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That's funny, I find people who don't allow for Imperial Armour to usually end up being powergamers who really want to limit their opponents options so that they can have an easier game...

Or you could just play your perfectly fine list that just happens to make you pay more for transports like everybody else who had to suffer with their 50 point SM rhinos when BA (WD article), DA, and chaos had their much nicer and cheaper rhinos.

With sisters you get SM stats for the most part (you get all the important ones, BS4 and 3+ armor), faith, and great special weapons options. Also your models cheaper than SMs, so is it that big a deal that you have to pay 15-18 more points per rhino? If you want extra armor, at 5 points you can have it, where SM EA is too costly to be worth it. Its an old book, with old rules, but you have to take the good with the bad.

IA is not a balanced rules set, its not tested fully and is full of experimental rules and units. It is fine for testing out, or playing scenarios, or for apoc, but for regular vanilla 40k, it really isn't appropriate.

OR they just want a no frills match of 40k.

WH are already a decent codex, they do not need IA.

If anything at all, YOU would be the power gamer. Not saying that you are, though asking for a rules set that most people haven't read through well enough.

They're not limiting your options for a easier game of 40k. They're limiting your options for a BETTER game of 40k.

Inquisitor_Syphonious: Same thing to me. And I would actually argue that C:WH DOES need cheaper rhinos, and then a dozen other changes besides (if I didn't, I wouldn't have bothered to write that fandex ). Sisters lists are powerful when used right, but it is hard to argue that they really are as good as any fifth edition codex. Yes, they can win, but I even see Grey Knights winning occasionally.

Melissia wrote:carmachu: Anyone worth playing with will probably let you use the IA Rhinos for Sisters of Battle. I have yet to meet anyone that thinks that C:WH fifty point rhinos are balanced, and the only person who had a problem with me using the IA Rhinos was some annoying munchkin (in the sense of being a wannabe powergamer) whom I didn't really want to play with anyway on account of his being fifteen and smelly.

No they wont. Why would anyone let you buy a vehical at a cheaper cost that you already have in your codex? Repressor? Fine with that. Want to buy a 35pt rhino from there that already is IN your codex ata different cost? No, smacks of munchinkinism.

YOU are the munchkin, not the person saying no. I certainly wouldnt let you do that. It doesnt matter what you think, it matters whats in the book. When we eventually get updated, I'm sure it will change. Until then? No way I'd let you buy something from IA that you already have in our book.


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Melissia wrote:That's funny, I find people who don't allow for Imperial Armour to usually end up being powergamers who really want to limit their opponents options so that they can have an easier game...

I tend to find the complete opposite, that they want something to build up their army that no one has....

The majority of tournaments don't allow IA.

If you play WH in a tournament, don't expect to have 35 point Rhinos, expect to pay the cost listed in your codex.

On that basis alone, you're better off just practicing with the normal 50 pt rhino, even in 'fun' games.

People this is not a proposed rules forum. It is a tactics forum that the OP has somewhat erronously posted asking list advise in.

He has asked for units to play 40k, not IA. These are 2 different games from two different companies. It doesn't matter if these companes have the same corporate head or not, they are two different games.

Maybe we should focus on giving input in a friendly non-argumentative way.


On Topic-

@OP- So far Ixe and SourClams have given the best advice for a comp army, but it would help us knowing what you have available for model and what style of list you really want to play. Which of these would you say your leaning toward in your playstyle and desire to play, Pure Sisters, Sisters/Inq, Sisters allied with other?

Are you also looking for tactics on these builds or is this more of just a list thread?

Melissia wrote:carmachu: Anyone worth playing with will probably let you use the IA Rhinos for Sisters of Battle. I have yet to meet anyone that thinks that C:WH fifty point rhinos are balanced, and the only person who had a problem with me using the IA Rhinos was some annoying munchkin (in the sense of being a wannabe powergamer) whom I didn't really want to play with anyway on account of his being fifteen and smelly.

I'm well past 15 and I'm generally not smelly, and when someone asks whether they can use Imperial Armor to give themselves a special extra boost, I generally say no. I treat my friendly game as tournament practice, if I'm beaten by a tournament illegal list, I don't learn anything from it. It's not illegal at all tournaments mind you, because many tournaments are insane. Many, in fact, will allow you to use FW rules for things not in the codex, but will require you to use the codex for stuff that FW duplicates. This leads to such retardeness as Repressors that are cheaper than Rhinos. But I digress. It, for me, is a matter of pride to win with my codex, I don't plead with my opponents to let me use unofficial rules to make me better.

Ixe wrote:...WOW

That is a reaction that I've gotten, after defeating fifth edition blood angels with this army.

I never said I use Retributors in most of my lists, by the way... in fact, I only reccomended them against hordes...

Ixe said that? No he most certainly didn't. Ixe doesn't use ad hominem attacks. Ixe does not accuse other people of lying on the basis of nothing. Ixe finds this kind of attack to be very very rude and he does not tolerate them. So shame on you, Inquisitor_Syphonious. Someone is right or they're wrong, but you don't have to accuse them of not even playing the army. That's an ad hominem attack, their own personal 40k experience has nothing to do with whether they're right or they're wrong, rightness and wrongness can be shown with logical arguments. Calling a stranger a liar to their face just because you disagree with them, that is just beyond the pale as far as I'm concerned.

No, you didn't say that. It was an error in editing the quot boxes (I hate large quote boxes myself).

double post.

Right, most IG players tend to shy away from Heavy Weapons Squads because both of the members can be killed with a single S6 or stronger hit... three wounds and the entire squad is dead.

Personally, I prefer Armored Sentinels as heavy weapons platforms.

sourclams wrote:Ugh, just toss most of the "advice" you've been given so far.

The 'best' SoB army is going to be a mix of SoB with allied IG.

Cannoness, Book + Celestian retinue, meltas or flamers, Immolator

2x SoB x10, meltas or flamers (I prefer flamers since anti troop will let you make use of their bolters), Rhino

1x IG Platoons:

1x Platoon Command Squad in Chimera, Flamers
2x IG squad in Chimera, Flamer/Autocannon
2-5x IG HWT with Autocannons

There's the baseline for you to work off of. There's huge synergy between IG and Sisters; Sisters have plentiful short range ability, IG have plenty of long range firepower. Sisters are a fast mobile strikeforce, IG are able to create stationary fire support platforms. It's a great combo.

Depending on how many HWTs you run, your baseline will cost you around 900-1000 points.

From there, fill with Celestian SW squads and more of the same, even more IG if you want. I'm still a fan of the Exorcist, and I don't think you can go much wrong with 2-3 of those.

5 IG Heavy Weapon Autocannon Teams, 3 Exorcists, 3 Celestian squads (including Cannoness'), and 3+ Chimeras with 4+ Immolators is a great army.

The WH + IG list is not terrible, but I don't find it to be hands down better than SoB either. It dilutes your SoB presence and makes them a lot less dangerous. If you want to mix, IG + SoB is generally superior. SoB provide excellent firepower and durability compared to IG's standard scoring units, so the best thing you can really do is just band-aid a pair of Battle Sister Squads onto an existing IG list, either giving them chimeras to hijack or loading them into valk/vendettas.

I would advise against both choices for a new army, though, unless you have a large 40k budget. Allies are going to be completely gone in a year or two, so it's a bad long term strategy. If you want to own an IG army AND a SoB army, I suggest you collect each individually, and then mix them together as you please. That way you won't be left with two half armies and zero whole armies when the new SoB books comes out.

Melissia wrote:Eh, I would htink that the heavy weapons teams should probably have lascannons rather than autocannons, if you're really going for a fire support platoon. But then I suppose I face more AV14 than you do.

See, statements like this are why I think that you--even though obviously playing WH as at least one of your main armies--are giving absolutely terrible advice.


The 4 squads of Celestians alone should give you 8 BS4 meltaguns in fast transports for ~600 points. Why do you need to spend 50% more per heavy weapon team to give them lascannons? To get less than one roll on the damage table per every 240 points you fire? If you're facing that much AV14, you should be bringing even more melta, not burning points on fragile lascannons. The reason autocannons are effective is because they're cheap and can blow rhinos all day. Autocannon teams let the rest of your army focus on what it's good at; killing infantry or melta-ing heavy armor. ACs can't touch AV14, but for all practical purposes, neither can BS3 Lascannons at 40 points a pop.

Immolators aren't Fast. Yes, they can fire their TLHF-- and ONLY their TLHF, not their other weapons-- after moving 12", but that doesn't make them fast, it just means they can fire their TLHF after moving 12".

A Moderator wrote:OK guys, I'm getting some alerts popping up from this thread.

Argue by all means but keep it polite.

Thanks...

sourclams wrote:The 4 squads of Celestians alone should give you 8 BS4 meltaguns in fast transports for ~600 points. Why do you need to spend 50% more per heavy weapon team to give them lascannons? To get less than one roll on the damage table per every 240 points you fire? If you're facing that much AV14, you should be bringing even more melta, not burning points on fragile lascannons. The reason autocannons are effective is because they're cheap and can blow rhinos all day. Autocannon teams let the rest of your army focus on what it's good at; killing infantry or melta-ing heavy armor. ACs can't touch AV14, but for all practical purposes, neither can BS3 Lascannons at 40 points a pop.

I absolutely agree here. IG have two valid ways of running lascannons: twin-linked on Vendettas, and twin-linked with "Bring it Down!" A 30 man stubborn squad with 3 lascannons and "Bring it Down!" is a nasty tank/monster hunter, and it puts out ridiculous number of shots at 12", and it's really hard to get rid of (unless you've got flamers). In a SoB list though you can't really afford such big squads, and you can't take a Company Command Squad and thus you cannot "bring it down." What you get with IG lascannons in a SoB is an expensive whiff festival. Autocannons hit more reliably because they have two shots, and more importantly, you don't pay through the nose for those two shots.

Hrm. I wasn't aware that Vendettas could use Orders?

Mind you, I never use them, so I'm not entirely up on their rules

No, they come TL on Vendettas.

I was responding to Ixe sayin Vendetta lascannons were, and I quote, 'twin-linked with "Bring it Down!" '... hrm.

nvm late post

focusedfire wrote:Are you also looking for tactics on these builds or is this more of just a list thread?

I was originally looking for tactics on these lists and any suggestions for the lists that I originally posted.
I'm kinda new to 5th so I most certainly was not sure how to handle sisters in this addition.
Now that I've been told my original lists were rubbish, I should clarify what I was hoping to seek:

What is a good tactic/list for sisters in 5th edition tournament play?


Sorry for all of the confusion, I probably shouldn't have posted this in the Tactics forum afterall....

I still hold that lots of Battle Sisters in Rhinos with Exorcists as heavy support is a very competitive list. It's a lot of scoring units, and last minute objective grabs have won me tons of games. It also has fewer kill points than 11 immolators plus the various celestians and dominions...

If you're worred about a lot of mech or a ton of tanks, I'd recommend trying out 2x Meltagun and combiflamer. It's cheaper than Meltagun/Heavy Flamer/Combimelta, and while you do give up some anti-infantry firepower for it, you can make up for it in bodies by saving points. You'll miss the heavy flamer, though, but if your enemies don't have a large number of durable infantry to begin with (IE, mech guard), it might be the best choice for you.

Melissia wrote:I still hold that lots of Battle Sisters in Rhinos with Exorcists as heavy support is a very competitive list....

This is kind of the way that I wanted to go.

I'd rather use a pure sisters army than mix it with IG.
I've thought that the basic Battle Sister squad is incredibly versatile especially if I give them meltas with a combi-flamer like you suggested.

If I get 6 Battle Sister squads running around in Rhinos with 2 Meltas each, they're bound to give any mobile tank support that the Exorcist can't get to.

Six Battle Sister Squads in the build you mentioned would be roughly... 1270 points, assuming a BoSL on ever veteran and Smoke on every rhino. So for a 2000 point game, that leaves ~700 points to spend on other units. Add in three Exorcists (ge the FW exorcists, they're cheaper by a long shot), and you have ~300 points to spend building your Canoness and either Celestians or Seraphim.

I tend to prefer celestians myself (gives the Canoness ablative wounds, so you don't have to spend as much on protective gear), but YMMV.

Melissia wrote:I was responding to Ixe sayin Vendetta lascannons were, and I quote, 'twin-linked with "Bring it Down!" '... hrm.

No there was a comma in there. There are two ways to run lascannons for IG. #1: Vendettas. #2: on foot soldiers using "Bring it Down!" That's what I was saying. Otherwise, their lascannons are too expensive and too innacurate to be worthwhile. I guess there's a way #3, on a Leman Russ commaned by Pask, but he makes expensive tanks more spensive so he's not all that great, and that's a max of one lascannon per army anyway.

Ah, sorry about the misunderstanding then. Thanks for clearing it up.

Stoic Kiwi wrote:

Melissia wrote:I still hold that lots of Battle Sisters in Rhinos with Exorcists as heavy support is a very competitive list....

This is kind of the way that I wanted to go.

I'd rather use a pure sisters army than mix it with IG.
I've thought that the basic Battle Sister squad is incredibly versatile especially if I give them meltas with a combi-flamer like you suggested.

If I get 6 Battle Sister squads running around in Rhinos with 2 Meltas each, they're bound to give any mobile tank support that the Exorcist can't get to.

That army's gonna get spanked without Seraphim support. Battle Sisters need Seraphim to run interference. If you disembark and fire at a hard unit, and it doesn't die, you need to have Seraphim waiting to charge it with SoTM. Even one lonely SM sergeant with a powerfist can wreck a SoB squad. You need to keep your girls out of assault or you lose, and many armies just have so much assault, or such durable units, that you can't shoot down every single thing that can assault you on the turn you disembark. Seraphim provide the missing piece in a mech SoB list, they provide the tarpit that sticks down enemy assaults (and enemy rapid fire, too) and protects your girls, allowing them to get out of their tanks and dump bolter fire all over their targets.

You may just want to read my tactical guide, it says all this stuff, and it's more comprehensive, it tries to cover all the bases.

One can very much afford to have Seraphim in such an army. As I said, six of those battle sister squads, built like that, would be ~1270 points. Even with three exorcists, that's still ~320 points to spend on a Canoness and Seraphim.

With five Battle Sister Squads instead of six, you can probably have two Seraphim squads supporting your mechanized advance, giving you a lot of tactical options (Seraphim have probably the best Hit and Run rule in the game, and it opens up a lot of cool tactics).

Melissia wrote:That's funny, I find people who don't allow for Imperial Armour to usually end up being powergamers who really want to limit their opponents options so that they can have an easier game...

Funny I tend to find them to be the people who want to play a game of 40K, not fantasy, not bloodbowl, not apocalypse, not cities of death, a game of 40K. That's what them people tend to be.

The thread already answers most questions, but in short if you don't want to read Ixe's sig.

Sisters, Cannoness & Celestians in Rhinos = Good
Cannoness & Celestians in Immolator = Not quite as good
Seraphim = Important stalling unit
Dominions, HB Retributors = Marginal
All else = bad

Inducted IG = Supposedly good