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Hey folks!

As I read through the fluff of various codexes, and read various books (reading Blood Angels: Omnibus right now), I have to wonder - why are there still Chaos Marines? Space Marines have a heavily documented and written about method of increasing their ranks - the progenitor gland is removed from fallen marines and saved for implantation in initiates who pass the blood trials, survive the gene therapy, etc. Voila, new Space Marines.

Chaos Marines - they're all centuries upon centuries old. They consider the rest of space marines to be children in comparison. Every time a Chaos Marine falls, they're gone. With all the crusades into Imperial space, the various fights, the untold numbers of Chaos Marines killed in books....

Where the hell do they all keep coming from? They have to be running out or almost out.

From what I can tell, all that fighting within the warp doesn't kill them permanently if they die there.

And they kidnap loyalist kids or use cultist kids to create more if they have to, forcibly indoctrinating them in their belief system and generally rendering them as insane as most chaos worshippers tend to be once they've gone through that much pain.

The ranks of the CSM are being constantly filled with new renegades from all over the place. As a result, they can keep up to strength, generally speaking.
In addition, at least 2 legions have been proven to be able to increase their ranks in the same way as regular marines, by implanting the progenoids into adolescent males (usually kidnapped, incidentally) and "hot-housing" them to Marine standards.

Hope that helped.

Gorskar da Lost: Dunno, last time I said that people cried "OMG NO LOYALISTS DON'T BETRAY THAT OFTENNNNN!", or something to that effect.

Then I'm afraid you've come across a lot of mistaken people. Sorry to hear it.

Chaos marines can create new marines from there slave stocks or just recruit new traitors from chapters . Its also normaly over exageratded how many marines die at times , but a lot of the time they die in quite large numbers becuase of bad tactics and the idea that the chaos gods give a damm.

And last time I said it was on this forum no less

Regardless, I think the answer's been given now

Storm of Iron and some of the subsequent stories discussed the creation of new Chaos Space Marines, as well.

Interesting read, that one.

It seems that at least some of the legions clone marines(/people?) and implant recovered or stolen progenoids to start things off.

Not so much clone as steal them straight off the bat, but pretty much, yeah.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Not so much clone as steal them straight off the bat, but pretty much, yeah.

This too, actually. I know they do both. . .Lookin' at you Ventris!

When a daddy chaos marine and a mummy daemonette love each other very much...

Then they create a HIDEOUS DAEMON ABOMINATION that will burn down entire worlds.

SilverMK2 wrote:When a daddy chaos marine and a mummy daemonette love each other very much...

I pictured a spike-covered power-armor pimp and a bandaged wrapped tri-breasted, claw-handed warp spawn.
Then got to "love" and realized where you were going with that.


Too long in this town. Heh.

This exact question was asked in White Dwarf and one of the GW people responded with a few answers:

Mainly, the weirdness of the warp is too blame. Although to the rest of the galaxy 10,000 have past for many of the traitors is hasn't even been close to that. A traitor marine who fought on Terra and fled into the eye of terror may only be reemerging for like his third battle in the year 40,000.

Well I think the modern chaos dex despite its retched stench of failure, expalins how many space marines lust for power/get bored/hate following orders, and turn to chaos. However they are renegades not legion marines, so I don't really know how the traitor legions are still existing, but its still easy to explain by just saying the warp gives them more than one life, or they kidnap people.

Yeah, they get recruits from children of cultists and captured people. Also, they probably pick some up in the crusades. Also, I think that when they die, they don't really "die," but their soul is returned to the warp and re-manifested as a new servant of the Dark Gods.

Renegades sign up, more are made, some are lucky... or perhaps a 10-second respawn at a friendly base?

Cloning? Perhaps the traitor legions gene-seed had some feline DNA? (Insert ridiculously improbable borderline impossible crazy explanation here)

All those Space Wolves who went chasing off into the Eye had to go somewhere I guess

kirsanth wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:When a daddy chaos marine and a mummy daemonette love each other very much...

I pictured a spike-covered power-armor pimp and a bandaged wrapped tri-breasted, claw-handed warp spawn.
Then got to "love" and realized where you were going with that.


Too long in this town. Heh.

OH GOD, I can't stand up now..

abaddon=gargamel wrote:Yeah, they get recruits from children of cultists and captured people. Also, they probably pick some up in the crusades. Also, I think that when they die, they don't really "die," but their soul is returned to the warp and re-manifested as a new servant of the Dark Gods.

Not for every single guy, just the more powerful and blessed of the Gods. Casualties do hurt them. There is a grimy difference between renegades and the traitor legions, same goes for there recruitment methods.

In the Ultramarines Omnibus:


I like The Night Stalker's idea about it being due to the way time passes in the warp, this combined with the fact that in my view (I have no idea how Khornate followers survive), CSM are typicalyl grizzled veterans who, in the fluff, just tend to take minimal losses anyway: They are a rare sight on the battlefield and I'm sure if there's too much "risk" they can just chuck daemons and cultists at a problem, no?

Plus time flows strangely in the warp. Its arguable in some parts only a few hundred years or even thousands of years more have passed in some parts of the warp. Allowing some legions to retain strength or use the increased passed time to rebuild even more.

I figure the supply of World Eaters should haved run dry in fairly quick order.

ZF-

they should. but, they don't because they are SUPER DUPER MAGICAL SECRET UNICORNS!

The CSM have their own Dark Adeptus Mechanicus. Methinks they'd be perfectly capable of creating space marines from cultists.

Or at least rough equivalents.

abaddon=gargamel wrote:they should. but, they don't because they are SUPER DUPER MAGICAL SECRET UNICORNS!

Or, y'know, they simply recruit more renegades who are susceptible to Khorne. Being a World Eater doesn't mean you have no brain, you know, they can still act in a semi-normal manner. They are also still capable of performing Berserker Brain Surgery(tm).

Not all World Eaters are Berserkers.
Not all Berserkers are World Eaters.
Berserkers were more common among World Eaters than the other Chaos Legions. That is all.
I think it likely that Warbands of different cults get replenished as formerly undivided warriors fall down a certain path or other and find those of like mind.
Events in "Storm of Iron" and "Soul Hunter" lend to this theory.

I think that a Chaos Warband could have fought in the Heresy and fled to the Eye, and fought in the 13th Black Crusade, then fought in one of the earlier Crusades, say 5th.
In that order, all of this in the span of a couple years for him.

Quirks like this can also account for the seeming constant numbers for the Chaos Legions.
As well as recruitment. Not all of the legions have lost their ability to create new marines.

And don't forget that Fabius Bile is still out there, creating new masterpieces every day.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

abaddon=gargamel wrote:they should. but, they don't because they are SUPER DUPER MAGICAL SECRET UNICORNS!

Or, y'know, they simply recruit more renegades who are susceptible to Khorne. Being a World Eater doesn't mean you have no brain, you know, they can still act in a semi-normal manner. They are also still capable of performing Berserker Brain Surgery(tm).

OR MAYBE THEY'RE SUPER DUPER MAGICAL UNICORNS.