Hawaiian Lawmaker Introduces Bill to Ban Sales of Toy Guns to Children

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**Frazzled**

All right Hawaii, time to turn in your man card and put on a mumu.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/7717516/hawaiian_lawmaker_introduces_bill_to.html?cat=25

Hawaiian Lawmaker Introduces Bill to Ban Sales of Toy Guns to Children
Glenn Church, Yahoo! Contributor Network
Feb 3, 2011 "Contribute content like this. Start Here." More: cam newton Obama john boehner macbook Brett Favre If Hawaiian State Rep. Scott Saiki gets his way, guns will be outlawed in Hawaii. Toy guns for kids, that is. Adults can still buy toy guns. Presumably, it is still safe to give them to children.

The bill has had its first reading and has been referred to the judiciary committee where, hopefully, it dies.

SECTION 1. Chapter 709, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by adding a new section to be appropriately designated and to read as follows:

"§709- Sale of toy guns to minors prohibited. (1) It shall be unlawful to sell, attempt to sell, or offer for sale a toy gun to a minor under eighteen years of age; provided that it shall be an affirmative defense to any prosecution that the:

(a) Purchaser falsely represented the purchaser's age by producing a driver's license bearing a photograph of the licensee, a state identification card, or similar card purporting to be a valid identification card indicating that the purchaser was eighteen years of age or older;

(b) Appearance of the purchaser was such that an ordinary prudent person would believe the purchaser to be eighteen years of age or older; and

(c) Sale was made in good faith relying upon the indicators of age in paragraphs (a) and (b).

(2) Any person who violates this section shall be subject to a fine of not more than $2,000, imprisonment of not more than ninety days, or both."

SECTION 2. This Act does not affect rights and duties that matured, penalties that were incurred, and proceedings that were begun before its effective date.

SECTION 3. New statutory material is underscored.

SECTION 4. This Act shall take effect upon its approval.

Seriously, does any state need a law requiring toy store clerks to card customers when buying a toy gun?

On top of that, there is the threat of a fine and 90 days in jail for anyone violating this act.

It seems that it is safe to still give a gun as a gift to a minor, but what is the necessity for society to prevent a twelve-year-old from buying a squirt gun, a rubber band gun or any other facsimile of a gun, assuming that it is a toy?

**Lord Scythican**

I betcha megatron is glad he changed into a tank now.

Still I bet this one doesn't pass. Although some dumb laws have made it into the books before...

What's with these recent slowed laws lately? First the farting one and now this?!

**Wolfun**

I wouldn't say this is as slowed as the farting one.
I think the logic behind it is "giving toy guns means they might go and find real ones by mistake etc etc".
I mean, I'm not condoning it... But it's not banning a normal bodily function, if you know what I mean. =P

**Lord Scythican**

Well I would say No to realistic looking guns. They had to put those orange caps in them to make them ok to sell for awhile now. But if Supersoakers and Nerf fall into this category then it is slowed.

**Monster Rain**

What they need is toy guns that make fart noises.

**Lord Scythican**

Monster Rain wrote:What they need is toy guns that make fart noises.

Or even better, one of these:

As for a gun that makes fart noises and not the smell, they do have one:

http://nerdapproved.com/bizarre-gadgets/disguster-gun-a-full-clip-of-burping-farting-and-puking/

**Battle Brother Lucifer**

What they need is toy guns that look so real that...

Wait thats a horrible idea

**SilverMK2**

Can they still buy fully automatic rocket chainsaw launchers without a waiting period?

**VoidAngel**

If they do that, I will have to use real guns to teach my kids how to kill bad guys. Nerf really is better at first. Makes for lower insurance premiums.

**FITZZ**

Perhaps it's just the era I grew up in,but as a child every boy (and some of the girls) I knew had at least one toy gun.
Playing soldier,cops and robbers and other such "gun games" was just part of being a kid.
I really don't get the fuss,all the toy guns that existed when I was a kid looked "real" and not one child I knew ever mistook a toy gun for a real gun...of course we were raised to know the difference and the dangers of a real firearm as opposed to the toys we played with.

**VoidAngel**

FITZZ wrote: all the toy guns that existed when I was a kid looked "real" and not one child I knew ever mistook a toy gun for a real gun...of course we were raised to know the difference and the dangers of a real firearm as opposed to the toys we played with.

And that's the difference. Liberal lawmakers almost universally prefer to bury their heads in the sand and try to pretend that things they don't like simply don't exist. It would never occur to one of them, or most 'liberal' parents to TEACH their kids about guns; not as a way of 'condoning' or 'glorifying' them, but as a way of giving a kid the knowledge he or she needs to avoid a danger. They have no problem teaching their kids about fire (which kills far more people per year than guns, toy or otherwise) - but guns? "No way! We don't allow guns in OUR house!" Yeah, and that's why when they go visit a cousin or friend who does have guns in the house, they go play with it and hurt someone - because no one ever taught them different. When you read about some kid shooting his friend by accident...that gun usually was the other kids - and THAT kid new better than to mess with it. You can't uninvent guns, and you can't childproof the world. You can, however, try to world-proof your child.

**MeanGreenStompa**

WTF...

I'll tell you what bloody toys need banning, those 'bratz' dolls and all their imitators that encourage children to dress and act like whores.

Also, might this law might end up affecting wargaming minis...

**Kilkrazy**

It would be a strange thing if it were harder for an American child to buy a toy gun than it is for a British adult to buy a real gun.

I suppose it depends on the definition of toy.

We never had any of these problems in the 60s and 70s. What has gone wrong?

**Lord Scythican**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:WTF...

I'll tell you what bloody toys need banning, those 'bratz' dolls and all their imitators that encourage children to dress and act like whores.

Also, might this law might end up affecting wargaming minis...

I agree with your about the whore dolls. I really wonder where this will go if it passes. I mean toy guns could refer to this:

What about legos? Would they need to be banned?

I will admit though...this girl doesn't need this toy. She looks like she is about to pop a cap in someone's ass:

**VoidAngel**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:WTF...

I'll tell you what bloody toys need banning, those 'bratz' dolls and all their imitators that encourage children to dress and act like whores.

Also, might this law might end up affecting wargaming minis...

Right on both counts!

**Frazzled**

I will admit though...this girl doesn't need this toy. She looks like she is about to pop a cap in someone's ass:

Timmy has pulled her hair for the last time...

**Kilkrazy**

Frazzled wrote:
I will admit though...this girl doesn't need this toy. She looks like she is about to pop a cap in someone's ass:

Timmy has pulled her hair for the last time...

I'll see your revolver and raise you a semi-automatic pistol.

**FITZZ**

VoidAngel wrote:
FITZZ wrote: all the toy guns that existed when I was a kid looked "real" and not one child I knew ever mistook a toy gun for a real gun...of course we were raised to know the difference and the dangers of a real firearm as opposed to the toys we played with.

And that's the difference. Liberal lawmakers almost universally prefer to bury their heads in the sand and try to pretend that things they don't like simply don't exist. It would never occur to one of them, or most 'liberal' parents to TEACH their kids about guns; not as a way of 'condoning' or 'glorifying' them, but as a way of giving a kid the knowledge he or she needs to avoid a danger. They have no problem teaching their kids about fire (which kills far more people per year than guns, toy or otherwise) - but guns? "No way! We don't allow guns in OUR house!" Yeah, and that's why when they go visit a cousin or friend who does have guns in the house, they go play with it and hurt someone - because no one ever taught them different. When you read about some kid shooting his friend by accident...that gun usually was the other kids - and THAT kid new better than to mess with it. You can invent guns, and you can't childproof the world. You can, however, try to world-proof your child.

Politics notwithstanding,I agree that far to many parents try to "bubble wrap" their children through banning various "offensive/dangerous" things,and I see this as simply ridiculous....what sort of people will the next few generations be...individuals afraid to walk outside with out wearing a helmet?
I also agree that education and parental responsibility is the key to dealing with many of these issues,I own firearms,my children fully understand how dangerous they can be and that they are not toys to be played with...ever.

**Frazzled**

Edit:
I'm ok with the colored tips. I'm even ok in making life sized toy guns clear or bright colors. But come on...really?

**VoidAngel**

Kilkrazy wrote:It would be a strange thing if it were harder for an American child to buy a toy gun than it is for a British adult to buy a real gun.

I suppose it depends on the definition of toy.

We never had any of these problems in the 60s and 70s. What has gone wrong?

Hippies, that's what. The whole. "Let's blame things and not people" philosophy. Personal responsibility became 'oppression' and 'conformity', 'judgement' became a dirty word, and 'self-esteem' became the Holy Grail to be elevated above actual achievement. Civics and Ethic classes were removed from schools as too preachy (nevermind prayer). Things "it was not the place of teachers" to provide. These were the safety nets of society, there not to replace the dutiful parent - but to prop up the inadequate one.

As a result, generations of the most disadvantaged children have received exposure to such ideals that underpin a harmonious society from NO ONE, while at the same time mechanisms were laid in place to practically ensure that there be an endless parade of such generations. Now they are disaffected, angry, uneducated, and amoral - and been told endlessly that it's all someone else's fault! Of course violence ensued, and persists. It was a natural consequence of well-meaning but idiotic approaches to societal equality and cohesion. The greater folly is that we keep clinging to them as if they're going to start working as intended just any decade now...

**btemple0**

Ah yes, the whole "guns kill people" quandry, IMHO it should fall upon the parent of a child to teach right from wrong when it reguards firearms, whether they are a toy or not. Then again I had a BB gun at 4 and a .22 at 6, and I was raised around the rules involving firearms, and I would believe some parents do not teach that, and it was very evident to me of that fact when I attended basic training, and I found my self looking down the barrell of an M16 because some

thought it would be funny.

In other words:
1) I don't like the law itself
2) Make sure to teach your children firearm safety
3) Keep ammo and firearms seperate
4) keep a trigger lock on your firearms

**Kanluwen**

What's listed as a toy gun under this law?

Because airsoft guns are considered "toys".

**VoidAngel**

btemple0 wrote:Ah yes, the whole "guns kill people" quandry, IMHO it should fall upon the parent of a child to teach right from wrong when it reguards firearms, whether they are a toy or not. Then again I had a BB gun at 4 and a .22 at 6, and I was raised around the rules involving firearms, and I would believe some parents do not teach that, and it was very evident to me of that fact when I attended basic training, and I found my self looking down the barrell of an M16 because some thought it would be funny.

In other words:
1) I don't like the law itself
2) Make sure to teach your children firearm safety
3) Keep ammo and firearms seperate
4) keep a trigger lock on your firearms

My intent is not to turn this into a self-defense rights debate. Most of what you say is correct, except for the last two things (and that fact that there's no quandary - it's the hand the wields, not the implement that kills.):

3) Makes it kinda useless if you need it in a hurry - and most people who own guns for self defense know that home invaders rarely send ahead to schedule...
4) See above. Keep a behavior lock on your kids, and or keep guns accessible to you - but not them.

**sebster**

I had a friend who's Mum banned guns in their house. He was about five when she realised he'd just use sticks like a pretend gun, and that there was no point fighting the inevitable, kids like to pretend to shoot people.

I can understand the idea of realistic guns being made to have some kind of marker to show they're not real - bright orange tips or bright colours. But even that's only needed for authentic looking weapons, and most toy guns are two piece of low quality stamped plastic stuck together, they're not convincing anyone of anything.

VoidAngel wrote:They have no problem teaching their kids about fire (which kills far more people per year than guns, toy or otherwise) - but guns?

There are around 40,000 deaths related to guns in the US each year, and about 4,000 to fire. Where do people get this nonsense?

**Ma55ter_fett**

Frazzled wrote:
I will admit though...this girl doesn't need this toy. She looks like she is about to pop a cap in someone's ass:

Timmy has pulled her hair for the last time...

I find lazy eyes quite creepy enough as it is...

**VoidAngel**

sebster wrote:

VoidAngel wrote:They have no problem teaching their kids about fire (which kills far more people per year than guns, toy or otherwise) - but guns?

There are around 40,000 deaths related to guns in the US each year, and about 4,000 to fire. Where do people get this nonsense?

Accidents. Due to accidents. Didn't say it that way, I admit, but that's what I meant. The discussion was of children accidentally injuring themselves or others with guns, vs. due to fire. Your figure includes crime, which is to say, deliberate and illegal use of firearms. Also, you should use statistics from law enforcement sources, not groups that are anti-self-defense rights. The FBI puts the statistic closer to 10,000 per year. By contrast, there were about 13,000 home fire-related injuries in a similar period (but fewer deaths).

**sebster**

VoidAngel wrote:Accidents. Due to accidents. Didn't say it that way, I admit, but that's what I meant.

Oh, accidental deaths... that's a reasonable claim then. Then you're looking at about 600 deaths a year from gun accidents, compared to 4,000 deaths from fire (and it seems reasonable to assume almost all are accidental and not arson).

The discussion was of children accidentally injuring themselves or others with guns, vs. due to fire. Your figure includes crime, which is to say, deliberate and illegal use of firearms. Also, you should use statistics from law enforcement sources, not groups that are anti-self-defense rights. The FBI puts the statistic closer to 10,000 per year. By contrast, there were about 13,000 home fire-related injuries in a similar period (but fewer deaths).

You just said deaths, so I went with deaths. I didn't use an anti-gun site, by the way, I just went with the figure I remembered, which was around 40,000. Checking now CDC puts this figure closer to 30,000 so I was off by a bit but still miles higher than your 10,000 figure. I suspect you're citing homicide, which is a bit over 10,000, and ignoring the 15,000 odd suicides each year.

Citing fire related injuries is a bit of a nonsense, though. By your own claim you're looking at deaths from fire, and that figure is around 4,000 per year. Trying to compare fire related injuries to one form of death by firearm is even more non-sensical.

I'd stick to focussing on the accidental part, if you ask me.

**Kilkrazy**

Kanluwen wrote:What's listed as a toy gun under this law?

Because airsoft guns are considered "toys".

In the UK, airsoft guns come into the category of "realistic imitation firearms" under the definitions of the relevant law.

**CT GAMER**

This kid is not amused:

**Melissia**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:I'll tell you what bloody toys need banning, those 'bratz' dolls and all their imitators that encourage children to dress and act like whores.

I concur...