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just remember you get grey by mixing black and white.
AF

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Kroot have at least one use. We can agree on that.
So to our audience...the question is answered: Yes.

Only use Kroot if there is a lot of trees or you have points to waste. My buddy plays Tau and after fighting my BA he completely stopped using Kroot because they'd get massacred.

@SanguinaryGuard:
They don't 'need' trees to be effective.
Kroot are supposed to be massacred...the point is that they did it for a good reason.

In addition, they are not really combat units, so it's not too suprising they were dropped by BA...but more importantly did you seal the deal with shooting or combat?

Bat rep/pics? <---this would actually help us see what he can do otherwise or see if they were used poorly or rolled poorly, etc.

-Sanct.

Kroot are worth it totally. All five of my gaming friends play Tau, yes all of them. I am the sole Space Marine player. Kroot are very fragile, flamer = ten dead kroot. BUT: They are still a very solid unit. Many people will tell you that the Tau's backbone is crisis suits but it's truly kroot, fire warriors, other battlesuits, and railguns. Kroot are commendable becuase of their ability to outflank as well as to give their controller a massive fistful of dice. I am regularly trying to stave of forty kroot plus some longer ranged fire power. Kroot are a horde unit, and you can't just plop ten down and expect them to do good.

NOTE: Tau are a shooting army through and through, though some Tau armies go for quality, they're still shooting none the less. Just look at kroot: 140 points for forty dice? AUGH! I think that even units that are not as powerful have a place and can be strong, just as long as their commander can see their potential. I also think you should not litter the forum with petty quarrels...

Welcome to Dakka Mustela.

They need to get there first..., call it what you will. I have explained my rationale for calling them a mobile army before a shooting one; to reiterate, it is the differing point of view on what is a 'shooting' army. I am more critical of delivery while others have a more general view.

Sanctjud wrote:Welcome to Dakka Mustela.

They need to get there first..., call it what you will. I have explained my rationale for calling them a mobile army before a shooting one; to reiterate, it is the differing point of view on what is a 'shooting' army. I am more critical of delivery while others have a more general view.

That's good, as long as your not one-dimensional and only look at models for their stats and point costs, what some people don't realize is that in some situations they can really help you win a game if you use them correctly

I played my game with the new tactics - it was against Nids and the kroot did really well, with a squad of 16 i only lost 4 and i cause 5 wounds to a Mawloc in the final turn! they were a really good choice for me and if i had caused 1 more wound to the mawloc i would have drawn the game. even though i lost, the kroot were a good asset to my army and i am definitely going to use them in future games.

That is very good to hear! Good luck in the future!

@GoDz:
I see what you did there!!
Anyway, I'm glad they did well. As black and white as winning/losing is, it does not fail to show things working well or not.

Sanctjud wrote:@GoDz:
I see what you did there!!
Anyway, I'm glad they did well. As black and white as winning/losing is, it does not fail to show things working well or not.

yeah, it was an objective game and i had placed my objective in the ruins and put the kroot there to hold it, and in 5 turns i only lost 1 to shooting as i took my cover saves well, but his warriors were unlucky not to hit their shots

although i did not win, there was alot of tension, there was only 1 wound between a loss and a draw for @cheapbuster and the 6 wounds of the mawloc kept him from losing, but the advice on how to use the kroot helped me get close, and that means that what you guys have told me works, thanks.

@AF

in the battle, my crisis commander killed 7 termagaunts and 3 warriors in 3 rounds of combat (yes the warriors had 2, 2 and 1, wound.) my commander only took 2 wounds from them (yes the gaunts were easy and did nothing but i was glad that the warriors only did 2) but that is amazing for a tau can do and i won every close combat battle in that game, luck or not, the tau still won combat and you one-dimensional view on 40k gaming has been proved wrong

What are you talking about buzzsaw? You lost.
If I were you i'd be looking into the reason for that, not
ra-ra-ing my kroot.
AF

the margin for the defeat was a single wound i would call that a very close defeat and also the game favoured the tyranids from the start maybe his army list could have been more mobile but he didn't have the models to make it possible

Wow, then every game I've played against tau has been stupid. No wonder They always get shot to gak within like 2 turns

Samus_aran115 wrote:Wow, then every game I've played against tau has been stupid. No wonder They always get shot to gak within like 2 turns

maybe thats because the tau players dont know how to use kroot

Probably. That, or he's a terrible player who thinks that vespids are good

troll alert!!!!!!!!

Kill
you said: "the margin for the defeat was a single wound i would call that a very close defeat "

yes maybe. but I don't see how you losing proves me wrong. w/e. I don't understand structural dynamics or calculus either. I'm sure there's an explanation.
AF

You don't understand calculus...? Well, there's one mystery solved: AF isn't through High School yet.

Personally I don't like taking tons of Kroot. My playstyle works better with mobile fire warriors and 1 massive Kroot squad instead of multiple squds. I use the Kroot as both an intimidation factor (32 chickens is a lot to deal with) as well as a mobile force. I am lucky that most of the terrain we have at my LGS are trees so I can just have good cover and move like they aren't there. This doesn't discount the fun of charging them hounds first into an enemy squad. My personal record is taking out 3 SM bike squads in cc without firing any shots.

As to the comments of "just ignore them", would you ignore 30 boyz coming at you? The stats are very similar and if truly ignored your gonna have up to 98 attacks coming your way (left out Krootox since they remove infiltrate). As with most units Kroot have a role it just requires a good player to make them work. Yes thats a generalized blanket statement but its still true. Until a true counter argument is presented I'm gonna side with Sanct since even though he uses them a little different he still makes valid structured points.

rocklord
no...I couldnt ignore a squad that big if it was coming at me. I just meant ignoring about 10 kroot sitting in forest cover shooting with their kroot rifles. Someone earlier was saying this was really good because they can shoot and if I shoot back they get 3+ cover. I was answering that as long as they're going to stay in cover I'm going to ignore them. If they look like they're going to assault something it's a little more complicated.... I'd say they become more threatening but remain, in comparison to crisis suits broadsides etc a low priority. I'd rather take my lumps from those guys on the charge. 32 kroot charging is an entirely different situations. They are a priority for flame throwers, or they have to be avoided, or in any way dealt with. I cant ignore that many.
AF

One unit of Kroot is not a disadvantage, but two is a liability.

Kroot are pretty neat. Cheap, Flexible, and reliable.

This doesn't mean Kroot are made out of magic and ponies, it just means they can be pretty cool. Interesting thread BTW...

Could people just clarify how they build their squads? Kroot with a few hounds can actually do serious damage to most other troops units, and they are cheap enough to just throw into combat. Would a miminum Kroot, 5 Kroothound squad be worth taking? Do they need to be much larger than that? At 100 points it seems like a pretty substantial deal.

I commonly see 10 kroot and 3-7 hounds as a kroot unit configuration.

The idea is that a kroot hound is just as good at blocking/interfering/holding as a kroot, but costs 2 points less. So buy the minimum number of kroot, and then economize by filling the squad up to the size you want with hounds.

Rocklord would save 24 points by taking a unit of 20 kroot and 12 hounds instead of 32 kroot, and actually get a unit that was a bit better in assault.

Theres only a 1 point difference actually but I do pull Carnivores before hounds when I need to free up points for something. I like the Kroots ability to drop larger targets with their rifles at a distance. 20 s4 shots at a safe distance of 24in is actually pretty effective. Just don't do it instead of assaulting because if the Kroot get the charge they can bring down just about anything. So long as its not immune to s4 attacks. Also, yes flamers suck but those whirlwinds and their cover ignoring pie plates are the bane of my existance when they hit the table. I think its my own bad luck to have to fire 3 twin linked railguns at em twice to bring em down on average. Mostly because my opponent always puts em in cover. IG have a tank that does that too but I don't see it nearly as often.

Yeah, noticed later that I made a mistake on the cost of hounds. Still a point is a point.

Can't you just outflank your kroot if you know your opponent has whirlwinds? That gives you time to shut the WW down, and/or possibly lets you run on and assault the whirlwind with your kroot if it's close enough to the table edge you come in on.

The sad truth is that it's impossible to change someone's mind when they've already made it up. Even if you don't like kroot, you gotta like the models, all nice and plastic and pose-able with some nice extras like pistol braces and knives. I'll just challenge the "non-believers" to go out and give a test run to a big squad of kroot. If you like them, good, you just found a unit you like. You don't like them, to bad, if they don't suit your fancy, don't use them in the future. My friends and I have found out many times that you can debate all you like, but the only REAL test is on the table top.

Hounds are amazing, my friends don't have them because they hate metal models for some reason, but they have proxied in the past.

Flavius Infernus wrote:Yeah, noticed later that I made a mistake on the cost of hounds. Still a point is a point.

Can't you just outflank your kroot if you know your opponent has whirlwinds? That gives you time to shut the WW down, and/or possibly lets you run on and assault the whirlwind with your kroot if it's close enough to the table edge you come in on.

If I'm playing against somebody I havn't played before I will. Unfortunately at my LGS they always set terrain up so they can be in cover without being close to an edge. It's annoying but not a game breaker for me. I just deal with it or use one of my other armies so that their plan backfires on them.

well ive used kroot for the past 3 games now and they've been quite good so i'll use them in my 1500 point list

Should i use 6 hounds with 16 Kroot?