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I've seen several threads recently about people talking about punching/kicking/shoryukening someone at their local game store, usually over purposefully broken miniatures (and almost always a hypothetical situation for them). There's been some "debate" (I use the term loosely) about what's legal, why you can get away with it, etc.

I'd like to lay out a few reasons why you should never assault someone, and only use physical violence as a last resort (especially in these situations).

1. You're almost certainly going to be vulnerable to legal trouble, both criminal and civil. Civil cases (where the other party tries to sue you) are just no fun, and NOT worth the hassle (and potential monetary loss). Criminal cases can really suck, and you could wind up with a permanent mark on your record. The police won't care so much about the damaged property as they will about the fact that you just assaulted someone. Why risk it?

2. You'll probably look like a douchebag. Unless it's self defense, using violence to solve a problem means that you've either got self-control problems or some growing up to do.

3. People who are really good at fighting don't always look the part. The guy you just punched? If he's already upset, and a really good fighter, you could be in for a world-class ass-whoopin'.

4. You could be banned from that game store. Is that worth a some broken models? (In my case, definitely not!)

5. You're MUCH less likely to ever be able to help the other guy see the error of his ways. The best resolution of this kind of situation is where the guy who breaks your models does all he can to make it up to you; if you deck him, chances are that he'll never make that effort.

So please please please don't assault anyone, and don't advocate it here. Thank you.

If someone purposely breaks my models, I'm going to intimidate them into replacing them. But, I'm a pretty scary guy when I want to be. Who needs to resort to violence when you can just make them THINK you're going to resort to it?

Then again, the only person who has broken my models has been me and my clumsiness...

If somebody accidentally breaks my stuff I'll give them grief for it, but it's a mistake and I'm not gonna hold a grudge. If somebody maliciously breaks my stuff, whether it's Warhammer models or not, I'm going to do my best to stop them.

Personally I wouldn't assault them , but I would force them to repay for the replacements.

Wolfun wrote:
Then again, the only person who has broken my models has been me and my clumsiness...

Oooh! Did you kick your own ass?

If someone accidentally damaged my property,I would more than likely be satisfied with compensation of some sort.
But if an individual willfully destroyed something of mine out of malice...then they damn well had better be able to fight.

I will stop the destruction of my property, using the appropriate escalation of force until my property is safe.

But what I would do should not be taken as legal advice regarding what you should do.

puma713 wrote:

Wolfun wrote:
Then again, the only person who has broken my models has been me and my clumsiness...

Oooh! Did you kick your own ass?

I always self-pwn myself.
So, yes. =P

I think you could just as easily turn this around and say "Don't want to get your head thumped? Don't stomp someone's minis!"

FITZZ wrote: If someone accidentally damaged my property,I would more than likely be satisfied with compensation of some sort.
But if an individual willfully destroyed something of mine out of malice...then they damn well had better be able to fight.

This pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject.

d-usa wrote:But what I would do should not be taken as legal advice regarding what you should do.

This is also key. I don't care what other people do, nor would I give advice like this to people I don't even know. I speak only for myself.

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Lorek is pretty much correct though, your actions do have consequences. I think that's the bottom line here.

Now if someone purposly breaks any of my mini's, we'll then they have bought that mini and will expect the cash or a replacement ASAP!
Luckily, this has yet to happen & hope it never will.

Lorek wrote:I've seen several threads recently about people talking about shoryukening someone.

Nice

Yeah, it's never worth fighting back, only in extreme self-defense. If someone did it on purpose, I would demand they pay for it, if they don't...they probably will get banned either way.

Great post, and if all else fails in motivating people to hear this, imho this has to suffice:

Lorek wrote:5. You're MUCH less likely to ever be able to help the other guy see the error of his ways. The best resolution of this kind of situation is where the guy who breaks your models does all he can to make it up to you; if you deck him, chances are that he'll never make that effort.

This stuff is expensive. If you don't blow a gasket, and take other measures (usually everyone around will be rushing to help if there is someone smashing another person's models, for instance, and violence on your part isn't needed to stop it quickly) he will be in the position where he has to pay for the stuff he just broke. I've even seen people post that the store paid for their stuff after immediately escorting the other person out.

In the end, whether you feel like tying the guy's tongue in a knot or not, violence isn't going to get you the best result... and it's going to be much better in the end to keep your cool, at least as much as is possible in such a drastic situation.

Someone breaks my models on purpose?

Let's just say I'll probably get creative with my hobby tools.

Feth! and what can be done if the supposed one are dropping the minis to your face? it didn't happened to myself, but i have been present in few cases...

I tell people I have a simple policy for people touching my stuff.

You break a model, I break one of your bones. There are 206 bones in the human body. I have more than that in models.

If I get the tone right, then they can't tell if I'm kidding or not. Mostly they think I'm kidding (those that don't just don't touch my stuff) - and I've never had to call their bluff yet.

I don't play in stores though. I prefer room to breathe (and air to breathe, not gamer funk).

I've seen a few fights in my life, I don't think I've ever seen one which has ended up in a civil court. But that's possibly just because I've always lived in the north of England and not the sue culture of the united states. I've never been in this situation so I don't know what I'll do. I have hit out at someone who grabbed my brothers throat once but he needed to be taught not to pick on people smaller than him (to be honest my brother had apparently slept with the guys girlfriend but meh, family comes before right and wrong). It's true to say the better man refrains from being physical but all to often in those situations I've seen the perpetrator get away with it.

Valkyrie wrote:Personally I wouldn't assault them , but I would force them to repay for the replacements.

what if they find out your realy weedy like in real life

If is an accident, I am usually cool with just an apology and I will move on (It is something that I can replace so no big deal)
this has happened only once.

If the destruction is on purpose, I am going to demand that my property be replaced or else we are going to have problems. Luckily this has not had to occur as where I game no one touches anyone elses minis or dice without permission first.

Also you do not fight in a store, you step outside (preferably a back alley lol) to have your "discussions".

If someone broke my models on purpose- my lovingly hand-painted, custom converted, insanely expensive little model- I would wreck their world. Right there in the middle of the store. I would curb stomp them into a box of Pokemon cards and then pile drive them into a discount shelf of old Pirates of the Crimson Coast ships.

Would you proceed to beat their head in with an Arkham Horror expansion?

The OP seems to have been lost on some of these posts...

If there was one close by, sure. I'd pretty much want to get as creative as possible. I am a gamer at heart so even when delivering a savage beating of pure nerd justice I'd like to include as much gaming material as possible.

OP is still relevant. I am sure my actions would fit in catagories 2. and 4. =)

No self-respecting gaming store is without Arkham Horror. Or at the very least Settlers of Catan. You could beat someone with that, no problem.

Anyway, I'm going to bow out of this before Lorek decides he doesn't think I'm funny.

Look after your models like Clint Eastwood looks after his mule. Then you won't go wrong.

Fortunately we dont have any douchebags at th FLGS that would even consider breaking someones stuff.
In fact the guys are pretty cordial about asking to pick up a model to look and being pretty gentle.
Yeah, on occasion an accident will happen but everyone is pretty cool about it (apologies...accepted...offer to fix/replace...usually declined...go out for dinner/beer and laugh over it).

Accidents are one thing an "attack" on my property is another thing.

One we laugh about the other requires swift restitution or escalation may happen.

FITZZ, MonsterRain, Darthbob, chromedog, NobleSeven, (etc.) you appear to be missing the point of this thread.

People like to joke about doing violence to a (usually hypothetical) person who breaks their toys. Some other folks talk seriously about doing so, either out of a lack of perspective, a misguided attempt to appear macho in front of fellow gamers, or perhaps a hormonal imbalance due to their being 15 years old.

This thread is not about people venting their misguided aggression or repressed territorial instincts. It's not a chance for people to look tough in front of your fellow nerds.

It's Lorek talking seriously for a minute and reminding all the impressionable kids on Dakka that violence over toy soldiers is absurd. It's always a dumb idea. As Asimov so well reminded us: "violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."

If you're an adult and you do it, something is wrong with you. If you're a kid and you do it, you're not a tough guy- you're hormonally imbalanced and you look like a dumb kid. None of the adults are impressed and when you look back on the incident later you're going to be embarassed; maybe worse, if someone got genuinely injured, and suffered real repercussions and/or you wound up subject to prosecution yourself.

Mannahnin wrote:It's Lorek talking seriously for a minute and reminding all the impressionable kids on Dakka that violence over toy soldiers is absurd. It's always a dumb idea. As Asimov so well reminded us: "violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."

I'm sure that would be a great comfort to someone looking at a lovingly painted Valkyrie with a boot-print on its crushed hull. Either way, I doubt this is anything that the vast majority of gamers will have to deal with. I've only seen one model broken in anger, and that was by that particular model's owner.

So is the number of people who would physically attempt to stop someone from destroying their property (toy soldiers or otherwise) actually a minority? I can't imagine that it is... I'm pretty sure if you asked the average person on the street they'd probably not let someone break something of theirs if they could help it.

Stay in school, kids. Don't do drugs.

Monster Rain wrote:So is the number of people who would physically attempt to stop someone from destroying their property (toy soldiers or otherwise) actually a minority? I can't imagine that it is... I'm pretty sure if you asked the average person on the street they'd probably not let someone break something of theirs if they could help it.

There is a world of difference between stopping someone from manhandling your minis, and starting a fight over it.

'Taking it outside' stops being a reasonable response to anything around about the time that 'PG' stops being a limiting factor in what you can watch on television.

Beating on someone with behavioural issues might make you feel better if you have yet to grow out of your primary school uniform, but it doesn't actually do anything constructive about their problems. And it doesn't make you look like the bigger man. It just makes you look like someone who is so wound up about their toy soldiers that they would beat on someone with behavioural issues rather than try to find a grown-up way of dealing with the situation.

insaniak wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:So is the number of people who would physically attempt to stop someone from destroying their property (toy soldiers or otherwise) actually a minority? I can't imagine that it is... I'm pretty sure if you asked the average person on the street they'd probably not let someone break something of theirs if they could help it.

There is a world of difference between stopping someone from manhandling your minis, and starting a fight over it.

Are we going to argue the semantics as to whether or not "physically preventing someone from destroying your property" is a "fight?"

insaniak wrote:'Taking it outside' stops being a reasonable response to anything around about the time that 'PG' stops being a limiting factor in what you can watch on television.

I don't think anyone suggested it.

insaniak wrote:Beating on someone with behavioural issues might make you feel better if you have yet to grow out of your primary school uniform, but it doesn't actually do anything constructive about their problems. And it doesn't make you look like the bigger man. It just makes you look like someone who is so wound up about their toy soldiers that they would beat on someone with behavioural issues rather than try to find a grown-up way of dealing with the situation.

So now the person who is having their theoretical property damaged is now a macho brute beating up on someone who theoretically has behavioral issues. Maybe they're homeless, too? Lost their job in the Enron collapse and caught their wife banging their brother. This imaginary model-breaker has had a pretty rough few years.

No one is saying it makes them the bigger man or not. Half of the people aren't serious and the other half are just saying they'd stop someone from breaking their stuff. It's you who's making it into a bigger deal than it is.

Eat your vegetables, kids.

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Can I just say that I'm not saying that I'd hunt someone down in the dead of night with a sack of hot rivets? I'm saying if I was in an argument or similar with someone and they tried to smash my models, I'd stop them.