Making up after slapping down a buddy!

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**Jihadnik**

Okay, so my mate is just starting to get into 40k seriously and we had our first game against each other yesterday. Despite not really trying very hard I slapped him down so hard he was dead by the third turn. Now, I want to encourage him to keep playing, but after such a loss he's a bit disenchanted with the game. Every time I try to give him some advice on what he could have done to change things he looks at me like I am just kicking sand in his face. I did give him a wooden spoon after it for a laugh, but I want to know what other players experiences were like when they were trying to get a friend into it without either being a pushover or totally dominating him!

Advice and stories?

Oh, just for the record, despite reading almost all of the codex books and rulebooks backwards, I wouldn't say I'm a really experienced player, just in case that sounded like I was trying to up sell my ability!

**SilverMK2**

Keep playing, but take a weaker list and if that still does not help, make sub-optimal moves. If you think he will stop playing and/or stop being your friend if you keep whipping him, it is best to ease him into the game, gradually ramping things up until he is confident on his abilities and enjoys the game for its own sake, so then you can take off the kid gloves.

**Jihadnik**

Yeah, very good point. I've been reading too much Dakka and I was used to refining lists until they are optimal for the job...a little too optimal I guess!

Like the witch from Hanzel and Gretel right...just gotta fatten him up a bit...

Wow...that sounded less creepy in my head...

**Kommissar Kel**

Also, give him advice throughout the game; let him know when he will want to get into a position to assault a unit, or maybe make a tactical retreat from a given unit. Finally make sure you tell your friend before the game that you are going to do this, and that you are doing it to teach him the things you have learned.

Do this while playing a "fluffy" list, one that fits a theme and has some sub-par units. I see you Play marines so burn the points on a Chapter master, or a command squad(outfitted fluffy not murderously), just generally spend points on things you wouldn't normally just because they are the Codex Standards.

Do not make "Tactical Errors" (unless you actually do screw up; I am really saying do not throw the game) while doing this because your friend will likely recognize what you are doing and get upset that you are playing so low.

**Shas'O Dorian**

When I was learning fantasy me mentor (A multi GT winner) would stop me after I made a terrible move & ask "Now why would you do that?" I'd explain & then he would explain why it was a bad idea (But not give me the right idea) & then allow me to make a different move.
This way I learned what my mistakes were while not getting totally creamed.

**Grey Templar**

the Shas'o has good advice.

i also would give him a Points advantage.

**OoieGoie**

Shas has a very good comment on helping your friend. Also, get him to choose his list of guys. Creating your own army can be fun for some. Maybe have pre-made army lists to choose from.

To encourage another game, tell him you got free pizza and beer.

**Unreal Toast**

Well to get around the problem of making your friend feel uncomfertable when giving him advice you could look online with him and research strats with your armies, even if you already know them, that way perhaps it might ease the blow of telling him he needs practise.

I learnt with a few friends at the same time, we baught our codex and then the big book thing which i cant remember its name and we just read through everything.

**Corey85**

I taught my Dad how to play 9 months ago. He is a really competitive guy who hates to lose, so I was a little worried about playing him. To start with I used my Tau army (which is only half finished and has no heavy weapons). So I took quite a beating those first few games. Once he had very handily beaten me and started to brag about it, I brought a very basic CSM army with bikes, raptors, no tanks and no squad upgrades. From there I slowly introduced tanks, squad upgrades and special rules and I'm now closed to playing at my actual level of skill. Sure it sucks a little bit playing under your abilities but its worth it to have someone stick with the game.

**nerdfest09**

I've been playing for 15 years and i've only played 4 games! got absolutely whooped by tau my first game, so I thought hmmm I can beat them with....Nids, so i bought an army painted it up in secret over two weeks and then when he came over to play my SW, the look on his face was priceless when (i've said this before but it never gets old) I whipped out my Trygon and slapped it on the table! :-), Oh and I ate him that game, he then bought the army off me lol

**Cryonicleech**

Yeah, just try not to go all-out, take a worse list, or my personal advice, practice.

Hell, I used to literally win almost every game of 40k/fantasy when we started out. Now? I barely win a game, or at least it's much closer now.

**Leigen_Zero**

I think the worst thing to do would be take lists/make moves that are sub-optimal etc etc, If you let someone win with bum tactics and a naff list when they play a WAAC guy with a nob biker list then they will feel even worse. Don't change your list (but then again, as I would say to anyone playing at any level, don't be a d-bag about it!), just help him through his first few games, i.e. remember to remind him of the #1 tactic: shoot the killy ones and kill the shooty ones

and gently ease off on the tactical advice as he gets better at it.

**Iur_tae_mont**

When my Friends Taught me, they told me straight up " While learning How to play 40k, You are going to lose big time, just because you are new to Army Building and new to the game itself." After every game, they'd tell me were I messed up or what I could have done differently. even years later, I still have a Habit of asking for C&C after a game and my friends do the same thing as well, just becuase we are now at about the same level(out of everyone in the group, I'm still the worst just because I never really get a chance to go to the FLGS and play) and because we all play such drasticly different armies that it's good to see what your opponent was thinking about when the game was going.

**Ail-Shan**

I like Shas'o's idea, but in a bit of a different way (mind you I've never done this so it's all speculation).

Instead of asking my opponent why they are doing something (because that's basically saying "what's your battle plan") I would ask them to tell me what I'm doing. For instance after I move all my models, ask why I moved each unit where I did, and then explain anything I think they missed. A big thing this shows is how to predict your opponent's actions.

**Shas'O Dorian**

Ali little clarification. he would ask "Why are you doing that" only when I was doing something blatantly wrong.

Keep in mind he already knows he can beat me any day of the week. He just wanted to know my thought process so he could better explain why I was wrong.

**Lexx**

Take it on the chin. The best way to learn what doesn't work is by practice. The more experience you get winning or losing will only make you a better player. If you can learn to have fun and enjoy yourself whether you win or lose a game you'll be life-long involved in the hobby. When i first played guard last edition I would field nothing but carapace armour ( doctrines for the whole army days ). But was dead set on them being a 4+ save army. They weren't completely terrible at the time but definitely not competitive. Of course it took being pounded constantly to make me rethink strategies and go for better tactics.

**croggy**

i always find it better to let my friends use the army i am most confident with while i use one that i am just getting to grips with

for example when i play my little brother he uses my best 2k imperial guard list while i use my orks (which is a proper gak list)

so i am struggling to overcome the tactical disadvantages i have given myself

also sometimes we play identical list and i let him pick the mission and deployment and if he wants first turn or not

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

I always start out with the attitude that the first few games are for getting to grips with the gameplay.

Would have kept it fairly low points and pointed out that it was non competitive. Couple of lads wanted a game of fantasy for the first time last week and it was a massacre, with lots of disappointment. Today they had another game but I insisted more firmly that it was all about getting used to moving, shooting and combat. No fancy extras or magic phase were allowed.

They enjoyed it a lot more and the same lad lost again but this time had a smile on his face after the game. He will be really happy on Thursday when he plays me and doubtless wins

**Grey Templar**

Also realise that 40k isn't for everyone. it isn't like Monopoly or Risk.

it does require a comitment of sorts to play it like you mean it.

**Jihadnik**

Yeah, very true, thanks for all the good advice everyone, some good approaches there that I will use. He was fielding a mostly footslooging Ork list versus some very basic armour in my IG list. Now he's convinced that the way to go is a biker, trukk list, so it appears that all I've done is created a monster for myself!

Thanks again all!

**Smarteye**

The best advise to give a FNG is this website! That way he gets tips from people who aren't their friend, so wont be nice. Just a blunt warhammer of do's and don'ts that anyone should have.

Plus he can come up with new ideas and bounce them off people that aren't you!

**darkkt**

Try for some 'story based games' - so not points restricted, nor focused on 'winning' by objectives. This way you can give the guy a guaranteed win... but you can still have an entertaining game.

For example - a last stand in a fortified position. you take 1500 points, so does he - but he gets to recycle units (so his points are really limitless). He gets to play till you are dead, and you get to see 'how long you can hold out'.

**bucketwalrus**

When my ex-friend (he took the game too far) introduced me to the game. He hit me like a freight train right from the start. Being a WAAC at heart, he would bring the most evil and cheesy lists he could think of and demolish me every game. It was then, when I learned how to play on my own. I was able to even gain a win and a few draws.

Now that his lists weren't beating me anymore. He resorted to cheating.. and thats the end of that.

The moral is, as everyone has said before.. When you bring a new player to the game, go easy on the guy, give advice on everything, but don't make it too easy for him, or he will get over confident and lose to someone and blame you for it or something.

After all W40k is a game to have fun with friends, Don't make it srs business.

**Smarteye**

Save the WAAC attitude for tourneys, imo. I only get srs when prize money is involved and/or I'm sober... lol

**Geemoney**

My friend and i just stopped playing each other. Cause either I win and feel bad then he is mad or he wins feels bad then i am mad. Nothing ever good comes of it.

**bucketwalrus**

Ever considered teaming up with him and doing battles with others? if possible that is.

Yeah he might make you lose some games, but its all part of enjoying the game, and im sure he will learn tonnes from it.

I was teamed up with a newbie chaos player, he decided to take two chaos dreads with multi-meltas. What he didn't know is they they would pivot to the nearest target, not enemy. I lost both my transports, and a large chunk of my berzerkers to his consecutive fire frenzies. we had a blast.

**Arctik_Firangi**

If your mate doesn't want to play competitively, or is not good enough/well equipped to do so, then you might want to give the Battle Missions a go - some of them are not-quite-balanced... There's a Space Marine one where the marines are surrounded with enemy deployment 6" away... and if you fancy yourself at least a better player (if not pro), then have a crack at fighting your way out of that sack. Check out the other missions too - your local GW will have an open copy of the book for you to have a look.

They also can make for much more fun and themed games - this might be your mate's preference as far as his enjoyment of the hobby goes too - it's different for everyone.

**Shrubs**

Jihadnik wrote:Yeah, very true, thanks for all the good advice everyone, some good approaches there that I will use. He was fielding a mostly footslooging Ork list versus some very basic armour in my IG list. Now he's convinced that the way to go is a biker, trukk list, so it appears that all I've done is created a monster for myself!

Thanks again all!

Your codex is about 2 years younger than his so take that into account, you have the advantage whatever you do. On top of that, the IG codex is a really good codex, there's hardly any crap units in it. Go Penal Legion!

**Jihadnik**

Yeah, good idea darkkt, I'll give that idea a go for sure, that sounds like a great way for both of us to win, me to enjoy and him to get a victory while learning!

Also, gonna grab that Battle missions book next time I'm there Arctik, had forgotten about that one and haven't actually checked it out yet.

As for the codex being younger, does that mean there might be another one before next edition...yay...more books to buy...already got suckered into buying WH and DH before they were made obsolete by GW! Worst part was I bought them after I'd managed to find 'special' copies of all the codex online, but I didn't want to be cheap and rip of GW at the time. Turns out they were exactly the same and then they release an identical file a few weeks later...same thing with ork codex too!

**Shrubs**

Jihadnik wrote:As for the codex being younger, does that mean there might be another one before next edition...yay...more books to buy...already got suckered into buying WH and DH before they were made obsolete by GW! Worst part was I bought them after I'd managed to find 'special' copies of all the codex online, but I didn't want to be cheap and rip of GW at the time. Turns out they were exactly the same and then they release an identical file a few weeks later...same thing with ork codex too!

Currently the oldest codexes are WH, DH, Necron and Dark Eldar, those are still from 3rd edition... The general expectation is that those will be updated in the coming 1 or 1,5 year. Which codex is next after that is complete guesswork. It could be any from the list of 4th edition codexes:
Codex: Black Templars
Codex: Chaos Daemons
Codex: Chaos Space Marines
Codex: Dark Angels
Codex: Eldar
Codex: Orks
Codex: Tau Empire

As for you buying the DH/WH codexes; I bought my DH codex after the pdf version came out, and I bought it through amazon..

They are really nice codexes with great fluff and art, not a waste of money imo.