Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

A couple of thoughts:

1) I am getting really annoyed at people trying to make this a case of people breaking toy soldiers. Frankly, to me it comes across the same way as saying "Boohoo, somebody broke your toy....". If property is being destroyed it does not matter what it is. I will take my Forgeworld dreadnought as an example again. I paid over $100 for that thing. Somebody destroying it on purpose is no different that somebody taking a $100 bill from you and tearing it to shreads, somebody taking your digital camera and throwing it on the ground, or somebody taking your shoes and urinating on them. I care about my property and I will protect it. The amount of protection given to a Space Marine model worth $5 will be different from the amount of protection given to a model worth over $100.

2) I can't speak about anybody else, but I want to make sure that I clarify that I do not advocate "taking it outside", "beating somebody to a pulp", or any other form of vigilante justice. But if you would be jumping on an expensive model of mine then you will at the very least get a push if not a punch to the face. I will inflict the amount of violence needed to stop the destruction of my property. If the guy is no longer stomping on your model, but you are still punching him, then IMO you are going to far. In my mind there is a big difference between using violence to protect your property, and violence for the sake of revenge.

3) If the damaged model was expensive enough, I would not worry about the other guy calling the cops. I would more than likely call the cops myself to make sure a police report is filed about the damage done to my property so that I have the paperwork needed to follow up in small claims court if needed.

4) I am not a lawyer and I do not dispense legal advice. If people take actions based on the opinion of a bunch of folks on a message board, then they are on their own.

insaniak wrote:

Asuron wrote:During school I participated in a Woodworks class, had some douchebag always ruin my work by either chipping it or ruining it in some way
Doing nothing didn't stop him, it only reinforced to him that he could get away with it
Going to the teachers doesn't help because they can't really do anything

Well of course doing nothing didn't help. There are a world of options between 'doing nothing' and 'beating the crap out of him' though.

If I had punched him and beat the crap out of him, he would have stopped, no questions about it

Not really. If you had started a fight over it, he might have stopped. Or he might have simply felt even more vindicated about whatever grudge it is that he has against you, and escalated things even further.

Or he might have won, in which case all you get out of it is a beating and possibly some time off school for the both of you.

It doesn't matter whats being harmed, sometimes violence is the best answer to solve a problem

It's sometimes an answer. It's sometimes the easiest answer. But the best answer? Not by a long shot. The 'best' answer is one that doesn't involve anyone getting hurt, and that results in whatever is causing the situation to actually be resolved, rather than just trying to impress on someone that he should stop what he's doing because you can hit harder than he can.

Unfortunately I chose the wrong wording by saying "doing nothing"
What I meant to say is that other solutions, where I didn't make him physically stop, were not effective

As it stands, no he couldn't have won, I know this as a fact
Trust me when I say this, but this guy wouldnt have beat me in a fight and its hard to not make that sound like bravado, but it is the truth.
The only reason why he got away with this, is because I was raised in a very specific way as to not retaliate with violence or resort to it
Something that while I understand, respect and practice, still frustrates me to this day.
Take from that what you will

I would say yes, in this case violence would have stopped it
Please though, do list the solutions you think would have worked
I gurantee you all of them were tried, none succeeding

Although, this shouldnt become a thread about me and my childhood problems lol
I got over them, just like everyone else who went to highschool, its part of growing up


@Mannahnin
Its funny you should say that
He actually caused me to have a permanent scar on my hand, when he cut it with a sheet of metal
Which he never took responsibility for either

But I guess, yes at the end of the day it is a rationalizing of violence, which I never practice anyway
So its not really a issue for me
What I am advocating though, is if someone should break something that cost you money, time and love to complete, some form of action in my opinion, is entirely justified, if not expected

Is it the right thing to do? Probably not. But we are humans and not robots, if human beings acted rational and unemotional all the time, these problems wouldnt exist at all and we wouldnt be here discussing it

If they were that violent with it and depending on how many models they break I've got several options. 1) make sure the manager knows about it and get them banned from the store 2) let it go and hope it apologizes and repays me or 3) destruction of property is in fact a crime and if he breaks my whole army (smashes my soft case for instance) I wouldn't hesitate to pursue it in court. Sure, children and those with a childlike mindset might laugh at me for taking someone to court who broke my toys, but that isn't the legal issue at all. Besides, the judge might force him to see a psychologist about those anger issues.

Physical force isn't in my best interest both for the reasons stated and personal philosophy. I'm somewhat of a pacifist and won't fight unless I absolutely have to. Having said that, if I feel threatened enough to actually have to fight I travel armed. An inch tall figure isn't worth the mess.

i dont think anyone has ever gone into a store and just tried breaking peoples miniatures(not toys).after reading through most posts here it seems folks are getting enraged over a billion to one possible incident.in my local gw im sure the police would be called and the guys there would probably set me up with replacement mini's,again im not positive as i dont think its gonna happen.now this could be because im a seventeen stone bodybuilder who isnt going to let a dodgy looking idiot anywhere near my lovingly crafted mini's(again NOT TOYS).now i know if an idiot came in and started bothering the lads(and ladies) in the store most of us would be telling them to gtfo.as for the violence posted in earlier posts you dont need to go chuck lidell on some one you just give them the impression your gonna eat their first born child and trust me they'd back off.i don't want to come acroos as big headed here and i hope i haven't made my self sound like a prick.

Best way to stop them. Look them in the eyes and say

"If you touch anything else - ANYTHING - I will kill myself. And when my tainted spirit finds it's destination. I will topple the master of that dark place. From my black throne, I will lash together a machine of bone and blood, fueled by my hatred for you this fear engine will bore a hole between this world and that one.
When it begins, you will hear the sound of children screaming. As though from a great distance. A smoking orb of nothing will grow above your bed, and from it will emerge a thousand starving crows. As i slip through the widening maw in my new form, you will catch only a glimpse of my radiance before you are incinerated. Then as tears of bubbling pitch steam down my face, my dark work will begin.
I will open one of my six mouths, and I will sing the song that ends the Earth"

Yeah that usually makes them stop

My question to OP would be...where do you draw the line? Can someone purposely damage your car without retribution? Your home?

Honestly someone who is the kind of little punk who attacks propert when they are mad at someone deserves a beating. A beating like the coward they are.

Have a problem with a person? Confront the person. Attacking a persons property is a chicken shizz move.

Lorek wrote:I've seen several threads recently about people talking about punching/kicking/shoryukening someone at their local game store, usually over purposefully broken miniatures (and almost always a hypothetical situation for them). There's been some "debate" (I use the term loosely) about what's legal, why you can get away with it, etc.

I'd like to lay out a few reasons why you should never assault someone, and only use physical violence as a last resort (especially in these situations).

1. You're almost certainly going to be vulnerable to legal trouble, both criminal and civil. Civil cases (where the other party tries to sue you) are just no fun, and NOT worth the hassle (and potential monetary loss). Criminal cases can really suck, and you could wind up with a permanent mark on your record. The police won't care so much about the damaged property as they will about the fact that you just assaulted someone. Why risk it?

2. You'll probably look like a douchebag. Unless it's self defense, using violence to solve a problem means that you've either got self-control problems or some growing up to do.

3. People who are really good at fighting don't always look the part. The guy you just punched? If he's already upset, and a really good fighter, you could be in for a world-class ass-whoopin'.

4. You could be banned from that game store. Is that worth a some broken models? (In my case, definitely not!)

5. You're MUCH less likely to ever be able to help the other guy see the error of his ways. The best resolution of this kind of situation is where the guy who breaks your models does all he can to make it up to you; if you deck him, chances are that he'll never make that effort.

So please please please don't assault anyone, and don't advocate it here. Thank you.

You forgot to mention the most important reason:

6. That guy might have a gun out in his car. Is a broken model worth a gun-fight?

Akaelus wrote:Best way to stop them. Look them in the eyes and say

"If you touch anything else - ANYTHING - I will kill myself. And when my tainted spirit finds it's destination. I will topple the master of that dark place. From my black throne, I will lash together a machine of bone and blood, fueled by my hatred for you this fear engine will bore a hole between this world and that one.
When it begins, you will hear the sound of children screaming. As though from a great distance. A smoking orb of nothing will grow above your bed, and from it will emerge a thousand starving crows. As i slip through the widening maw in my new form, you will catch only a glimpse of my radiance before you are incinerated. Then as tears of bubbling pitch steam down my face, my dark work will begin.
I will open one of my six mouths, and I will sing the song that ends the Earth"

Yeah that usually makes them stop

YOU SIR ARE MOST AWESOME!

d-usa wrote:A couple of thoughts:

1) I am getting really annoyed at people trying to make this a case of people breaking toy soldiers. Frankly, to me it comes across the same way as saying "Boohoo, somebody broke your toy....". If property is being destroyed it does not matter what it is. I will take my Forgeworld dreadnought as an example again. I paid over $100 for that thing. Somebody destroying it on purpose is no different that somebody taking a $100 bill from you and tearing it to shreads, somebody taking your digital camera and throwing it on the ground, or somebody taking your shoes and urinating on them. I care about my property and I will protect it. The amount of protection given to a Space Marine model worth $5 will be different from the amount of protection given to a model worth over $100.

Please remember, in the USA at least, the law allows you to use an appropriate amount of force to protect your property. The law provides no allowance for the use of force for taking revenge after damage to your property. If the damage is already done, any violence you commit is retaliation and not protection, and any sympathy you might have had from law enforcement is gone. If the case were to go civil, the other guy would have to pay for your model, and you'd have to pay for his medical bills. Who do you think would end up paying more money?

To Asuron- I think your situation is an entirely different case, as Mannahnin said, bullying in school or another location where you cannot leave or get away from it on an ongoing basis is something that has to be dealt with. I think you were the bigger man (kid?) for not resorting to violence. However, your situation has made me think about what to do in that case, and honestly I don't know.

I just wanted to point out that, I think it's very different than what we're talking about here. Imho, resorting to violence wouldn't be the way to solve it at all, but I view what you're talking about as a much more serious thing. People have resorted to suicide to get away from bullying; it's a big problem in schools (and I saw it first hand as I was a teacher last year) and needs to be seriously considered for what it is.

It's definitely not on the same level as someone breaking models, which is a one-off incident of violence that can much more easily be handled. I would say the case of bullying is much more serious, and would need to be considered very carefully and strong (non-violent) action taken. By whom, I am not sure, as it seems you tried many things, but this is a large problem in schools and needs a solution. In many cases, violence is not even a possible answer, due to the bullied person being unable to stop the other by violent means. So it is up to the school, parents, or peers to intervene, which all to often does not happen, with sometimes very serious repercussions.

Just wanted to address that and not let it get lost in what we were talking about in a more one-off incident above, which is far from the consistent bullying you were facing, and had to decide how to deal with, unfortunately it seems without much help from others...

Saldiven wrote:

d-usa wrote:A couple of thoughts:

1) I am getting really annoyed at people trying to make this a case of people breaking toy soldiers. Frankly, to me it comes across the same way as saying "Boohoo, somebody broke your toy....". If property is being destroyed it does not matter what it is. I will take my Forgeworld dreadnought as an example again. I paid over $100 for that thing. Somebody destroying it on purpose is no different that somebody taking a $100 bill from you and tearing it to shreads, somebody taking your digital camera and throwing it on the ground, or somebody taking your shoes and urinating on them. I care about my property and I will protect it. The amount of protection given to a Space Marine model worth $5 will be different from the amount of protection given to a model worth over $100.

Please remember, in the USA at least, the law allows you to use an appropriate amount of force to protect your property. The law provides no allowance for the use of force for taking revenge after damage to your property. If the damage is already done, any violence you commit is retaliation and not protection, and any sympathy you might have had from law enforcement is gone. If the case were to go civil, the other guy would have to pay for your model, and you'd have to pay for his medical bills. Who do you think would end up paying more money?

If you quote me on #1, and go on to tell me about "retaliation vs protection", you should have read my point #2:

d-usa wrote:2) I can't speak about anybody else, but I want to make sure that I clarify that I do not advocate "taking it outside", "beating somebody to a pulp", or any other form of vigilante justice. But if you would be jumping on an expensive model of mine then you will at the very least get a push if not a punch to the face. I will inflict the amount of violence needed to stop the destruction of my property. If the guy is no longer stomping on your model, but you are still punching him, then IMO you are going to far. In my mind there is a big difference between using violence to protect your property, and violence for the sake of revenge.

d-usa wrote:1) I am getting really annoyed at people trying to make this a case of people breaking toy soldiers.

Sorry you're annoyed, but they're still (albeit expensive) toy soldiers, and in perspective not worth assaulting a human being over. I guarantee that the police would feel the same. They would say the same about a $500 camera. Again, you can try to shield your stuff, or take it away from him, but doing so generally doesn't require any punching or kicking.

d-usa wrote: Somebody destroying it on purpose is no different that somebody taking a $100 bill from you and tearing it to shreads, somebody taking your digital camera and throwing it on the ground, or somebody taking your shoes and urinating on them. I care about my property and I will protect it.

Okay, but bear in mind that this thread was not started because people said they'd protect their models. It was started because people said they'd start fights, break bones, stomp on the person who stomped on their models, "take it outside", and a host of other dumb tough-guy things to say which might be fun to contemplate but would be a terrible idea in real life.

d-usa wrote: If the guy is no longer stomping on your model, but you are still punching him, then IMO you are going to far. In my mind there is a big difference between using violence to protect your property, and violence for the sake of revenge.

Agreed, with the caveat that I don't think any kind of punching or pushing is a smart idea. Again, what happens if you shove the guy and he falls on top of another gaming table full of other people's models? You've just destroyed their stuff.

d-usa wrote:3) If the damaged model was expensive enough, I would not worry about the other guy calling the cops. I would more than likely call the cops myself to make sure a police report is filed about the damage done to my property so that I have the paperwork needed to follow up in small claims court if needed.

Absolutely agreed about involving the cops. Except that if you have a broken Dreadnought and the other guy has a broken nose, I guarantee that you're getting arrested. And you've just badly hurt your chances at getting restitution for the Dread in civil court.

Mad4Minis wrote:My question to OP would be...where do you draw the line? Can someone purposely damage your car without retribution? Your home?

Justice =/= retribution. The law doesn't permit you to seek revenge by personal violence for property damage. You can protect your stuff, but generally not by attacking people.

Mad4Minis wrote:Honestly someone who is the kind of little punk who attacks propert when they are mad at someone deserves a beating. A beating like the coward they are.

Yes, yes, we understand that you would like us to understand how tough and macho you are.

This is ridiculous! People have actually deliberately broken someone elses miniatures? I can't say I've ever heard of that ever happening before.

On the topic at hand; Violence never solves anything. You may look rough and tough when you're beating down someone who is just about as socially inept as you are but in the end you'll likely never be allowed back into the store you game in, you'll likely lose friends due to your attitude and anger, and you're also likely to be slapped with a fine or worse: Jail time. Over a Warhammer miniature. It's a plastic, maybe metal, model.

d-usa wrote:2) I can't speak about anybody else, but I want to make sure that I clarify that I do not advocate "taking it outside", "beating somebody to a pulp", or any other form of vigilante justice. But if you would be jumping on an expensive model of mine then you will at the very least get a push if not a punch to the face. I will inflict the amount of violence needed to stop the destruction of my property. If the guy is no longer stomping on your model, but you are still punching him, then IMO you are going to far. In my mind there is a big difference between using violence to protect your property, and violence for the sake of revenge.

I think what Saldiven was trying to point out: It doesn't matter if there is a difference in your mind or not, there is a difference in they eyes of the law. Using reasonable force to prevent destruction of property is acceptable, using force in retaliation is called assault.
Even then... I've never heard of anyone deliberately breaking someone else's models. I'm sure a police report would be the best way to deal with the situation if you can't quickly snatch your models back.
I recently accidentally broke another club member's models - he was pretty cool about it however, and I compensated him for it anyway. Being amicable about it was a lot easier than getting in a fight - always go for this route if you can

Asuron wrote:Unfortunately I chose the wrong wording by saying "doing nothing"
What I meant to say is that other solutions, where I didn't make him physically stop, were not effective

I'm sorry to hear that. As I said before, and as RiTides said, bullying in school or similar venues is a really difficult issue. I sympathize for the position you were in. Please bear in mind, however, that it's not the same thing as what this thread's about.

Asuron wrote:As it stands, no he couldn't have won, I know this as a fact
Trust me when I say this, but this guy wouldnt have beat me in a fight and its hard to not make that sound like bravado, but it is the truth.

If you know anything about fights, you know that they are unpredictable. We're not talking about a boxing match or even MMA fight where there are rules; and even those often have upsets. You may have convinced yourself that you would have won. You may be certain. You may be equally certain that neither of you would have lost any teeth, or eyesight, or broken bones, or taken any other serious damage. But you're lying to yourself if you say you "know this as a fact".

Asuron wrote:Is it the right thing to do? Probably not. But we are humans and not robots, if human beings acted rational and unemotional all the time, these problems wouldnt exist at all and we wouldnt be here discussing it.

I think this is a false dichotomy. Of course human beings are emotional, and not robots. But unlike most animals we can control our emotional reactions, as you demonstrated by not assaulting your bully.

We are rationalizing animals- we convince ourselves of things all the time, and the beliefs we hold shape our behavior. You believed violence was not the answer, and so you did not respond with violence. A person who convinces themselves (or is convinced by others' casual comments) that punching someone in the nose over a broken model is right and appropriate will be more likely to do so. And that's a problem, which Lorek tried to address with this thread.

silpheedpilot wrote:This is ridiculous! People have actually deliberately broken someone elses miniatures? I can't say I've ever heard of that ever happening before.

On the topic at hand; Violence never solves anything. You may look rough and tough when you're beating down someone who is just about as socially inept as you are but in the end you'll likely never be allowed back into the store you game in, you'll likely lose friends due to your attitude and anger, and you're also likely to be slapped with a fine or worse: Jail time. Over a Warhammer miniature. It's a plastic, maybe metal, model.

I've seen it happen when I was about eight and my brother was about six. I've never seen it happen in later life.

I think it is something that happens a great deal more on the Internet than IRL.

I'm a people person and pretty good at avoiding confrontation, so this hypothetical situation probably wouldn't ever happen to me.

But, saying for the sake of argument that it did.

1) If I could see that they were making a move to break something of mine, but hadn't yet, I would stop them. As with Shingouki, I'm pretty sure I'm a lot stronger than 99% of guys that frequent GW. I wouldn't 'assault' them. I wouldn't knock them out. But I would keep them the hell away from breaking something valuable of mine. Politely, but firmly.

2) If they had already broken a mini of mine - again, I wouldn't get violent, but I would certainly try to find some recompense. In that situation, being as quiet and dignified as possible in the face of the abuse would garner me more support I reckon.

I would say this though - though I feel that some of the anti-violence posters on this thread have their hearts in the right place, I have to say that some of the stuff you're saying makes you sound quite naive.

If you've not been in a situation where violence IS a valid, appropriate and sometimes necessary answer to your predicament, then you've lived quite a sheltered life. Consider yourself somewhat lucky in that respect.

This thread is just full of internet tough guys.

The amount of "He'll better be able to fight", "I am going to defend my property" and "He'd better be a good runner" is staggering.

Guys, nobody is impressed by your obvious pre-pubescent posturing.

I would phsyically restrain someone attempting to smash my models. Just as I would physically restrain someone attempting to smash my mobile phone, break into my home or anything else. If they attemt to then hurt me or someone else, I may take futher steps to stop...which means restraining them painfully, in my case.

If they'd already broken it, I'd ask for them to explain there actions and, if needed, give me some damned cash.

The thing that worries me about actually getting into a fight is that someone can get serious hurt. I saw some idiots fighting over something outside a club one night. Muppet A shoves Moron B, Muppet A shoves Moron B harder, Moron B falls back and snap! there went his collar bone. Muppet A is up on charges.

I love my models. They're my main hobby, and I take a lot of pride in some of them. My Ad Mech force is made out of entirely converted models. If someone smashed it, I would probably be hearthbroken. But at the end of the day, there is nothing there I can't repair or replace, given time.

If I shove some moron and he goes down again the corner of the table and cracks his skull, there's no way to fix that. Even a broken bone means you're suddenly a social lepper. 'You broke his ARM over some models?' You can answer, 'Well, he was trying to smash a coverted Bloodthrister with £200 of parts that took me a year to build and paint' if you want, but most people are just gonna stop at, 'You broke his over a model'. I suspect it'll win you no brownie points in a court room, either, since his lawyer is pretty much gonna play up the, 'He flew into a violent nerd rage becuase his toy was broken, what an immature loony' angle.

Mannahnin wrote:

d-usa wrote:1) I am getting really annoyed at people trying to make this a case of people breaking toy soldiers.

Sorry you're annoyed, but they're still (albeit expensive) toy soldiers, and in perspective not worth assaulting a human being over. I guarantee that the police would feel the same. They would say the same about a $500 camera. Again, you can try to shield your stuff, or take it away from him, but doing so generally doesn't require any punching or kicking.

If your police department acts based on the type of property, vs. the value of property, then you have a sad police department.

Scenario 1: He tried to break your $100 camera? you were right to stop them.

Scenario 2: He tried to break your $100 model? Quit being a crybaby.

I have to spend the same amount of time at work to pay for that property, a $100 model is the same as a $100 bill. Our cops don't take lightly to destruction of personal property, regardless of the type.

And again, I'm not talking about revenge/retaliation/anger/wanting to feel macho/showing off for the one female gamer in the store. I am talking about taking steps to prevent and/or stop the destruction of the property. If the model is already stomped on the ground I will call the cops, and make note of that persons tag if they try to leave before the cops get there. But I have worked to hard to earn my money to stand by and watch somebody destroy what I own.

Once a player has stooped to the low of attacking my models, I am pretty sure that all future attempts to reason with them have already been lost.

shoryukening - What the hell is this?!

Steel Mage 99 wrote:This thread is just full of internet tough guys.

The amount of "He'll better be able to fight", "I am going to defend my property" and "He'd better be a good runner" is staggering.

Guys, nobody is impressed by your obvious prepubescent posturing.

Yes,because clearly anyone who states they would attempt to prevent their property from being destroyed is some sort of "internet tough guy" or "posturing prepubescent child".
The fact that many of the individuals involved in 40k are Military or ex-Military or perhaps don't fit into a pre-assumed "mold" doesn't factor in whatsoever....right?
You know what doesn't "impress" me...people who paint with broad brushes


EDIT:...

One could argue that those taking the "Intellectual High Road" of..."I would Never hit someone over destroying my property "..are people that are so accustomed to being victimized that the thought of standing up for themselves is completely alien to them.

GazzyG wrote:I'm a people person and pretty good at avoiding confrontation, so this hypothetical situation probably wouldn't ever happen to me.

But, saying for the sake of argument that it did.

1) If I could see that they were making a move to break something of mine, but hadn't yet, I would stop them. As with Shingouki, I'm pretty sure I'm a lot stronger than 99% of guys that frequent GW. I wouldn't 'assault' them. I wouldn't knock them out. But I would keep them the hell away from breaking something valuable of mine. Politely, but firmly.

2) If they had already broken a mini of mine - again, I wouldn't get violent, but I would certainly try to find some recompense. In that situation, being as quiet and dignified as possible in the face of the abuse would garner me more support I reckon.

All agreed.

GazzyG wrote:I would say this though - though I feel that some of the anti-violence posters on this thread have their hearts in the right place, I have to say that some of the stuff you're saying makes you sound quite naive.

If you've not been in a situation where violence IS a valid, appropriate and sometimes necessary answer to your predicament, then you've lived quite a sheltered life. Consider yourself somewhat lucky in that respect.

I encourage you to read the posts again and bear in mind the context specified. We're talking about fighting over models in a store. We're not talking about defending your home from a burglar or your country in a war.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

d-usa wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:

d-usa wrote:1) I am getting really annoyed at people trying to make this a case of people breaking toy soldiers.

Sorry you're annoyed, but they're still (albeit expensive) toy soldiers, and in perspective not worth assaulting a human being over. I guarantee that the police would feel the same. They would say the same about a $500 camera. Again, you can try to shield your stuff, or take it away from him, but doing so generally doesn't require any punching or kicking.

If your police department acts based on the type of property, vs. the value of property, then you have a sad police department.

Scenario 1: He tried to break your $100 camera? you were right to stop them.

Scenario 2: He tried to break your $100 model? Quit being a crybaby.

Did you actually read my post? I specifically stated, IN THE SECTION YOU QUOTED, that the police will react the same way if it's a model or a $500 camera. If he broke something of yours and you break his nose over it, you get arrested.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FITZZ wrote:

Steel Mage 99 wrote:This thread is just full of internet tough guys.

The amount of "He'll better be able to fight", "I am going to defend my property" and "He'd better be a good runner" is staggering.

Guys, nobody is impressed by your obvious prepubescent posturing.

Yes,because clearly anyone who states they would attempt to prevent their property from being destroyed is some sort of "internet tough guy" or "posturing prepubescent child".

Again, I'm not saying you are, but most of them are. Or are acting like it. Yes, Steelmage is painting with an unnecessarily broad brush, but you're also choosing to take offense over him lumping "I am going to defend my property" in with the other two stupid lines, without bearing in mind the context. Most of the guys in here talking about "defending their property" are talking about using an unnecessary amount of force.

FITZZ wrote:The fact that many of the individuals involved in 40k are Military or ex-Military or perhaps don't fit into a pre-assumed "mold" doesn't factor in whatsoever....right?

And the fact that many of us are military or ex-military also gives some of us sufficient perspective on real violence as to think it's silly to resort to over a model, or a camera for that matter.

FITZZ wrote:

One could argue that those taking the "Intellectual High Road" of..."I would Never hit someone over destroying my property "..are people that are so accustomed to being victimized that the thought of standing up for themselves is completely alien to them.

Nah, I for one am a big dude. I can hurt folks if I need to. Equally, though, I prefer to avoid trouble with the cops unless it's absoloutly nessecery. A broken model can be fixed. A damaged paint job can be re-painted. It's not like they're throwing cigarettes at my kid or trying to touch up my wife or something.

ghosty wrote:shoryukening - What the hell is this?!

It's when you do a triple air combo plus a juggle followed by a special move.

I could not conceive of someone intentionally standing there trying to destroy my minis. I don't think I've actualy seen such. But then again I don't think anyone hastried to destroy my stuff since elementary school.

Isthis really even an issue?

I think the issue, Frazz, was more the response that is battered about commonly on the internet, of "I'd wreck his face!" or the like.

Again, I've heard this comment made in real life about dice. As to the person saying anyone condoning a non-violent response (and we're talking not assaulting the person here... I'm assuming you're not just standing by enjoying it, either) please don't assume... none of us know each other here.

I taught in an inner city school last year and had a fight break out in my room. I'm not a big guy, and there's no way I could have broken these two guys up. Luckily, they stopped after about 30 seconds (not until half the room was turned upside down, though). And it was over something much smaller than a piece of broken property.

My latest experience was going to a movie, and seeing one threater with everyone standing outside and three police officers going in. Apparently there was a fight going on in the theater.

This thread isn't about times when violence is legitimately the only recourse. It's about attacking some dude who just broke your stuff. I think there's a lot of hyperbole going on that's not necessary...

As to the view that saying a violent response isn't OK is "the moral high crowd" or the like- I think that's missing the point. Most of us have probably seen or been part of violence in our lives, and saying it has no place in this hobby is, imho, refreshing. The fact that a lot of people who participate in this hobby are ex-military only reinforces this for me. This is our hobby of pretend warfare... bringing real violence into it just isn't the right thing to do in almost any circumstance.

Mannahnin wrote:

GazzyG wrote:I would say this though - though I feel that some of the anti-violence posters on this thread have their hearts in the right place, I have to say that some of the stuff you're saying makes you sound quite naive.

If you've not been in a situation where violence IS a valid, appropriate and sometimes necessary answer to your predicament, then you've lived quite a sheltered life. Consider yourself somewhat lucky in that respect.

I encourage you to read the posts again and bear in mind the context specified. We're talking about fighting over models in a store. We're not talking about defending your home from a burglar or your country in a war.

Some of the posts were quite broad. Implying that anyone who responds to anything with violence is weak willed or feeble minded. This is what I was answering with this comment.

Mannahnin wrote:Did you actually read my post? I specifically stated, IN THE SECTION YOU QUOTED, that the police will react the same way if it's a model or a $500 camera. If he broke something of yours and you break his nose over it, you get arrested.

Then you have crappy cops, and if you get charged you have a crappy DA. Part of this might also be just a cultural difference due to our location, although I have no idea where you are located.

My brother witnessed a robbery about 5-6 years back, some idiot on a bike snatched a purse. As he drove past him he grabbed him and threw him of the bike, broke his arm in the process, busted his face, broke the bike, all over a purse with just maybe $50, a phone, etc...

Did the cops arrest my brother for breaking someones arm in the process of protecting property? Nope. And after the cops refused to press charges against him, the guy on the bike decided to sue him. Judge told him that getting thrown of the bike was a risk he took when he decided to do what he did.

Around here people are willing to protect their property. Having somebody stop you when you decide to destroy it is a risk you take.

This is getting absurd... a stolen purse has a person's ID, credit card, etc in it. It also sounds like he was coming to the aid of someone else, not taking vengeance for something done to him.

GazzyG wrote:Some of the posts were quite broad. Implying that anyone who responds to anything with violence is weak willed or feeble minded. This is what I was answering with this comment.

I don't think this is what anyone is saying, but even if they are, it's certainly not what the OP is about. We weren't talking about whether or not it is ever right to resort to violence, in any extreme situation (most people would agree that it is, especially in the defense of another person... unless they're a total pacifist, which is admirable in other ways). It's a response to the common talk of what people would do if someone broke their warhammer models.

I don't know if people are missing the point on purpose, but hyperbole isn't helping the discussion here. Obviously, there are times where you would need to physically harm someone in an extreme situation... but imho, this not one of those situations.