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Went to my local gaming club and had a game with a new fella, Paul. Paul has been playing since November I think he said, mostly against his son who got him into the hobby. This will be his first game against someone else.

Orks "'Ead Manglers Ladz" - 1,500 points

HQ


1 x Warboss - power klaw, attack squig & cybork body

1 x Big Mek - kustom force field

Elite

5 x Lootas

5 x Lootas

Troops

5 x Nobz w/ Battlewagon - power klaw, 3 x big choppas, waaagh! Banner, bosspole,cybork bodies & Painboy - Wagon w/ big shoota & deffrolla

20 x Shoota Boyz - Nob w/ power klaw & boss pole

20 x Shoota Boyz - Nob w/ power klaw & boss pole

20 x Shoota Boyz - Nob w/ power klaw & boss pole

Heavy Support

1 x Battlewagon - big shoota & deffrolla

1 x Battlewagon - big shoota & deffrolla

1 x Battlewagon - big shoota & deffrolla

Total: 1,500



Tau - 1,500 points

HQ

Commander Shas El - shield drone, cyclonic ion blaster, fusion blaster, multi tracker, targetting array, missile pod & shield generator

2 x Battlesuits - fusion blaster, multitracker & missile pod

Elite

3 x Battlesuits - fusion blaster, multitracker & missile pod

3 x Stealth Suits - burst cannon, shield generator, marker drone

Troops

16 x Kroot

16 x Kroot

10 x Fire Warriors - markerlight

6 x Pathfinders w/ Devilfish - Devilfish w/ seeker missile

Fast Attack

Piranha - fusion blaster & other stuff

10 x Gun Drones

Heavy Support

Hammerhead

Game: Capture & Control + Pitched Battle

Deployment

Paul won the roll off and put his objective on the right flank near the top I put mine centre my side with a patch of trees in front.

Paul deployed his Gun Drones on the left flank, then in the centre the Commander with the rentinue, Pathfinders more over to the right was the Piranha, Fire Warriors and other suit team. he has kept the Hammerhead in reserve

I deployed a squad of Lootas in a bastion with another in the trees in front of my objective then the Wagons to the right of the objective.

Paul infiltrates his Kroot in the patches of trees on the left and right flank respectively on his half the board and the Stealth Team on the right flank by the Tyranid spore chimney.




* Tactical Notes

Paul has done my a favour by putting the Hammerhead in reserve so only things I am worried about is markerlights making my KFF none existant - I'll be going for Pathfinders and the Stealth Team, I'm not too worried about the Fire Warriors at the back. I'll then go for the Gun Drones because if I bail out the transport go for key targets I don't want to be shot up in Pauls shooting turn.

Turn 1

I try to seize the initiative to get some assaults quicker but fail.

Paul makes his move putting the shield drones into a barricade pit on the left flank, Commander and retinue into a centre barricade pit as the Devilfish and Piranha move down.

Shooting Stealth Team hit the Battlewagon closest to them with a markerlight, Battlesuit team on the right flank fire at the side armour and manage to make the Wagon go boom with two Orks down and the Nob wounded. The Lootas in the trees get shot by Kroot, three survive and run away.

In my turn I move the Bosses Wagon forward 12" and the other two Wagons behind as the Boyz blown out the Wagon in Pauls turn move towards the objective. Lootas manage to regroup but I don't move them the 3".

Shooting Lootas in the bastion make the Devilfish go boom while other Lootas fire at the Kroot but the Kroot pass all cover saves, the Pathfinders aren't too lucky and get nailed by mass shoota fire, failing morale and falling back with only two models left.





* Tactical Notes

Ok I'm bit miffed I lost a Battlewagon to poxy missile pods, half of the Battlesuit unit was half in the front and side arc so we rolled for it and they now fell into the side arc, god damn dice! At least those Boyz can hold my objective and be in terrain for cover. I did make a mistake, I left the Warbosses Battlewagon out to dry so I hope the KFF holds though if not they're close enough to assault somethimg.

Next turn I'll be going for the Gun Drones, Kroot and Commander taking out all the left flank and centre in a straight spearhead attack by the Warboss and Nobz.

Turn 2

Paul calls for reserves but the Hammerhead doesn't show up. In his moviing phase the Gun Drones come down the left flank some more while the Piranha comes down towards the centre with Battlesuit support as the Fire Warriors move to hold the Tau objective - Kroot on the right flank move through terrain as the Stealth Team moves towards the barricade.

Shooting only damage is Warbosses Battlewagon is popped which is down to my only stupid mistake, though it doesn't matter as you see..

In the assault phase Paul moves his Commander and Battlesuits towards the barricade (we classed it as fortifcation and if half the unit is within 2" of the barricade they get 3+ cover save) while the Stealth Suit does the same.

My turn and time to go balls to the wall. Warboss and Nobz move out of terrain 6" landing 2" away from the Commander and Battlesuits. The other two Battlewagons peel off and go towards the Gun Drones and Kroot on the left flank, Boyz bail out. Boyz on foot run partly into terrain holding my own objective.

Lootas in the bastion take some shots at the Piranha immobilising it and stunning it so no melta shots next turn, the other Loota unit on foot fires at the Stealth Team who make good use of the 3+ cover from the barricade. Boyz blast the Gun Drones leaving two left, they fail morale and run off.

In assault Boyz charge the Kroot take a few wounds but the Kroot die thanks to having no armour save. Warboss and Nobz smash the Battlesuits and Commander bu the shield drone takes all the invulnerable saves meaning it's toast but the Commander has a single wound left and so does one suit - combat remains on.





* Tactical Notes

Cracking second turn from the Orks seeing the Gun Drones toasted, Kroot toasted and the Commander tied up in assault which more than likely will die in the next assault turn. The Piranha also isn't moving anymore so I can auto hit it, great.

I need to start tackling some of the Stealth units as they're slowly coming to my objective, hopefully I can start chipping them down. Next turn I'll get the Boyz back into the Battlewagons and move across to Tau terrority.

Turn 3

Paul rolls for reserves with the Hammerhead coming on top right of the board other than that litlte movement from Paul as in assault who can't do a fat lot.

Shooting Hammerhead fires at a Battlewagon and shakes it, Stealth Team fire at the Boyz on my objective killing several adding Battlesuit support in too.

In assault the Stealth Team and Battlesuits use their jump packs to hide behind a bastion. The Warboss and Nobz however smash the Commander and Battlesuits, they consolidate towards the Piranha.

Orks turn the Boyz get back into the Wagons which move 12" towards the Tau while the Warboss and Nobz walk upto the Piranha.

Shooting Lootas on foot can draw LOS to the Battlesuits and open fire, though the Suits pass the armour saves. Other Lootas fire at the Kroot but they pass cover saves.

In assault Warboss auto pens the Piranha thanks to the S10 power klaw and makes it go boom!





* Tactical Notes

It's going well for the Orks seeing that Piranha go down. All I need to do is move the Nobz to the Fire Warriors and pound them while a Battlwagon can tank shock Battlesuits and/or Stealth Team while the other Battlewagon can roll up Boyz bail out and pummel the Kroot.

Turn 4

Paul moves his Stealth Team around the bastion towards my objective while the Battlesuits follow to support. That's about it.

Shooting he fires markerlights at the Nob squad and after a torrent of fire from Kroot, Battlesuits, Hammerhead and Fire Warriors only three Nobz remain inc the Big Mek and Painboy - they luckily pass morale. Stealth Team fire at the Boyz on my objective slimming them down, but they're still fearless.

In assault the Stealth Team move towards me while the Battlesuits move and hide behind a barricade.

In the Orks turn the remaining Nobz move up to the Fire Warriors along with a Battlewagon, the Boyz bail out shootas ready. The other Wagon moves up 12" towards the Kroot and the Boyz bail out.

Waaagh! is declared the Boyz out the Wagon by the Kroot run, everything else just shoots with the Lootas and Boyz on the objective wiping out the Stealth Team. Boyz by the Fire Warriors open fire leaving only 8 of them left, they pass morale though.

In assault Boyz charge and batter the Fire Warriors consolidating around the Tau objective while the other Boyz smash the Kroot, they consolidate towards the Tau objective making a greenskin wall of protection.





* Tactical Notes

Ok the game is pretty much in Ork hands with the Tau objective swamped and nothing getting close to the Ork objective. Just two Tau units left...

Turn 5

Paul moves and runs his Battlesuits towards the Ork objective while the Hammerhead tank shocks the Orks, who are fearless and just move out the way.

No shooting, though the Battlesuits use the jet packs moving through terrain to get closer, one Suit takes a wound thanks to dangerous terrain tests.

In my turn the Orks move out the way of the Battlewaon as it uses the dethrolla on the skimmer, though the Hammerhead dodges :( . The other Boyz move 6" towards the Tau objective and claim it.

We call it a day due to time at this point, next turn probably would have seen the Hammerhead attempt to move closer to the objective, which Orks would have swamped it and bashed it with the Wagon ramming it. Battlesuits would have made it to the Ork objective, not sure how it would have gone in assault as two Battlesuits had a single wound left and one had two and the Tau would have had to make the assault too for it to pay off.

Orks make the win claiming both objectives.





Summary

Not a bad game though I'm still not seeing the uberness that is Tau. I don't know a lot about Tau but if Paul would have used targetting array on his Battlesuits and Hammerhead he would have done better shooting as he was mostly hitting on a 4+ instead of 3+. At some points Paul could have done better as he moved the Kroot on the right flank and they couldn't shoot and moving the Fire Warriors with the marker light mean they couldn't shoot either. He would have been best putting his objective top of the tree terrain and having the Kroot and Fire Warriors camp in terrain and use markerlights and long shot shooting. Though, knowledge is power and I am sure Paul will learn his codex in time and the rules too, though TBH he was ok with the general rules it was just certain things in the Tau codex.

I made a mistake myself when leaving the Warboss and Nobz unprotected though I guess the Big Mek still had the KFF and even when they got blown out their Wagon they still made assault. Other mistake was I forgot to use the barricades for 3+ cover save which could have saved the Nobz a bit better! I think the turn 2 mass assault paid off seeing a dead unit of Kroot, Gun Drones and next assault phase the Commander leaving only five units left in the game, one was going to the Ork objective and another two of them got slaughtered in the assault phase.

Tau have a rough time against anything that can get into CC quickly; they really suck at CC and don't have the numbers to come back if they lose a bunch like IG :(

Well played though. knew it was game over just from reading the lists

You're right about c.c and that's exactly the way I planned it. Move up as quickly as I can and bail out, I perhaps maybe could have got first turn assault in with the Warboss and Nobz but it paid off they winning assault in the Tau turn which meant I could assault something in my own turn.

mercer wrote:You're right about c.c and that's exactly the way I planned it. Move up as quickly as I can and bail out, I perhaps maybe could have got first turn assault in with the Warboss and Nobz but it paid off they winning assault in the Tau turn which meant I could assault something in my own turn.

Yepper. Taus just too outdated and everything in their dex thats useful is way overpriced. Plus their troop selections suuuuuckkkkkkkkkkk

Yeah I noticed that the Battlesuits are BS3 so they really need targetting array putting the points up. I noticed that Devifish are over priced and Fire Warriors along with Kroot are meh, in combat Kroot just fall over thanks to no armour save.

I cannot comment about the Tau lists I've been playing against but I am pretty disappointed with them considering I read how awesome Tau are at shooting - even with markerlights and targetting array they don't have volumes of fire which makes them awesome.

mercer wrote:Yeah I noticed that the Battlesuits are BS3 so they really need targetting array putting the points up. I noticed that Devifish are over priced and Fire Warriors along with Kroot are meh, in combat Kroot just fall over thanks to no armour save.

I cannot comment about the Tau lists I've been playing against but I am pretty disappointed with them considering I read how awesome Tau are at shooting - even with markerlights and targetting array they don't have volumes of fire which makes them awesome.

Yeah to do well tau need LOTS of battlesuits all kitted out + bunch of broadsides + pathfinders and small units of firewarriors. Its really limiting and disappointing for tau players honestly; its just like necrons. Hopefully Tau get an update around next year; would love to see more of them on the table (we have 3 tau guys here but only 1 fields them)

Good batrep. Us Tau players always have a hard time, especially when we are just learning our codex.

mercer wrote:Yeah I noticed that the Battlesuits are BS3 so they really need targetting array putting the points up. I noticed that Devifish are over priced and Fire Warriors along with Kroot are meh, in combat Kroot just fall over thanks to no armour save.

I cannot comment about the Tau lists I've been playing against but I am pretty disappointed with them considering I read how awesome Tau are at shooting - even with markerlights and targetting array they don't have volumes of fire which makes them awesome.

Devilfish are overpriced, but they keep your weak fire warriors alive to claim objectives. Kroot and fire warriors are meh, but you need them.

Just a couple of comments on his list:

His commander is a little illegal, he is using about 5 hardpoints (Fusion Blaster/Missile Pod/Cyclic Ion Blaster/Shield Generator/Targeting Array), instead of the max 3. Pathfinders are FA .

Also, I would suggest to him not to take stealth suits or gun drones, both are weaker options in the Tau codex. (Though there is a lot more in his list that could be changed)

mercer wrote:
Not a bad game though I'm still not seeing the uberness that is Tau.

The problem is your friend is using a crap Tau list, while you are using a pretty efficient ork list.
If you were to make me use that Tau list against you, I pretty much doubt I can win even 1 out of 10 games.
You made a BatRep some time earlier on, and I came up with an example of a typical Tau list. If you are going to play your Tau friend often, I suggest you share with him how to build a PROPER Tau list.

I can pretty much assure you a properly built Tau list is the bane of Ork wagon rush. Piranhas walling up in front of your wagons and dodging on 3+ is a terrible headache.

mercer wrote:
I cannot comment about the Tau lists I've been playing against but I am pretty disappointed with them considering I read how awesome Tau are at shooting - even with markerlights and targetting array they don't have volumes of fire which makes them awesome.

Tau strength is not so much the volume of fire (unless you are within Rapid fire range...) but the flexibility of battlesuits and long range of Railguns, which allows them to use what they have very efficiently.

mercer wrote:
Not a bad game though I'm still not seeing the uberness that is Tau. I don't know a lot about Tau but if Paul would have used targetting array on his Battlesuits and Hammerhead he would have done better shooting as he was mostly hitting on a 4+ instead of 3+.

Hammerhead already has a Targeting array. Normal Battlesuits often don't have it, as then they can't shoot two weapons in turn. Remember, Crisis Suit only has 3 hardpoints and basic suits can't take Wargear.

mercer wrote:
At some points Paul could have done better as he moved the Kroot on the right flank and they couldn't shoot and moving the Fire Warriors with the marker light mean they couldn't shoot either. He would have been best putting his objective top of the tree terrain and having the Kroot and Fire Warriors camp in terrain and use markerlights and long shot shooting. Though, knowledge is power and I am sure Paul will learn his codex in time and the rules too, though TBH he was ok with the general rules it was just certain things in the Tau codex.

By far the hardest thing for Tau newbie is the general uselessness of Tau troops as they have very limited repertoire and break easily. Against assaulting armies, Tau always has to play "gambits" (to borrow a chess term), sacrifice cheap units to preserve those units which actually damage the opponent.

Why did he reserve the Hammerhead? Even if you had seized, you only had 10 Lootas which are fairly marginal threat for a Hammerhead.

Your friend's list is of course not optimal (and seems illegal in some places) but it's not too bad a start. In general, Tau should not expect Suits with Fusion blasters to handle anti-tank duties. By the time Battlewagons are within Melta range, they are too close.

Zid wrote:

mercer wrote:Yeah I noticed that the Battlesuits are BS3 so they really need targetting array putting the points up. I noticed that Devifish are over priced and Fire Warriors along with Kroot are meh, in combat Kroot just fall over thanks to no armour save.

I cannot comment about the Tau lists I've been playing against but I am pretty disappointed with them considering I read how awesome Tau are at shooting - even with markerlights and targetting array they don't have volumes of fire which makes them awesome.

Yeah to do well tau need LOTS of battlesuits all kitted out + bunch of broadsides + pathfinders and small units of firewarriors. Its really limiting and disappointing for tau players honestly; its just like necrons. Hopefully Tau get an update around next year; would love to see more of them on the table (we have 3 tau guys here but only 1 fields them)

That's what I'd take. The Shas'El (?) Commander and two suits as a bodyguard and fill the elite slots with as many suits as I can. Then min squads of Fire Warriors and then Pathfinders with markerlights. Finally couple of Piranha with fusion blasters and Broadsides. That's what I'd do looking at the codex, not sure if that's the best load out as I don't play Tau.

We've got about 5-6 Tau players!

The Bringer wrote:Good batrep. Us Tau players always have a hard time, especially when we are just learning our codex.

mercer wrote:Yeah I noticed that the Battlesuits are BS3 so they really need targetting array putting the points up. I noticed that Devifish are over priced and Fire Warriors along with Kroot are meh, in combat Kroot just fall over thanks to no armour save.

I cannot comment about the Tau lists I've been playing against but I am pretty disappointed with them considering I read how awesome Tau are at shooting - even with markerlights and targetting array they don't have volumes of fire which makes them awesome.

Devilfish are overpriced, but they keep your weak fire warriors alive to claim objectives. Kroot and fire warriors are meh, but you need them.

Just a couple of comments on his list:

His commander is a little illegal, he is using about 5 hardpoints (Fusion Blaster/Missile Pod/Cyclic Ion Blaster/Shield Generator/Targeting Array), instead of the max 3. Pathfinders are FA .

Also, I would suggest to him not to take stealth suits or gun drones, both are weaker options in the Tau codex. (Though there is a lot more in his list that could be changed)

I might be wrong on his Commander so I am not 100% sure. I know he definately had two ranged weapons and had a shield generator.

I thought the Stealth Suits were a bit disappointing, there gimmick is the night fighting rules but they don't pack much punch.

striderx wrote:

mercer wrote:
Not a bad game though I'm still not seeing the uberness that is Tau.

The problem is your friend is using a crap Tau list, while you are using a pretty efficient ork list.
If you were to make me use that Tau list against you, I pretty much doubt I can win even 1 out of 10 games.
You made a BatRep some time earlier on, and I came up with an example of a typical Tau list. If you are going to play your Tau friend often, I suggest you share with him how to build a PROPER Tau list.

I can pretty much assure you a properly built Tau list is the bane of Ork wagon rush. Piranhas walling up in front of your wagons and dodging on 3+ is a terrible headache.

This is a different Tau player. There's about 5-6 of them at the club I go to, they're bloody every where .

Piranha cannot dodge power klaws on a 3+ lol.

mercer wrote:
I thought the Stealth Suits were a bit disappointing, there gimmick is the night fighting rules but they don't pack much punch.

Stealths are very uneven performers...they sometimes perform well, but sometimes just die really easily without achieving anything for their rather huge points cost. IMO, it's the Infiltrate which is their main asset.

mercer wrote:
Piranha cannot dodge power klaws on a 3+ lol.

However, when your Nobs and Warbosses are klawing Piranhas (hitting at 6+...), they aren't clawing the Battlesuits or Tanks...as I said, gambit!

mercer wrote:Piranha cannot dodge power klaws on a 3+ lol.

Piranhas moving 12-24" dodges power klaws on 6+
And if you disembark to assault the piranhas, they would have already done their job - to delay you :-).

Tau is about delay, blocking, and shoot for as long as possible.

If I were to play against your wagon list, I ll be comfortable winning you 70% of the time, assuming luck isnt against me. That's against a wagon rush build. Other ork lists, the odds may be lower.

You just need to find someone in your community who plays Tau properly

Backfire wrote:Why did he reserve the Hammerhead? Even if you had seized, you only had 10 Lootas which are fairly marginal threat for a Hammerhead.

Yeah, BF, that's the question; WTF for? Pie plate goodness versus a field o' green.
*sigh*.
@mercer:
Do get this fellow, Paul, to read AdvancedTauTacitca.com so he can bring his game up faster. I had a looong learning curve with my first army, Dark Angles with their 3e codex, 4e rules. But it took a far shorter time to get my tau to winning, thanks to that website.

Good Batrep.

Backfire wrote:

mercer wrote:
I thought the Stealth Suits were a bit disappointing, there gimmick is the night fighting rules but they don't pack much punch.

Stealths are very uneven performers...they sometimes perform well, but sometimes just die really easily without achieving anything for their rather huge points cost. IMO, it's the Infiltrate which is their main asset.

mercer wrote:
Piranha cannot dodge power klaws on a 3+ lol.

However, when your Nobs and Warbosses are klawing Piranhas (hitting at 6+...), they aren't clawing the Battlesuits or Tanks...as I said, gambit!

Very true - but why would Orks be going for it in c.c anyway? I'd just open fire on it with Lootas etc.

striderx wrote:

mercer wrote:Piranha cannot dodge power klaws on a 3+ lol.

Piranhas moving 12-24" dodges power klaws on 6+
And if you disembark to assault the piranhas, they would have already done their job - to delay you :-).

Tau is about delay, blocking, and shoot for as long as possible.

If I were to play against your wagon list, I ll be comfortable winning you 70% of the time, assuming luck isnt against me. That's against a wagon rush build. Other ork lists, the odds may be lower.

You just need to find someone in your community who plays Tau properly

Answer = Lootas. Shoot it. Orks could still take it out in combat with weight of attacks but it's not soemthing I'd do unless it was immobilised, like it was in this game.

Brothererekose wrote:

Backfire wrote:Why did he reserve the Hammerhead? Even if you had seized, you only had 10 Lootas which are fairly marginal threat for a Hammerhead.

Yeah, BF, that's the question; WTF for? Pie plate goodness versus a field o' green.
*sigh*.
@mercer:
Do get this fellow, Paul, to read AdvancedTauTacitca.com so he can bring his game up faster. I had a looong learning curve with my first army, Dark Angles with their 3e codex, 4e rules. But it took a far shorter time to get my tau to winning, thanks to that website.

Good Batrep.

I will mention it to him, thanks.

mercer wrote:Very true - but why would Orks be going for it in c.c anyway? I'd just open fire on it with Lootas etc.

mercer wrote:Answer = Lootas. Shoot it. Orks could still take it out in combat with weight of attacks but it's not soemthing I'd do unless it was immobilised, like it was in this game.

You seem to be over rating lootas. I don't know if you mathhammered, but here's some help
2 squads of 5 lootas - 20 shots, 6.66 hits, 2.22 pens - which saves on 3+ if turbo-boosted (Piranhas turbo-boost in front of wagons to block movements). Your chances of taking down even ONE piranha a turn with the lootas are slim. And even if they did something, your wagons are already blocked (or forced to detour) for a turn - because movement happens before shooting.

So not really an answer actually. Piranhas are there to die.

You are having an easy time with Tau because it seems that your opponents are always standing in one horizontal line, ready for you to assault or roll over them. They didnt bubble wrap, they didnt bottle neck, they didnt traffic jam, they didnt set up kill zones. It is a COMPLETELY different story if you are playing with a veteran Tau player. You ll feel as if you are facing a completely different army.

Have you read Stelek's BatRep on his Ard Boys Semi last year? It was a battle between Tau and Ork Wagon Assault list. You should be able to learn some things there.

I know how Lootas work Striderx I use them on a regular basis so forget maths hammer.

Piranha only gets a 4+ as it's a fast skimmer so doesn't turbo boost it just moves flat out at 24" and gets a 4+ cover save. Which would mean your maths hammer is wrong.

I know Piranhas are there to die, if I took them I'd just use them for melta suicide zip down a flank hope the cover holds and then blow something up and probably die next turn.

As I've mentioned Paul is a new player being playing since December I think. Mike, the other Tau guy has been playing for years.

No, not really bothered about reading bat reps because it doesn't make no difference to me. All that would show me is Tau can be played better, which you've said, which I do agree with.

mercer wrote:I know how Lootas work Striderx I use them on a regular basis so forget maths hammer.

Piranha only gets a 4+ as it's a fast skimmer so doesn't turbo boost it just moves flat out at 24" and gets a 4+ cover save. Which would mean your maths hammer is wrong.

Ya it is a 4+ instead of 3+, but how would that make my mathhammer wrong? It's still 20 shots on avg, 6.66 hits, 2.22 pens.
You know how Lootas work, so can forget math hammer? Sorry, I can't see the logic here.

mercer wrote:I know Piranhas are there to die, if I took them I'd just use them for melta suicide zip down a flank hope the cover holds and then blow something up and probably die next turn.

That's probably how you ll use landspeeders most of the time, but not Piranhas. It goes to show how much misconception most people have about playing Tau.

mercer wrote:No, not really bothered about reading bat reps because it doesn't make no difference to me. All that would show me is Tau can be played better, which you've said, which I do agree with.

Fair enough. But generally reading good BatRep DOES make a difference to people who want to improve.

I thought your maths was working out on saves too which would have been different. Sorry if it wasn't.

From what you said you only use Piranhas to block stuff - just blow them up or go around them not that hard. Personally I don't think it's anything major unless the enemy unit cannot move around the skimmer any other way.

That's the thing though, I don't want to improve because I am not using Tau

mercer wrote:From what you said you only use Piranhas to block stuff - just blow them up or go around them not that hard. Personally I don't think it's anything major unless the enemy unit cannot move around the skimmer any other way.

A wall of 4 Piranhas can be up to 21-24 inches wide (3"X4 piranhas, 3 or 4"x3 spacing). I m not sure if you visualized that, but it indeed forces you to move around them and eats up alot of your movement. This normally means taking you an extra turn to reach the enemy.

mercer wrote:That's the thing though, I don't want to improve because I am not using Tau

That's probably taking a very narrow view of things. I think a little differently though. I read BatReps of other armies against the armies I use just so that I learn how to deal with them.
But well, maybe your time is worth more than mine

That's true and that means they're in squadrons so immobilised hit makes them destroyed, even easier to kill. Can't see them blocking stuff for long. Cheap movement which would work once or twice but not got the power to do it. Seems over rated to me, but I guess if that's how Tau have to roll...

My point is why would I read something I have no interest in? I have no interest in Tau at all so I wouldn't waste my time reading about them. Be like me reading about a Zombie Apocalypse just in case so I know how to deal with them . I just work on the fly and read codexes or ask opponents what stuff can do and the stats etc and go off that.

Just a general point, I've found there's more tactics on the internet than in real play if that makes sense. All this stuff on the internet is hardly see in the real world. But then again not all the people I play with spend as much time on the internet or at all..

mercer wrote:That's true and that means they're in squadrons so immobilised hit makes them destroyed, even easier to kill. Can't see them blocking stuff for long. Cheap movement which would work once or twice but not got the power to do it. Seems over rated to me, but I guess if that's how Tau have to roll...

If one more turn means one more round of 4-7 s10 railguns and 9 s7 autocannons (depending on pt level) shooting at your wagons to cripple your mobility, it definitely doesnt sound over rated to me. Maybe you have a different perspective of the game.

mercer wrote:Just a general point, I've found there's more tactics on the internet than in real play if that makes sense. All this stuff on the internet is hardly see in the real world. But then again not all the people I play with spend as much time on the internet or at all..

I don't know about your exposure, but that's how Tau is played, and I ve seen them played this way - via real life or internet BatRep. But again, I m not saying there is anything wrong playing with the more amateur guys. To each his own

Well those Piranhas (if taking 4) cost 280 points if taking fusion blasters and targetting array providing my maths is correct. Lets say you block several Battlewagons with the old movement trick and they can be 4" apart because of the funky squadron rules. The railguns need 50/50 to do anything to the front armour with a 50/50 save and S7 smart missiles I guess you mean will have to go for the side armour but would only be able to get two Battlewagons depending on how they'd line up.

I'd say it's a pretty limited trick costing some points just to act as a road block. Though like I said if that's what Tau have to do. Really this is the second time I've played Tau in my entire 40k career so I only know stat line of them and that's about it, I don't know much tips and tricks only stuff I've briefly read about or ideas I've had myself, which TBH which would be quite common stuff really. There's about 4-5 Tau players at the club so be interesting to see how they play differently. I cannot say how good they are.

I think with regarding to blocking it's a recent tactic and something which Tau must do and have to do in order to get those guns off. Only recently say the last 6-8 months has blocking become more important in certain situations of even thought of. Only time I really see blocking is in objective games and that's blocking the objective stopping enemy units getting within 3" say with a ring of models or something.

mercer wrote:Well those Piranhas (if taking 4) cost 280 points if taking fusion blasters and targetting array providing my maths is correct. Lets say you block several Battlewagons with the old movement trick and they can be 4" apart because of the funky squadron rules. The railguns need 50/50 to do anything to the front armour with a 50/50 save and S7 smart missiles I guess you mean will have to go for the side armour but would only be able to get two Battlewagons depending on how they'd line up.

280 points to in exchange for the mobility of your whole army - that's well worth it. Once your orks are all on foot a distance away, it's pretty much game over for you. And if the Piranhas don't die the first turn (statstically your 10 lootas can only kill about 1 Piranha the first turn), they'll threaten your wagons with melta too, more often than not on your rear armour. If you disembark to Klaw them, all the better.

mercer wrote:I think with regarding to blocking it's a recent tactic and something which Tau must do and have to do in order to get those guns off. Only recently say the last 6-8 months has blocking become more important in certain situations of even thought of. Only time I really see blocking is in objective games and that's blocking the objective stopping enemy units getting within 3" say with a ring of models or something.

Really? Using vehicles/skimmers to block traffic has been a very common tactic that is often seen in games/tournaments. I don't know, maybe it's your exposure, or your lack of interest in reading BatReps, but it definitely is a very common trick. It's not something brilliant that I came up with.

You won't block my whole army at all. You'll block part of it.

Why do I need to have interest in Tau bat reps for? I honestly don't care about Tau. If you think Tau can do better, then great, though the tactics you're saying are just theory you don't know my deployment you don't have know how far against board edge I am and if those Piranhas get taken out and you're discounting the KFF.

If Tau can be played better then that's great. But I'm not really interested in them at all.

mercer wrote:You won't block my whole army at all. You'll block part of it.

Really? A 21-24" wall don't block your whole army? Unless your 4 wagons can fly?

mercer wrote:Why do I need to have interest in Tau bat reps for? I honestly don't care about Tau. If you think Tau can do better, then great, though the tactics you're saying are just theory you don't know my deployment you don't have know how far against board edge I am

Then enlighten us what sort of deployment will Piranhas not be able to movement block. It will be interesting to know

mercer wrote:and if those Piranhas get taken out

Of course, if only your lootas are BS5. Otherwise, mathhammer tells me they destroy on average one piranha on the first turn.

mercer wrote:and you're discounting the KFF.

Which part of my argument did I discount KFF? You want to quote me?

The Tau Codex is not strong and the Tau list was not a strong one.

He had a bunch of units in there just because they come in the box.

Also, reserving the Hammerhead was a mistake.


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Still if he has only been playing since November the main thing is to have enjoyed the game.

Kilkrazy wrote:The Tau Codex is not strong

In the hands of an amateur, yes.

A wall of skimmers is a valid tactic. Make sure they're not in a squadron. When the wagon with the ram comes to town, fail one dodge roll and you might lose more than 1 vehicle.

I am not impressed by Tau. I had never stood a chance against them in 3d or 4th but in 5th, they have never even put a dent in any army I field.

striderx wrote:

mercer wrote:You won't block my whole army at all. You'll block part of it.

Really? A 21-24" wall don't block your whole army? Unless your 4 wagons can fly?

mercer wrote:Why do I need to have interest in Tau bat reps for? I honestly don't care about Tau. If you think Tau can do better, then great, though the tactics you're saying are just theory you don't know my deployment you don't have know how far against board edge I am

Then enlighten us what sort of deployment will Piranhas not be able to movement block. It will be interesting to know

mercer wrote:and if those Piranhas get taken out

Of course, if only your lootas are BS5. Otherwise, mathhammer tells me they destroy on average one piranha on the first turn.

mercer wrote:and you're discounting the KFF.

Which part of my argument did I discount KFF? You want to quote me?

Sigh...you won't block Lootas in ruins, you won't block Deffkopters, you won't block Grots who are objective holding. You will block Battlewagons only which can either use deffrollas and you won't dodge all of them and can use shoota fire on the side armour which will make some dead Piranha. Nothing more than a expensive 240 point over priced speed bump which is a one trick pony.

You keep saying how easy it is to blow up Wagons with railguns but forgetting about the KFF, it's 50% chance to glance and 50% chance to save so I wouldn't count your chickens yet of Battlewagons blowing up yet.

Can Tau be played better? No doubt, though this fella is new. Is blocking the best thing since sliced bread? No, it's over rated.

Most orks players would easily beat any tau list no matter the situation. I had a game where I sat on objectives and laughed as tau tried to kill the mass # of bodies on my side and I didn't even have to charge. Tau have to get close to the objectives to win and then they are in the ork kill zone. Tau is so outdated and should never beat orks period.