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Open for general discussion on Meganobz, but mostly for this one question:

If Mega Armour was just a wargear choice for Nobz, instead of a different unit, how would that change your army list, and what different tactics would you use?

(40 pts, ala carte [can be individual models in a unit, not just the whole unit], replaces slugga and choppa).

The movement debuff means that nobody would take it. There are more and better (cheaper) wargear options for customizing Nobz.

I personally like 3-MANz units. You can individualize them for 135 pts for the unit, it's 6 wounds, and 12 PK attacks on the charge is going to crush anything but a dedicated assault unit.

Based on your wording OP, I'd have fun with my new shiny unit of Meganob Bikers

Joking aside, I would run the minimal-strength Meganob units as normal, with the added Bosspole to boot. Being able to take Ammo Runts for the Kombi-Rokkits would also be quite handy.

I guess the ability to include a painboy would really make it a tough unit to take down.

I'd probably still use them he same as I do, much like the others, as a 3-man squad (in a trukk), otherwise they get too damn expensive.

The biggest problem with mega nobs is the real world cost. Those minis are damn expensive!!!

sourclams wrote:The movement debuff means that nobody would take it. There are more and better (cheaper) wargear options for customizing Nobz.

I personally like 3-MANz units. You can individualize them for 135 pts for the unit, it's 6 wounds, and 12 PK attacks on the charge is going to crush anything but a dedicated assault unit.

QFT.

Cheapest way to get more than 3 BWs, too. Toss a boarding plank and Deff Rolla on their and you have yourself a party.

sourclams wrote:The movement debuff means that nobody would take it. There are more and better (cheaper) wargear options for customizing Nobz.

Unless you run a unit of Nobz with Ghaz. In which case, they suddenly became a lot more useful. Buy one or two to help diversify wargear and add some extra armour to the unit, were that the case.

Anvildude wrote:Open for general discussion on Meganobz, but mostly for this one question:

If Mega Armour was just a wargear choice for Nobz, instead of a different unit, how would that change your army list, and what different tactics would you use?

(40 pts, ala carte [can be individual models in a unit, not just the whole unit], replaces slugga and choppa).

I don't mind exchanging the shoota for a storm shield

MagicJuggler wrote:Based on your wording OP, I'd have fun with my new shiny unit of Meganob Bikers

Joking aside, I would run the minimal-strength Meganob units as normal, with the added Bosspole to boot. Being able to take Ammo Runts for the Kombi-Rokkits would also be quite handy.

Hah! Yeah, I guess I missed that part, didn't I? Don't really know if that'd be allowable or if it'd break the game, though. Maybe Slow and Purposeful Bikes? roll 2d6 and add them for distance travelled?



In light of some of the comments though (the general consensus seems to be that the allocation isn't a big draw, and that it's mostly the sundry wargear that's attractive) what about, instead of an ala carte thing, the Mega Armor was like the Bikes, in that the whole squad takes it or not? (without allowing the bikes this time) in essense giving the Manz access to all the wargear options. Is that the more attractive package?

Well, based on your wording, it seems that this system would make MANZ 60 pts each; 20 for the Nob + 40 for the armor. That most certainly isn't worth it. 60 points for what's essentially a 2-wound Terminator, with no Invul save, that can't shoot? No thanks.

Now, if they were 40 points with all the wargear options, "deathstar" would take on a whole new meaning. 10 diversified MANZ with cybork bodies and a Waagh banner, led by Ghazghkull. The very thought of that unit warms the cockles of my heart!

As they are, I really like MANZ. 4 or 5 MANZ and a Megaboss in a BW have truly ludicrous durability; with three wound groups in the MANZ, pus the boss to take S8-9 hits with an invul save, they're basically impossible to kill before they get into charge range, and are more than capable of eating almost anything in CC. In particular, while regular Nobz are the champion at hacking through basic troops and MEQs, MANZ beat them out when it comes to murdering elite units. And since that's what I want my Warboss to be doing, it works out perfectly.

BeRzErKeR wrote:Well, based on your wording, it seems that this system would make MANZ 60 pts each; 20 for the Nob + 40 for the armor. That most certainly isn't worth it. 60 points for what's essentially a 2-wound Terminator, with no Invul save, that can't shoot? No thanks.

Now, if they were 40 points with all the wargear options, "deathstar" would take on a whole new meaning. 10 diversified MANZ with cybork bodies and a Waagh banner, led by Ghazghkull. The very thought of that unit warms the cockles of my heart!

As they are, I really like MANZ. 4 or 5 MANZ and a Megaboss in a BW have truly ludicrous durability; with three wound groups in the MANZ, pus the boss to take S8-9 hits with an invul save, they're basically impossible to kill before they get into charge range, and are more than capable of eating almost anything in CC. In particular, while regular Nobz are the champion at hacking through basic troops and MEQs, MANZ beat them out when it comes to murdering elite units. And since that's what I want my Warboss to be doing, it works out perfectly.

I'd throw two Meganobz in a unit of nobz for 60 points. With FNP from a painboy for once, they would really help with the first few wounds against small arms. It wouldn't be worth it to take a full unit with mega armour, but to be fair, it isn't now. But it would make them a hell of a lot more useful.

Anvildude wrote:

MagicJuggler wrote:Based on your wording OP, I'd have fun with my new shiny unit of Meganob Bikers

Joking aside, I would run the minimal-strength Meganob units as normal, with the added Bosspole to boot. Being able to take Ammo Runts for the Kombi-Rokkits would also be quite handy.

Hah! Yeah, I guess I missed that part, didn't I? Don't really know if that'd be allowable or if it'd break the game, though. Maybe Slow and Purposeful Bikes? roll 2d6 and add them for distance travelled?



In light of some of the comments though (the general consensus seems to be that the allocation isn't a big draw, and that it's mostly the sundry wargear that's attractive) what about, instead of an ala carte thing, the Mega Armor was like the Bikes, in that the whole squad takes it or not? (without allowing the bikes this time) in essense giving the Manz access to all the wargear options. Is that the more attractive package?

Slow and Purposeful bikes would treat all area terrain like difficult terrain, so they would get full movement, but everything would be dangerous terrain. The end result would be a 1/6 chance of taking a wound every time they move or assault ie mega armor nobz falling off their bikes.

schadenfreude wrote:

Anvildude wrote:

MagicJuggler wrote:Based on your wording OP, I'd have fun with my new shiny unit of Meganob Bikers

Joking aside, I would run the minimal-strength Meganob units as normal, with the added Bosspole to boot. Being able to take Ammo Runts for the Kombi-Rokkits would also be quite handy.

Hah! Yeah, I guess I missed that part, didn't I? Don't really know if that'd be allowable or if it'd break the game, though. Maybe Slow and Purposeful Bikes? roll 2d6 and add them for distance travelled?



In light of some of the comments though (the general consensus seems to be that the allocation isn't a big draw, and that it's mostly the sundry wargear that's attractive) what about, instead of an ala carte thing, the Mega Armor was like the Bikes, in that the whole squad takes it or not? (without allowing the bikes this time) in essense giving the Manz access to all the wargear options. Is that the more attractive package?

Slow and Purposeful bikes would treat all area terrain like difficult terrain, so they would get full movement, but everything would be dangerous terrain. The end result would be a 1/6 chance of taking a wound every time they move or assault ie mega armor nobz falling off their bikes.

And it would be AWESOME

Biker Meganobz would need to be modelled so as to be removable -- maybe have a Ramshackle rule for the Megabikez, so he might trundle into an enemy unit before falling off, if he failed dangerous terrain? It would indeed be awesome. I could definitely see that working for a fun game.

Honestly, the way I see mega armoured biker nobz is with the armour built into the bike (or the bike built into the armour... who knows?).

Gotta agree with Fafnir on that one. But Ill add they wouldnt be bikes, but more like quads or half tracks, as a 2 wheeled vehicle just wouldnt hold up all the weight to get a 2+ save. Why are we discussing this?


OT I dont think that would really change to many lists TBH. The thing that I think would, would be if FlashGits were a Nobz upgrade instead of a heavy. If that were to happen then I think lists would start changing.

Another rule for the MANZ on bikes....give them something like ramshackle. Say scatter 2d6", small blast template str 6 ap - to represent a MANZ falling off his bike and into something. Would be really funny and potentally useful.

Hmmm that really could be fun. Sometimes minor rule changes lead to fun games. We, for example, let any vehicle with an armor value ram things. So yes, the occasional suicide landspeeder shows up and has been known to punch holes through big tanks, its great fun.

Fafnir wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Anvildude wrote:

MagicJuggler wrote:Based on your wording OP, I'd have fun with my new shiny unit of Meganob Bikers

Joking aside, I would run the minimal-strength Meganob units as normal, with the added Bosspole to boot. Being able to take Ammo Runts for the Kombi-Rokkits would also be quite handy.

Hah! Yeah, I guess I missed that part, didn't I? Don't really know if that'd be allowable or if it'd break the game, though. Maybe Slow and Purposeful Bikes? roll 2d6 and add them for distance travelled?



In light of some of the comments though (the general consensus seems to be that the allocation isn't a big draw, and that it's mostly the sundry wargear that's attractive) what about, instead of an ala carte thing, the Mega Armor was like the Bikes, in that the whole squad takes it or not? (without allowing the bikes this time) in essense giving the Manz access to all the wargear options. Is that the more attractive package?

Slow and Purposeful bikes would treat all area terrain like difficult terrain, so they would get full movement, but everything would be dangerous terrain. The end result would be a 1/6 chance of taking a wound every time they move or assault ie mega armor nobz falling off their bikes.

And it would be AWESOME

QFT

KingCracker wrote:Gotta agree with Fafnir on that one. But Ill add they wouldnt be bikes, but more like quads or half tracks, as a 2 wheeled vehicle just wouldnt hold up all the weight to get a 2+ save. Why are we discussing this?


OT I dont think that would really change to many lists TBH. The thing that I think would, would be if FlashGits were a Nobz upgrade instead of a heavy. If that were to happen then I think lists would start changing.

Flash Git Nob Bikers would be legitimately useful though. S6 Assault 4 Dakkaguns would mean the unit would be capable of Eldar-like S6 shooting on a smaller scale, though compensated for by melée capability.

I didnt think of that one, I just think Gits should be a footsloggin with option of transport for the nobs. But on bikes that would be insane! move 12 inches, and fire 24 inches, suddenly they are a 36 inch threat. Be a bit pricey but totally worth it then

See, this is the sort of thing I was thinkin' about when I wrote up my Ork la carte rules a bit ago (or was it ala Ork?) I mean, even things like being able to take a Flash Gitz Nob in a Loota squad'd be enough to change a little of the game, I think.

Or a Loota in Mega Armour. That'd be interesting. 2+ save with Blasta and the fixin's'd be useful, and since Gitz'rn't really Assaulty, they'd not loose too much from SnP.

My problem with what you wrote, was that made no sense. Why would you get a FlashGit upgrade in a loota mob? They arnt the same things at all, they arnt even from the same clans fluff wise. Not to mention that doesnt make sense in a game play stance as well. You cant argue that throwing mega armor on anything in the codex wouldnt make it super bad ass, thats a given. The problem is why would said unit get mega armor in the first place? This is going down that path of "well I want to make a SC that has a demolisher cannon on his left arm, a class D titan gun on the other and to fill him out, dual earth shakers on his shoulders XV88 style. Oh yea and his SV is a 2++ that he can reroll

Ah... Fluff complaints. You know, I never actually thought about those...



I guess the reason I was thinking Flash Gitz and Lootaz is that they're the Orks with the Big Gunz- lootaz as the regular Boyz, and Gitz as the Nobz. (oh, and I put Loota instead a' Gitz by aksident, in the second paragraph.)


But really, I'm not talking about actual game changes (unless someone actually wanted to play 'em just for S&G), but more some tactical discussions, like the 36" Biker Gitz, and stuff like that.

The change needed is not for regular Nobz to get Mega Armor as wargear but for Mega Nobz to get Nob wargear as an option.
It is stupid for a 40 point SnP combat oriented model to have a Ld of 7 with no possible upgrade. It would also be nice to be able to buy cybork bodies, painboys and waaagh banners on the squad

I agree with that completely. The problem I see with it all, is that the Nobz is such a massively complex unit. Think about it, they are what the nobs section is, they are mega nobz, AND they are FlashGits. For some reason they broke them into 3 different units, but totally hoed 2 of the 3 units. FlashGits are built weird and are way over costed, if they could actually shoot farther or with better BS then they wouldnt be so bad. Personally shooting only 24 inches OR BS2 for 40-45 pts a pop? Ouch.

Same with Meganobs. They aer nobz, that much is apparent because its in their title but all they get as an upgrade is either a combi skorcha or a combi rokkit (whoppie they are BS2 so that rokkit is pretty much a waste) and thats it. They SHOULD be able to have cybork upgrades and most of the other goodies that nobz get.

So either the Nobz section should be one BIG section or break it into 2 sections. Nobz (which is the same but you can make them Flashgits for either cheaper or the buff I mentioned earlier) and then MegaNobz with much better upgrade options. I still love MANz but its true they get hoed easily, anything with a power weapon and you can kiss them goodbye with no fight at all. Sure they have 2 wounds, but a lowly Sgt can KO a MANz in 1 turn.

What I like about meganobz is twofold.

1) They are a cheaper way of getting PK onto a nob. As an added bonus, you get a shoota and 2+ save.

2) They can be trasported in an open-topped BW. This means that you can move the BW 13", have the nobs hop out 2" and assault. Even if you roll a 1 on the move through cover roll, they still have a 16" range.

Anyone want to see what 10 mega-nobs + graz would do to 5 Twolf calv with 1 Lords? When you include the BW, they might even come out to close to the same price...
Now if those damn models were not so expensive.

They would be a lot better with cybork bodies. I've feilded mega nobz w/grotsnik in the army for the saves, and then when joined with the MANz in a battlewagon they were near invincible.

I mostly built my MANz from nobz with bits from the battlewagon kit glued all over them. They don't look half-bad

I guess you could also buy cheap AoBR termies. Cut off their heads and replace em with ork heads, then modify the weapons to make them more orky. Orkify (is that really a word?!) the armor a bit.

Hell, their lootas, so it would not be inconceivable. Given the number of people talking about DW lists, I would paint them in looted deathwing colors just for the laughs.

labmouse42 wrote:I guess you could also buy cheap AoBR termies. Cut off their heads and replace em with ork heads, then modify the weapons to make them more orky. Orkify (is that really a word?!) the armor a bit.

Hell, their lootas, so it would not be inconceivable. Given the number of people talking about DW lists, I would paint them in looted deathwing colors just for the laughs.

Oh god, DA DW cream colored guys with blue painted over... Reminds me of my old BW. It was a ultra marine tank, painted in red stripes by the speed freaks who stole it, then painted over (badly) blue again by the "current" owners.