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@Frazzled

Yeah I get that - but what my gripe is is that its his core game sales he's been discarded for - surely any combination of sales which lifts you to your sales target is a good thing?

Polonius wrote:You know what, you're right. I'm going to pencil "KK being mean to Shining Spears" into Polonius's Big List of Atrocities right above Apartheid and right below Phil Hartman's murder.

Or should it be higher?

No thats about right.


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liam0404 wrote:@Frazzled

Yeah I get that - but what my gripe is is that its his core game sales he's been discarded for - surely any combination of sales which lifts you to your sales target is a good thing?

NO.

The only thing that matters is what he's incentivized for.

liam0404 wrote:@Frazzled

Yeah I get that - but what my gripe is is that its his core game sales he's been discarded for - surely any combination of sales which lifts you to your sales target is a good thing?

If he is not hitting his 'core game' sales then he isn't hitting his target. Any combination doesn't come into it. Its what GW wanted that matters.

As an example I was binned by an employer when I failed to reach my new business target by 25%, regardless of the fact that sales from my existing business was running above my overall sales target for the year. I had failed in a Key aspect of my KPIs.
If my 'core' sales had failed by this margin though I would have probably jumped off a bridge due to embarassment.

Someone fix the title! "Are Games Workshops Crazy?" or "Is Games Workshop Crazy?"

Sorry, been bothering me

I have nothing else to add in except maybe once or twice they do mention their starter sets when I'm at a store

Title changed

liam0404 wrote:Title changed

Thank you!

When I worked for GW 1990 to 1993 (Reading) the policy was simple.....keep the core gaming community in the store for the shortest period of time possible......gaming tables were only permitted for starter games.....games night on a Thursday was the only night for the core gamer.......

It was simply set-up to introduce new blood and sell starter sets

I remember one time when I was sat down at the painting table talking to a couple of core gamers and the Area Manager turned up and I got a rollicking for engaging core gamers in 40k banter......

These were Dark Days indeed

liam0404 wrote:@Frazzled

Yeah I get that - but what my gripe is is that its his core game sales he's been discarded for - surely any combination of sales which lifts you to your sales target is a good thing?

In a word. NO.

The other sales are easier to get. New product out that week being the low hanging fruit. Those sales occur because someone did the work to make the core sales. Core game sales take the most time, and you have to work with new people, vs. selling your buddy some dark eldar.

And it doesn't take an explanation even: The job requirement is X. Doing Y does not let you keep your job. This applies to most businesses.

On the 'own and paint 3 armies' part of it: Possibly they see that as a way to weed out people that don't want the job bad enough, and are resistant to learning other systems. Again, selling 40k is easy. Selling "the other two systems I don't give a gak about" is a little tougher.

My stores are half comic books/GN and half games. I used to hire 'good workers' and try to train them. Over 20 years I've found that everyone is "Willing to learn". They lie. They don't read comics and don't want to. They don't play warhammer and don't want to. When they say they read comics and I quiz them, they admit to watching cartoons and movies. Games means Halo and Warcraft. If I hire someone new, they better already read comics weekly or they play a lot of games, including warhammer.

liam0404 wrote:This makes absolutely no sense to me - you're NEVER going to sell these sets to regulars who already have their own armies, and to make it worse, around 60-70% of your customers are your regulars!

I'm not sure why you have this perspective. GWS has been unambiguous in their actions (if never in statement) that their business model is dedicated to a rapid churn of customers. So not only is is not surprising he couldn't move core box units to regulars, that's not really corporate's expectation either - he's supposed to be hooking new customers, milking them of $250 USD or the equivalent in quid/pounds/whatever the hell brits use for money, and then move on to the next customer. I don't believe they have ever done anything indicating otherwise, or that long term customers are of any interest to them.

I'm not endorsing this model. Nor am I endorsing the sacking of a person whom I don't even know, but I would like to point out that you should be able to move at least some AOBR boxes even to regulars as Space Marines are far and away the most popular faction, and it's a value strictly for either faction and ebaying the rest.

Daggermaw wrote:

And if a GW employee doesn't want to paint models at home, I can't imagine they'd be employed long. It's a job where you sell toy soldiers and teach people to play and paint. If you don't own your own army, getting one painted up isn't that much of a chore for someone at a GW store. Cheaper models than I get wholesale, some time to paint on the job, and they should know how to paint and model, or they aren't worth employing.

You're right, painting you're own army isn't that big of a deal when you're doing it for yourself. But when you have to assemble an army for a game you couldn't give a gak about?

I only bring this up as I interviewed and was offered a job at GW a few years ago and ended up not accepting because i was told that i would be expected to buy, build and paint an army for game systems I don't play and have zero desire to play, ie. fantasy and LotR.

You didn't think that not playing two of the three core games was a problem?

I've worked in sales, and I know people who work at GW - GW is MUCH more stringent and unforgiving than any other sales job I have worked.

Which is to be expected - they're basically fighting a losing battle in an era filled with people who have iPhones as portable gaming devices, and big business family friendly video game consoles (ie Kinect, Move, Wii). I mean, they're in the process of dumping the Academy at the present moment because they can't even afford to hire more than one person at most stores - that's bad.

I foresee the stores just closing down in favor of 100% internet shipment/warehousing, which frees up more cash for advertising. A great deal of GW stores I see or hear about are constantly having financial issues.

Is Gw crazy?

Their staff certainly look like they are......

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=13700025a

I used to work as a cashier in Ladbrokes (a betting shop) and we got monthly sales targets... the world makes no sense

bagley wrote:I used to work as a cashier in Ladbrokes (a betting shop) and we got monthly sales targets... the world makes no sense

Did you have some deal of the day to push? Like how much mystery time would be played at Old Trafford? how many bookable offenses Wenger wouldn't see?

The mind does boggle.

I see how the GW shops could be better risk vs reward situations for them, however I think that the FLGS allows them to hold less risk upon themselves. And interwebs is definatly win-win to the upmost.

Crazy like a fox...

Seriously, having had those kinds of jobs before hand, I gotta say, retail is a pretty god-awful place to be. Between Sears and the horrible little mom-and-pop computer shop that somehow survived the 90s, I saw my fair share of brainwashing, quotas (secret or otherwise), doublespeak, and at times outright blatant lies from management. I can't really blame them though, in this day and age, you gotta do whatever you can to not go under while in the pitch black shadow of the likes of Wal-Mart.

Your friend would do well to take some advice, and either get a big-boy job, or snag something in food service. My first job was making pizzas. It's was the least stressful one out of all of the minimum wage jobs I had, and the waitresses were hot. Landing something other than McDonalds means you usually don't smell too much like fries either.

mikhaila wrote:

liam0404 wrote:@Frazzled

Yeah I get that - but what my gripe is is that its his core game sales he's been discarded for - surely any combination of sales which lifts you to your sales target is a good thing?

In a word. NO.

The other sales are easier to get. New product out that week being the low hanging fruit. Those sales occur because someone did the work to make the core sales. Core game sales take the most time, and you have to work with new people, vs. selling your buddy some dark eldar.

And it doesn't take an explanation even: The job requirement is X. Doing Y does not let you keep your job. This applies to most businesses.

On the 'own and paint 3 armies' part of it: Possibly they see that as a way to weed out people that don't want the job bad enough, and are resistant to learning other systems. Again, selling 40k is easy. Selling "the other two systems I don't give a gak about" is a little tougher.

My stores are half comic books/GN and half games. I used to hire 'good workers' and try to train them. Over 20 years I've found that everyone is "Willing to learn". They lie. They don't read comics and don't want to. They don't play warhammer and don't want to. When they say they read comics and I quiz them, they admit to watching cartoons and movies. Games means Halo and Warcraft. If I hire someone new, they better already read comics weekly or they play a lot of games, including warhammer.

Ha. I wish I lived closer to you....I'd be your perfect employee. Well, cept I refuse to play Snit's Revenge....silly game.


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This is how former GW CEO Ernie Baker and some other GW execs once explained it to me....

A new gamer is worth at least 2000 dollars a year to a store.
A 2nd year gamer is worth 1000 dollars.
A 3rd year gamer is worth 500.
A 4th year gamer is worth 250...

and so on.

Thus, the emphasis on recruiting new gamers over retaining old ones. I worked Direct, which sold bitz, limited edition items and deals etc. While we had record years, our sales were probably only about 2-3% and not worth the cost, which is why Bitz went away.

When I worked retail, the emphasis on training was always on doing great demo games, and selling core sets.

Unlike most people here, I had a great time in retail and when I moved up in the company, I worked with alot of great people.

Hitting KPI's is part of the job description, and to be honest, decent Intro Games, and not missing opportunities means they can be hit. Takes a little effort, but trust me, they are not your usual retail targets.

Me, I failed because despite walloping KPI's in all the stores I was in, I just wasn't that good at planning for the future.

So now, I works in Insurance!

Squig_herder wrote:No, I think his implication that the models have been on the shelf since 2002 make his point clear about the SS and I disagree.

I know of two people locally to me that have bought Aun va within the past 2 weeks, just to paint and have some fun fluff battles with. Just because he is considered one of the worst models to play doesn't mean only noobs will buy him. They like a challenge and have painted most of their things.

He is just painting everyone with the same brush.

I bought Aun'Va for a special project and I'm hardly a n00b.

liam0404 wrote:This isn't a rant about their sales strategy - but about their employment rules.

One of my very good friends was in my local store doing his managers training, and recently he was let go at the end of his probationary period.

The reason? Apprantly not selling enough Core Games (i.e. island of blood, assault on black reach)

This makes absolutely no sense to me - you're NEVER going to sell these sets to regulars who already have their own armies, and to make it worse, around 60-70% of your customers are your regulars! So what I'd like some opinions on, is - should this be a viable target for the employees of GW?

I think it's crazy, YMMV.

Ye this is normal I work in the automotive industry and the delership where I work had a salesman laid off because he wasn't selling enough. even I live under the fear of targets in the current economic climate, also if you are still in the probationary period a company can just let you go no nedd for severance pay or notice etc

You didn't think that not playing two of the three core games was a problem?

Not when i'm expected to be a salesman and not a hobby liason. Just because I don't play fantasy doesn't mean i can't read the rules and know how to sell it.

And not playing two of the three core games wasn't an problem for GW. I was told i would just have to start playing them, and paying for them from my own money. Its at that point i said no thank you.

So.. I have a phone interview for the trainee manager thing GW do tomorrow...

I probably shouldn't have came into this topic. Oh well!

Just tell them you will sell lots of starter boxes and you'll be fine

Bean counters and their targets make the world so much a happier place.

Let me just say I deeply regret that my comments seemed to imply that only a n00b would buy Shining Spears.

It was a hasty remark brought about by a long day at work and one too many Yoo-Hoos.

I should have said that only a n00b or a loser would ever buy Shining Spears.

I hope this goes some way to repair the damage I caused.

Daggermaw wrote:

You didn't think that not playing two of the three core games was a problem?

Not when i'm expected to be a salesman and not a hobby liason. Just because I don't play fantasy doesn't mean i can't read the rules and know how to sell it.

And not playing two of the three core games wasn't an problem for GW. I was told i would just have to start playing them, and paying for them from my own money. Its at that point i said no thank you.

Heh you get almost all you need for free.

My question is how GW store are surviving in this market, when the job market is going to hell? If the goal for GW store is to target new bloods, they are going to see that they are focusing their reasources on the wrong market area.

deejaybainbridge wrote:Yet Boot's still ask me if i want a Boots card everytime i top up on toiletries.

Huh?

It's not just in retail sales that people get canned for not hitting their quota. I've had quite a few of my tattoo artist friends tell me horror stories of going to work in a new shop only to be informed that if they don't hit a total of $XXXX.XX every week that they will be fired. During the busy times of the year, it's not that difficult to attract those numbers, but when you're in the off season (and everywhere has one) it can be a nightmare! Might not be right, fair or just, but I'd like to know where you can find any of that in this day & age!

Don't get me wrong, I used to work in clinton cards (greetings card retailer) and the pressure of the add-On sale was immense. But we were never told we had to sell X amount of item A. That's what I Can't get my mind around.