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yes, yes i am. Its very aggrivating when you constantly play Leaf Blower Gaurd, or Blood Angels armoured company. There needs to be a line that can be drawn between a competition list, and a for fun list.

You enter into a verbal contract with your opponent prior to each game even taking place. If you want a more casual experience, make your opponent aware and field 'less competitive' units. If they rock out with a Leaf Blower (which isn't generally used as much nowadays anyway) just decline the game and find someone else to play.

L. Wrex

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:You enter into a verbal contract with your opponent prior to each game even taking place. If you want a more casual experience, make your opponent aware and field 'less competitive' units. If they rock out with a Leaf Blower (which isn't generally used as much nowadays anyway) just decline the game and find someone else to play.

L. Wrex

This is absolutely the truth. It's unfortunate that such a policy needs to be in place considering the rarity of good gaming experiences.

In order to avoid this kind of thing it's best to form a join an established group if you have the option. Not only will this relieve the stress of trying to find a game and having to play the 15 year old munchkin with dad's check book... a stereotype I know, but it happened to me just recently. These types only have fun if they win and don't really enjoy the game itself.

I know I know, but a majority of the people at the local shop play powergamer lists and that really makes me not wanna play.

I just wish some Xenos would wipe out the whole Space Wolfs chapter forever, and I would be happier.

Thankfully the club I game with mostly plays for fun, but I can understand your frustration.

I've certainly dealt with and have been guilty of power gaming. As mentioned, while setting up a game with an opponent let them know your intentions are casual game play.

Uhlan wrote:These types only have fun if they win and don't really enjoy the game itself.

Truth!

LordWynne wrote:I just wish some Xenos would wipe out the whole Space Wolfs chapter forever, and I would be happier.

I'm working on that very hard. For additional lols, see the "Space Wolves Suck" link in my signature.

OP: Most of the games I play are either in a tournament (where I expect people to bring the hardest lists that they can), or are preparation for a tournament, where I'm shaking off the rust, or trying something new.

It would behoove you to talk to your would-be opponents before every game to find out what the purpose of it is. If I'm grabbing a random game with someone because I'm looking for practice, I'll say, "I'm practicing for a 2k tournament, so I've got a tournament list here - can you assemble the most vicious list that you can?" If I'm just looking to roll some dice, I ask my opponent if they're a regular tournament player or not. Then I ask them to rate themselves on a scale of 1-10, a 10 being the best 40k tactician in the world. If they say 7-10, I present them with a face-beating list. If its less, I present them with Necrons.

Dictate your fun and how you spend your free time. If you feel like the people around you are playing lists too hard for you, either tell them that you're inexperienced and not a competitive gamer and ask them to bring a fluffy bunny army so that you don't just get wiped off the table, or step up your own army to be more competitive.

As Dash said, making a better list will go a long way, regardless of how crap you are at tactics. Genius isn't everything, you need some firm ground to stand on, in the form of a well written list.

Other than that, simply deny any longfangspam you see, I've done it at least once. I was running guard infantry, NOT power blobs, and was foot slogging, looking for a good, fluffy time. Obviously my list was very sub par, but this space wolf player pulls out 3 squads of 4 ML and some other crazy stuff. I simply said I wouldnt play it. So he changed his list and put in some termies and tactical marines and stuff. Turned out to be a very fun game.

ghargatuloth wrote:yes, yes i am. Its very aggrivating when you constantly play Leaf Blower Gaurd, or Blood Angels armoured company. There needs to be a line that can be drawn between a competition list, and a for fun list.

Ive never played against the comp lists, just incessantly see them posted on here. But that is enough to make me sick of seeing or hearing about them. Personally there is nothing fun about a boring list that wins all the time. Come up with your own army you unoriginal bastards.

Well it is the nature of the game.

When I agree to play a pick-up and we are doing standard missions I expect my opponent to be on their A game. I am, however; I don't run a power house list by any means. Unless you are completely un-prepaired for a drop list. Who knows maybe I am just one of those a-holes..

Then again i only agree to a pick-up games with people that I know play tournies and make that really clear.

With that said though, I love scenario games and will attempt to bring fluffy and competative lists to these.

Th3ee Legged Dog wrote:
Well it is the nature of the game.

Thats true, its the nature of everything based on competition. I used to play MTG and that game was the king of spam/tourney deck lists.

Many, many of us like facing hard lists as part of the fun of the game. Without being insulting and this is directed at no one in particular, I have yet to meet someone who makes the "your list is too competitive!" complaint who was actually decent at the game and capable of building solid lists. Of course they don't like competitive lists; it's a skill they do not have. So, they resort to complaining, attempting to villify those who do have that skill or develop "army composition" rules/scoring to support THEIR selfish ideal of what is right, as opposed to acknowledging they may be lacking in a specific skill or that their notion of what is or not acceptable in 40K is the ONLY way. Really, and this is my advice to everyone: find people who play similarly to you, who have the same objectives for the hobby, and stick to that group as much as you can. You'll be a lot happier and not really have to deal with this issue.

Skarboy wrote:Really, and this is my advice to everyone: find people who play similarly to you, who have the same objectives for the hobby, and stick to that group as much as you can. You'll be a lot happier and not really have to deal with this issue.

Quote this into eternity.

Playing 40k at home with people you know makes this sort of thing much easier than doing pick up games at your FLGS.

+1 to Skarboy.

I play for fun, but like everyone else I also want to win. I look at my lists and ask myself, "what do i want this particular army build to excel at?" and go from there. I try to make the most efficient list I can that is single-minded in purpose. What i come out with more often than not is considered a 'power gamer' list. A few examples from my collection of mini's that I have received flack for using:

Doom of Malan'tai in a spore pod - even after the FAQ 'nerf' he's still INSANELY good for his points. Therefore my friends send epithets in my direction if he hits the table, rather than dealing with him.

Long fangs with missiles - Jesus God, they are costed cheaply and have a high damage output. No way can you use them without being a douchenozzle.

Thunderwolf Cavalry - Allocated, of course. CHEESE! Never mind that they are tactically sound and a high damage output unit that cost 400+ points with an HQ.

Those are the three that come to mind quickly, but there are other reactions of lesser extent. It gets under my skin to be thought of in a derogatory fashion just because I play to the best of my ability.

I find a few different types of people. Those who make the list just before the game, aka the tweaker; Those who bring a premade list that for all accounts is probably just copy pasted from a web post, aka the power gamer, and Those who just bring some list with some units that are good and others that are fun/bad/ect.

I play against one, perhaps two of these power gamer lists people, the key is that I still can make fun lists and steam roll them. Armor guard? I have a fun 4+ invun save CSM deepstriking force with possessed as my main deepstrike locators.

Then again, some people only play to win, and god it shows some times. I swear this one guy running his jump pack C:SM list vs my foot tau list I brought one day was just fking trolling me.

I build somewhat fluffy lists because i think its more fun, but when it goes up against a super power gamer list thingy majig, I simply cannot win.

I play Orks (not wound-allocation shenanigan biker Nobz version ) and Necrons.

What do you think

I like my armies fluffy, and will often take suboptimal but hilarious units to support that, like Shokk Attack Gunz or Stormboyz.

Ascalam wrote:I play Orks (not wound-allocation shenanigan biker Nobz version ) and Necrons.

What do you think

I like my armies fluffy, and will often take suboptimal but hilarious units to support that, like Shokk Attack Gunz or Stormboyz.

Do you use a KFF big mek, and Kans with Deff Dread list?? This is the list I face most, and it seems that when i tailor a list to it (read: bring more AT weapons) the things i brought specifically to deal with the troublesome spots roll horribly!


To the OP: as its been said before, find a group of closer friends who play, and play in home, or if that group is enough, get a campaign going. I've found that in campaign type settings, people have to think more than just the next game ahead, and will try and hold back "hard" lists for more important missions.

Sometimes, but rarely.

My Kanz are usually packing Skorchas, and hunting Eldar

I like to run 6 - 9 trukks full of big choppa nobz and shoota or slugga boyz. If i'm up against mech or powerbuilds i'll take a KFF mek and/or a few powerklaws to give me some hope of victory, but kanwall with duel kff isn't really my bag.

I often will bring a dredd if i have a mek (as it woud be a waste not to) but i have a fondness for wierdboy or warboss-led lists.

If i run 2 meks i generally run 2 SAG, because something hilarious is almost guaranteed each match, and they are effective about half the time

I've even been know to use Flashgitz (gasp...), sometimes even three units of them


If i know i'm going into a powerbuild contest i'll upgun a little on antitank, and probably will take a KFF, but i play to have fun, not to rub peoples faces in my codex. Orks aren't too well set up for powerbuild curbstomping anyway

Win or lose i know my list will give me some laughs, and maybe even lighten up the powergamer opposite, which is worth a loss to me

*edited for dyslexia*

i like when people play what they like win or lose, land raiders! mech vets, fw armies, etc. play to your playstyle, not to your ego.

I get annoyed when I play power lists in all games I play, but I really enjoy the challenge, and I view that I am getting better because of playing against power lists.

I say bring on the power gamers! Those are the games that make me a smarter and better gamer. These kinda games teach ya tactics, and force you to use every model to it's full potental.

I don't get tired of em. I welcome the challenge. Makes the game much more intense. That's fun!

Well at my GW two types of people:
Dark Eldar or Blood Angels.
If you don't have them you are not (leet) which is proplem in big games with loads of people playing, Space Marines outnumber the (bad side) by heaps.

The best kind of powergamer is the one that makes ANY army good. not just "herp-dee-derp I picked space wolves because they are the best!"
Lots of respect to people running races that are harder to pull off like eldar and tau.
No respect to grey knights.. in advance.. just because

I think the key points have been said.

There is nothing wrong with a power list. Some people enjoy going to competitions/tournaments and bashing in the other guys heads or having their own list picked apart so they can get better.

There is also nothing wrong with wanting to play a "less competitive list". I hate using the term "fluffy list". Not every game needs to have LRs full of thunderhammer marines charging into a tricked out wolfguard mounted squad or nob bikers.

Just be clear with your opponent before hand on what you're looking for.

It's the same with any customizable game. MTG, Warhammer, Battletech, whatever. Back when I played Star Wars CCG, I played in a ton of tournaments with some very competitive players. Sometimes, I just got burnt out with that scene so we'd do a theme tournament like the Battle for Hoth or The Death Star versus Anti-Death Star (attack runs, for those familiar). I think I've mentioned it before, but blowing up the Death Star with Yoda and Obi Wan in a Y-wing is simultaneously the most awesome thing and most fethed up thing I've ever seen in a Star Wars CCG game.

Fun times.

I completely agree, but when you tell your opponent your would like to to have a fun game and they still smash your face into the ground its annoying, and it gets old very quickly.

Don't play that person again, I guess.

Not sure what to tell you, man.

Brother SRM wrote:

Skarboy wrote:Really, and this is my advice to everyone: find people who play similarly to you, who have the same objectives for the hobby, and stick to that group as much as you can. You'll be a lot happier and not really have to deal with this issue.

Quote this into eternity.

Playing 40k at home with people you know makes this sort of thing much easier than doing pick up games at your FLGS.

Absolutely. Games at my club were generally a pretty laid back affair, we had one guy who fancied himself as a bit of a pro and started sounding off about various 'tier' lists and the normal vernacular from BoLS and the like. I was one of the few there who recognised what he was going on about, but didn't add fuel to the fire. After one ruined Apocalypse game which turned nasty because his 'high tier' list got nailed to the wall, and a few games where he's set up supposed unstoppable army lists, the general reaction has been 'whatever mate' and he is generally the gaming equivalent of the last kid picked for the soccer game at lunch time. He has to play whoever is left over, which is usually some 12-year old with an unpainted orc or marine army painted up in about 8 different chapters. Although I feel sorry for the 12-year old..

I suppose this is the negative side of the culture that has developed over the internet of that style of play, but I note that this kind of instance is a rarity. I think it is a big mistake to think that this tiny elite/niche of the gaming public (because really, that's all it is despite what many think) has got some kind of over-powering influence in clubs and is changing the face of Warhammer. Most of these will already have their own culture, be it at the tooth-and-nail or laid back end of the scale, and the web site discussion will either be compatible with that or not.

If you chose to play sub-par units for a sense of "friendly" gaming then you are choosing to start the game with less emphasis on winning. If you actually do lose how is that your opponent's fault?

What you should do is play what you want, learn to use it effectively then stomp the paper-rock-scissors armies with it. Or learn to enjoy your specific type of game without worrying about winning.

Skarboy wrote:Many, many of us like facing hard lists as part of the fun of the game. Without being insulting and this is directed at no one in particular, I have yet to meet someone who makes the "your list is too competitive!" complaint who was actually decent at the game and capable of building solid lists. Of course they don't like competitive lists; it's a skill they do not have. So, they resort to complaining, attempting to villify those who do have that skill or develop "army composition" rules/scoring to support THEIR selfish ideal of what is right, as opposed to acknowledging they may be lacking in a specific skill or that their notion of what is or not acceptable in 40K is the ONLY way. Really, and this is my advice to everyone: find people who play similarly to you, who have the same objectives for the hobby, and stick to that group as much as you can. You'll be a lot happier and not really have to deal with this issue.

I believe that a killpoint for Skarboy,


Dash: I know you hate Space Wolves, but you will get over it someday. I swear that I'm watching Pinky and Brain........Today I will rule the world Pinky......but first I have to get rid of those fleas bitten puppies you call the Space Wolves.