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Hey guys,

Though it might be time for me to contribute to this tactics section, and a guide to my views on the grimnarwing is what I'll start with.

This is refering to an all terminator Space Wolf army.

First, why start a Grimnarwing?
Well, there are a few reasons-
1. It's pretty cheap to build, considering that it's all terminators. Several sites have armies like this for sale.

2. Its a lot of fun to play- though it can be a challenge. I've played some games with grimnarwings, and if you play it right, it works very well.

3. All terminators all the time- a pretty sweet deal, with their relentless, awesome weapons and 2+ save. Only problem? we have to take droppods or land raiders, not deepstriking termies. This can be a good thing though, because droppods can contest that much needed objective, held by those pesky grots...

So if you want to start a grimnarwing, Read on!


Okay, so the essential part of any GWing list is grimnar himself- he eats up 275 points, but he's worth every one. If you want a look at what he can do, take a look at Anpu's Space Wolf Synergy: I can't really explain it better than him. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/266924.page

So with 275 points out of the way, what next? Terminator troops, of course! Here's how I kit out my grunt squads:

5 Space Wof Terminators in a Droppod
- 1 W/combi melta and lightning claw
- 1 W/ combi melta and power sword
- 1 W/ Combi plasma and power sword
- 1 W/ Combi flamer and Wolf claw
- 1 W/ Chainfist, Cyclone Missile launcher (or if you don't want all your points on one guy, switch the chainfist to the other combi melta guy)
Total: 275.

At 1500 points, you can take 3 of these units, and one with a heavy flamer instead of a cyclone missile launcher. In addition, you can take 3 guys in a droppod with Logan Grimnar, for 134 points.

So that gives us 5 scoring units, a total of 11 kill points, and 24 men. I've seen worse at 1500 points! Also, it leaves you with 16 points extra. I bought a deathwing launcher for one droppod. Or you can take 2 PFs/ Frost weapons, 4 combi weapons, 4 wolf claws, or anything else you care at 20 points or under. notice these all leave you 4 points over, acceptable in my area.

A sample list might look like this:

HQ:

Logan Grimnar- 275

Troops:

5 WG terminators, 2 combi meltas, 2 combi plasma, heavy flamer, 2 wolf claws (one on two guys), chainfist, droppod, deathwind launcher- 270

5 WG terminators, 2 combi meltas, 2 combi plasma, cyclone missile launcher, 2 wolf claws (one on two guys), chainfist, droppod- 275

5 WG terminators, 2 combi meltas, 2 combi plasma, cyclone missile launcher, 2 wolf claws (one on two guys), chainfist, droppod- 275

5 WG terminators, 2 combi meltas, 2 combi plasma, cyclone missile launcher, 2 wolf claws (one on two guys), chainfist, droppod- 275

3 WG termies, Droppod, - 134

Total: 1504

My word on Cyclone missile launchers: Take 'em! you can get stranded easilly in a termie army, and this can ensure that you are still a nuisnace. In the above list, this adds up to 8 rocket shots a turn!


A big issue here and in any terminator list is deployment. Dawn of war give you some neat oprions here, but in a regular match (p.s. thanks for the advice on this bit, Matyr! Trying it out, it really works!):

Full out droppod- can be risky because your army comes in piecemeal. Former Daemon players may like the feel of this, though.

Deploy regularly, and have your droppods come in alone. I like this agianst mostly footslogging armies- against hordes, make a funnel, or drop one objectives, against shooty, make a screen.

Deploy with a mix of both- This can give you some nice results, it's also the safest way to go.

Hope this helps, and if you wnat to go up to 2000- pick your own path!

Best of luck, and good hunting.

I'd suggest not calling them something so Dark Angels-centric. Why not "Grimnar's Great Company" or something?

Nurglitch wrote:I'd suggest not calling them something so Dark Angels-centric. Why not "Grimnar's Great Company" or something?

Except that it's been xxxxx-wing for how long now for any terminator centric' army? Hell, even the orks have Da Deffwing with all Mega Armored Nobz. Hell, and back when Deathwing was the only game in town, people were painting their termies as 1st company of any loyal space marine chapter. (Ultrawing, for example.) Then came cult terminators with Demon troops, and so on and so forth.

So...

Deathwing
Chaoswing (Bloodwing, Lustwing, Plaguewing, Changewing)
Lysanderwing (Lead by Lysander of course)
Da Deffwing (Orks)
and finally Loganwing with Space Wolves.

So, just let it ride man.

And by "let it ride" you mean write two paragraphs of response to a single sentence post? I think I'll follow your example then.

Deathwing
Justaerin
Imperial Fists First Company
Meganob Mob
Grimnar's Great Company.

On the topic of Grimnar's Great Company, the army list the army list Asgeirr Darkwolf has posted has some pretty serious flaws, mainly that it's not focused, but also that it's not well suited to the alternate deployments described, and that 4 points of the limit is basically the cost of a Combi-Weapon. Not everyone is going to give you a free Combi-Weapon, particularly if it's your army's main tank-busting punch.

But back to the deployment problems. When an entire army uses Drop Pods, you have to consider which wave is going to hit the table on the first turn. This wave has to do two things: (1) Kill vehicles, (2) Survive. This is problematic for Grimnar's Great Company because they cannot combat-squad, so they can't load the first wave of Drop Pods with twice as many units, and they can't be dedicated to anti-vehicle firepower.

Presumably Asgeirr Darkwolf is trying to increase the survivability of the first wave troops by diversifying the types of model in the unit so he can load AP2 shots onto individuals rather than having them spread throughout the unit, but it's better to kill units with AP2 first by having a reliable Melta-strike.

Secondly the Drop Pods in the first wave, aside from the single one with the Deathwind Launcher are basically free kill-points or chaff. This makes them cheap, but also useless, particularly if the Wolves are going to be facing a horde or multiple small units.

Finally, this list really drops the ball when it comes to psychic defense. Psychic defense is a strength of the Space Wolves and leaving home without it is fighting with one hand tied behind your back.

How to avoid Drop Pod Deployment issues...Deploy everything on the table and let the pods come in empty.

Psychic Defense is a huge issue without a doubt...however, it is not always necessary as you tune your lists to your own local flavor...I have only run into 2 armies in my local gaming group that use Psykers...Tyranids and Space Marines...Their Psychic Powers aren't the biggest worry to me; however, that's just me. Anyone who hits up against Eldar on a regular basis should take 2 Rune Priests, compulsory to try and negate the fairies (then again, at the same time, doesn't really help if they stay 30" away so why bother?). Play to the local game...not the net game.

Next is the diversity of Darkwolf's list...it is a good thing in that he is bringing enough firepower. Sure, he has Melta for busting tanks if he so chooses to Melta Something to death; but again, this weapon load out can change for almost anyone and how they want to play it. I personally, would have another Combi-Flamer in place of the Combi Melta as I almost never would be dealing with that many Land Raiders at 1500 points.

Most of what he has pointed out is solid thought process...the big hindrances that have faced Terminator Armies can just be overcome by diversity and tactical deployment...why drop in everything and give your opponent a tasty treat. Make him work for everything he gets. Sure, you'll have 5 free kill points in the form of Drop Pods, but if he never gets another one from the rest of the Army...what then?

Thanks for the critique, guys. You know, I really don't mind what you call it- 'wing' was started by DA, and has become a genral name for any termie list. I have to agree about the numerous melta combi weapons, but my luck against vehicles is abysmall, and I find they can handle most tough guys, too- insta killing marines can be nice.

Also, this is just a list that has worked for me, in my area- mostly mech and IG, some daemons and eldar. But the psychic power issue... At 2000 points you can take Njal and Arjac, if your tastes run that way. Personally, I'd choose one or the other, usually Njal.

And in genral, wiht all lists... YMMV.

Would Njal be a good addition to bring it up to 1750, or are more troops a better addition for that points level?

This 'wing is very appealing to me, so I'm watching this thread with interest. Thanks for posting it, Asgeirr!

Glad you like it Savnock. On Njal:

First, he nulls psychic powers on a 3+- very handy.

Second, many of his abilities can increase the survivability of your termies. I really like that in an army with so few troops.

Third, he brings so much esle ot the list- since termies are so slow, it takes a while to get to the enemie- slowing them down with some of those psychic powers might help.

Lastly, his lord of tempests is pretty nice. Check him out, he brings a plehtora of powers.

On the more troops note- maybe, if you're having troubles of the dying kind.

This is my normal Logan-Wing
Space Wolf 13 Model 1500 Point List

Here is a list I came up with for a 1500 point game. Like some others I just want to see what a low model count Space Wolf Army would do. For another 500 points I can add 2 Land Raiders.

Bjorn the Fell-Handed [Assault Cannon]
Logan Grimnar, The Great Wolf
Logan’s Wolf Guard
-Arjac Rockfist, The Anvil of Fenris
-Wolf Guard [Terminator Armor, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield]
-Wolf Guard [Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter, Frost Axe, Melta-Bombs]
-Wolf Guard [Terminator Armor, Frost Axe Storm Shield, Melta Bombs]
-Wolf Guard [Terminator Armor, Assault Cannon, Chain Fist]

Njal Stormcaller, Lord of Tempests [Runic Terminator Amour]
-Wolf Guard x4 [Paired Wolf Claws]
-Wolf Guard [Heavy Flamer, Chain Fist]

Roster Statistics
Model Count: 13
% Elite: 0.0
% Fast: 0.0
% Heavy: 0.0
% HQ: 54.3
% Troops: 45.7

The problem with Grimnarwing is that SW Terminators aren't very efficient. With a bare-bones loadout, you get a Chaos Terminator for more points. With a decked out assault loadout you get a TH/SS Terminator for more points. You can massage a grab-bag of wargear options into versatile squads but, again, there's a point premium paid to do so.

I would suggest a variant build that gives a lot more survivability with generally more focus for the list:

Grimnar's Gun Line

Grimnar
Terminator Rune Priest

3x Lone Wolf, Terminator Armor, SH/Chainfist

6x 5x Wolf Guard, 1 Terminator w/Cyclone Missile Launcher

2x Long Fang x6, 5x MLs
Long Fang x6, 5x Lascannons

That should be in the 2000 ballpark, you can simply drop troop WG squads to bring you down to lower point totals. It's still 11 Terminator models, but they get a lot of ablative wounds within close combat-capable squads (4 attacks per model) and 27 heavy weapon shots is nothing that can be easily shrugged off.

sourclams wrote:The problem with Grimnarwing is that SW Terminators aren't very efficient. With a bare-bones loadout, you get a Chaos Terminator for more points. With a decked out assault loadout you get a TH/SS Terminator for more points. You can massage a grab-bag of wargear options into versatile squads but, again, there's a point premium paid to do so.

I would suggest a variant build that gives a lot more survivability with generally more focus for the list:

Grimnar's Gun Line

Grimnar
Terminator Rune Priest

3x Lone Wolf, Terminator Armor, SH/Chainfist

6x 5x Wolf Guard, 1 Terminator w/Cyclone Missile Launcher

2x Long Fang x6, 5x MLs
Long Fang x6, 5x Lascannons

That should be in the 2000 ballpark, you can simply drop troop WG squads to bring you down to lower point totals. It's still 11 Terminator models, but they get a lot of ablative wounds within close combat-capable squads (4 attacks per model) and 27 heavy weapon shots is nothing that can be easily shrugged off.

This list is similar to the wolf wing I am working on. I only worked it out for 1500 points, but it is the same excluding the lone wolves and the pack of lascannon fangs. I worked out 3 packs of guard in armor, and I couldn't resist giving them some of the goods and dropping them in pods. Do you intend for all 6 packs of wolf guard to walk across the board? It's a lot of terminators, but this still makes me nervous. Also, 5 Lascannons seems excessive to me. Wouldn't it be easier to get some meltas out there somewhere. The combi melta is cheap for the WG or you can put it on a mobile platform like a landspeeder. I am also playing with the idea of buying razorbacks with twin linked lascannons so that my 2 fang packs have an exit strategy and will have the option to redeploy should the situation demand their fire power elsewhere.

A couple things:

Not every Wolf Guard is in Terminator armor. They're more for ablative wounds to 'protect' the Cyclone Missile Launcher model. Since the Termie upgrade is almost 2x as many points, PA WG are about as survivable versus small arms fire (since there's 2x as many bodies) but less vulnerable to AP2/1 (since there's 2x as many bodies).

The lascannons, with Grimnar and Tank Hunter, can serve the role of melta in most situations. They're still not ideal versus Land Raiders, but 5 S10 Las shots can wreck 2 transports a turn or stop 2 Predators from firing. You should probably have combimeltas scattered through the WG squads to deal with the occasional DS walker or AV14, but when you see the lascannons perform the extra points spent do justify themselves.

On Razorbacks, they're good if you want a bit of insurance against Dawn of War scenarios; Razors can guarantee that your LF packs find some terrain on T1 and have a much wider movement radius. But in all-foot lists, Razorbacks don't live beyond that. Your opponent will have exactly two vehicle targets to shoot at with all their ranged AT; I've tried using lasbacks in foot lists and they just never give good return. Much better to simply take another squad of WG with CML Termie.

As a DA player, the -Wing- name on any other force other than a Darkangel 1st or 2nd company is simply a cop out by lazy player(s) to name their force accordingly within their army.

AtraAngelis wrote:As a DA player, the -Wing- name on any other force other than a Darkangel 1st or 2nd company is simply a cop out by lazy player(s) to name their force accordingly within their army.

For everything but Deffwing, I agree with you. Orks loot everything though, so it is totally reasonable that they would steal the name of the army they were trying to emulate. The Armored Krumpany is another good example of this.

Again with the names! Yes, we are being lazy, and the term has just simply stuck. Plus, you can always just call it whatever you want, such as "Grimnar's Guard", "Death from Fenris", "Grimnar's Great Company", "The Great Grey", or even "The depressed snuffalufagises" if your tastes run that way. Point is, it doesn't matter what you call them.

as for taking some non termie wolfguard- a squad or tow could work, maybe with power weapons to run along with logan, but having too much mixing can be bad- most things, grey hunters can do better.

BTW, that was a sample list which I run, and it has worked well for me. You cna do a lot more with this list at higher points.

Also, feel free to keep posting you lists! it's always fun to see what others come up with.

I have tons of Dark Angels left over from way back when in the day (in other words, when Dark Angels weren't the bastard Space Marines), I run the following list as a count as for Deathwing:

H.Q.

Logan -275

Troops

Wolf Guard 5x
5x Terminator Armor, 2x Wolf Claw Pairs, 2 Standard, Heavy Flamer -210

Wolf Guard 5x
4x Terminator Armor, Arjac, 3x Power Fist, 1 Standard, 1 Assault Cannon -380

Wolf Guard 5x
5x Terminator Armor, 3x Wolf Claw Pairs, 2x Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield -270

Heavy Support

Land Raider Crusader
Extra Armor, Multi Melta -275

Land Raider
Extra Armor -265

Land Raider
Extra Armor -265

Total: 2000 points

At the end of the day, this list is nothing competitive at all; however, it is an absurd amount of fun. "Which Land Raider are you going to shoot?" is a fun game I like to play with my opponent as I leap frog them from time to time and mix up which unit goes where to see how frustrating it can be. Melta spam doesn't bother me much as I usually avoid the 6" that is required oh so often in my gaming group. Would I take 3 Land Raiders and 16 Terminators to a Tournament? Probably, but just for gaks and giggles. I don't intend on this being the end all be all or the most amazing, but it is a blast to play. Arjac has always been my favorite as he is one badass mofo. He can go toe to toe with the best of them and usually comes out without a scratch (this is thanks to allocating wounds on his compadres in the squad). In all honesty, wolf wing, logan wing, death wing...at the end of the day it is semantics. Dark Angel players can keep their pride and hope that one day they will be restored back to their fearsome glory...sometime in 2012...

Not bad, the list looks fun to play. Ladn raiders are awesome, but costly!

That list in particular is stupid fun and well...either works out amazingly or I lose horrifically. That's the problem with super elite armies. Their extra nasty in their specialty, but they have to get there first and well...Land Raiders in my opinion are the safest and most flexible way. Sure 12 Melta Vets could make short work of them but they have to get in range first...and that's why 4 twin-linked Lascannons are going to be blazing away all day at Imperial Guard to soften up those silly vets for the Terminators to maul.

The one army that always sends shivers down my spine is Dark Eldar when facing this...then again, the last Dark Eldar player I faced complained about the 5 Assault Cannons I had in my list...who would have thought?

Mine is the same way.
My main advantage is Bjorn, he is vutualy unkillable most of the time.

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:
as for taking some non termie wolfguard- a squad or tow could work, maybe with power weapons to run along with logan, but having too much mixing can be bad- most things, grey hunters can do better.

Grey Hunters can't have Cyclone Missile Launchers. The reason to take the power armored wolf guard is to have 6 cheap squads with CML's. This army is a shooting army and puts out a scary amount of missile launcher firepower when mixed with Long Fangs.

Aye, maybe we misunderstood each other. Oh well, not that it matters much.

Anyway, I enjoy the Gwing because it is a change of pace from most other armies out there.

Oh, and Unholy- I like your style. Win big or lose big, that's the ticket!

Hey Anpu42 how does your Grimmnar Great company army fair? I have thought about doing this myself mainly due to the fact that I have little time to play let alone time to model and paint a large army.

How about anyone else how is playing this type of army?

I'd be shooting for a 1500pt army, what about podding rather than foot slogging?

Thanks,
Chappy P!

I have won with it so far, but that is mostly becouse of 4 Characters, expesialy Logan, Bjron and Thor, sorry Arjac

Anpu42 wrote:I have won with it so far, but that is mostly becouse of 4 Characters, expesialy Logan, Bjron and Thor, sorry Arjac

You play Bjorn, Logan, Thor and 2 others?

That's 750pts of characters at the very least.

Anpu42 wrote:I have won with it so far, but that is mostly becouse of 4 Characters, expesialy Logan, Bjron and Thor, sorry Arjac

This shocked me too.

Our nick name for Arjac is Thor.

If you want a podding version of Anpu's list, just drop some goodies and/ or some guys. Speaking of the list, I really like it. After all, space wolves have some of the best heros in the game- why not take a bunch? that said, you could drop Bjorn for another unit.

Here is my tournament winning loganwing list (2500)

2500
HQ
Logan Grimnar
Njal Stormcaller Runic Tactical Dreadnought Armor

Troops
Wolf Guard unit A
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Assault Cannon Powerfist
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Thunderhammer Stormshield
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Storm Bolter Wolf Claw
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Storm Bolter Power Weapon Meltabombs
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Storm Bolter Powerfist

Wolf Guard unit B
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Assault Cannon Powerfist
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Storm Bolter Chainfist
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Twin Wolf Claws
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Storm Bolter Power Weapon Meltabombs
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Storm Bolter Powerfist

Wolf Guard unit C
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Assault Cannon Powerfist
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Storm Bolter Chainfist
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Twin Wolf Claws
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Storm Bolter Power Weapon Meltabombs
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Storm Bolter Powerfist

Wolf Guard unit D
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Assault Cannon Chainfist
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Twin Wolf Claws
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Storm Bolter Power Weapon Meltabombs
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Storm Bolter Powerfist
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Storm Bolter Powerfist

Wolf Guard unit E
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Assault Cannon Chainfist
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Twin Wolf Claws
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Storm Bolter Power Weapon Meltabombs
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Storm Bolter Powerfist
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Storm Bolter Powerfist

Wolf Guard unit F
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Assault Cannon Chainfist
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Storm Bolter Wolf Claw
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Storm Bolter Power Weapon Meltabombs
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Storm Bolter Powerfist
Tactical Dreadnought Armor Storm Bolter Powerfist

Heavy Support
Long Fang Unit A
5 Missile Launchers

Long Fang Unit B
2 Missile Launchers 3 Heavy Bolters

Long Fang Unit C
4 Lascannons


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Benefits: no wasted points on drop pods. Lots of dakka. 6 tough scoring units, good psychic defense, good firebase. Tested game winner. No vehicles makes dedicated anti-tank weapons less effective. No masses of infantry makes anti-horde weapons less effective.

Drawbacks: Long Fangs eat fire and die quick. Must commit forces early, footslogging terminators can get anywhere on the field as long as they are moving that direction all game. Leadership can be a problem if logan or njal are not nearby. Huge weakness to plasma, (luckily the most common plasma platforms can be silenced quickly by long fangs)

I like the list very much! The lack of drop pods (wasted points?...) worries me a bit, as the termies are slow, but a good firebase none the less. I still like cyclones over assault cannons (you will have 19 missile shots per turn!). Anyway, aweosme list.

Anpu42 wrote:Our nick name for Arjac is Thor.

You are playing with over 800pts of hq's in a 2k list?

You are probably playing some very poor players or are getting EXTREMELY lucky in your wins.