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Wow, that little FAQ changed a lot.

This is just off the cuff, there is a lot more to dig out of this book! Assault Marines with real storm shields? Holy crap, so much in there to use now!

Man, this FAQ just turned the meta on its head! This list is ultra scoring light, but who cares!

Black Templars 2000pts
Unit Description Size Cost
HQ
Emperor's Champion Accept Any Challenge 1 150

Troops
Crusader Squad Rhino 6 130
Crusader Squad Rhino 6 130

Elites
Terminators 5 x L.Claw, 2 x T.Hammer, F.Assault 7 301
Land Raider Crusader Smoke 1 268
Terminators 2 x Cyclone, Tank Hunters 5 265
Terminators 2 x A.Cannon, Tank Hunters 5 255 (8 strength 7, rending shots on the move, along with 6 st5? Yes please!)

Fast Attack
Typhoon 1 70
Typhoon 1 70
Typhoon 1 70

Heavy Support
Predator Annihilator L.Cannon Sponsons 1 145
Predator Annihilator L.Cannon Sponsons 1 145

Totals 34 1999


Again, that is just first thoughts. Wow, this is going to change things.

You have to eat your meat and potatos before you go for desert. I'd dump the assault termies and LR and go for more units. BT can still have a 5-man squad with a lascannon in the troop slot. I'd go for a few of those and 2 beefed up troops to travel across the table in rhinos. Let the 2 shooty termies act as mobile devestators and with the other vehicles you'll have a mobile firebase.

I think the best way to get BT to work is to go all shooty and let their natural assault buffs be their counter attack if needed.

That is a good point. This list was just written in excitement at the prospects. Those termie squads will wreck gak.

The super unit is just fun! That many furious assault, preferred enemy termies is gong to destroy things.

SHooty is probably the best bet though.

145 points for a 5 man, l.cannon squad in a Rhino is not bad at all for a scoring unit. Can't move and shoot, but still comparable to other top dexes.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's less assault power and more firepower. Another mobile scoring unit, too. Still plenty choppy up close, though.

Black Templars 2000pts
Unit Description Size Cost
HQ
Emperor's Champion Accept Any Challenge 1 150

Troops
Crusader Squad L.Cannon, Rhino 6 145
Crusader Squad L.Cannon, Rhino 6 145
Crusader Squad Rhino 6 130

Elites
Terminators 2 x Cyclone, Tank Hunters 5 265
Terminators 2 x Cyclone, Tank Hunters 5 265
Terminators 2 x A.Cannon, Tank Hunters 5 255

Fast Attack
Typhoon 1 70
Typhoon 1 70
Typhoon 1 70

Heavy Support
Predator Annihilator L.Cannon Sponsons 1 145
Predator Annihilator L.Cannon Sponsons 1 145
Predator Annihilator L.Cannon Sponsons 1 145

Totals 40 2000



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Although, "kill them all" will be a pain in the ass for a shooty BT army.

That looks better. Wow that is a lot of shooting. The Termies are a good counter to LF spam. You can target 11 different vehicles, 10 of them at 48" away. That's a recipe for success vs. fully mechanized lists. This looks good on paper. I'd be curious to see it in action.

I just wonder if GW will ever reduce the BT termie specials to just 2 per 5-man like everyone else.

They will eventually, but for the time being, let's ride the wave!

I am gong to try this out really soon. This may be my new Adpeticon style list.

The only draw back is that with "kill them all" you aren't super reliable with shooting from infantry.

That is so much str9 going downfield, though! Wow that is a lot of firepower to toss around. Plus they fight well in assault.

It is going to take some experimenting but I feel ultra confident there is a GT winning list or two in that book waiting to be discovered.

If you go dark angels,Try this out. You could have more terminators they count as troops, and there fearless. AND each terminator with cyclone missiles can have a SS/TH ahaha. Not only that but SS/TH are free

Basically keep all the speeders, and preds (or switch to Dev. missles) . And then add in however many terminators you can fit lol. Ah and the character

Good point! Only they don't get preferred enemy, break towards the enemy, tank hunters/furious assault or 2 heavies per 5 termies.

They do get more flexibility though.

I approve, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Yeah, I think there is real potential here. They might have a rough go of it against dual lash chaos, but if they can smoke the lash princes quick (which shouldn't be too hard with all that firepower) they will easily out-shoot chaos and kick their ass in assault, too.

I think you'll be fine. This is a tremendous amount of shooting that is tough to get rid of. Chaos can only Lash 2 units a turn and they have to be in range of the assault cannons to Lash.

Oh man. I just found 2 lists I like.

So I totally did the math wrong.

The shooting list would cost 562 retail... and the assault heavy list would be like... 510.

So, I never thought much of Termies with Assault Cannons, but then again I don;t think Ive ever factored in Tank hunters. 8 S7 shots. LOLOLOLOL. feth you, av 12.

Quick question, I may be missing something, as it is like 2:30 in the morning.

How does the Emperor's Champion cost 150 points? From What I can see in the codex, its 90 for the model, and 50 for the vow. That is 140 unless we are using some weird Ork math or something.

Does the empy's champ count as your one HQ? because if so I'm definitely just using him. (Save HQs for the BA)

Yes the Champ counts as the HQ, it is in the FAQ.

Still looks like he got the thing wrong though, it should be 140 for it, not 150, unless there is 10 points I am missing somewhere.

sparkywtf wrote:Quick question, I may be missing something, as it is like 2:30 in the morning.

How does the Emperor's Champion cost 150 points? From What I can see in the codex, its 90 for the model, and 50 for the vow. That is 140 unless we are using some weird Ork math or something.

Correct 140.
There is no other option than vows.

Points left to spend on the 3rd crusader squad.

List looks good, I just posted my 2000 point list that I was using back in 3rd and havent used in some years.

The only problem I see is with your downfield shooting. Yes, you have a lot of long-range shooting, but remember that the "Kill Them All" rule means all your infantry (Troops and Terminators) have to test at their Ld -1 to shoot long range if there is an enemy unit closer to them. Being that most our Ld is 8, and not having "Rites of Battle" with a Castellan or Marshall means you will be testing at Ld7 to shoot at most long-range opponents. Preds and Speeders take care of this problem as they are vehicles and not subject to that rule.

Man, I am excited about Black Templars changes too. So many things you can do with them The FAQ changed alot of the problems that made BTs tough to put in a coherent list.

Good luck!

Reecius wrote:That is a good point. This list was just written in excitement at the prospects. Those termie squads will wreck gak.

The super unit is just fun! That many furious assault, preferred enemy termies is gong to destroy things.

SHooty is probably the best bet though.

145 points for a 5 man, l.cannon squad in a Rhino is not bad at all for a scoring unit. Can't move and shoot, but still comparable to other top dexes.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's less assault power and more firepower. Another mobile scoring unit, too. Still plenty choppy up close, though.

Black Templars 2000pts
Unit Description Size Cost
HQ
Emperor's Champion Accept Any Challenge 1 150

Troops
Crusader Squad L.Cannon, Rhino 6 145
Crusader Squad L.Cannon, Rhino 6 145
Crusader Squad Rhino 6 130

Elites
Terminators 2 x Cyclone, Tank Hunters 5 265
Terminators 2 x Cyclone, Tank Hunters 5 265
Terminators 2 x A.Cannon, Tank Hunters 5 255

Fast Attack
Typhoon 1 70
Typhoon 1 70
Typhoon 1 70

Heavy Support
Predator Annihilator L.Cannon Sponsons 1 145
Predator Annihilator L.Cannon Sponsons 1 145
Predator Annihilator L.Cannon Sponsons 1 145

Totals 40 2000



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Although, "kill them all" will be a pain in the ass for a shooty BT army.

Looks like just the type of shooty army I was looking forward to compliment my ork army. And I even love the paint scheme!

Just remember, the champion is only 140 points, not 150!

For survivability I like:

Castellan Terminator TH/SS
Shield Brethren Terminators 2x CML Tank Hunter
x2

over rhino's for the crusader squad, predators, and Lascannons to missiles.

The Krak missiles are str 9 now so they pop vehicles better than the lascannons since they are mobile. you also get the power weapons for close combat anti infantry.

Now I absolutely love your list being a former black templar player. My question, however, is what you would do against swarm armies? Granted that an ork or tau player (lol yea I know tau right?) could get like 40 kroot or 40-60 orks for the price of one of your termy squads.

I just had a thought, perhaps switch out one of the lascannon preds for a vindicator?

@thread

Oops! Sorry guys, yeah the, Emp CHamp is only 140! My mistake.

@Hivefleetmonolith
Yeah, a vindie is a good idea as at 155 points (there's the extra 10 points for the champ!) you get a tank that has PotMS so it can always shoot and move 12". That is excellent, and it is great for cracking av14 and for hordes.

Yeah, the dual assault cannon squad is tits-la-rue! 8 strength 7 rending shots (plus 6 str5!) on the move a turn is no joke. That shreds mech and infantry. The Cyclones are great too.

The good thing about this is that even if you fail your "kill them all!" roll on the termies, they are equipped to kill anything they shoot. It can be crappy if you end up wasting their shots on a weak bubble-wrap unit but careful maneuver can mitigate this. Vehicles don't take this test, so that helps a lot. Also, this means tossing a M.Launcher into the crusader squads instead of a l.cannon may be smarter as it allows you to take on infantry well, too.

And yes, the Emp Champ can be your only HQ, which I think is a smart play. The Marshall though would be very useful in this list, too.

here is my thought reecius and this is for making IG cry esp if they have the psyker Battle squad which who doesn't these days.

Emp champion abhor the witch
Marshall PF Storm shield

Land raider crusader EA and Smoke
7 Terminators 2 Lighting claws and 5 Storm shields

Land raider crusader EA and Smoke
7 Terminators 2 Lighting claws and 5 Storm shields

Crusader squad las cannon x 5
Crusader squad las cannon x 5
Crusader squad las cannon x 5
Crusader squad las cannon x 5

Typhoon MM and Missile Launcher

Abhor the witch you have a d6 with a reroll because of crusader seals for extra movement before the game starts. With side turn plus 12 inch movement then disembark and charge you can get a 1st turn assault most likely.

Don't know how it will work in reality but its a thought.

That is a good idea. I thought about that myself as most EVERY top build right now has a psyker.

Rune Priests
PBS
Libby
Meph
Tervigons (well, most of the bug army, really)
Eldar

Really, only DE and Daemons pose much of a risk of this not working, plus the 5+ against psychic powers really helps to mitigate things like lash and the PBS which can crump BTs.

You give up preferred enemy, but for a first turn charge with that many heavy hitters, it could very well be worth it.

I think that has a lot of potential, and certainly want to try it out! I think missing out on maxing the cheap Typhoons and Preds may be a mistake, but you can't fit it all into one list. Plus, if you roll crap for that D6" move it may be a real disappointment.

Again though, definitely worth trying. Like you said, getting in the other player's face that quickly could be game winning on turn 1.

It's to gimmicky. It's an idea but I don't think it works. You get what? and extra 9"'s or so tops? So 9+12+2+2+6=31" Which could result in a 1st turn charge if:

1) you opponent doesn't deploy intelligently
2) your not playing DoW
3) your not playing Spearhead

Doesn't sound like a doable thing for me. While I think Reece's primary list could be tweaked a little harder I don't think this one has much merit. Sorry if that sounds harsh. Could be fun though in Ard Boyz where deployment options are severly limited.

Relying on getting a t1 charge with a couple of extra inches of movement doesnt work, because, unless your opponents a slow, he'll just deploy a couple of inches back.

The list is good, seems like half the front page of dakkas 40k army lists is either DA or BT FAQ-pimped armies. But I cant blame you, I'm gonna be trying out both this week

Its similar to the space wolf infantry missle launcher list, but it hits alot harder. The bad side is there are only 31 models in the list, ld 8 test to shoot will eventually play a factor, and the 2+ save with only 15 models is not much. With that being said the list is solid and the codex is now very viable.

Black Templars 2000pts
Unit Description Size Cost
HQ
Emperor's Champion Accept Any Challenge 1 140

Troops
Crusader Squad 5 80
Crusader Squad 5 80
Land Raider Crusader Smoke 1 268

Elites
Terminators 2 x Cyclone, Tank Hunters 5 265
Terminators 2 x Cyclone, Tank Hunters 5 265
Terminators 2 x A.Cannon, Tank Hunters 5 255

Fast Attack
Typhoon 1 70
Typhoon 1 70
Typhoon 1 70

Heavy Support
Predator Annihilator L.Cannon Sponsons 1 145
Predator Annihilator L.Cannon Sponsons 1 145
Predator Annihilator L.Cannon Sponsons 1 145

Totals 33 1998

I think this is the new jam.

Powerful shooting, mobile scoring unit in a LRC, the cheapy scoring unit goes into reserve and then hides on an objective. This army shoots like the dickens and assaults well, too.

Yes, shooting on Ld8 will be an issue from time to time with the Termies but consider this:

With assault cannons and cyclones, if you shoot at infantry or tanks you will be fine, you can hurt anything you target. How often do tournament lists have any crappy units? Not often. Most good tournament lists are lean and mean with no fat, each unit is important. Sometimes you will have throw away unis that can soak a units shooting (gants) but in most top tier builds there are no wasted points. So, even if you must fire on the closest target, that isn't always going to be game changing. It could potentially really happen at a bad time, but I want to try it out and see. The amount of firepower and assault capability is pretty staggering.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and before anyone says I am troops light, yes, I see that. However, in book standard missions, only 1 in 3 missions requires you to take more than two objectives. Typically, holding one and contesting others is all you need to win. In Annihilation and Capture and Control, this army has no problem. In Seize Ground you simply concentrate on holding one or two and contesting the rest.

It is a trade-off for the tremendous firepower you get.

How do you think the above would hang against Daemons, Nids, Foot Orks, that god awful vehicle spam ork list of MVB's, or foot guard?

Relatively rare builds honestly but I'm curious.

It would scare the poop out of my wolves or mech IG though

I think he is just excited about the shooting potential of Black Templar, but the assault cannon tank hunter has been used for a while now. In my opinion the list to worry about will be a list with cc termies, 8 termies in a raider half ss/th half lc with furious charge killing anything in the game on a charge and enough survivability aswell.