Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I like kroot, they have the ability to infiltrate and now have a 3+ cover save in woods and 3 attacks on the charge for just 7 points, however theyre ment to be used against armies like orks and space marines to even the odds in close combat but if they face space marines they just get shot to bits before they get there and its not very likely theyre going to wipe out the squad. i would use them in a devilfish but 12man squad of kroot seems too little if you want to kill a unit un cc. If you have any tactics on using kroot, i would be happy to hear them as i really want to include them in my army

I've heard the most popular use for them is mobile cover for your 'real' models. A cushy bubble wrap to protect your Tau.

no they are not.
each army should play to its strengths. ie shooting for tau.
AF

AbaddonFidelis wrote:no they are not.
each army should play to its strengths. ie shooting for tau.
AF

See, that's the thing. Your Tau aren't going to get to shoot if they are getting shot at at well. But if you can pay a few extra points to give them a cover save all the time? Sounds good to me!

Taking Kroot to be Kroot? Nah, not worth it. Taking them to keep your other models safe with body shields? Totally worth it.

the board should have cover on it..... if it doesnt have enough terrain then sure bring your own ie kroot.

Plunk them on an objective in cover, go to ground, get yourself a sweet ass cover save and hold the fething line.

Kroot are good, but not in a way that space marines are "good". Kroot take a lot more thought and strategy to use well. They die very easily, and can't do all that much in shooting, or in CC against a competent opponent. Its more in the application than just throwing them into battle hoping they do well. You can infiltrate, outflank, or deploy normally, and it really depends on what you plan to do. Some people use them to act as impassable to deep-strikers, or as meat shields or speed bumps, in which case they might be deployed normally. If I have a forest, i might infiltrate them in there, especially if there is an objective there or its not in my deployment zone. I also like to use them to outflank, for different reasons depending on the context. This isn't always reliable, because they can go onto the wrong side and be wasted, but I've outflanked onto an objective in a capture and control game once, killed the guardians claiming it, and claimed it for my own.

Their lack of armour works against them, as does toughness 3. Their low LD means they need to do lots of damage to not losea combat, and will often see them sweeping advance'd if they are not used properly. They are fragile, and decidedly risky, but they can shine if you use them well. Also, they are pretty cheap, and they are more flexible than firewarriors in their role. Their uses are also abstract, and may not directly be involve with wiping out the enemy.

You should try to be creative in how you use them, and be careful.

I find them pretty good and how to use them has been covered. They take a bit more thought to use well. Most people will use them a few times not knowing the best way to use them. Will use them wrong and it means they totally suck. Its always the model never the player.

Generally, I use my Kroot as objective holders (in forests if possible) but they help to deal with a few situations as well.

They can be used as bubble wrap, counter assault, fire support (while performing another role), outflanking assault or shooting, infiltrating to assault or shoot, expendable unit to push back enemy deployment in Dawn of War, etc...

Generally you should be using the Kroot in an objective holding role, and for 70 points base with 10 models in what is effectively power armor (in a forest) they are very good at that role. Occasionally an opportunity will arise to use them more effectively, (such as infiltrating them behind LOS blocking terrain to counter the advance of an aggressive footslogging guard army on one side of the table, to list one very specific situation) this is where the unit shines.

A fairly reliable unit all around that can potentially cover very devastating gaps in your army (the need for bubble wrap against certain enemies) or perform a role that is unprecedentedly effective for their points cost under specific circumstances.



In regards to how I would use them, a basic 10 man squad with a few hounds if you can spare. Hounds are great when absorbing charges or charging most enemy squads. They allow you to hit first at I5 then remove Hounds instead of normal Kroot when your opponent hits back, allowing those Kroot to hit as well.

In small squads avoid Shapers, they are only really good for a Ld boost. In terms of offensive power more basic Kroot or Hounds are more efficient. You may want to take them regardless if you are worried about Ld. This becomes an increasingly good choice in larger squads as the set cost of the Ld boost benefits a larger investment.


If you do decide to take Shapers, I would avoid giving the squad the armour saves. They almost never apply to shooting (doubly so if you are in cover) and their only main benefit is in assault, where they can reduce the number of wounds you take marginally, helping to win combat. This can be a good thing when facing things like Orks where a wound here and there can win you combat, but the cost of saving one model in CC is 6 points, which buys you another Hound (or almost a Kroot), so same squad durability (or almost), but more attacks. Generally, I see this extra model as more effective than a model saved. Furthermore, against very weak enemy squads the armor save will likely be wasted as your Hounds take out the enemy. Likewise, against an overwhelming cc force, the armor saves will be hard pressed to save many models. In small squads I would advise more models over the saves, which leads to the conclusion that large squads are the ones that would take them. Unfortunately these large squads are more vulnerable to ranged firepower and the saves just don't usually help there. I do have to say though, that If you figure out a way to use them effectively or have points to spare they can be useful, albeit rarely IMHO.

I can't say much about Krootox. When I first really looked at them they struck me as inefficient compared to Kroot and Hounds. (not to mention the loss of Infiltrate) I haven't really looked at them since. I am sure someone more educated could help you out here.

I would avoid using them in a Devilfish personally but I run Fire Warriors in each for FOF with Markerlights. Kroot can't pack enough firepower into the Devilfish to make them efficient as passengers and can't use Markerlights as well. If you have spare Devilfish around, (from Fire Warriors which for some reason don't need theirs or from Pathfinders) some Kroot hitching a ride can be a good idea but is situational. It may be more efficient to have them hold an objective, on the other hand, they may serve you well in the Devilfish.

Good luck if you choose to use them! Advance our Tau Empire!

I think if you are going to take kroot make ALL your troops kroot and suddenly you have a horde army with some kickass hammerheads as backup. You could almost make it work like an ork army! Kroot are boyz, battlesuits are nobz, devilfish are trukks etc. Etheral to make them all fearless!!!

It may not win any games but it would be fun!

I say don't take them. I killed a whole unit of croot just with one assult sergeant and a Chapter Master.

Kroot are good.
They reward more creative uses.

Tau are not really a shooting army.
They are best at placing shots where they need it, rather than an uber shooting army.

Oh, and ignore anyone that says Kroot aren't worth it because if Tau players didn't have to take firewarriors they wouldn't, in the competitive scene that is.

They are not a combat unit, dispite what their stats look like in relation to other Tau. They are a utility unit.

I hate to remind people about the Kroot Road block and the stupid White Scars player........................................

Tau are not a shooting army?
That's news

A 'real' shooty army would be Guard.
Tau are more about Manuverability and Getting Shots where they need it.

Seriously... the weight of fire is not really much and they are more about quality of shot.

And I'm glad I can bring you this news, it's not really hot-off-the-press, but I'm sure you'll absorb it eventually.

Kroot are good for certain things as already mentioned. I tend to flank with mine, As I find setting up in bubble wrapped castles/gunlines to ba a tad dull, it is effective though. If there are no objective for the Kroot to try and flank too, I'll try and lure my opponent by flowing towards one side, and then hope my kroot get that side to flank on . Since the side they get (and when they come on) is chance, it's not really a solid tactic, but it is fun when it works.

The only thing more common in Imperium of Man armies than flamers is meltas, and flamers do ugly things to kroot.

Sanct
like you said. Quality of shot. Shooting.
AF


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't see that the 3+ cover matters if they aren't threatening anything.

But it's not what they do best, it's placing that shot that is primary, hence what I said first.

IMO, you look at things too one-dimensionally.

They don't threaten anything?
They threaten to win the game by being scoring.
They need to be removed and if you have to deal with a 3+ cover then that sucks for the opponent.
They have essentially bolter equivalents which isn't too bad....I think they have better offensive power than the equivalent number of fire warriors.

7 Fire warriors average .7 vs. MEQ.
10 Kroot average 1.25 vs. MEQ.

The issue you see is their poor application and relative fragility...hence the cheapness and hordish look to them.

Kroot are a good area denial force. Infiltrate them and deny drop pod armies/Deep striking armies an entire area of terrain that they cannot hit. Also, 2 Squads of 17-18 coming in from the sides is great for just the sight of that many models outflanking.

You can decide to sit and shoot on objectives in woods. Take all Kroot for this. Hounds will only do good when facing a charge.

You can decide to outflank for a quick charge on the side of the board. Take hounds for this and a larger squad. A shaper might work as well but I've never thought it was worth it. I've had a large squad of Kroot take out a couple of GKTs.

Another option although not very great is to outflank for rear shots on enemy armor. S4 weapons cause glances on 6's. With 10 Kroot you get 20 shots at 12" which should give you a glance.

Mainly watch out for flamers. Those thing will Roast Kroot alive and make it seem like thanksgiving for the enemy.

Sanct
well it's silly to say "tau aren't a shooting army, they're a quality of shot army" I mean what are you even talking about? Quality of shot is shooting.

What you call 1 dimensional I call clarity. I'm wither winning or losing making good decisions or bad ones. Your approach is more "well sorta... I mean it's kinda good... maybe it's useful in this 1 obscure situation... It's not bad... it all depends" the game isn't as complex as you think. It's enough to say a choice is good or bad based on the most likely result of using it.

I don't have time to kill a bunch of bolter guys sitting in cover while I'm getting fragged by crisis suits broadsides etc. Once I've killed those things I can just roll back and flame the kroot off the objective. I don't understand why you think "not bad" is enough. It's not. A unit has to actually be good to justify fielding, not just ok.
AF

I've seen outflanking kroot glance my friend's manticore to death.
They're cheap, and I don't see why not to run a unit just to provide cover for your models, or outflank and kill someone's infantry squad that's not pro at cc.
And in woods, they're roughly equivalent to space marines which is pretty good for ridiculously cheap models.

a normal tac marine IMO is worth about 10 points so if they could take their armor with them when they moved I could see that....

AbaddonFidelis wrote:no they are not.
each army should play to its strengths. ie shooting for tau.
AF

well then you must know nothing about 40k, as well as playing to its strengths an army must try to limit its weaknesses and with Kroot being better in combat as the others say they can act as bubble wrap for the fire warriors and hold a unit in combat so the tau with WS rubbish don't get killed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:Sanct
well it's silly to say "tau aren't a shooting army, they're a quality of shot army" I mean what are you even talking about? Quality of shot is shooting.

What you call 1 dimensional I call clarity. I'm wither winning or losing making good decisions or bad ones. Your approach is more "well sorta... I mean it's kinda good... maybe it's useful in this 1 obscure situation... It's not bad... it all depends" the game isn't as complex as you think. It's enough to say a choice is good or bad based on the most likely result of using it.

I don't have time to kill a bunch of bolter guys sitting in cover while I'm getting fragged by crisis suits broadsides etc. Once I've killed those things I can just roll back and flame the kroot off the objective. I don't understand why you think "not bad" is enough. It's not. A unit has to actually be good to justify fielding, not just ok.
AF

Why do you Space Marine players always think you are the best, I never said were they the best unit to use, I asked if they were worth the points you pay, and by the way, how will you kill the crisis with ur TMs when your stuck in combat with some kroot and when you win your squad is less leaving the crisis suits to finish the job...

"well then you must know nothing about playing 40k"
lol ok whatever

AbaddonFidelis wrote:"well then you must know nothing about playing 40k"
lol ok whatever

and on top of that, you must not know how to post a quote...

Godz
if I can I'll ignore the kroot if they attack me in cc I'll counter attack them with enough force to destroy them and then move on. Face it you're tau you're not going to whip marinesor anyone else in cc AF

AbaddonFidelis wrote:a normal tac marine IMO is worth about 10 points so if they could take their armor with them when they moved I could see that....

Why 10? 170 for minimum squad... lets say the Vet/ML/Flamer totals 20 points, that's 15 points per model...which is the old cost for Marines. They are actually 16 with respect to the 'additional members'....so 10 is kind of a wierd number and it would be nice for you to explain it.

At 170 points you could get 24 kroot...it is alot of cow bell for pretty cheap.
_________________

@GoDzBuZzSaW:
As I said, his comments are pretty overgeneralized or one-dimensional to put it nicely. A wider picture is what I'm trying to introduce
_________________

AbaddonFidelis wrote:well it's silly to say "tau aren't a shooting army, they're a quality of shot army" I mean what are you even talking about? Quality of shot is shooting.

Well, there are degrees of status. Zerkers can shoot...does that make them shooty? Yes it does cause apparently we can look at things in one light and only see it in that light.

They are about placement of their shooting first and foremost.
Granted, the definition/description must be quite different between the both of us.

I define a shooty army as one that doesn't care for movement (ie sit and shoot).
Tau can not just sit and shoot, they do not have the BS or weight of fire to back it up. They must move and they must deliver the goods where they need it.

What you call clarity I call 1 dimentional (as you make overgeneralizations galore). I'm wither winning or losing making good decisions or bad ones <--Try again?. Your approach is more "this is the only way to play it, do it"... the game isn't as simple as you think. It isn't enough to say a choice is good or bad based (most likely) not using them or just repeaiting the doom and gloom that is found on the internet.

I fixed that for you.

I don't have time to kill a bunch of bolter guys sitting in cover while I'm getting fragged by crisis suits broadsides etc. Once I've killed those things I can just roll back and flame the kroot off the objective.

That's fine if you don't have 'time'.
Just know that there is more ways of using them that is beneficial to the Tau player... It could very well be that you have poor Tau players in your area, or Tau players that don't like them...which doesn't mean they are bad.
You can flame them later, but all the while the kroot are shooting back. You need to commit to expose yourself to take out the Tau supporting elements, and the kroot can do other things besides sitting on an objective as they only need to be there turn 5+.

I don't understand why you think "not bad" is enough. It's not. A unit has to actually be good to justify fielding, not just ok.

Because of the way you word and give out 'advice'. It's terminal, overgeneralized, and the same internet drone that sounds like you have no real experienes against stuff when used correctly.
The game is simple when you don't think about how to use units differently or more appropriately.
The game is simple when you think in black and white... which it never is. Shades of Grey sound familiar?

-Sanct.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:Sanct
well it's silly to say "tau aren't a shooting army, they're a quality of shot army" I mean what are you even talking about? Quality of shot is shooting.

What he means is that the IG is shooty in that they have all this dakka, right? And this dakka is going every which way, left, right, up, down, everywhere. Well, their dakka is cheap and they have so much they can toss it around whereever feels good. But now the Tau are different. The Tau have really really BIG dakka, but they don't have a lot of it. For every 3 lascannons an IG player can have, Tau get about 1. They have to make every shot count, and on top of that, they're not reallly always well suited to getting across the board, up close to the big scary chainsword wielding marines. Kroot are a cheap infiltrating troop choice. If you can't figure out how awesome that has the potential of being, well, then I don't think I can help out.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:well then you must know nothing about playing 40k

lol ok whatever
and on top of that, you must not know how to post a quote...

Can we keep this garbage limited to the Space Marine tactics please? Playing to your strengths is a part of 40k. This is very accurate, but at the same time, incomplete. You don't run around making Assault IG armies. It just doesn't work. At the same time, a good player doesn't play the game on the opponent's terms. You have to make a balance. Get some guys up danger close to melee so that the rest of your army does what it's there to do. Kroot do this very well.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:Godz
if I can I'll ignore the kroot if they attack me in cc I'll counter attack them with enough force to destroy them and then move on. Face it you're tau you're not going to whip marinesor anyone else in cc AF

Actually Fire Warriors have quite a good chance in close combat against Gretchin... 3+ to wound, re rolls to hit if i have farsight, just whopped them in CC, don't matter if Gretchin are nooby, you said Tau cant beat anyone in close combat

AbaddonFidelis wrote:Godz
if I can I'll ignore the kroot if they attack me in cc I'll counter attack them with enough force to destroy them and then move on. Face it you're tau you're not going to whip marinesor anyone else in cc AF

If they held the squad of tactical marines...to then take up more resources with the counter attack, and then die...making them available to be shot at again in the next Tau turn......they have done their job, and then some. I would call them all-stars really.

It's not always about making points back or what is dead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Firewarriors can beat anything not T7 and higher in combat...

Seriously... if you play the game long enough you will be horribly surprised at what they can kill in combat when options are limited.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:"well then you must know nothing about playing 40k"
lol ok whatever

and on top of that, you must not know how to post a quote...

Lol, u2 b careful mod might come getcha.

My experience with kroot: They are definately fun to play with. i will never do anything but outflank with them. its like having a 40 boy squad of orks come out right next to your objective that the space marines are holding. Sure, they have armor...but numbers will beat that armor really quick. 3+ saving does not make you invulnurable to EVERYTHING.

Some tau players swear by the kroot. usually i have heard of 2 squads of 12 being the minimum that the "Pro" tau players take.

and i gotta say, having 80 kroot, and a couple hammerheads and broadsides to back them up.....thats a crazy idea, but scary all the same.