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What would be the best way to kill an Ork army in a 1750 game?

1 DP Mon, Nurgles rot, Wings 165
Kharn the betrayer 165
10 Termi champs. 2 heavy flamers 410
12 Khorne beserkers 252
12 Khorne beserkers 252
18 CSM 2 missile launchers, 1 auto cannon, 4 heavy bolters, 3 flamers 355
1 Defiler 150

comes out to 1749

If you suggest taking different Personnel or equipment please i'm all ears.

I'd be tempted to drop the terminators and take a second DP. If you want lots of flamers, take chosen or havocs.

Also, how are you fitting all those HW's and flamers onto 18 CSM?

Damn i didnt catch that ill have to make a havoc squad and some chosen then. Thanks for the correction.

take another DP? same type or another variant?

Yeah, the CSMs can be "combat squadded" into havocs. Take five for each squad and give them 4 heavy weapons in each. Or take 2 regular CSM squads and give them 2 special weapons each.

Terminators are a waste unfortunately, and you would probably best be served by taking out the Termies and Kharn.

Add in another Defiler for large templatey goodness and add some rhinos for your men. However, Defilers compete with Havocs for slots.

If you have some points to spare, add in another HQ- either a Daemon Prince of same time or a Jetpacking Lord with Daemon Weapon and Mark of Khorne. He gets his base attacks plus 2d6 extra attacks in combat. Give him a minimal squad of Raptors as a "retinue" and go nutz. He can single handedly wipe a whole ork unit off the board with a good roll.

Berzerkers can handle Ork boyz without any real problems. It might help if you put them in a rhino though.

As for Nobs, defilers and dreadnoughts ruin their day.

If you want lots of anti-horde fire, try 3 squads of 5 havocs with 4 HB's each. With CSM BS, that is a lot of fairly long ranged ork killing power. Can also be used against trucks as well.

If you you are up against a a mech ork force, try 4x AC's as they have a reasonable chance against most ork vehicles (and with 8 shots per squad, you are pretty much bound to do something), plus you still get 8 long range shots against foot slogging orks too.

I've never had any luck with defilers to be honest, so I would normally take havocs over defilers almost every time.

RE the extra DP: I would take just wings and MoN.

Also, if you want your berserkers to be a bit more mobile, drop their number to 10 and buy them a rhino each.

ok so how bout this then.

DP MON, Nurgles rot, Wings 165
DP MON, winds of chaos, Wings 165
10 Khorne beserkers 210
Rhino 65 with havoc launcher (only have one atm)
12 Khorne beserkers 252
10 havocs 2 heavy bolter 2 autocannon 2 missile launcher 180
15 CSM 2 flamers 275
5 raptors with lord and 1 flamer and MoK 135 (i believe)
1 defiler 150
3 obliterators (lack of second defiler) 150

Should be around 1747

Any better?







Automatically Appended Next Post:
Damn meant Nurgles rot for second DP.

Your Rhino's point cost is off, your havoc squad is still very illegal, your raptor squad has a phantom lord, your CSM squad is 115 points too expensive, and you only billed yourself for two obliterators.

Having Bezerkers against Orks is pretty pointless. You'll not get the devastating blow you do against most inferior combat troops - Orks will likely be fearless and can soak up huge amounts of wounds. And the sheer number of attacks they get wll mince through your smaller, elite squads. You do not want to get into a war of attrition with Orks, especially Boyz, who'll get three to one points-wise for your Bezerkers.

Bolters mince Orks - they'll get no armour save (unless they're CybOrks or 'Ard Boyz) so stick with some standard CSM and keep up a steady stream of fire. Then get into combat to mop up.

DPs are good, but again, 30 boyz (180 pts) with the Slugga/Choppa combo will punt out 120 attacks vs your DP's six or so. Even if he kills every one, they'll be fearless and will hit back.

Orks have little anti-tank so Rhino up, take a Land Raider or Defiler (Battle Cannon is your friend) and keep moving and shooting. Combat is a last resort/wipe up rather than your killing blow.

Yeah, I don't have my CSM codex on me at the moment but your points don't add up, and neither do your weapons

Havocs can only take 4 HW's per squad, for instance, no matter how many of them there are. And I don't know off the top of my head but I am pretty sure Nurgle's Rot and Winds of Chaos have different points costs.

I also know that 5 raptors with a flamer is about 105 points, so I doubt very much that a lord with a jump pack and a mark is 30 points.

Is a rhino not 35 points and a havoc launcher 30 pts to upgrade? I am doing off the top of my head so forgive me if im wrong. As for the havocs, does it not say if numbering 10 models a secondary model can take on the following weapons? For the lord it was simply a Aspiring champion. but you are correct my bad will fix here in a sec.

Killing them is difficult since there are so many.
Its better to push them around with two lash Princes.
After pushing them, shoot them with templates.

Off the top of my head, I think the havoc launcher is between 10 and 15 points (not sure as I don't normally take them).

In regular units of CSM and I believe Terminators, when you have less than 10 men, you can only take 1 HW/SW, but once you get to 10+ men you can take 2HW/1HW+1SW/2SW's.

For havocs, you don't get to take extra HW's if you have more than 10 men (would be great if you could ). You only ever get 4.

Miraclefish wrote:Having Bezerkers against Orks is pretty pointless. You'll not get the devastating blow you do against most inferior combat troops - Orks will likely be fearless and can soak up huge amounts of wounds. And the sheer number of attacks they get wll mince through your smaller, elite squads. You do not want to get into a war of attrition with Orks, especially Boyz, who'll get three to one points-wise for your Bezerkers.
...
DPs are good, but again, 30 boyz (180 pts) with the Slugga/Choppa combo will punt out 120 attacks vs your DP's six or so. Even if he kills every one, they'll be fearless and will hit back.

On the topic of KB- Ten Khorne Berzerkers should kill about 18 Boyz with a charge and pistol volley. The Orks, assuming a thirty man Choppa/Slugga with PK Nob squad, kill three back. The rest die from No Retreat (Nob may survive with one wound). If you manage to whittle the squad down with fire, the results will lean even heavier in the 'zerkers favor. However, I'd only take KB if they had a ride as the charge is very important for that match-up.

On the topic of the DP- I don't think the plan is to charge a single DP into an entire squad of Boyz. Nurgle's Rot would cull some of the mob prior to charge, and whrex (is this the result of some terrible breeding program with Wrexasaur and Vladsimpaler?) has more than one DP with which to charge units.

I love charging my 2 MoN DP's into mobs of orks.

And I would virtually never suggest taking a CSM LR - lots of points for not all that much firepower. If we had crusaders or flame LR's it would be a different matter

kk good thing you all pointed it out lol i should be able to put a heavy weapon or two in regular CSMS then correct?

Check the codex - it is pretty clear as to what you can and cannot take

Agreed on Berzerkers needing the charge.

Which is why I tend to keep a few big Boyz mobs in cover. This makes them a much, much harder prospect.

And KBs in a Rhino still have to get out early and slog - and KBs in transport aren't shooting or firing.

Rusty um i have no idea what ur talking about honestly i just wanna kill an orK horde.

lets try this again

DP MON, Nurgles rot, Wings 165
DP MON, Nurgles rot, Wings 165
10 Khorne beserkers 210
Rhino 35 (only have one atm)
12 Khorne beserkers 252
10 havocs 1 heavy bolter 1 autocannon 1 missile launcher 180
20 CSM 2 flamers 310
6 raptors with 1 flamer 125
1 defiler 150
2 obliterators (lack of second defiler) 150

=1742

I think your raptors should cost 130 (off the top of my head again).

I believe you also need to pay more for your Havocs, as I'm pretty sure that your cost is not correct.

Seriously - use a spreadsheet

No its correct my raptors are 20 points each and flamer 5 points making 125 for 6 and a flamer. Havocs are 15pts per model making it 150 for 10 with 10 points per heavy weapon. making it 180 with the three. Unless my codex is wrong.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
So on to tactics

Is there any way to stop their waaagh before it begins? and if so how? With my two DPs can one of them be deep striked in with my raptors, or Should it even be attempted?

Whoops, I was confused about the raptors - was trying to work it out backwards from the raptor configuration I usually take and made an error

And each heavy weapon for the havocs costs a different points value. They are not all 10 points. Again, it would be great if they were.

For example, I seem to remember that the AC is 20 points, the HB is 15 points and I think the ML is 15 as well. I could be mistaken though.

Haha yea ur right i was looking at CSMs not Havocs lol

DP MON, Nurgles rot, Wings 165
DP MON, Nurgles rot, Wings 165
10 Khorne beserkers 210
Rhino 35 (only have one atm)
10 Khorne beserkers 252
10 havocs 1 heavy bolter 1 autocannon 1 missile launcher for 205
20 CSM 1 flamers and 1 heavy bolter 315
5 raptors with 1 AC and 1 flamer 140
1 defiler 150
2 obliterators (lack of second defiler) 150

=1745

I'd take the HB from the 20 man CSM squad and put it in the Havocs - your CSM are more likely to move than the Havocs, so the HB will be wasted.

I'd also think of taking 2 squads of 10, rather than 1 squad of 20.

as an ork player two DP's wreck my green tide day up. Ork armies are always troop heavy in one way or another and lash whip is a very eazy way to impose your will against them. Obliterators are also money against any type of ork you will fight against

Miraclefish wrote:Which is why I tend to keep a few big Boyz mobs in cover. This makes them a much, much harder prospect.

And KBs in a Rhino still have to get out early and slog - and KBs in transport aren't shooting or firing.

A few in cover? You generally keep several hundred points of orks hiding in trees in a futile attempt to save them from KB's? Berzerkers have Frag Grenades, so going in after the Boyz wouldn't be much of an issue. Course, the Berzerkers could instead sit around while other squads shot at the Boyz that aren't moving forward.

Why would the KB have to get out of their Rhino early? They can just hop out the turn they're going to charge. Of course KB in a Rhino aren't shooting; they have bolt pistols. If they can shoot at the Orks, then they had better charge, or they will get mobbed and wiped out in the Ork turn.
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On the list: I agree with Silver that you should shift the CSM HB to the Havocs. I'd also drop the AC from the Raptors and give them a second Flamer. Use the resulting ten points to give two flamers to one of the ten-man CSM squads you'll get from splitting the twenty-man one up. You still have two errors in your list (footslogging KB's, Raptors). Taking Silver and I's advice into account, this is what your list looks like (I think):

HQ-Daemon Prince- Mark of Nurgle, Nurgle's Rot, Wings- 165
HQ-Daemon Prince- Mark of Nurgle, Nurgle's Rot, Wings- 165
Troop-Khorne Berzerkers (10)- Rhino- 245
Troop-Khorne Berzerkers (10)- 210
Troop-Chaos Space Marines (10)-Flamers (2)-160
Troop-Chaos Space Marines (10)-Flamers (1)-155
Fast Attack-Raptors (6)- Flamers (2)-130
Heavy Support-Havocs (10)- Heavy Bolter (2), Autocannon, Missile Lawnchair-220*
Heavy Support-Defiler-150
Heavy Support-Obliterators (2)- 150
*I'd maybe swap the Autocannon for a third HB and then add a second Flamer to the second CSM squad
---
On tactics: The Ork player will get to Waaugh, and you can't do anything other than try to limit the effects of the Waaugh.

I'd avoid DS'ing anything. Just hide the raptors behind the Rhino to avoid having them shot at. Without Icons, DS'ing them close enough to use their flamers is just asking for a mishap.

You're going to have to perform an elaborate dance with all your footsloggers to ensure that you get to charge. How good are you at eyeballing distances?

If the terrain is right, you can always put most of your force up in buildings. That gives them cover and screws up peoples guestimation on how far away they are for declaring charges. It is also a psychological weapon, as people look at a squad in a building and see a hard target.

I'd be tempted to put the havocs on one side of the board, the oblits in the middle somewhere or with the havocs, and the defiler on the far side.

Stick the KB's, raptors and DP's with the defiler and give you a really solid hammer to hook around the side of the board and roll up the flank and force it onto the anvil.

Put the regular CSM on the flank with the havocs to give you a solid anvil to drive the orks onto. Put the havocs as far from the orks as you can (preferably on top of a building) and screen them with the CSM with flamers. With 3 HB's, 4 flamers and a whole load of bolters, any orks who try to take on the anvil should hopefully be destroyed in short order. Not to mention if you put the obilterators over here too

If playing objectives, add one next to these guys.

I'm pretty good at eying distances


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This sounds good, you guys are gentlemen and scholars. Now just to put this to use, is there a preferred side or just a side with a building if possible?

The left side. Always choose the left side.

whrextheimpaler wrote:I probably don't own the codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Damn meant Nurgles rot for second DP.

Get the codex. Your points costs are off, and your units are illegal.