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Just a question that's always bugged me. The Emperor's finest, the elite of the Imperium...and they spray and pray from the hip like an '80s action movie?

Bugs me too. I read somewhere that they have very little if any recoil is why especially since the "bullets" being bolts are self propelled rockets. They don't have stocks because they don't need them.

I just wish I could get them to fit on my scouts >.< serious I have so much trouble getting HB to fit right on models.

I suppose the cheep answer is that they have targeting software up in their heads that assist with the aiming and shooting.

Some bolters DO have stocks.

But the ones Marines use don't because they have power armor to stabilize their aim instead.

Melissia wrote:Some bolters DO have stocks.

But the ones Marines use don't because they have power armor to stabilize their aim instead.

That still doesn't explain why some of the best warriors in the galaxy are dumb enough to fire from the hip.

They're not firing from the hip?

They can "lock" their armor, effectively negating recoil.

What about the IG using Bolters?

They're not Astartes pattern bolters, so likely some form of recoil compensation mechanism is built in.

Or more likely, they're like the .50 caliber anti-material rifles of today, and tend towards being semi-automatic with operators being trained in how to brace themselves to absorb the recoil.

You can hold a gun at eye level and aim without need of a stock. Marines would be able to do this easily.

Because its awesome to spray from the hip!

Stick a cigar on their helmets and imagine them saying "Say hello to my little friend!"


On a more serious note, they probably do aim down sights from further distance. The spray from the hip comes in during close range firefighting and spraying while charging.

Except everything we've seen in regards to Astartes in close quarters firefights actually has them aiming down the sights...

Mr Nobody wrote:You can hold a gun at eye level and aim without need of a stock. Marines would be able to do this easily.

None are depicted doing so, as far as I can tell. Hence why I ask why they fire from the hip. If you're unsure of what I'm talking about, take a quick glance at the cover of Codex: Blood Angels.

@Kanluwen: It's not a recoil question. It's an aim question.

The best answer I can think of it that this is the Imperium. That's just how it came out, so that's how they've been doing it.

For 10,000 years.

Seaward wrote:

Mr Nobody wrote:You can hold a gun at eye level and aim without need of a stock. Marines would be able to do this easily.

None are depicted doing so, as far as I can tell. Hence why I ask why they fire from the hip. If you're unsure of what I'm talking about, take a quick glance at the cover of Codex: Blood Angels.

As another aside, it's also important to remember that part of the helmet that the Astartes wear has a sort of "vidlink" to the bolters themselves, allowing the wielder to fire it without needing to pop up the sight.

So you don't necessarily need to be looking straight down the sight proper, unless that link is somehow severed or the bolter/link is out of alignment.

There badass juiced up (geneseed) jocks of the 40k universe. But really, if we can make a Shotgun that fires 20+ rounds every 5ish seconds with no recoil and self targeting weapon system now. I don't see it being that hard for super strong soldier, with advanced powered armored to just point and shoot. Hell they should beable to point the gun behind them and still hit there target.

Again, Astartes power armor negates the need for stocks for the most part. As far as recoil goes, it nullifies it. As far as aim goes, they usually have a vid link to their weapon's point of view. Hell, even regular Stormtroopers are often equipped with something similar (see Dark Heresy: Ascension), albeit not as advanced.

They're also firing a .75 caliber explosive round. They're not going to be 'spraying' anything. A single bolt will absolutely ruin any human sized target. Given power armours recoil compensation, it wouldn't be hard to put a single round in a target. Anything bigger, firing a quick 3 round burst would do plenty of damage - and now we're actually talking about shooting something the size of a vehicle.

Simple as "they don't need stock"
they can shoot good enough without the stock, something without stock is more compacy

1. Boltgun has relatively low recoil, may contain recoil compensation mechanism.
2. Marines are very strong and have power armour.
3. There is a gun-camera which displays the line of sight inside their helmet.

Hence there is no need to aim from the shoulder bracing against a stock.

I do not know if all of this is specifically supported by the fluff.

As for the recoil, current fluff from Deathwatch says otherwise.

Why does the lack of stocks on bolters mean they fire from the hip? They can still raise it to eye level, that's what the iron sights on the bolters are there for. Stocks aim in keeping the gun steady, superhumans don't need it. Stocks aid in reducing recoil, superhumans don't need that either.

I see where you could get the hip firing idea from though. Since in the history of GW there have been about 1 or 2 marine models aiming down their sights. But I don't think that is reflective of the fluff.

I read somewhere that because of power armours sholder plates a stock is impractical so astartes learn to do without

whatwhat wrote:Why does the lack of stocks on bolters mean they fire from the hip? They can still raise it to eye level, that's what the iron sights on the bolters are there for. Stocks aim in keeping the gun steady, superhumans don't need it. Stocks aid in reducing recoil, superhumans don't need that either.

I see where you could get the hip firing idea from though. Since in the history of GW there have been about 1 or 2 marine models aiming down their sights. But I don't think that is reflective of the fluff.

Agree totally, space marines have super human strenght, vision, reflexes and can control themselves in war conditions that would cause even the most hardened guardsman to have shellshock. Add to this the tech involved in a powersuit, the space marines helmet and astartes bolters they don't need stocks, seeing as they can see the sight no matter where they are placed and fire true consitantly

As to bolters used outside of the space marines i don't know

whatwhat wrote:Why does the lack of stocks on bolters mean they fire from the hip? They can still raise it to eye level, that's what the iron sights on the bolters are there for. Stocks aim in keeping the gun steady, superhumans don't need it. Stocks aid in reducing recoil, superhumans don't need that either.

I see where you could get the hip firing idea from though. Since in the history of GW there have been about 1 or 2 marine models aiming down their sights. But I don't think that is reflective of the fluff.

Iron sights are another annoyance - one amongst many of the infinite implausibility of the bolter, sure, but an annoyance none the less.

Edit: Also, much better to argue that they have a Shadowrun-style Smartlink sort of system rather than simply a gun cam, as a gun cam is a terrible, terrible idea if only for the huge hit to situation awareness and field of vision you would take every time you wanted to aim at something.

The older styled MK7 Godwyn Pattern Bolters have a fold up stock but they are always modeled with the stock folded down so yes some do

Seaward wrote:

whatwhat wrote:Why does the lack of stocks on bolters mean they fire from the hip? They can still raise it to eye level, that's what the iron sights on the bolters are there for. Stocks aim in keeping the gun steady, superhumans don't need it. Stocks aid in reducing recoil, superhumans don't need that either.

I see where you could get the hip firing idea from though. Since in the history of GW there have been about 1 or 2 marine models aiming down their sights. But I don't think that is reflective of the fluff.

Iron sights are another annoyance - one amongst many of the infinite implausibility of the bolter, sure, but an annoyance none the less.

What is implausible about the iron sights?

Plasma Guns have a stock-like mechanism, but I'd imagine the recoil from a Plasma Gun is several orders of magnitude higher than that of a Boltgun.

whatwhat wrote:

Seaward wrote:

whatwhat wrote:Why does the lack of stocks on bolters mean they fire from the hip? They can still raise it to eye level, that's what the iron sights on the bolters are there for. Stocks aim in keeping the gun steady, superhumans don't need it. Stocks aid in reducing recoil, superhumans don't need that either.

I see where you could get the hip firing idea from though. Since in the history of GW there have been about 1 or 2 marine models aiming down their sights. But I don't think that is reflective of the fluff.

Iron sights are another annoyance - one amongst many of the infinite implausibility of the bolter, sure, but an annoyance none the less.

What is implausible about the iron sights?

Nothing's implausible about iron sights. I do find it a little implausible that, according to fluff, a regiment of Imperial Guard can have better targeting optics on their lasguns than a Space Marine chapter can have on their bolters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nurglitch wrote:Plasma Guns have a stock-like mechanism, but I'd imagine the recoil from a Plasma Gun is several orders of magnitude higher than that of a Boltgun.

I would think it would be the exact opposite, actually. Plasma, as I understand it, is basically just energizing gas and then using electromagnets to accelerate it. I wouldn't think there'd be any recoil whatsoever.

Seaward wrote:

I do find it a little implausible that, according to fluff, a regiment of Imperial Guard can have better targeting optics on their lasguns than a Space Marine chapter can have on their bolters.

Does these Guardsmen have a helmet with multiple target data and maybe even a direct link to aim their gun?
Maybe a Space Marine won't benefit from that targetting optics as he already can see his target good enough?

Seaward wrote:

whatwhat wrote:

Seaward wrote:

whatwhat wrote:Why does the lack of stocks on bolters mean they fire from the hip? They can still raise it to eye level, that's what the iron sights on the bolters are there for. Stocks aim in keeping the gun steady, superhumans don't need it. Stocks aid in reducing recoil, superhumans don't need that either.

I see where you could get the hip firing idea from though. Since in the history of GW there have been about 1 or 2 marine models aiming down their sights. But I don't think that is reflective of the fluff.

Iron sights are another annoyance - one amongst many of the infinite implausibility of the bolter, sure, but an annoyance none the less.

What is implausible about the iron sights?

Nothing's implausible about iron sights. I do find it a little implausible that, according to fluff, a regiment of Imperial Guard can have better targeting optics on their lasguns than a Space Marine chapter can have on their bolters.

Then you're obviously reading fluff wrong.

The fact that Astartes have optics that link their helmet's sensor suites to their gun kind of defeats the need for a big honking scope, doesn't it?
Guard optics, by the by, on lasguns?
They're bogstandard, equivalent to the "ACOG" scopes you see on battle rifles right now. 4x magnification, at best, unless you're in a Marksman unit or have scavenged something better.