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Im into 40k just to have fun and play, though winning is preferred i dont feel the NEED to. Whats some things that kind of make you do this? -->

Today my girlfriend played her first game (shes nids) against another person (tau) at our FLGS in a 500pt game. I just expected both sides to have a few squads and a nice commander but he rolled out a Hammerhead with a "OmgHalfMyArmyIsUnderThatPiePlate" gun (idk crap about tau) and was my reaction.

She still won though (thanks to 2/3 pie plate shots scattering horribly)



Edited for herp derp spelling

Why did you list it as unwritten rules?

Idk bringing pie plate dropping railgun goodness against someone in their first game at 500 pts seemed like a move to me, im probably over reacting though (since she won )

Best get exposed to the kind of SUPER weapons and abilities early in the gaming career so one can adapt to expect it and learn to counter it.

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:im probably over reacting though

Yes

Shrubs wrote:

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:im probably over reacting though

Yes

Better she encounter these things early and learn to counter them effectively than have unrealistic outlooks on the game.

It was a bit of a dick move, not so much for the template but it's pretty goofy to put a heavy tank on the field in a 500 point game. It's the same as a nid player turning up for a 500 point game with two hive tyrants. You're basically exploiting the low points costs to put stuff on the field that's beyond the other guys ability to kill in low points games. No-one will learn anything, other than 'sometimes in 40K you can put an army on the field that can't lose, and sometimes it'll be an army that can't win, you can accept this and just put up with portion of your games being boring, or you can start to talk to your opponents and increase the chances of getting a good game'.

Which, thinking about it, is a really good lesson to learn.

I had a talk with my buddies about how much "goes" at low points games, as we are playing at 750 points right now. Mostly we all decided it is a cheap move to bring a Monolith or a Land Raider, but just about everything else is good. In 7 games, 4 have featured vehicles: 3 Dreads and a Rhino.

Dreads would be acceptable, sure.

How much does a hammerhead cost? Did the guy have a hq and two troops after that ._.?

The Emperor of Mankind wrote:How much does a hammerhead cost?

A railhead starts at 150. Tau can get troops for 60 (FW) or 70 (Kroot) points, HQ starts around 80.

After the railhead was gone he wouldn't have had much left, huh. ;P

If he had more than one Hammerhead, that could be cheesy. One would be fine though... Besides, she won anyways.

There's much worse things you can do to min-max vs 'nids anyways. Like stealth/crisis suits with burst cannons.

The best unwritten rule is that all Marine/Chaos/Ork Dreadnoughts get 2D6+S vs vehicles when using Dreadnought CCW's.

Of course, that's not the rule, but the first time someone here pointed out that that wasn't the rule and that they only got D6+S (and it wasn't that long ago) the litany of people (long-time posters) going:

"Really? But we've always played it that way? Really?"

... was amazing.

I kinda wish we'd never found out.

Unwritten rule, your guy falls over he is dead!

I wouldn't say that the OP has anything to do with any unwritten rules of 40K so much as it's an unwritten rule of gaming in general.

I don't think it is unrealistic to take a toned down list against a new player the first couple games. With that said FOC's and point costs are there for a reason, if it fits it fits. After playing two or three games with a new recuite I will begin to field harder lists. Eventually when they are comfortable with that I will pull all of the sand bags away.

Actually, I think min-maxed lists with ridiculous choices in low point games are hilarious.

On one hand, it's an advantage.

On the other hand, if I manage to remove that advantage, you're boned.

It's an all-or-nothing strategy (versus the more prevalent conservative "take lots of troops at 500 points for versatility"), and perfectly viable. If you don't like it, well, maybe you should take up chess.

Some hilarious lists I have actually seen include 1000 points of Space Marines:

Librarian 100
Scouts 75
Scouts 75
Land Raider 250
Land Raider 250
Land Raider Crusader 250

And 996 points of Tau:

Shas'el w/ plasma rifle, missile pod, targeting array, HW MT 97
16 Kroot 112
16 Kroot 112
3 Broadsides 225
3 Broadsides 225
3 Broadsides 225

And 990 points of Orks:
Warboss 60
Warboss 60
3 Nobz, BW w/ Deff Rolla, Big Shoota 175
3 Nobz, BW w/ Deff Rolla, Big Shoota 175
3 Nobz, BW w/ Deff Rolla, Big Shoota 175
BW w/ Deff Rolla, Big Shoota 115
BW w/ Deff Rolla, Big Shoota 115
BW w/ Deff Rolla, Big Shoota 115

Sometimes these lists are horrid ideas, sometimes they're great ideas, and sometimes they're just fun to play.

It's a thing to welcome and embrace, because it's creative.

The only rules I know of are written, however we have lots of house rules. For instance our DA players use the war gear descriptions form Codex:SM. I know so cheesy.

Most of the problems with low points games come from the fact that the players probably don't have equal choice in units in terms of what they physically own.

I had this problem last night: my mech IG against SM at 750 points. Ordinarily not a huge problem, but he only had the AoBR stuff plus a razorback and a scout squad. If I get the first round of shooting, his long-range anti-tank is going to be dead - and that is exactly what happened.

Now, if I had a couple IG battlegroup boxes as my army, it might have been a much closer game...

There are no unwritten rules to 40k. There are written ones, however. And you can talk to your opponent about restrictions/missions before you play them.

You don't want to pound a new player, no.

"Welcome to 40k, here is your butt-kicking."

But coddling a new player isn't right, either. We're playing a war game with guns and robotc undead, not pixie wings and unicorn farts. It sounds like she had fun and kept the game close, anyway. So I'd say you were worrying too much.

A mix of troops, vehicles, and special characters would be good so that she could see how the rules for each worked.

The Emperor of Mankind wrote:Dreads would be acceptable, sure.

How much does a hammerhead cost? Did the guy have a hq and two troops after that ._.?

Yeah i mean i wouldnt have thought twice if it were a Dread or a transport or whatever, it was a hammerhead w/ railgun, missle pods, and some kind fo twin sponsoon blasters. Then he had some a HQ suit with jump pack, flamer thing, twin plasma, then 2 squads of 10 fire warriors.

and the whole "If the points fit it fits" thing? yeah it fit, my girlfriend bringing a carnifex to a 500pt game would have fit too, doesnt mean thats its not a dick move. Its a sportmanship thing imo

Dreads dont get 2D6 on vehicles? *mind blown*

I've always wanted to bring a Land Raider to a 500 point game. I mean, it'd be a dick move, but you have to admit, it'd be hilarious. Especially in a list like, say...

Librarian
5 Scouts
5 Scouts
LRC

Keep the Scouts and Librarian in reserve, and tank shock your opponent off the table.

Extreme dickery at its finest.

most the 500 point leagues around here have rules prohibiting AV14 and more than 2 wounds on a model.

Well that's no fun!

Okay, how about

Librarian
5 Scouts
5 Scouts
Vindicator w/ Siege Shield
Vindicator w/ Siege Shield

tgf wrote:most the 500 point leagues around here have rules prohibiting AV14 and more than 2 wounds on a model.

See i was okay with bringing strong HQ's and multi wound models because even fire warriors can drop a hive tyrant if given the distance. Idk about bring Hero HQ's though, Ghaz showing up in a 500 points ork list would be pretty hilarious though

Tau only have a few vehicles... hammerhead (tank), devilfish (transport) and piranha (land speeder).

In all fairness, Tau are such wet blankets in close combat, the only thing he could have taken to be somewhat competitive with a 'nid player is a railhead (hammerhead with railgun).

The tau army is very limited and what works is even more so. He could have taken two warfish for 115pts each and she could have chased him around the table the whole game while he dumped 7 S5 shots into her each turn (each). Or a squad of crisis suits with t/l flamers drops down next to your huge squad... personally I think the hammerhead was the least of what he could have brought..

tgf wrote:most the 500 point leagues around here have rules prohibiting AV14 and more than 2 wounds on a model.

So no Tyranids?

As for unwritten rules. . .For rolling:
Pick up the misses, leave the successes on the table.
The rules actually suggest the opposite.

yeah every army cn spam and minimax something. I find it best to include at least one model with an AV (just because if he ignores his anti tank you get an unkillable model), also some kind of tank busting ability, and some kind of counter charge. no matter what the points level of the game.

My munchkin minimax Eldar list looks like this:

1 farseer, doom @80

5 dire avengers @60
5 dire avengers @60
5 dire avengers @60

3 Warwalkers, 2 shuricannons each @120

5 fire dragons, wave serpent, shuricannon @185
5 fire dragons, wave serpent, shuricannon @185


It's 750 points and pretty abusive with all that melta from the dragons plus all that dakka from the vehicles shuricannons, with the avengers there to dakkadakka or counter charge. At 750 points, there won't be much anti-tank so having 3 walkers and 2 tanks on the table is a mean thing to do, but my fire dragons have all the anti-tank I need, and the multiple shuricannons wreck hordes or light vehicles pretty readilly.

I have only used this list once and it beat ass so hard I was ashamed of myself.

Any army can minimax a list though, just remember to take some anti-tank always, even if its just squeezing in some meltabombs on a space marine sarge. Whatever you can squeeze in there.

at the minimum at 500 points a space marine army could include a land raider, 5 man scout squad, 5 man tactical squad, rhino, and librarian and the entire game would be defined by the land raider. Pretty ridiculous, but I have seen it happen. So always bring your bazooka (or whatever equivalent)

Eh, I'd rather flood the field with Guardsmen, Heavy Weapon Teams and a few veterans at 750 points.

Mech is boring!