Top tier tourney armies

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**radiohazard**

What are the top tier armies for 40K???

Guard, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Orks, Eldar in that order???

**Xyptc**

Tyranids seem to have done surprisingly well this time around, much to everyone's (genuine) surprise.

**Krak_kirby**

Necrons, Tau, Dark Angels, in that order.

**StarGate**

Well Dark eldar are alway in the top five of the teir for being a out of date army, followed by MEQ and then Eldar.

**rednekgunner**

Krak_kirby wrote:Necrons, Tau, Dark Angels, in that order.

I hope you are joking?

IG, BA, SW, SM, Orks, Daemons.....

**Gwar!**

It's obviously:

God Teir:
IG

Great Teir:
DE

Good Teir:
Everyone Else

Crap Teir:
Necrons

**Dashofpepper**

I play Dark Eldar and Orks; they're both top tier. In magnitude of power, I might put IG above either of them, but certainly not Space Wolves or Blood Angels.

**paperclipracer**

Well my buddy got 2nd in the first round of ard boyz with necrons

**Luthon1234**

So what console is Super warhammer 40k turbo coming to?

**Luke_Prowler**

Are Dark Eldar really that good?

I mean I know they can spam lance weapons like no tomorrow and Raiders are very maneuverable but I heard that most of the codex was junk.

**DukeRustfield**

I love the fact that there are so many different answers.

I think the newer Codices have a lot of power because they have a lot of options. The SM army has 14 HQ choices for poo's sake. The more choices per category, the more options, obviously. Though Eldar have a ton of choices too. A side effect to this I think is that competitive players want choices. So they gravitate towards armies with a wide range of strategies they can manipulate. You can go crazy trying to figure out all the stuff IG can do.

**ChrisCP**

Luke_Prowler wrote:Are Dark Eldar really that good? I mean I know they can spam lance weapons like no tomorrow and Raiders are very maneuverable but I heard that most of the codex was junk.

The core of DE are Warriors(Ie DL with legs) and Wyches (Tarpit).
Either have the option of being taken as elites, either can take a Raider - 55 point DL. Their Ravagers are only 105 points, 120 for 3 36" Str7, Ap2, blasts...

That's like all there is to it

(not really but...)

**radiohazard**

Some varied answers there... Thank you.

I'm asking because my wife asked me what I wanted for my birthday. I haven't got a clue, so she suggested a new 40k army. I thought I might as well get something that was pretty good as opposed to something pretty bad.

I would get a new Warmachine/Hordes army, but with no where to play ATM it might just sit there gathering dust.

**Honersstodnt**

marines, unless your playing the vulkan melta/flamer spam variants, are not a top tier tournament list. They are a mid tier army, with a good general, that can compete with higher level armies, but at a disadvantage.

I'd say, as far as power of codex...

imperial guard
Space Wolves
dark eldar
Nids
Orks
Blood angels
Codex Marines
eldar
Tau
witchhunters
Daemonhunters
squats (they aren't even legal to play, but they are still better than the lowest ranked army)

necrons

**sebster**

It doesn't make any sense to consider powerful tournament builds in terms of whole codices. If someone saw that IG were a dominant army and starting building an army of footsloggers tomorrow he'd get suddenly be very surprised when those footsloggers weren't very effective.

Every codex has more powerful builds and less powerful builds, the point to top tier tournament lists is that they're tightly focussed, built around one or two unit types that are very powerful. With orks, for instance, you can run nob biker mobz, you can run footsloggers, you can run a mass of battlewagons, you can run a horde deffdreds and kanz, you can run a kult of speed. Not all of these build types are top tier, despite orks being generally considered a powerful build.

**Kilkrazy**

I'm surprised Nids would be considered so high.

The vibe from Nid players with the new codex is either it is weak or that it is reasonably strong but harder to play.

Personally I believe any given army can beat any other, with a bit of luck, and if the owner makes sure to use tactics.

**Tantras**

I'm quite surprised nobody has mention LoS spam yet. Pretty strong if you ask me.

**incarna**

For the first time that I can recall 40k is approaching a state of balance. In my opinion there are really three camps;

Armies that are well balanced within the context of 40k tournament play:
Orks, Imperial Guard, Space Marines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Tyranids

Armies that can compete in tournament play but suffer from a dated codex which almost forces them to build a certain type of list:
Chaos Space Marines, Eldar

Armies that are now out of context within 40k and struggle to compete:
Necrons, Tau, Dark Eldar, Dark Angels, Witchhunters, Daemonhunters

When an army from the first camp matches up against another army from the first camp, it comes down to the most skilled player. When an army from the first camp matches up against an army from the second camp, it’s still about skill but only so long as the second camp’s list has been built in one of the few ways that remain competitive. When an army from the first camp matches against an army from the third camp, it tends to be a mismatch.

**Ixquic**

Kilkrazy wrote:I'm surprised Nids would be considered so high.

The vibe from Nid players with the new codex is either it is weak or that it is reasonably strong but harder to play.

Personally I believe any given army can beat any other, with a bit of luck, and if the owner makes sure to use tactics.

To be fair the feeling I get from a lot of internet Tyranid players both this edition and last was that if they aren't effortlessly wiping the opponent off the board with some weirdo themed list the book is garbage. Everyone I've seen in real life doesn't have any real problems with the new book once they adapted a bit and it's really popular.

**radiohazard**

@ Incarna...

Dark Eldar don't struggle at tournaments. They have consistant high places on the final days.

Also, the fact they are a very powerful army is quite possibly one of the reasons why we have waited over a decade for a new codex.

BTW Tantras... what is LoS spam???

**Kilkrazy**

Ixquic wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:I'm surprised Nids would be considered so high.

The vibe from Nid players with the new codex is either it is weak or that it is reasonably strong but harder to play.

Personally I believe any given army can beat any other, with a bit of luck, and if the owner makes sure to use tactics.

To be fair the feeling I get from a lot of internet Tyranid players both this edition and last was that if they aren't effortlessly wiping the opponent off the board with some weirdo themed list the book is garbage. Everyone I've seen in real life doesn't have any real problems with the new book once they adapted a bit and it's really popular.

I agree but my point is that the real top tier codexes have some fairly obvious units to spam/power builds/call them what you will -- Nids doesn't.

I don't see that as a problem in the Nid dex, it's an issue with the top tier codexes.

**Melissia**

Kilkrazy: I feel the entire IG codex is that way. I want to take it all!

... except for the elites choices. Which suck so hard.

**Kilkrazy**

That's why IG is probably the best code at the moment.

**Tantras**

radiohazard wrote:BTW Tantras... what is LoS spam???

Hahah, I hate that the Dakka roll-over for LoS is Line of Sight, I keep forgetting. It'd be pretty easy to spam a line of sight list

Of course, I mean Fzorgle - AKA - Lash of Submission.

**radiohazard**

Tantras wrote:
radiohazard wrote:BTW Tantras... what is LoS spam???

Hahah, I hate that the Dakka roll-over for LoS is Line of Sight, I keep forgetting. It'd be pretty easy to spam a line of sight list

Of course, I mean Fzorgle - AKA - Lash of Submission.

Ahhhh kk.

TY.

**incarna**

radiohazard wrote:@ Incarna...

Dark Eldar don't struggle at tournaments. They have consistant high places on the final days.

Also, the fact they are a very powerful army is quite possibly one of the reasons why we have waited over a decade for a new codex.

BTW Tantras... what is LoS spam???

In my experience at about a couple dozen tournaments since the release of 5th ed (including Adepticon and ‘Ard Boyz) I have yet to see a Dark Eldar army place. I suspect both our experiences are based on anecdotal evidence so we may have to simply agree to disagree on this one.

I think LOS spam was meant to be Lash of Submission but I can't say for sure - I don't consider 2 Lashes as "spam"

**Nitros14**

incarna wrote:
I think LOS spam was meant to be Lash of Submission but I can't say for sure - I don't consider 2 Lashes as "spam"

How many lashes do you consider spam?

You have two HQ choices.

The only units which can take Lash of Submission are HQ choices.

You can have a maximum of two Lashes in one army.

Anyway that goes back to the Chaos Psychic Powers section being such an afterthought. Which is a topic for another thread.

**Tantras**

It's also not just about the number of them, too, but also there utilisation. I've seen some people use Fzorgle just to get their DP into CC as early as possible. In a Fzorgle spam tournament list, I believe it's more geared around both HQs using Lash every single turn and causing havoc with the enemy lines.

That, and landing Vindicator shells on their heads.

**incarna**

Nitros14 wrote:How many lashes do you consider spam?

I’d say 3 is the minimum requirement to qualify as spam.

Have you ever heard the term “Farseer spam” or “Librarian Spam?” or “Res Orb Spam”?

**Dashofpepper**

OP:

IF we're talking about a birthday gift, then I would encourage you to get something new and relevant that will last a long time:

1. Marines: The attraction of getting some marines is that you can make a DIY chapter and paint them however you want, and play whatever chapter you want at any give time. If I ever decide to pick up a marine army this is what I'm going to do - the marines are all going to get painted however I want, not in keeping with any chapter aesthetics so that I can be Space Wolves one day, Blood Angels the next with the substitution of a character or two and some tanks. This literally gives you the ability to gain 6-7 armies at once. Chaos marines, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Ultramarines, Dark Angels, White Scars (maybe not so much White Scars) but you gain so much.

2. Imperial Guard: Regardless of how you spin it, mechanized IG is a top tier army. They won 'Ard Boyz last year, and a mechanized IG army is usually never far from the top of a standing list.

3. Orks: Orks are incredibly fun to play, incredibly powerful in their ability to be themed into literally different armies (like marines) within the same codex; there are so many different and viable builds to make from the same codex, and many of them are absolutely brutal. I travel around the country to GTs and stuff with my Orks and while there are a couple armies (Mech IG, Space Wolves) that I respect, the only army I actually fear is Dark Eldar.

While Dark Eldar are incredibly potent (see my signature), they are also supposedly next in line for a new codex and models, making any purchase you get now quickly obsolete. The current models are poorly designed, antiquated, look terrible, and to make a sweeping generalization....the only people who still play Dark Eldar are the hardcore DE fans.

I hope that helps