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Wolf Lord, Thunderwulf mount, WC, SS, Wolf tail talisman, Saga of Majesty, 2 fenrisian wolves 235

Iron Priest, Thunderwulf mount, 4 Cyberwolves 155

Iron Priest, Thunderwulf mount, 4 Cyberwolves 155

5 Grey Hunters, flamer 75

5 Grey Hunters, flamer 75

5 Grey Hunters, flamer 75

4 Thunderwulf Cavalry, 1 w/ PF, 1 w/ meltabombs, 1 w/ bolter, 1 naked 230

4 Thunderwulf Cavalry, 1 w/ PF, 1 w/ meltabombs, 1 w/ bolter, 1 naked 230

3 Thunderwulf Cavalry, 1 w/ PF, 1 w/ meltabombs, 1 naked 175

5 Long Fangs, 4 Missile Launchers 115

5 Long Fangs, 4 Missile Launchers 115

5 Long Fangs, 4 Missile Launchers 115

= 1750

CHARGE!

The Grey Hunters need transports, or you risk losing all of your scoring models to ordnance, massed fire, or any podding/deep striking/fast moving unit that can kill 15 Space Marines. I mean.....you have a lot of killy units in this list, what with the 14 Thunderwolves, but if your opponent kills your scoring models and then hides or tarpits your wolves, he can win just by holding an objective, or force a tie just by keeping one model alive.

If I give the grey hunters rhinos, theyre the only vehicles I have on the field, then they will suck up all the AT fire my opponent has and die immediately, and I will have wasted 105pts. Those grey hunters will only ever have to hold 1 or max 2 objectives, while the thunderwolves contest the rest. And remember the GH will be sitting in reserve till around turn 2-4, and by then the thunderwolves should have eaten a lot of the enemy.

Jabbdo wrote:If I give the grey hunters rhinos, theyre the only vehicles I have on the field, then they will suck up all the AT fire my opponent has and die immediately, and I will have wasted 105pts. Those grey hunters will only ever have to hold 1 or max 2 objectives, while the thunderwolves contest the rest. And remember the GH will be sitting in reserve till around turn 2-4, and by then the thunderwolves should have eaten a lot of the enemy.

Whilst what you say is true, the same can be done to your TWC. Id just shoot every AT I have at your wolves, they will die easily due to lack of invu saves. Then again, its extremely easy to kill 5 man Grey hunters on foot, reserve or no reserve. Dreads will have a field day with leftover TWC.

Easily? Really? Have you ever heard of cover saves? Plus, guess what, you have ONE turn to shoot them before they eat your face. And exactly how are you shooting my grey hunters when all your fire support is dead?

those twc really need some storm shields. Any close combat army will most likely eat this list.

Would you say 20 black templar terminators, all with PF's, and a castellan with LC's, all of them with preferred enemy, would be dangerous in CC?

Jabbdo wrote:Would you say 20 black templar terminators, all with PF's, and a castellan with LC's, all of them with preferred enemy, would be dangerous in CC?

yes it would be. And if your implying that you somehow managed to come out on top against that. Quite frankie you were lucky, very lucky.

Not lucky, skilled, that's the word youre looking for bud

The wolf lord puts down terminator squads by himself, and charging an iron priest and a TWC squad into a termi squad means they can at best only take out one pf, either the priest+wolves or the whole TWC unit, then the other PF smushes them.

My friend had 3 units of termis, each with 2 assault cannons, and a command squad with 2 assault cannons+castellan. Then he had 2 MMHF speeders, 3 lasplas crusader squads (lascannon+plasma gun), oh and OFC the emperors champion. My TWC killed a crusader squad, then they ended up in a huge combat with his terminators, and all died, leaving 2 terminators+emperors champion alive. At the end of the game he had only 5 crusaders+an immobilised/weapon destroyed speeder left, I had all my long fangs and 14 grey hunters left, I won 2-1 by objectives.

It is hard to beat a good list in the hands of a skilled player. It is even hard to be a mediocre list in the hands of a skilled player. I think the grey hunter squads look vulnerable too, but if your table-top experience belies that, then so be it! Go forth and rock face!

They do appear vulnerable on paper, I agree with that, but the number of games I've played with small numbers of troops on foot shows that in practice they really are pretty hard to kill, and usually my opponent cant concentrate on them enough to put them down.

IMO the list is good, and I'm an OK player at least. Screwed up several things in that game, like deploying the lord too far away from the TWC for them to benefit from saga of majesty and resolving charges in the wrong order so my TWC got in the way of eachother (those 60mm bases really are pretty unwieldy).

Too much on not effective HQ and elites. Drop the Iron priests (not good enough in a non mech list) Some TWC, and lone LF for more GH and transports or you will get wrecked by almost everything.

I'm just going to say you must not see many Vindicators or Medusas in your area that are used right...

Really...this list looks so awesome...but is disastrously flawed:

1) No Storm Shields on the Thunderwolf Cavalry makes them just about an automatic write off...I'm sure they have performed well; however, everyone by now knows to take down Thunderwolves...you force Cover Saves and Invulnerable saves...

2) Iron Priests are awesome, especially when kitted with 4 Cyber Wolves...so they can stay.

3) So many Long Fangs...so few targets of opportunity...add some flexibility in this list and take2 Heavy Bolter Razorbacks instead of 1 Long Fang squad...use the left over points to give someone a useful piece of gear (i.e. a Storm Shield)

4) Grey Hunters...you need some transport for the folks who out charge you...(cue Dark Eldar).

That's all I'm offering...you can take it or leave it as you like.

Jabbdo wrote:
IMO the list is good, and I'm an OK player at least.

So if you don't want advice and review of the list, what are you after?

Seawards got a point. If you don't want opinions, dont post lists.

Jabbdo wrote:Easily? Really? Have you ever heard of cover saves? Plus, guess what, you have ONE turn to shoot them before they eat your face. And exactly how are you shooting my grey hunters when all your fire support is dead?

Yes, EASILY. Cover saves aren't enough to save you from most AT fire. Do you know how cumbersome it is to wield that much TWC? TH/SS terminators will rip you to shreds, and it will usually take you 2 turns before you can hit a properly positioned fire support units. Have you ever eaten a volley of 20 bolter shots? how about 45 loota shots? 20 pulse rifle shots? Broadside shots with markerlight support? Vindicators? those things will melt, unless you try to weave through cover which will probably delay your assault another turn. The main problem about TWC is that they are too bulky. Even more so if you run 15-20 of them.

Then again you have probably persuaded your mind how powerful your list is. Then again, why ask for criticism?


PS: I think you don't have collected that much TWC models and have actually played this list. Cool story bro?

This list is very vulnerable to high strength shooting attacks, and relying on cover is not a good idea, though it seems you think so, so as others have asked, why even post the list if you think its good?

Jabbdo wrote:Would you say 20 black templar terminators, all with PF's, and a castellan with LC's, all of them with preferred enemy, would be dangerous in CC?

Tbh I really wasnt sure if you were being sarcastic or not (no, I really couldnt tell ). To me, that's a one-way ticket to buttrape town for anything without an invul save. Skill would imply you equipped your units to statistically be superior to these guys. Beating them has nothing to do with it since the dice could have just been in your favour (i.e: lucky). In addition, a simple unit of 30 Hormagaunts with Toxin sacs will rip your wolves to shreds through sheer amount of attacks (statiscally, they will inflict somewhere around 10 wounds after saves. 4 TWC only has 8 wounds and the Hormagaunts would go before you). A group of 20 Terminators can do much more, and by a large margin too.

You seem to really undervalue the use of rhinos. Their point is to run up and get blown up. There's no way a rhino can ever make back it's points by shooting something, it's statistically nil. If they manage to blow up the rhino, you can hide your Grey hunters behind them. Best case scenario the rhino is wrecked and creates a terrain piece where your troops can hide behind. Worst case scenario it blows up and leaves a crater (which wouldnt be that much different from your troops being in the open anyways) and hampers your opponent running in to contest the objective. You may also wanna consider upgrading those Flamers into Meltaguns.

Seaward wrote:

Jabbdo wrote:
IMO the list is good, and I'm an OK player at least.

So if you don't want advice and review of the list, what are you after?

That was a response to a different person, not as a statement in general. Why would I post a list if I didnt want comments on it??

Stop trying to start internet drama.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All right, a response to everyone in general.

Yes, str10 hurts. Tough gak. If I see vindis or medusas, it WILL hurt, and theres nothing I can do about that, except spread out to minimise hits to 1-2 and try and suppress it with my long fangs before I can kill it.

SS for the TC cost way too much. I need to take at least 2 per unit if I want them to be any use, yes? Thats 180pts. The cost of the 3rd cavalry unit. Sorry, too much.

Not many people here seem to understand how the list works. I'll explain. You put down 6 fast reasonably killy cavalry units, and force your opponent to choose which ones to kill, because those units WILL be assaulting turn 2. Note the word "reasonably". Those cavalry units arent meant to go toe to toe with THSS, nob bikers, seer councils, or biker command squads. They're meant to be killy enough to be able to put down any non CC specialists. If you put down a THSS unit, do you really think I'll charge it?? No. I'll avoid it and *maybe* torrent it with 3+ squads later if I have to. I wont try and take it on 1 on 1. Come on.

Oh, and if you want to kill the cavalry by forcing cover saves... thats 73 cover saves you have to force on t5 to put them all down. GL.

I dont undervalue the use of rhinos, I undervalue their use in this list. I'd rather have 3 naked GH squads than 2 in rhinos, as those rhinos will go down fast, then I just have 10 guys on foot opposed to 15.

And nope, wasn't being sarcastic about the templar termi matchup, playing a rematch today. I can put up a batrep if it would convince you guys on this list further?


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darktau wrote:This list is very vulnerable to high strength shooting attacks, and relying on cover is not a good idea, though it seems you think so, so as others have asked, why even post the list if you think its good?

Are you saying that people should only post up crap lists here???

I'm aware of what the list is vulnerable to, read the thread please ^^

Of course I'm relying on cover. Why, should I put my TWC out in the open to die? lol

Looks like the fight was pretty hairy (but expected) seeing as how you lost all your TWC. Also regarding SS on TWC: You dont need 2 per unit, just 1 is enough.

I'll drop the Iron Priests for this extended protection:

-Swap the meltabombs for a Storm shield on each unit, give the Lord a Runic armor. Personally this kind of list is better when led by 2 wolf lords, but I guess your putting up with extra bodies. Extra points would also go to adding another Long fang member to the unit.

-Dropping the 2nd Wolf priest will give you access to 2 or 3 Lone wolves. I think they are probably peskier to deal with, and you might need that 2d6 from the chainfist against land raiders being rammed down on your long fangs and grey hunters. If not, you can keep this guy as a countercharge unit to protect your backline assets.

-The grey hunters are good as it is.

Taking 1 SS still wont make me able to go up aginst THSS and the like, so its just a point sink. I'm considering it, believe me, and I'll have to playtest, but right now they just dont seem like they'll work. If Im gonna take SS Ill take a 5 man TWC squad with 3, but that wont fit into this list.

The idea of this list is to have lots of fast, fairly killy units, thats why the iron priests are here. Lone wolves could be an option, but they are a bit too slow.

Swapping an IP and 1 TWC would give me another lord, I've been thinking about that option and will probably try it at some point.

Land raiders arent that bad, I'll either avoid them if there's only 1-2 and kill everything else or smash them with str10 if needed.

Dreadnoughts would have haydays with your list...if someone takes 2, you'll be enjoying picking up wolves 2-3 at a time which is something you can't afford.

You're discounting normal hand to hand units that could easily tie you up for quite a while unless you dedicate 2 squads of Thunderwolves to take down. Don't forget these guys can just be tar-pitted as well.

When you do play your next game, definitely post a battle report just so everyone can fully understand what you're working with. From my experience running 10+ Thunderwolf lists, things either go REALLY good, or they go down hill almost impossibly fast.

If this list works for you that's great. I don't think it would do well in my area or in a tournament. i can see several armies with tournament builds that would barely consider this list a speed bump. If you're just playing for fun then I like the theme - but competitive play is an entirely different prospect.

Bugs - Gaunt spam with poison attacks would see the over-sized puppies of the board. The sick thing is that the bugs could do it for no points invested - just using free generated bugs. The tyrant and tyrant Gaurd with boneswords would wreck face in close combat. hive guard would whittle the TWC down by forcing you to take armor saves.

Orks - green tide would tarpit the wolves and eventually pull them down thru weight of attacks and hidden powerklaws. Battlewagon spam would make it hard for you to get to the roks inside and the deffrollas would be brutal. Kan Wall - Str 10 DCCWs, do I need to say more?

Dark Eldar (new) - poison attacks everywhere. And with no vehicles to distract them, all the AP2 dark lances and blasters would be pointed at the TWC. Long fangs are brutal on DE but once they are gone (2 turns - max - splinter cannons) the mobility of the DE will give you fits.

Space Wolves - Long fang spam right back at you! You will most likely have to break cover to get into charge range and then your TWC will be eating 15 missle launchers. Yes, they won't instant kill you but they wound on 2's and deny you a save. (This might be the best example of why TWC need a storm shield - something you can assign the low ap shots to and have a chance of saving.)

Imperial Guard - Lascannons! Get you Lascannons here! Heavy weapon squads and vendettas would lay a torrent of fire into theTWC and long fangs. Mutli-lasers and heavy bolters would shread you. Battlecannons and demolisher cannons would be extemely painful and you do not have a reliable way to silence them (where are your Wolf Scouts?)

Space Marines, Vulkan list - Twin-linked multi-meltas for the TWC, deepstriking speeders withhvy flamers for the long fangs, Thundernators for close combat. Almost everything in this list is twin-linked or mastercrafted - is yours?


Like I said at the beginning, if this is just a fun list then keep playing it. But it needs massive changes to become an all-around competitve list. There have been several great ideas already listed by others on how to adapt your list - I recommend them.

I think I'd probably counter this list by putting 25% terrain on the board and pointing out that you have 14 TWMs.

For me having SS on the TWC isn't so much about in combat as it is getting to combat... being able to put the high AP rolls on that 1 TWC with a SS give me a much better chance of reaching combat. Yes you use cover to the best of your ability, but a good opponent is going to find a way to take at least a few shots on you when you aren't in cover. Or else he is keeping you stuck in cover where your wolves can't use their speed as much (I think we have all been on the wrong end of move through cover.) So to me that is the benefit of the SS not to go toe to toe against TH/SS Termis but rather to get you to that combat and let the wolves do the carnage that they were made for.

Just my two cent's take it are leave it, but i think there is a reason it keeps being suggested.

Jabbdo wrote:Would you say 20 black templar terminators, all with PF's, and a castellan with LC's, all of them with preferred enemy, would be dangerous in CC?

This is all gak. All of it.

A castellan is a bad two-wound marshall, black templar terminators with PF are not assault terminators.

Why did you play the worst thing you could find?

Well feth, MY list of thunder wolf cav can take out grots and chaos spawn.

Firstly, a master of sanctity with claws and servitors would be a challenge, the assault terminators of any REAL codex would gak all over you.(Really you're going to say 2+/5++ power fist guys are a threat?)

LordWaffles wrote:

Jabbdo wrote:Would you say 20 black templar terminators, all with PF's, and a castellan with LC's, all of them with preferred enemy, would be dangerous in CC?

This is all gak. All of it.

A castellan is a bad two-wound marshall, black templar terminators with PF are not assault terminators.

Why did you play the worst thing you could find?

Well feth, MY list of thunder wolf cav can take out grots and chaos spawn.

Firstly, a master of sanctity with claws and servitors would be a challenge, the assault terminators of any REAL codex would gak all over you.(Really you're going to say 2+/5++ power fist guys are a threat?)

20 BT terminators are good when you want to wreck av11 with their assault cannons. Master of Sanctity would leave my crusader squads at ld8 taking a test at the first casualty, sounds like fun.

I fethed up things in that game against those TWC, I'll certainly admit it, but Jabddo got some pretty lucky t1 charges off, isn't it fun constantly rolling 6s, and it really was close until the end.

I do not personally support taking SS. They are certainly good, but when I heard that they were 30 points... makes me think again. I think a strong reason why Jabbdo isn't playing SS is because we don't have close to any dual rock lists in our meta, the armies he plays against don't play multiple Land Raiders or Death Stars.

Jabbdo isn't the nicest guy in the world, he gets way too carried away flaming, but so far both he and I have been called liars or gak. Both sides need to cool down and be open-minded

All haizelhoff says is true, and its true I'm not the nicest guy in the world. Also true about the game, it was very close until the end, I really couldn't tell who would come out on top until turn 5.

I don't suffer fools lightly. You can put up all the suggestions you want, but if I say I'm not going to adapt according to those suggestions, well, tough gak.

If I don't like your suggestion don't start crying about it. You can feth off.

I've explained my reasons on this list. I've explained how it works. If you can't be bothered to read the thread, well, you can feth off.

I'm not a gak. I won't assault your THSS deathstar 1 on 1. Don't be a slow. Maybe if your 5yr old brother was playing this list, then he might do so, but I wont. I'll avoid them, or tarpit them with the lord. GG.

Guess what, 3 grey hunters killed 40 conscripts today. Stop picking on them.

@ Lord Waffles

feth off with your master of sanctity. Have fun when I run your ld8 crusaders off the board

If you dont think 20 terminators with preferred enemy+castellan+EC is a threat, then you can just feth off. Really.

The worst thing I could find?? What, you think fething grots would be better??

Stop trolling, you donkey-cave.


@ Everyone.

As far as I'm concerned, this thread is closed. I'm obviously not gonna get any intelligent responses. Come troll it as much as you like, I don't give a feth. Thanks for reinforcing the crappiness of dakkadakkas tactica intelligence guys


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LordWaffles wrote:

Jabbdo wrote:Would you say 20 black templar terminators, all with PF's, and a castellan with LC's, all of them with preferred enemy, would be dangerous in CC?

This is all gak. All of it.

A castellan is a bad two-wound marshall, black templar terminators with PF are not assault terminators.

Why did you play the worst thing you could find?

Well feth, MY list of thunder wolf cav can take out grots and chaos spawn.

Firstly, a master of sanctity with claws and servitors would be a challenge, the assault terminators of any REAL codex would gak all over you.(Really you're going to say 2+/5++ power fist guys are a threat?)

Your list?? mind posting it up, instead of just boasting how great it is.

How in the world can you write such crap? There have been some good suggestions with reasoning behind them listed here. If you choose not to use them, fine, but that doesn't mean you should take a shot at those you spent time to respond to your list.

That you state that all the response do not qualify as intelligent prove that you cannot take it if anyone gives you feedback.

Great job on rage quitting - no go ahead and take your ball home since you lost the game.

Jabbdo wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, this thread is closed. I'm obviously not gonna get any intelligent responses. Come troll it as much as you like, I don't give a feth. Thanks for reinforcing the crappiness of dakkadakkas tactica intelligence guys

What makes it hilarious is that this is a guy running fifteen walking Grey Hunters saying it.