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Kid_Kyoto wrote:Let me just say I deeply regret that my comments seemed to imply that only a n00b would buy Shining Spears.

It was a hasty remark brought about by a long day at work and one too many Yoo-Hoos.

I should have said that only a n00b or a loser would ever buy Shining Spears.

I hope this goes some way to repair the damage I caused.

I see what you did there, and I approve of it.

liam0404 wrote:@Frazzled

Yeah I get that - but what my gripe is is that its his core game sales he's been discarded for - surely any combination of sales which lifts you to your sales target is a good thing?

Nah, not every sale is equal. As people have pointed out when you sell a core box set you're committing a guy to spending $500 or more on other stuff over the year. A lot of the skill in managing a retail business is looking past total sales figures, which can include a lot of stuff that the salesman really can't control, and looking at stuff he can influence, especially stuff that will lead to other sales.

Magnalon wrote:I foresee the stores just closing down in favor of 100% internet shipment/warehousing, which frees up more cash for advertising. A great deal of GW stores I see or hear about are constantly having financial issues.

I'm not so sure. One of GW's key strengths is the perception those mainstream stores give. Parents are a lot more likely to buy into something for their kid when it's run out of a store on mainstreet.

I can certainly see a reduction in the total number of stores, if they determine specific store running costs aren't justified by local sales levels. As I understand that's already going on.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Bean counters and their targets make the world so much a happier place.

Cheers! I like to think we make a difference.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I hope this goes some way to repair the damage I caused.

I was being sarcastic you fool!

Seriously, this obsession with targets is a problem.
Over the previous decade it has become almost universal. Targets seem to be de rigour for for all areas of work and often inappropriate.

The Ladbrokes example above is wonderful. How do they implement that and how is it compatible with their "Gambling Aware" policy?

We have seen the detrimental effects of targets in all areas of the Public Sector in the UK.
I am not saying there is no use for targets and understand they have a positive purpose in retail. But the use of targets need to be selective.

I would assume that most prospective GW employees don't want to sell or think that because people are interested in the product they will get easy sales.

You enjoy the hobby and think working for GW will be fun.

I wonder, do GW incentivise their staff for hitting targets, other than ensuring that the job isi safe for another month.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I should have said that only a n00b or a loser would ever buy Shining Spears.

Why I would like to thankyou for setting such a great example for other posters to feel free to troll/slander other peoples' purchases.

So from the post above, are you classing me as a loser? I would love to have a publicly posted response.

Joined in 2008 and you still don't get Kyoto's style of humour.

I'll show you! You just wait, 5th eldar codex will make shining spears into gods!

If you paint your spears with shining gold, will that make you a noob since you will have shining spears, even if you didn't buy shining spears?

Squig_herder wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I should have said that only a n00b or a loser would ever buy Shining Spears.

Why I would like to thankyou for setting such a great example for other posters to feel free to troll/slander other peoples' purchases.

So from the post above, are you classing me as a loser? I would love to have a publicly posted response.

It would appear so.
Shining spears... lets just say there are better things to buy with the money and leave it at that, although they are interesting models they seem more like a display piece.

n0t_u wrote:


It would appear so.
Shining spears... lets just say there are better things to buy with the money and leave it at that, although they are interesting models they seem more like a display piece.

*Insert Darth Vader "NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" picture*

Although it does explain why I seem to just use my shining spears more as Jetbikes and not as Spears. All GW need to is allow Aspect Warriors to take Warlocks. A Warlock on Jetbike with Enhance would do wonders for Shining Spears against MHQ

Thread title change:

Are people who buy Shining Spears Crazy?

Aeon wrote:GW Managers (and other sales staff) have core box sets as there main KPI's

If you dont meet the KPI in any job then you wont stick around for long; maybe tough buts that's business for you...

That's well and good if you are failing to turn customer's through the door into sales, however if the customer's aren't coming through the door it's a bit hard to reach the KPI. Which isn't the redshirts fault.

Wolfstan wrote:

Aeon wrote:GW Managers (and other sales staff) have core box sets as there main KPI's

If you dont meet the KPI in any job then you wont stick around for long; maybe tough buts that's business for you...

That's well and good if you are failing to turn customer's through the door into sales, however if the customer's aren't coming through the door it's a bit hard to reach the KPI. Which isn't the redshirts fault.

If the KPIS are truly FUBAR its up to employees to speak to store managers, who speak to area managers who speak to Sales directors. if HO wont listen the best thing to do is bug out before you get kicked out.

Besides, it would be up to the shop staff to get more out of every customer that comes through the door, (if said staff are motivated by attaining sales).

Ouze wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Let me just say I deeply regret that my comments seemed to imply that only a n00b would buy Shining Spears.

It was a hasty remark brought about by a long day at work and one too many Yoo-Hoos.

I should have said that only a n00b or a loser would ever buy Shining Spears.

I hope this goes some way to repair the damage I caused.

I see what you did there, and I approve of it.

I see your approval, and second it.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Joined in 2008 and you still don't get Kyoto's style of humour.

The internet is serious business, remember?

Ketara wrote:The internet is serious business, remember?

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:I was being sarcastic you fool!

I had no idea!

Seriously, this obsession with targets is a problem.
Over the previous decade it has become almost universal. Targets seem to be de rigour for for all areas of work and often inappropriate.

It's always a case of execution, and there's no denying targets can set undesired incentives as well as desired ones. But instances of poor execution don't stop KPIs being a useful tool for management. It's also important to remember not all targets are about meeting a KPI or getting fired, many are tied to remuneration schemes and sometimes not even things that strong.

We have seen the detrimental effects of targets in all areas of the Public Sector in the UK.

Speaking as a guy in government, I've found when complained about targets are at least half the time unpopular because they're actually directing staff towards doing what they were put there to do.

Again the simple answer is just that retail sucks and you're employed to be exploited at minimum wage :p

But working retail is better than paying money for shining spears

As a side note, what is the discount for GW employees?

I do agree with one of the posters earlier (Mecha-Hitler) that having to pay for three of your own armies sucks.

If the discount is sucky (10%), that's a Pyramid Scheme, son!

While my sympathy goes out to the OP's friend, as I was canned from my first job for the same thing, I have to agree with most of the other posters in saying that GW is far from crazy. Just look at what happened to dungeons and dragons...creative ideas and good inventions mean diddly squat next to profit. It leaves a bad taste in the mouths of those of us who remember the good old days, but the sad truth is that GW can either be a "nice" company that only cares about making players/employees happy, and quickly go out of business, or it can be a "smart" company and scrape by.

Capitalism baby, ya gotta love it.

The stock market shows that the most successful companies are those which balance the needs of all stakeholders including staff.

GW have two things going for them.

One. They only need to grub as much money as possible during the first year or two until Little Johnny gets bored or disillusioned with GW games. He won't be there in year three, so there's not point maintaining a long term relationship.

Two. Ditto as regards the majority of the staff.

mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:My question is how GW store are surviving in this market, when the job market is going to hell? If the goal for GW store is to target new bloods, they are going to see that they are focusing their reasources on the wrong market area.

Actually, it's more important to keep new blood coming in. That's your bread and butter, and more importantly, your expansion potential. This is true of *all* companies, not just GW. Why else would you advertise anything at all ever?

There was a mention somewhere up the thread of new blood being a less controlable thing. Well, in my experience, yes and no. Let's use GW as an example.

I get one kid into the Store, and run intro activity. Kid paints his first marine under my tutelage, then I run him through a kick arse intro game, where his mighty Space Marine Dreadnought smashes the Ork Warboss into the dirt, carrying the day for the badly mauled Space Marines. Having also pitched this to his parents (always the trick) they walk out with Assault on Black Reach, a Hobby Starter Set, Chaos Black Spray, and the latest White Dwarf. Oh, and a Beginner's Academy Card, plus invites for his friends to come down.

See what I did there? You get your new bloods to bring their friends down, and you pitch it to the parents as a wholesome, interactive, sociable hobby which doesn't involve sitting in front of a Laptop or Telly for hours at a time. Kid enthuses his friends (we've all been there I'm sure. Well, I say all...most is possibly more accurate) and the stamp of Parental Approval goes a long, long way.

And yes, this does work. Extremely well. That's how you keep new blood coming in. Snowball theory.

Mr. Mystery just nailed it.

In fact I've seen GW employees pitch Tau because the child liked anime, and said they were one of the best armies in the game.

The employee knew darn well what he was doing. He was straight lying, and making a sale. I don't think he cares if the kid comes back with his $500 worth of Tau and says "they suck" - all sales are final. NEXT!

Yeah not so much. You sell THE Hobby, not YOUR Hobby. It's getting this wrong that many complaints stem from.

If the kid likes Anime, the Tau to a degree do suit that visual style. I daresay the kid doesn't give much of a hoot whether the army is truly killer or not, he likes the models, and wants to play the game. Tau are indeed one of the harder armies to wield successfully, and this isn't something you should gloss over. Make clear that being a tactical challenge is not a bad thing though. Dealing with the 'what's the best team' question is an artform to itself.

Magnalon wrote:Mr. Mystery just nailed it.

In fact I've seen GW employees pitch Tau because the child liked anime, and said they were one of the best armies in the game.

The employee knew darn well what he was doing. He was straight lying, and making a sale. I don't think he cares if the kid comes back with his $500 worth of Tau and says "they suck" - all sales are final. NEXT!

In the hands of kids all armies are going to suck.

A GW hobby centre is not the hub of the current meta, Shining Spears will make regular starring appearances.

The staff probably get carried away, they say everything is the best. One try hard in my local store was, golly gosh, collecting the same armies as I was, that I strung him along over a few weeks with him never really sure if he has spoken to me or not helped. besides, GW exist to sell everything they can. If I had a customer interested in anime, and battle suits, and I was working for GW or any other FLGS I would be bigging up Tau till I was blue in the face.

Tau are awesome, so are Orks, Witchhunters, Daemon Hunters, Ass hunters, Eldar, marines (in all their flavours), Necrons.....

Some might, but as I mentioned above, honesty is the best policy.

Indeed, a key thing when working for GW (and part of your job) is tell the customer what they need, sell them what they want. So kid picks up Shining Spears, I engage him in conversation about them. Obvious openers like 'looking to add a little speed to your Eldar' or 'is that your next unit then?'. Take off from there. Find out what he likes about them, what he has in his army. Advise from there. If he still wants Spears, sell them to him. If not, rinse and repeat. Really helps if the parents are there too!

Hell, I used to try and put kids off buy big metal kits in favour of plastic, even if it meant a smaller sale. Is all about their Hobby Gratification. That, and I if ever have to point together another sodding Hive Tyrant that's not mine....I will kill again.

Mr Mystery wrote:'looking to add a little speed to your Eldar, eh? nudge nudge, wink, wink, say no more.'

I agree about the new blood idea. Mr Mystery hit upon the fact that if you sell the AoBR or IoB to a new player, you sell it along with the hobby starter set, spray paint, the codex of the army in the box the kid likes and, in the case of HE or SM another box of spearmen or tac. marines to make the army legal. That's a lot of money, and it's been done to most of us. We may now buy our stuff from another games company or whatever but we were big contributors once upon a time.

Another thing Mr Mystery said is that he'll invite along his friends, this is very likely to happen, the kid'll want people hoe knows to play the game with, you don't get many new players walking into the store for a pick up game. I also remember a while back GW had this offer in which, if you introduced a friend to the hobby, then you got a £10 or something voucher for each of you, further adding to the pull of potential new prof... I mean players.

Maledictus wrote:While my sympathy goes out to the OP's friend, as I was canned from my first job for the same thing, I have to agree with most of the other posters in saying that GW is far from crazy. Just look at what happened to dungeons and dragons...creative ideas and good inventions mean diddly squat next to profit. It leaves a bad taste in the mouths of those of us who remember the good old days, but the sad truth is that GW can either be a "nice" company that only cares about making players/employees happy, and quickly go out of business, or it can be a "smart" company and scrape by.

Capitalism baby, ya gotta love it.

As I am exploring in a research thread in the DCM forum GW are certainly not scraping by I have been analysing their financial statements for 2009 and 2010 and they are making a big (sorry I mean BIG) profit.

Not even the extra models. The contents of a starter box and HSS are enough to show off the whole gamut of the Hobby. From there on in, you start to get a feel of what you really like in the wider Hobby, and choose your next step from there.

Ed_Bodger wrote:

Maledictus wrote:While my sympathy goes out to the OP's friend, as I was canned from my first job for the same thing, I have to agree with most of the other posters in saying that GW is far from crazy. Just look at what happened to dungeons and dragons...creative ideas and good inventions mean diddly squat next to profit. It leaves a bad taste in the mouths of those of us who remember the good old days, but the sad truth is that GW can either be a "nice" company that only cares about making players/employees happy, and quickly go out of business, or it can be a "smart" company and scrape by.

Capitalism baby, ya gotta love it.

As I am exploring in a research thread in the DCM forum GW are certainly not scraping by I have been analysing their financial statements for 2009 and 2010 and they are making a big (sorry I mean BIG) profit.

It's funny, because people posted GW's financial statements and quite a few people came to the opposite conclusion than you, what with once you realize the vast majority of that "big" profit is going into supporting their storefronts they're not really making a "big profit".