squads. So if you really need to kill MCs, they and the otherwise laughable bolter-stake crossbow are options. I'm not really sure what you'd need 4 flamer templates to kill though.

Ixe wrote:Before you listen particularly to one person, you might want to notice how that one person doesn't play tournaments, and adjust your thinking accordingly. I'm not saying Melissa's advice is wrong, I'm just saying that it's perhaps not tuned to the utmost 5th ed competitive standard.

Au contraire, my lists are quite efficient. But this isn't a list I designed, I don't like to make lists for other people...

Don't use Retributors [...]In a mech list
I agree with this actually. I like Retributors, but unless you somehow manage to get them on a hill or somesuch, they'd have a hard time having line of sight. I said 0-1 only because they can be helpful against a horde army, it's dependent VERY heavily on your local metagame. A third exorcist would be better against mech lists and MEQ lists-- don't forget, an exorcist barrage is just as deadly against MEQ as it is against tank. In fact, it's recommended you use Exorcists to deal with nobz, because it instantly kills them and thus nullifies their two wound advantage.

Never take a Battle Sister Squad without a heavy flamer.
Another good piece of advice.

If you're short on points, I would drop the brazier first.
Indeed. I would reccomend only using the Brazier as an alternative to the Combiflamer (you get the extra attack in close combat from having two CCWs). If you need anti-tank, drop it and take a combimelta instead.

The Grog wrote:
I am yet unconvinced that you can't meet your melta needs with combis, Celestians, and Dominions and stick to unsplit special weapons choices, but other people make it work. 2 melta celestians are cheaper than 2 melta dominions, and f/hf sisters are better than 2 flamer dominions. BUT, if you somehow really need more special weapons, 4 melta dominions are cheaper than a pair of 2 melta celestian squads. So if you really need to kill MCs, they and the otherwise laughable bolter-stake crossbow are options. I'm not really sure what you'd need 4 flamer templates to kill though.

Of course 4x melta Dominions are cheaper than 2x2 double melta Celestians. That's because they are not as good. 4x melta dominions might as well be painted in a nice red and white target color scheme. All it takes is one lucky anti-tank shot, and they're grounded. And when they do reach the enemy, they can only hit one tank. And they have only 1 casualty before they start losing meltaguns. Plus, they don't give Faith and they're only LD8 without a VSS, and a VSS reduces any price advantage they have. 2x2 double melta Celestians have double the transports, can attack two different targets, and can take more casualties without losing a melta, not to mention they still have just as much firepower if they choose to converge on a target.

Melissia wrote:

Ixe wrote:Before you listen particularly to one person, you might want to notice how that one person doesn't play tournaments, and adjust your thinking accordingly. I'm not saying Melissa's advice is wrong, I'm just saying that it's perhaps not tuned to the utmost 5th ed competitive standard.

Au contraire, my lists are quite efficient. But this isn't a list I designed, I don't like to make lists for other people...

I think most of your advice is correct, I just disagree with your overall list structure of maxing out Battle Sisters. That was how you won in 4th ed, when mech was less of a problem. In 5th ed, you NEED more meltaguns than Battle Sisters can provide (unless you go with heavy flamer/melta/combi-melta).

The metagame is different in every locale, both competitive metagame and otherwise. The idea of a global metagame is a lie.

An all-comers list has to take all comers. Though you might have a different local metagame, you need an all-comers list unless you have a small, defined circle of opponents whose lists you know. And if you do, then you're not playing to a metagame, you're tailoring to beat specific opponents, and your advice is not generalizable to all comers lists.

5th ed rewards transports tremendously, in addition to making them very cheap for all the 5th ed current codices. It doesn't take a genius to see that a mech list pretty much stomps any non-mech list, with the obvious exception of a few alternatives like Tyranids, Blood Angles jumpers, Space Marine bikers, etc. If you want to face all comers, you NEED reliable anti-tank, and you need enough of it to be able to crush a transport spam. Maybe if mechanized armies are rare locally, you don't need 12 meltaguns, maybe you can make do with 8 or 10. But you can't have none, or like 3-4, because that will fall flat against a transport spam, and you're trying to beat all comers, including a transport spam. And the great thing about meltas is they're also tremendously threatening to monstrous creatures, and they're not bad against heavy troops either.

The only alternative to 12 meltaguns I would ensorse would be maybe 6 melta and 6 plasma guns. Plasma is nice because it can still pwn AV10 and 11 while being more threatening against infantry. Of course the only way to get that much plasma is with ISTs and Inquisitors, which generally make for an inferior list to pure Sisters.

I know they are. But what is a take all comers list even in one specific metroplex (this one has a population just shy of seven million people) isn't as much in another high density location.

Frankly, I dislike combi-meltas as a rule, and if I REALLY need that transport popped RIGHT NOW, I'll use my three exorcists rather than spend fifteen points on a one-shot weapon that has a good chance of doing just about nothing. This has worked quite well for me.

Melissia wrote:The metagame is different in every locale, both competitive metagame and otherwise. The idea of a global metagame is a lie.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, your wrong.

When the leafblower took 'Ard Boyz, a large amount of people started leafblower lists.

And in general, the new codexes spit out a good amount of players playing certain arch-types of the new books.

That is the "global metagame".

Melissia wrote:

Ixe wrote:Before you listen particularly to one person, you might want to notice how that one person doesn't play tournaments, and adjust your thinking accordingly. I'm not saying Melissa's advice is wrong, I'm just saying that it's perhaps not tuned to the utmost 5th ed competitive standard.

Au contraire, my lists are quite efficient. But this isn't a list I designed, I don't like to make lists for other people...

Don't use Retributors [...]In a mech list
I agree with this

...

Ignore the Inquisitorial units, they suck in comparison to getting more Sisters.

The absolute best and most efficient Sisters army is the following:

Canoness (two kinds-- jump pack or celestian retinue)
4-6 Mechanized Battle Sister Squads (heavy flamer, meltagun, vet w/bolter or combiflamer, book)
2-3 Exorcists
0-1 Retributors with 4x Heavy Bolters (Vet with book and bolter)

...WOW

You walk around like a god of the WH codex, yet I can swear you don't play them, hell I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't play warhammer 40,000 at all.

......

@OP
Listen to Ixe.

Melissia wrote:
Then you're either unbelievably lucky or you're fighting gakky opponents. Immolators are useful as transports to the Canoness' retinue, yes, but even then they're fire magnets; it's VERY easy to destroy it with its AV11 front armor, and there goes ~70 points of transport (assuming you purchased smoke). If your opponents are unable to destroy the immolator before it can do any damage, then they probably suck. A single autocannon sentinel can do that easily enough, nevermind a heavy weapons squad, predator tank, etc etc.

Personally, I prefer to instead beef up the retinue to eight celestians, a celestian superior with eviscerator, and the Canoness. The main purpose of a transport is to get the unit inside from point A to point B anyway. Especially using Imperial Armour rules, this is FAR better-- the Immolator ends up costing almost twice as much as a Rhino.

A rhino is 50pts straight from the book, a immolator, 65.(extra armor/smoke being the same cost). An immolator can fire even after going flat out 12" SO the immy can do that AND deliver death afterwards. For a 15pt difference. Its really a steal.

I dont know what you have been doing, but I think your just using them wrong if you cant get them to be useful. And dont know who's letting you use imperial armor when you have it already in your codex.....

carmachu: Anyone worth playing with will probably let you use the IA Rhinos for Sisters of Battle. I have yet to meet anyone that thinks that C:WH fifty point rhinos are balanced, and the only person who had a problem with me using the IA Rhinos was some annoying munchkin (in the sense of being a wannabe powergamer) whom I didn't really want to play with anyway on account of his being fifteen and smelly.

Ixe wrote:...WOW

That is a reaction that I've gotten, after defeating fifth edition blood angels with this army.

I never said I use Retributors in most of my lists, by the way... in fact, I only reccomended them against hordes...

Ugh, just toss most of the "advice" you've been given so far.

The 'best' SoB army is going to be a mix of SoB with allied IG.

Cannoness, Book + Celestian retinue, meltas or flamers, Immolator

2x SoB x10, meltas or flamers (I prefer flamers since anti troop will let you make use of their bolters), Rhino

1x IG Platoons:

1x Platoon Command Squad in Chimera, Flamers
2x IG squad in Chimera, Flamer/Autocannon
2-5x IG HWT with Autocannons

There's the baseline for you to work off of. There's huge synergy between IG and Sisters; Sisters have plentiful short range ability, IG have plenty of long range firepower. Sisters are a fast mobile strikeforce, IG are able to create stationary fire support platforms. It's a great combo.

Depending on how many HWTs you run, your baseline will cost you around 900-1000 points.

From there, fill with Celestian SW squads and more of the same, even more IG if you want. I'm still a fan of the Exorcist, and I don't think you can go much wrong with 2-3 of those.

5 IG Heavy Weapon Autocannon Teams, 3 Exorcists, 3 Celestian squads (including Cannoness'), and 3+ Chimeras with 4+ Immolators is a great army.

Eh, I would htink that the heavy weapons teams should probably have lascannons rather than autocannons, if you're really going for a fire support platoon. But then I suppose I face more AV14 than you do.

Melissia wrote:I know they are. But what is a take all comers list even in one specific metroplex (this one has a population just shy of seven million people) isn't as much in another high density location.

Frankly, I dislike combi-meltas as a rule, and if I REALLY need that transport popped RIGHT NOW, I'll use my three exorcists rather than spend fifteen points on a one-shot weapon that has a good chance of doing just about nothing. This has worked quite well for me.

Exorcists aren't what they used to be. 135 points for a random number of AP shots used to be good, but with 5ed you really need more sources of anti tank than 3 back line support vehicles that become worthless with the first weapon destroyed result. Esp since exorcists can't reliably dent AV 14, and how good land raiders have gotten. AV 14 is more common now outside of SM too, as Imp guard have gotten popular, and battlewagon orks are the practically the only viable ork list.

Sure does suck, esp since it is practically the only native way for a sisters army to get long ranged anti tank in a mostly tank 5th rules meta. The other option is to not go pure sisters and use that nice Inq ability to take an allied IG platoon. Want some auto cannons and lascannons? IG delivers! tons of HW support for a bargain price, and a bunch of extra wounds and flashlights to go with them. Put a cheap book sister next to them, and they are even hard to budge. Or you can mech up the platoons, and fire from the safety of an AV 12 vehicle, that has some nice extra shooting go with it.

So that being said, spamming 11 transports that have TL heavy flamers and containg 20+ meltaguns IS a force to be scared of. With proper deployment and good terrain usage it is possible to give most of the list a cover save, including use of the congo line cover saves. Enough of them will reach range. Who needs bolt guns and faith when you fire S8 Ap 1 shots with nearly half of your models, and your transports spew twin linked heavy flamers?

I will agree that 6 or less immolators won't get to do their job often. But going with more than that is target saturation your opponent will have a hard time dealing with.

The list you posted as the ultimate SoB army is pretty much exactly what I ran until 5th ed came around. The list is a very strong 4th ed list, but just doesn't cut it these days.

As for using FW and imperial armor rules, nobody in my area uses them outside of apoc style games. Used in tourneys? nope. In normal casual gaming? nope. On the FLGS gaming nights? nope. The only event in my area that allows FW is some of adepticon's events. I've found that people who bring up imperial armor in a discussion are usually just joking (as the rules are jokes...) or are casual hobby players (yippee i get to play out your scenarios. I prefer my fluff contained in novels and codexes thank you) , or powergamers who don't like the level of power playing by the main rules allows.