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This isn't a rant about their sales strategy - but about their employment rules.

One of my very good friends was in my local store doing his managers training, and recently he was let go at the end of his probationary period.

The reason? Apprantly not selling enough Core Games (i.e. island of blood, assault on black reach)

This makes absolutely no sense to me - you're NEVER going to sell these sets to regulars who already have their own armies, and to make it worse, around 60-70% of your customers are your regulars! So what I'd like some opinions on, is - should this be a viable target for the employees of GW?

I think it's crazy, YMMV.

Its silly yeah but working retail sucks.. GW is no different than others I imagine, they use it to get as much work as possible just so they can hire someone else..

Repeat process over and over and never have to give anyone a raise (only the promise of one)

Yeah, that's not a gW-only issue. Managers' jobs are quite often linked directly to sales targets.

Don't get me wrong, that makes perfect sense - but his sales on other things were generaly ok (or so he told me) - it was the cores he was picked up on.

The goal of a GW store is not to sell to regulars. A redshirt's single most important task is to bring new blood into their games.

Number of customers is meaningless, it's how much those customers spend. A regular that comes in periodically and buys a box of orks is nothing compared to a brand new player whose mom forks over for the starter box. As long as you keep the new players rolling in, return customers are meaningless.

liam0404 wrote:This isn't a rant about their sales strategy - but about their employment rules.

One of my very good friends was in my local store doing his managers training, and recently he was let go at the end of his probationary period.

The reason? Apprantly not selling enough Core Games (i.e. island of blood, assault on black reach)

This makes absolutely no sense to me - you're NEVER going to sell these sets to regulars who already have their own armies, and to make it worse, around 60-70% of your customers are your regulars! So what I'd like some opinions on, is - should this be a viable target for the employees of GW?

I think it's crazy, YMMV.

As a person who has done the retail shtick- if the business is very results driven, do not expect people to get off light if they do not meet or beat projected goals.

Managers above all must be held accountable for making a store successful. Thanks to all the horror stories I hear about how GW has cut back on hours, have a very goal oriented business model, and have stores in all the strangest, out of the place locations- they need to squeeze every dollar they can from the people that work for them.

If their margin for sales (what they take home after all salaries, expenses, rent, losses via theft and damage occur) is low, don't expect to hang around for long. Only veteran workers who have had prior success may get some slack for a while, but eventually a manager will get fired or a location closed in order to try a new person or location to succeed in.

But I spend on average at least 30-40 a month on warhammer - and when you buy a core game, you "become" said regular do you not? As you'll then be buying the smaller items?

I don't know about regulars being the customers.

GW seems very keen to focus all energy on new gamers. Recruiting etc, so starter boxes, then an army each.

A big splurge of purchases in 1 year and then done, move onto next kid.

Long term customers do not seem to be part of the focus, they require more work and spend less in the allotted time period.

I do know that each GW shop employee dreads you going in there and just buying a paint or a single brush or blister, they get reviews on their sales and whether they were able to push up the sale from the paint or brush to bigger boxes of kit.

On the other hand, it's not all doom and gloom, your friend can now find a job that pays more than a paper-round and not be at the mercy of crazy sales targets.

Tell him to /friend Rick Priestley on facebook and when he does his next amazing thing, he can get a job with him.

Not to rag on your guy, but it's possible they used the sales figures as a pretense. I'm not saying he did a bad job, but maybe they decided they didn't need him after all. Or they are only interested in people that can meet their quotas, no matter how difficult.

Nor are the starter sets exclusively for new players, they're also a great incentive to start a new High Elf, Ork or whatever army. It isn't just about new players, it's about getting any player to commit to six months worth of purchases. Sure, you won't be able to sell starters to every individual customer, but across the full range of customers there should be plenty of possible sales.

Magc8Ball wrote:The goal of a GW store is not to sell to regulars. A redshirt's single most important task is to bring new blood into their games.

Number of customers is meaningless, it's how much those customers spend. A regular that comes in periodically and buys a box of orks is nothing compared to a brand new player whose mom forks over for the starter box. As long as you keep the new players rolling in, return customers are meaningless.

Yeah that one. I have enough stuff in the spare room to keep me going for years, a n00b will buy tons of stuff especially since they don't know what's actually viable so they'll happily pick up that box of Shining Spears that's been sitting on the shelf since 2002.

Kid_Kyoto wrote: a n00b will buy tons of stuff especially since they don't know what's actually viable so they'll happily pick up that box of Shining Spears that's been sitting on the shelf since 2002.

Just having picked up 2 boxes of shining spears myself, I feel hurt by that comment

To be fair, im no noob and have a plan for them, but still they aren't that bad. You just have to know how to use them

GW Managers (and other sales staff) have core box sets as there main KPI's

If you dont meet the KPI in any job then you wont stick around for long; maybe tough buts that's business for you...

I think what makes GW different is you're expected to own, build, and paint an army from each core set. That's what i find a little ridiculous, and as you're supposed to be working at work and are given very little time to work on an army during working hours, you must be painting models at home.

liam0404 wrote:This isn't a rant about their sales strategy - but about their employment rules.

One of my very good friends was in my local store doing his managers training, and recently he was let go at the end of his probationary period.

The reason? Apprantly not selling enough Core Games (i.e. island of blood, assault on black reach)

.

Guess what? It's an absolutely essential part of the job. I see the sales at my store slip when we don't concentrate on core games and bringing in new gamers, and GW is only 25% of my sales. If it's important to me, it's vastly more important to GW.

They have researched what they need to do to be a healthy company, set criteria, train staff to meet the criteria, and get rid of staff that don't meet the goals.

Not too crazy when you look at it that way.

Rule #1: Sell more lead.
Rule #2: Space Marines always win.
Rule #3: See rule #1.

Daggermaw wrote:I think what makes GW different is you're expected to own, build, and paint an army from each core set. That's what i find a little ridiculous, and as you're supposed to be working at work and are given very little time to work on an army during working hours, you must be painting models at home.

The thing is, the people who want to work for GW, by and large, have a passion for painting minis anyway and would be painting minis after work, no matter who employed them.

To the OP, It's not as if your friend wouldn't be aware of the KPI's or sales targets. I'm not commenting on if the firing is reasonable or not but your friend signed a the bottom of the KPI notice.

Daggermaw wrote:I think what makes GW different is you're expected to own, build, and paint an army from each core set. That's what i find a little ridiculous, and as you're supposed to be working at work and are given very little time to work on an army during working hours, you must be painting models at home.

And if a GW employee doesn't want to paint models at home, I can't imagine they'd be employed long. It's a job where you sell toy soldiers and teach people to play and paint. If you don't own your own army, getting one painted up isn't that much of a chore for someone at a GW store. Cheaper models than I get wholesale, some time to paint on the job, and they should know how to paint and model, or they aren't worth employing.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:I do know that each GW shop employee dreads you going in there and just buying a paint or a single brush or blister, they get reviews on their sales and whether they were able to push up the sale from the paint or brush to bigger boxes of kit.

Ha! That must be why my local GW guy always smiles through gritted teeth at me. It's been years since I've bought anything GW on impulse (ever since the big price rises started really). Now I go into my local GW, look at every model I'm interested in directly (for some reason pictures on the internet or in catalogs never work quite right for me. I always misjudge the scale), take meticulous notes on the prices of each, and then plan my buys over the next several weeks/months. And in the meantime I often pop in for a single pot of paint or something, but mostly just to see if anyone is playing a game. On principle I resent up-selling tactics, so I absolutely refuse to buy anything recommended to me (because if I truly wanted to buy it, I would have already chosen it.)

He tries to be nice to me, and his business looks slow enough that it's not like it costs him anything to be civil (usually there's no one else in the store). But I can tell he's not happy with our business relationship. I must be murder on his reports.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Yeah that one. I have enough stuff in the spare room to keep me going for years, a n00b will buy tons of stuff especially since they don't know what's actually viable so they'll happily pick up that box of Shining Spears that's been sitting on the shelf since 2002.

It's a shame you think the only possible reason to buy less effective units is cluelessness. Isn't it possible a player might look for the challenge, might prefer theme over tournament effectiveness, or consider what he wants to paint over tabletop effectiveness?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/229665.page

read this thread.

sebster wrote:It's a shame you think the only possible reason to buy less effective units is cluelessness. Isn't it possible a player might look for the challenge, might prefer theme over tournament effectiveness, or consider what he wants to paint over tabletop effectiveness?

QFT

I just bought 2 boxes of "sub-par" shining spears, I love the models, their fluff and want to try them in my army, if they dont work out, atleast i'll have some really nice looking aspect warriors.

I dont' think KK is saying that's the only reason. He's just saying that Shining Spears would be a tough unit for a new player, no matter how cool they look.

When I started IG I bought three Ogryn second hand. They didn't last long and I while I still have them, I'd have been better buying a chimera with that money.

And if a GW employee doesn't want to paint models at home, I can't imagine they'd be employed long. It's a job where you sell toy soldiers and teach people to play and paint. If you don't own your own army, getting one painted up isn't that much of a chore for someone at a GW store. Cheaper models than I get wholesale, some time to paint on the job, and they should know how to paint and model, or they aren't worth employing.

You're right, painting you're own army isn't that big of a deal when you're doing it for yourself. But when you have to assemble an army for a game you couldn't give a gak about?

I only bring this up as I interviewed and was offered a job at GW a few years ago and ended up not accepting because i was told that i would be expected to buy, build and paint an army for game systems I don't play and have zero desire to play, ie. fantasy and LotR.

When you think about how little GW pays and they are expecting you to build 3 armies that you paid for, albeit at a discount, on your own time, its a bit much.

And if sales are ever important what does forcing me to have a painted LotR army do for sales?

Is a person that sells fords but doesn't own a car a worse salesman than one who built a ford in his garage? I don't think so.

No, I think his implication that the models have been on the shelf since 2002 make his point clear about the SS and I disagree.

I know of two people locally to me that have bought Aun va within the past 2 weeks, just to paint and have some fun fluff battles with. Just because he is considered one of the worst models to play doesn't mean only noobs will buy him. They like a challenge and have painted most of their things.

He is just painting everyone with the same brush.

Lol, right. He's making statements about people without a full appreciation of the facts. You can say that, because you're a magically mind reader and not doing, well, basically the same thing he is.

It was a joke. Anybody who works in sales does what they can to unload stale inventory. It doesn't matter why they bought the damn things, you're just happy to make a sale.

People's veiws on GW really do amuse me.

Yes, the managers of the store have sales targets and if they fail to meet said sales targets their postion will be at risk, espically during a probationary period. This is the same for all retail work, and always has been. Also we are in the middle of a recession, thier are lots of skilled sales people out of work, why employ a sub-par enployee when their is such a high calabre of staff in the current job market. Sorry to hear your friend lost his job, but it's a tough market place.

Regarding the comments about staff only wanting to sell to new customers is crazy talk. Yes the bulk buyers are a key to sales figures but the regular bread and butter money comes from the regulars who spend £20-£30 a month. Without them GW would crash and burn fast. Also if they didn't want the regulars why do they cater for them so much, gaming tables you can use, painting stations, all manor of things designed for the regular customer is right their in the store.

I personally never get the hard sell from my local GW staff, maybe it's a good shop, or maybe they can tell i'm in it for the long hall so bugging me aint going to work. I dont even get asked the 'you need any glue or paints' comment when i go to a till. Yet Boot's still ask me if i want a Boots card everytime i top up on toiletries.

Polonius wrote:Lol, right. He's making statements about people without a full appreciation of the facts. You can say that, because you're a magically mind reader and not doing, well, basically the same thing he is.

No, im reading exactly what he has written. What he has made is a sweeping statement about models and sales that he may or maybe not regard as worthy of purchasing, regardless of circumstance, which is incorrect on a grand scale.

But here I am caught in the semantics of a situation that is neither here nor there.

You know what, you're right. I'm going to pencil "KK being mean to Shining Spears" into Polonius's Big List of Atrocities right above Apartheid and right below Phil Hartman's murder.

Or should it be higher?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Magc8Ball wrote:The goal of a GW store is not to sell to regulars. A redshirt's single most important task is to bring new blood into their games.

Number of customers is meaningless, it's how much those customers spend. A regular that comes in periodically and buys a box of orks is nothing compared to a brand new player whose mom forks over for the starter box. As long as you keep the new players rolling in, return customers are meaningless.

Yeah that one. I have enough stuff in the spare room to keep me going for years, a n00b will buy tons of stuff especially since they don't know what's actually viable so they'll happily pick up that box of Shining Spears that's been sitting on the shelf since 2002.

Hey! I bought Shining Spears cos they look cool... alright?

liam0404 wrote:This isn't a rant about their sales strategy - but about their employment rules.

One of my very good friends was in my local store doing his managers training, and recently he was let go at the end of his probationary period.

The reason? Apprantly not selling enough Core Games (i.e. island of blood, assault on black reach)

This makes absolutely no sense to me - you're NEVER going to sell these sets to regulars who already have their own armies, and to make it worse, around 60-70% of your customers are your regulars! So what I'd like some opinions on, is - should this be a viable target for the employees of GW?

I think it's crazy, YMMV.

Thats what retail is - sales. Welcome to Life (TM).