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AlmightyWalrus wrote:Oh, and a better Lysander? Really? 185 points versus 200 points, but you lose 1 wound, the S10 AP1 thunder hammer and bolter drill. How is that better?

I counted it as 180 for the Marshal with TA, TH/SS and the Mantle.

Also to be fair he said "literally as tough as Lysander," not better than. But he's not wrong about nearly being as good, it's a S9 TH with 1 more attack than Lysander has at the trade of a wound. Considering he can't be instant death and has a 3+ invuln both of these guys wont go down anytime soon. I'm not saying a Marshal is better but it's close. For a codex that, 2 weeks ago, could field a 4+ only in close combat this is a huge upgrade. Even looking at a different vow than AAC would have been considered near stupidity.

TakamineG wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Oh, and a better Lysander? Really? 185 points versus 200 points, but you lose 1 wound, the S10 AP1 thunder hammer and bolter drill. How is that better?

I counted it as 180 for the Marshal with TA, TH/SS and the Mantle.

Also to be fair he said "literally as tough as Lysander," not better than. But he's not wrong about nearly being as good, it's a S9 TH with 1 more attack than Lysander has at the trade of a wound. Considering he can't be instant death and has a 3+ invuln both of these guys wont go down anytime soon. I'm not saying a Marshal is better but it's close. For a codex that, 2 weeks ago, could field a 4+ only in close combat this is a huge upgrade. Even looking at a different vow than AAC would have been considered near stupidity.

Orock wrote:It's crazy that you can essentially make a better Lysander character for cheaper points.

Essentially better should mean that, when it all comes around, it'd be better. Not almost. And 3 wounds aren't as durable as 4. Add to that that Lysander always has S10 AP1, which not only IDs anything IDable, but is better vs. vehicles.

Disregarding the semantics, 80+25+30+15+35=185, yes?

The fully loaded eternal warrior TH/SS Marshall is going be seeing a lot of tabletop time. for the points, it can tear through most anything.

My final army I have decided on. I was really tempted to drop the 3rd squad of marines, but 2 troops is just too lite for me.

Emperor's Champion accept any challenge 1 140
Marshal terminator armor, lightning claw, storm shield 145
Sword brethren terminator command 4 seargent 2 x A. cannon tank hunters 212

Troops
Crusader Squad M. launcher Rhino 5 140
Crusader Squad M. launcher Rhino 5 140
Crusader Squad M. launcher Rhino 5 140

Elites
Terminators F.Assault,TH/SS x 5 5 215
Land Raider Crusader, smoke 1 268
Terminators 2 x Cyclone, Tank Hunters 5 265
Terminators 2 x Cyclone, Tank Hunters 5 265

Fast Attack
Typhoon 1 70

Total 2000 even
The idea is for the 3 marine squads in rhinos to take objectives, or if there are none to iron colum up the field,rhinos pulling in front of those forced to foot slog it after getting blown out. The land raider crusader drives up the middle with the thunder hammer termies and the emperors champion. The marshal deep strikes in hopefully popping something important on the landing. Most times he will probably die that round or the next, but its something the enemy has to deal with right away. The cyclone termies will advance popping vehicles or on hordes laying down the blast templates. And the Typhoon is just an awesome model, but im sure I could hide it first turn if I dont go first right away.

The only difference I would make if I could is drop the rhino for the 3rd squad and upgrade the other two to razorbacks. But I think overall this alows them to at least move some, so they wont be completely throw away.

I think that is a solid list. Lash and PBS will be your nemesis though. Be sure to kill those units first and at the exclusion of all else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait, why the claw and shield on the marshall? T.Hammer would be my suggestion.

Reecius wrote:I think that is a solid list. Lash and PBS will be your nemesis though. Be sure to kill those units first and at the exclusion of all else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait, why the claw and shield on the marshall? T.Hammer would be my suggestion.

The claw is to take advantage of I5, as well as reroll to wound, which coupled with reroll to hit from perfered enemy is 3 or 4 power weapon wounds at I5. If I ran into space wolf terminators that could make the difference, and If I need to hit the back of vehicles thats what the power fists are for. Basically the I5 claw helps out on the mirror match, or against other terminators who also mabye have claws in the group.

Another fun thing with 2 assault cannons. You get 8 shots with rending and tankhunters bumps em up to str 7 vs vehicles. Even shooting at a land raider look at your odds. You have 8 shots, on average 6 will hit. Well in averages you should with 6 dice get one of each number. So if you get a rending you bump it up to 13. Then a D3 will minimum glance, and 2/3 of the time pen even av 14 from behind. Those arent too bad of odds. Any other vehicle in the game is virtually guaranteed to be at least penetrated once, if not smoked.

@Orock
Yeah, the L.CLaw isn't bad at all, the only problem I have with it is when you go against tough5+ opponents. I'd rather have that hammer for all around usefulness. YMMV, and I think the claw isn't a bad idea at all.

Yeah, the dual a.cannon, tank hunter combo is amazing. That jumped out at me right away. The thing that makes me laugh is that I didn't see it sooner! Haha, that has been the case with that book for years! I used to run the 5 man termie squad with dual a.cannon and tank hunters all through 4th, but it just sort of fell out of memory. I'm glad it's back though as it means I can use my old squads!

Orock wrote:My final army I have decided on. I was really tempted to drop the 3rd squad of marines, but 2 troops is just too lite for me.

Emperor's Champion accept any challenge 1 140
Marshal terminator armor, lightning claw, storm shield 145
Sword brethren terminator command 4 seargent 2 x A. cannon tank hunters 212

Troops
Crusader Squad M. launcher Rhino 5 140
Crusader Squad M. launcher Rhino 5 140
Crusader Squad M. launcher Rhino 5 140

Elites
Terminators F.Assault,TH/SS x 5 5 215
Land Raider Crusader, smoke 1 268
Terminators 2 x Cyclone, Tank Hunters 5 265
Terminators 2 x Cyclone, Tank Hunters 5 265

Fast Attack
Typhoon 1 70

Total 2000 even

Your list is illegal. You have to buy tank hunters for the Marshal too, since he's part of the command squad. That puts you at 3 pts. over.

The mighty walrus is correct. I didn't catch that. You do need to buy him the upgrade.

Hmm wasent aware he COULD buy it, dident check it enough. Well drop smoke on the land raider and add that and its done.

Yeah, it helps against vehicles in assault at least. The Marshal can punch rear av10 that way.

With all of the anti-mech out there, is a Land Raider really worth it? Would it be better to keep everything on foot? For the price of that land Raider, you could make the terminator assault squad bigger, and attach a chaplain with cenobytes. Just an idea. Or perhaps another shooty terminator squad? just 1 Land Raider worries me.

Its mostly because I have the model. The only way to get another terminator squad would be to add another marshal or chaplan too. But yes I could add 4 terminators with TH/SS and then use the leftover points for razorback upgrades and mabye another Typhoon.

I tried the 10 termie squad with chappy and champ plus cynobytes. It was pretty amazing! Against a fast, shooty army like DE, they would get pwnd pretty hard, but against a static shooty army or assault army, they are a juggernaut.

One more thought, since there is so much anti tank out there one lone armor on the field isnt gong to last long. For the same points as a LRC I could switch out for an assault squad, since I dident max out on typhoons anyway.

Emperor's Champion accept any challenge 1 140
Marshal terminator armor, lightning claw, storm shield, tank hunter 148
Sword brethren terminator command 4 seargent 2 x A. cannon tank hunters 212

Troops
Crusader Squad M. launcher Rhino 5 140
Crusader Squad M. launcher Rhino 5 140
Crusader Squad M. launcher Rhino 5 140

Elites
Terminators F.Assault,TH/SS x 5 5 215
Terminators 2 x Cyclone, Tank Hunters 5 265
Terminators 2 x Cyclone, Tank Hunters 5 265

Fast Attack
Assault squad p. fist, storm shields x 10 265
Typhoon 1 70

Total 2000

I may build them and try em out anyway, since I like the concept of more bodies on the map. Also with storm shields they will make excelent screens for the T. hammer termies, although this may mean they will never reach battle. But I could jump em 12 turn one, run, then deep strike the T. hammer termies in behind em for a screened turn. May work out after all.

Ive always thought the knight look for templars was neat, which is one of the reasons I was drawn to the army. I am going to make a tabard for everyone in my army, termies included. This is what I have done so far. Had a named lying around unused so puttied over all the fist stuff, trimmed off the hammer, made a plasticard symbol for the templars, a scratch built claw so he stands out over smaller claws, and a squad of guys with knight helmets and tabards.

That claw looks badass